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I have not done this, but as you have mentioned I really should be doing something like this. Just like you I almost always come up short. One of those things that I agree is hard to commit to. One of the thins I should being doing more of next year, unless there is a pin right at the back with trouble long.

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1 hour ago, fixyurdivot said:

I've been dropping back a club on most shots and finding that flips the odds in my favor.

I've been doing this.  Sort of.

All other things being equal, I try to hit the ball past the hole.  If I'm between clubs, I'll hit the longer one.  

There are two holes on my home course where being past the hole leaves you such a difficult putt that it's easier to chip from short of the green than putt down the hill.  I'll always try to leave the ball under the hole on those two.  And there's a couple more holes where long of the green is death.  I'll hit it past the hole if the pin if there's room, but I won't hit enough club to get myself over the green with a good shot.

My home course doesn't have any greens with significant trouble both short and long.  My dad's course has two such greens.  One is about 40 yards deep, so you can hit plenty of club, miss it a little bit, and still limp it onto the front of the green.  Their 18th green is really shallow, with water short and a drop-off behind that makes getting up and down impossible.  All you can do there is cowboy up and hit a golf shot, or hit it over the back and take your bogey.

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This is why I like GPS better than rangefinders.  Most of our greens are deep rather than shallow.  Like @HardcoreLooper and assuming I can hit the green, I pick a club that I know will get to the green and won't put me off the back.  Sometimes that 3 clubs, and I pick the one based on pin location.

I will say that my club distances are shorter now than they were in the warm weather, and I have dropped back a club for winter.  However, sometimes I find myself not adding in that compensation; makes me angry... I just forgot!!  Yesterday on #1, I had a back pin; 115y to the back, 103y to the middle, and 89y to the front.  Since our greens are usually firm and I have been getting more rollout, I opted for my 100y club... barely got on the green!!!  And it stuck with no rollout; I know I hit it solid.  Granted it was my first hole and it had rained the night before, but my 100y club goes 100 yards with a normal swing.

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9 hours ago, Kenny B said:

This is why I like GPS better than rangefinders.  Most of our greens are deep rather than shallow.  Like @HardcoreLooper and assuming I can hit the green, I pick a club that I know will get to the green and won't put me off the back.  Sometimes that 3 clubs, and I pick the one based on pin location.

I will say that my club distances are shorter now than they were in the warm weather, and I have dropped back a club for winter.  However, sometimes I find myself not adding in that compensation; makes me angry... I just forgot!!  Yesterday on #1, I had a back pin; 115y to the back, 103y to the middle, and 89y to the front.  Since our greens are usually firm and I have been getting more rollout, I opted for my 100y club... barely got on the green!!!  And it stuck with no rollout; I know I hit it solid.  Granted it was my first hole and it had rained the night before, but my 100y club goes 100 yards with a normal swing.

Another reason I'm finding the drop back a club beneficial is that so many holes are either up hill, have false fronts, or both. Prior to using this approach to club selection, the number of times I flew past the flag on approach shots, in particular mid irons, was REALLY infrequent.  I'd cuss myself for not making solid contact and then repeat the same offense on another hole.  It really never dawned on me that not hitting the sweet spot is part of my handicap.  

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I don't recall the actual numbers, but Arccos and Shotscope data both confirm that players using those systems are short far more than 50% of the time - as a result the standard recommendation is hit one more club unless the risk of penalties etc outweigh the benefit. My data is below - my improvement in "short pin/green" performance was addressed more recently in Arccos (bottom graphic).

 

The other thing for me was, at my course, long tends to be deadly for score on eight holes so my short approach tendencies were learned responses.  That said, my conservative approach was (and is) still holding me back as my iron distances have become more consistent.

 1750452537_ScreenShot2021-01-07at9_56_48AM.png.e6460ec68d52b9d74f671f7685cc0c5b.png641523577_ScreenShot2021-01-07at9_57_24AM.png.7813dee7f0f2f79c4a29e3a565fac16f.png

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Ive always referred to this as "clubbing up." It follows the exacty situation you guys are talking about. Just because you hit your 7i 160 when you pure it, doesnt mean youll pure it every time.

 

Do you think this concept is club head design specific to players distance and better players irons? With GI or SGI irons there is the possibility to get that one ball that travels 10-15 yards past whatever the specified distance for that club is. 

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12 minutes ago, RaginCajun said:

Do you think this concept is club head design specific to players distance and better players irons? With GI or SGI irons there is the possibility to get that one ball that travels 10-15 yards past whatever the specified distance for that club is. 

