Nathan Lee Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 I hear endlessly about turning the hips to "get them out of the way" but it always seemed to me that, if anything, turning the hips PUTS them in the way compared to their position at address. Either the phrase doesn't represent literally what its PGA proponents are trying to get across, it's incorrect, or, perhaps most likely, I'm fouled up on this. Your thoughts... paulpattaya and cksurfdude 2 Quote M5 driver 815 fairways & hybrids RSi2 irons / wedges Cadence Ketsch putter, et al. , Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveP043 Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 6 hours ago, Nathan Lee said: I hear endlessly about turning the hips to "get them out of the way" but it always seemed to me that, if anything, turning the hips PUTS them in the way compared to their position at address. Either the phrase doesn't represent literally what its PGA proponents are trying to get across, it's incorrect, or, perhaps most likely, I'm fouled up on this. Your thoughts... If you turn correctly, your lead hip rotates upward and away form the target line during the forward swing, the trail hip rotates lower and closer to the target line. A common swing fault (sometimes called goat-humping) has the player's hips stalling, so he stands up straighter, which brings the entire pelvis closer to the target line. The first motion, hips rotating in place, is much preferable to the second, standing up and moving the entire pelvis closer to the ball. cksurfdude 1 Quote Irons Titleist T200, AMT Red stiff Rogue SubZero, GD YS-Six X T22 54 and 58 wedges 7-wood 5-wood B60 G5i putter Right handed Reston, Virginia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shapotomous Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 The use of the word "turning" might put the wrong image in your mind. I picture taking my stance with my butt against a wall and on the backswing the belt loop on my trail hip "pivots" back toward the wall and on the downswing the belt loop on my lead hip "pivots" back toward the wall. As I get older and less flexible its harder to keep my set up posture and spine angle through the swing and avoid the stand up error. The mental image of pivoting toward the wall helps keep me from the Rocky Horror pelvic thrust or as Dave called it....goat humping on my swing. Currently I have been doing drills to get the lead hip pivot ahead of my upper body motion on the downswing to more consistently 'clear' them. cksurfdude and DaveP043 2 Quote Modern Bag: G410 LST 10.5*, Hzrdus Smoke RDX 6.5 Flex; 915F 3w, Diamana S+ 70 S flex; Snake Eyes 18* 2h, 23* 4h & 27* 5h; JPX 900 Forged 6 - PW, PX LZ 6.0; Edison 2.0 49*, 53*, 57* KBS Tour 120 S; Heppler Fetch; Ball - MTB-X; Bag - Jones MyGolfSpy Edition! Shot Scope H4, MG600 Rangefinder Classic Bag: Driver - Persimmon; 3w - Speed Slot; 5w - Tour Block; 3 - pw - Dynapower; sw - Ram Tom Watson; putter - bullseye standard or flange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cksurfdude Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 10 hours ago, Nathan Lee said: I hear endlessly about turning the hips to "get them out of the way" but it always seemed to me that, if anything, turning the hips PUTS them in the way compared to their position at address. For me ... emphasized, noting that what works/doesn't work for one individual may be completely reversed in the next person ... I found out during the lessons I'm taking that I was actually turning too much, and too early, without enough of what the instructor calls "sway to target" (ie. move yourself target-ward laterally). The golf swing is a ridiculously complex movement and.. imho .. the root cause(s) of any swing flaws are best diagnosed by a good teaching pro. Shapotomous, Kenny B, fixyurdivot and 2 others 5 Quote WITB of an "aspiring" play-ah ... Driver...Callaway Paradym (Aldila Ascent PL Blue 40/A) 5W...Callaway Great Big Bertha (MCA Kai'Li Red 50/R) 7W...Tour Edge Exotics EXS (Tensei CK Blue 50/R) 4H...Callaway Epic Super Hybrid (Recoil ZT9 F3) 5H...Callaway Big Bertha ('19) (Recoil 460 ESX F3) 6i-GW...Sub 70 699 V2 (Recoil 660 F3) 54°, 60°...Cleveland CBX2, CBX 60 (Rotex graphite) Putter...EvnRoll ER5 or MLA Tour XDream (P2 Reflex grip on both) ...all in a Datrek bag on an MGI Zip Navigator electric cart. Ball often, not always, MaxFli Tour. Forum Member tester for the Paradym X driver (2023) Forum Member tester for the ExPutt Putting Simulator (2020) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyBobby_PR Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 Here’s a video that talks about the hips Shapotomous and fixyurdivot 2 Quote Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4 Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120 Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60 Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1 Ball: Titleist Prov1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildthing Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 (edited) If you look at Clay Ballards swing in slo-mo near the end of the video (09:27 -09:33) , it almost seems like he got his right elbow stuck by his torso because he's straightening his right arm and wrist just before impact. I don't think he does the 'Sam Snead Squat' move to any great degree in his own swing and could be right hip spinning in his early downswing (look at 09:43) blocking the movement of his elbow . Edited January 5, 2021 by Wildthing Shapotomous 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Lee Posted January 5, 2021 Author Share Posted January 5, 2021 I'm not sure I have a problem with my hip action, per se. I have found that focusing on the trail hip turning in the transition also seems to add (much needed) lateral movement. Turning with the lead hip doesn't help my weight shift at all. But, all your input was both interesting & helpful, so thanks. As to my original question about "clearing" the