It seems unlikely to me.  I've heard about these magical "rockets" from SGI irons, but they may just be the rare occasion when the player accidentally hits one in the center of the club.  Even so, you should be selecting your clubs based on your real shot patterns.  If you hit one in 20 that goes over the green, but you hit 4 or 5 more per round ON the green instead of short, you're still ahead.

As a 5 handicap, I hit a fair number of shots pretty solidly.  Still, my general aim is to hit it 4 or 5 yards past the hole.  If I hit it perfect, I'm maybe 6 or 8 yards long, if I mishit it a little I might be 5 or 6 yards short.  I don't think of it as taking an extra club, that can lead me to make an abbreviated swing.  I am intentionally aiming to be long,  that mental approach helps me to make a solid confident swing.

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17 minutes ago, RaginCajun said:

Ive always referred to this as "clubbing up." It follows the exacty situation you guys are talking about. Just because you hit your 7i 160 when you pure it, doesnt mean youll pure it every time.

 

Do you think this concept is club head design specific to players distance and better players irons? With GI or SGI irons there is the possibility to get that one ball that travels 10-15 yards past whatever the specified distance for that club is. 

Yea, clubbing up is probably more appropriate.  I do think many of us fall into that "the 7i goes xxx when struck well" category.  And, when you consider the handicap bell-curve, a very large portion falls into the dosen't hit the sweet-spot consistently.  Interesting question about about club design/categories.  I've often wondered about average yardage spread between sweet-spot and mishits.  Do the GI and SGI designs tend to increase yardage spread?

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11 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

It seems unlikely to me.  I've heard about these magical "rockets" from SGI irons, but they may just be the rare occasion when the player accidentally hits one in the center of the club.  Even so, you should be selecting your clubs based on your real shot patterns.  If you hit one in 20 that goes over the green, but you hit 4 or 5 more per round ON the green instead of short, you're still ahead.

As a 5 handicap, I hit a fair number of shots pretty solidly.  Still, my general aim is to hit it 4 or 5 yards past the hole.  If I hit it perfect, I'm maybe 6 or 8 yards long, if I mishit it a little I might be 5 or 6 yards short.  I don't think of it as taking an extra club, that can lead me to make an abbreviated swing.  I am intentionally aiming to be long,  that mental approach helps me to make a solid confident swing.

This is my issue too:  When I consciously know I'm hitting the longer club, I tend to ease up and pull the shot.  Definitely need to work on that swing, but often I'll take the "normal" club and just hit it.  If I'm short I can usually get up and down, but left is often death.  Obviously if there's trouble short, you've got to go deep.

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8 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

It seems unlikely to me.  I've heard about these magical "rockets" from SGI irons, but they may just be the rare occasion when the player accidentally hits one in the center of the club.  Even so, you should be selecting your clubs based on your real shot patterns.  If you hit one in 20 that goes over the green, but you hit 4 or 5 more per round ON the green instead of short, you're still ahead.

As a 5 handicap, I hit a fair number of shots pretty solidly.  Still, my general aim is to hit it 4 or 5 yards past the hole.  If I hit it perfect, I'm maybe 6 or 8 yards long, if I mishit it a little I might be 5 or 6 yards short.  I don't think of it as taking an extra club, that can lead me to make an abbreviated swing.  I am intentionally aiming to be long,  that mental approach helps me to make a solid confident swing.

That is a good way to think of it mentally to try to stop the intentional slow down.

As for those long balls with SGI irons I can't remember the TXG video but they mentioned this and were saying that it is most likely due to basically a flier not caused by the rough. So if you move into an SGI irons that is boarder line spin profile for each iron on a well struck shot, then there is the possibility that through a strike and gear effect the spin drops and now you are in the danger zone of hitting a low spin flier. Another great reason to get fit and check spin. A ball change can give you the added spin you need to make the club playable. 

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25 minutes ago, MGoBlue100 said:

This is my issue too:  When I consciously know I'm hitting the longer club, I tend to ease up and pull the shot.  Definitely need to work on that swing, but often I'll take the "normal" club and just hit it.  If I'm short I can usually get up and down, but left is often death.  Obviously if there's trouble short, you've got to go deep.

I might have worded my thoughts a little better.  My intention is to somehow hit the ball a few yards past my real intended target.  My intended target, where I want the center of my normal dispersion pattern to be, is always informed by the pin placement and the various problems both on and near the green.  I can't honestly tell you how I differentiate between intended target and what I'm thinking as I swing, but I do make a specific decision to hit it a little longer than where I really want it to land.