hips being a possible oxymoron, I'm just going to assume that a turned hip, since it must be closer to the target line than it was at address, isn't actually "out of the way" at all - nor was it ever out of the way, despite what the pundits will tell you. Cheers! fixyurdivot, Shapotomous and cksurfdude 3 Quote M5 driver 815 fairways & hybrids RSi2 irons / wedges Cadence Ketsch putter, et al. , Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveP043 Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 8 hours ago, Nathan Lee said: As to my original question about "clearing" the hips being a possible oxymoron, I'm just going to assume that a turned hip, since it must be closer to the target line than it was at address, isn't actually "out of the way" at all - nor was it ever out of the way, despite what the pundits will tell you. Its quite possible that the hip was never in the way in the first place, and that the expression "clearing the hips" is simply a helpful (albeit inaccurate) feel for turning properly. Shapotomous 1 Quote Irons Titleist T200, AMT Red stiff Rogue SubZero, GD YS-Six X T22 54 and 58 wedges 7-wood 5-wood B60 G5i putter Right handed Reston, Virginia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shapotomous Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 Maybe I was always mistaken, but I took the phrase "clearing the hips" as being they 'got out of the way' of the upper body.... hips "turning" slightly before the hands on the downswing and the hips moved back from from the set up line as opposed to getting closer to the ball as the "turn" happened. That is why I used the mental image I mentioned above, moving them toward the 'wall'. I noticed in the slo mo part of the above video he looks like he gets stuck at impact before jerking through the ball rather than being a fluid movement. 'stuck' and 'jerking' sound much harsher than what it looks like on video but I couldn't think of better words to describe it at the moment. Quote Modern Bag: G410 LST 10.5*, Hzrdus Smoke RDX 6.5 Flex; 915F 3w, Diamana S+ 70 S flex; Snake Eyes 18* 2h, 23* 4h & 27* 5h; JPX 900 Forged 6 - PW, PX LZ 6.0; Edison 2.0 49*, 53*, 57* KBS Tour 120 S; Heppler Fetch; Ball - MTB-X; Bag - Jones MyGolfSpy Edition! Shot Scope H4, MG600 Rangefinder Classic Bag: Driver - Persimmon; 3w - Speed Slot; 5w - Tour Block; 3 - pw - Dynapower; sw - Ram Tom Watson; putter - bullseye standard or flange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyBobby_PR Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 33 minutes ago, Shapotomous said: Maybe I was always mistaken, but I took the phrase "clearing the hips" as being they 'got out of the way' of the upper body.... hips "turning" slightly before the hands on the downswing and the hips moved back from from the set up line as opposed to getting closer to the ball as the "turn" happened. That is why I used the mental image I mentioned above, moving them toward the 'wall'. I noticed in the slo mo part of the above video he looks like he gets stuck at impact before jerking through the ball rather than being a fluid movement. 'stuck' and 'jerking' sound much harsher than what it looks like on video but I couldn't think of better words to describe it at the moment. The moving towards the wall is a good image. Many instructors use the wall or chair as a drill. The trail hip move back (into the wall) and then away from the ball. Greg Norman refers to it as right pocket back. In the transition as the pressure is moving into the lead side moves back (into and thru the wall) and also up as the lead leg extends, this helps create the space for the arms and clubs in the downswing) Vegan_Golfer_PNW and GolfSpy AFG 2 Quote Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4 Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120 Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60 Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1 Ball: Titleist Prov1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyBobby_PR Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 The guys at Athletic motion golf have multiple video on the hip movement. They have a bunch of videos using gears. I had this one saved. Hopefully this helps cksurfdude 1 Quote Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4 Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120 Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60 Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1 Ball: Titleist Prov1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fixyurdivot Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 10 hours ago, Nathan Lee said: I'm not sure I have a problem with my hip action, per se. I have found that focusing on the trail hip turning in the transition also seems to add (much needed) lateral movement. Turning with the lead hip doesn't help my weight shift at all. But, all your input was both interesting & helpful, so thanks. As to my original question about "clearing" the hips being a possible oxymoron, I'm just going to assume that a turned hip, since it must be closer to the target line than it was at address, isn't actually "out of the way" at all - nor was it ever out of the way, despite what the pundits will tell you. Cheers! Getting my left hip turned and cleared is key for me. Failure to do so usually results in balls to the right side of the target. Conversely, when I get hacked off at myself for not getting turned, I sometimes force the natural move and end up pulling a shot left. It all sounds so easy. We know in our minds what we're suppose to do. Golf is hard. cksurfdude and Kenny B 2 Quote G410 Plus, 9 Degree Driver G400 SFT, 16 Degree 3w G400 SFT, 19 Degree 5w ZX5 Irons 4-AW Glide 2.0 56 Degree SW (removed from double secret probation ) ER5v Putter (Evnroll ER5v Official Review) AI-One Milled Seven T CH (Currently Under Product Test) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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