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47 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

Yea, clubbing up is probably more appropriate.  I do think many of us fall into that "the 7i goes xxx when struck well" category.  And, when you consider the handicap bell-curve, a very large portion falls into the dosen't hit the sweet-spot consistently.  Interesting question about about club design/categories.  I've often wondered about average yardage spread between sweet-spot and mishits.  Do the GI and SGI designs tend to increase yardage spread?

The GI designs should minimize the yardage difference between good and bad face impact.  

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25 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

I might have worded my thoughts a little better.  My intention is to somehow hit the ball a few yards past my real intended target.  My intended target, where I want the center of my normal dispersion pattern to be, is always informed by the pin placement and the various problems both on and near the green.  I can't honestly tell you how I differentiate between intended target and what I'm thinking as I swing, but I do make a specific decision to hit it a little longer than where I really want it to land.

Is this because your shot data shows you coming up short more than long?  To out other low handicap forum members, same question?  I'm curious if "shorty issue" is the predominant pattern amongst the majority of players across all handicaps.

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1 minute ago, fixyurdivot said:

Is this because your shot data shows you coming up short more than long?  To out other low handicap forum members, same question?  I'm curious if "shorty issue" is the predominant pattern amongst the majority of players across all handicaps.

Its because, even though I know I don't hit every shot perfect, its that really good contact distance that sticks in my brain.  So I essentially fool myself into picking the right club to center my shot pattern pretty close to my intended target.  A separate component, I've never really used a launch monitor or GPS tracking to really determine my true pattern, so while I know my actual pattern is a bit shorter than my "ideal", I don't have data to show how short.  

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36 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

I might have worded my thoughts a little better.  My intention is to somehow hit the ball a few yards past my real intended target.  My intended target, where I want the center of my normal dispersion pattern to be, is always informed by the pin placement and the various problems both on and near the green.  I can't honestly tell you how I differentiate between intended target and what I'm thinking as I swing, but I do make a specific decision to hit it a little longer than where I really want it to land.

I was speaking more to the abbreviated swing.  I'm not sure mine is "abbreviated", just uncommitted with the longer club, LOLZ.

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I tend to make my club selection based on the yardage to the flag and if there is more green in front of behind the flag. Ultimately my goal is to always leave myself a putt. If that means hitting one more or less club than the number suggests then that's what I do. 

The only caveat to this is to have a realistic average carry distance fro all your irons, not your that one time down hill, down wind I hit X yardage.

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1 hour ago, fixyurdivot said:

Yea, clubbing up is probably more appropriate.  I do think many of us fall into that "the 7i goes xxx when struck well" category.  And, when you consider the handicap bell-curve, a very large portion falls into the dosen't hit the sweet-spot consistently.  Interesting question about about club design/categories.  I've often wondered about average yardage spread between sweet-spot and mishits.  Do the GI and SGI designs tend to increase yardage spread?

Ive heard it both ways, I think its a regional thing. Just like some slang, all depends on where youre from. @Shapotomous explained it perfectly. But I wonder as one gets more consistent with ball striking, will the GI/SGI iron yardage be as consistent as a more player oriented iron. 

This is a great thread by the way, I love talking strategy and the thought process that goes into the game. 

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42 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

So I essentially fool myself into picking the right club to center my shot pattern pretty close to my intended target.  

This is the key to the whole thing. I can stand on the range and pump 7 irons 180 without much problem, but I also know that I can hit it 165 when standing over it on the course. So if I have 170 to the hole the 7 iron is the perfect club. It is close to the center of my dispersion and increases the chances of me hitting the green. Last weekend I was 165 from fairway on 3rd hole, pin was on the back of the two tiered green. It was cold so I pull out 7 iron and I hit it well, it flew about 170, hit backside of green and I ended up with a 45 yard "chip" shot. So was it the wrong club? NO it flew within my dispersion pattern and just happened to end up on the wrong side of the coin that time. Point being that over a decent sample size that shot was the right play and I can't let it affect my next approach shot (it only took me 20 years to figure this out). 

 

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Is this because your shot data shows you coming up short more than long?  To out other low handicap forum members, same question?  I'm curious if "shorty issue" is the predominant pattern amongst the majority of players across all handicaps.

I used to be short most of the time, but have been focusing on better targets which has moved my dispersion circle into a better spot. My evaluation has also become less directional (short,
Long, left, right) and more proximity to the target.

Updated the last word to be target because The hole is seldom my target.
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