Justin Thomas hot mic

[fixyurdivot]

6 minutes ago, Berg Ryman said:

Bolded for my own emphasis.

It must be nice to consider a slur just a word guys. We as a society have a long list of words that can be used in this situation and the fact that this is where JT defaulted to is, in my mind, pathetic and troubling. I understand that to many of you this isn't a big deal, but to a segment of people it's a huge deal and we need to identify our own biases and privilege in forming these opinions. I would feel the same way if he used the n word, the r word, "gay", any real pejorative term that shouldn't be used in this day in age.

Look, you want to let off some steam, throw out an f bomb! Is it a swear word? Sure, but is it diminishing or marginalizing a group? Nope. I don't have a problem with people swearing on the golf course, but it just makes my skin crawl when people default to some of these terms that really shouldn't be used in some spots.

I get your point but still hear, frequently, people using the slur words you mention who are part of that group, or perhaps not part of that group but among another group, with absolutely no outrage or negative reaction (think rap lyrics)... what do we make of that?  While we work at eliminating the use of hurtful words, we should be working equally as hard at eliminating double standards. 

[tchat07]

The fact that you may or may not hear this or something worse every day doesnt matter.  He shouldnt have said it.  Period.  It shows a real lack of maturity on JT's part and I hope he learns and is a better man for it.
There was a time when golf was a gentleman's game but those days are clearly long gone.

100% agree shouldnt have been said not a question. As someone who has seen his intensity in person he has a temper for sure so him cursing in any way does not shock me.

To your comment about it being a gentleman's game no longer I think that could be a whole thread in itself.

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[CCRyder]

I have to admit one of the first things I thought , after the obvious oh that was bad and shouldn't have been said, was that's an odd thing to say to your golf ball.

Mostly because I guess when I'm cursing at myself or when I cross my own threshold for what I shouldn't be saying or could do better at it typically revolves more around sexism or gender stuff than it does sexuality or sexual orientation.

I guess posting this has made me do my own bit of reflection and realize I have more work to do on gender/sexism stuff than I do sexual orientation stuff.

For background I learned most of my sailor talk on a construction yard between the ages of 14 and 21 and again I don't ever remember yelling what JT yelled at an inanimate object, I just find it odd.




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[Chip Strokes]

@CCRydernot that it matters much in the grand scheme of things, but i think JT was calling himself (that word). not the ball. 

[CCRyder]

I like the way you put this about what he defaulted to because that's sort of what I was trying to get at in my own post and I hadn't read what you'd written.

kudos to the way you put that again it's just odd that this is what he defaulted to saying when there are other fabulous curse words and things that can be used without demeaning people or groups.

Bolded for my own emphasis.
It must be nice to consider a slur just a word guys. We as a society have a long list of words that can be used in this situation and the fact that this is where JT defaulted to is, in my mind, pathetic and troubling. I understand that to many of you this isn't a big deal, but to a segment of people it's a huge deal and we need to identify our own biases and privilege in forming these opinions. I would feel the same way if he used the n word, the r word, "gay", any real pejorative term that shouldn't be used in this day in age.
Look, you want to let off some steam, throw out an f bomb! Is it a swear word? Sure, but is it diminishing or marginalizing a group? Nope. I don't have a problem with people swearing on the golf course, but it just makes my skin crawl when people default to some of these terms that really shouldn't be used in some spots.

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[CCRyder]

Thanks for that perspective, makes ot less odd and now just a very poor choice of words.

[mention=105259]CCRyder[/mention]not that it matters much in the grand scheme of things, but i think JT was calling himself (that word). not the ball. 

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[yungkory]

24 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

I get your point but still hear, frequently, people using the slur words you mention who are part of that group, or perhaps not part of that group but among another group, with absolutely no outrage or negative reaction (think rap lyrics)... what do we make of that?  While we work at eliminating the use of hurtful words, we should be working equally as hard at eliminating double standards. 

Everything has context and it seems to me that that we're all intelligent enough to determine the intent? And since we're all able to, then JT mumbling this word, in this instance, to himself, makes it all a non-issue and we should move on? Can't blame him for other people using the word in a derogatory manner, towards a group of people, because he's a professional golfer who happened to get hot mic'd. He's a human first and a golfer second. Cancel culture will try their best but I don't believe it came from a place of hate.

I typed a response about rap music but it's entirely too political for the boards. Just know that the rappers saying the words don't always use it for its literal meaning. Much like you can be a B word and not be female, or a dog, you can be an F word and be heterosexual. The guys saying the words aren't out protesting against LGBTQ rights, unlike Aunt Agnes who goes to church every Sunday and has never said a bad word in her life.

[Chip Strokes]

23 minutes ago, yungkory said:

Everything has context and it seems to me that that we're all intelligent enough to determine the intent? And since we're all able to, then JT mumbling this word, in this instance, to himself, makes it all a non-issue and we should move on? Can't blame him for other people using the word in a derogatory manner, towards a group of people, because he's a professional golfer who happened to get hot mic'd. He's a human first and a golfer second. Cancel culture will try their best but I don't believe it came from a place of hate.

context should mean more, but unfortunately certain words are just no fly zones. 

the lgbt community worked for so long to gain their place in society, and that word just draws everyone straight back to a time when gay people were treated as less than. 

i hope this doesn’t have any big repercussions for JT. recreational outrage being what it is, people will have long stopped caring by the time the dust settles. 

it’s a stacked deck against athletes. when they’re doing the right things, they’re only seen as athletes. it’s only when they suffer a misstep that everyone loves to examine their responsibility to society at large. 

[Middler]

I’m an old guy from the “gentleman’s game” era, but you’re making way too much of this in terms of how it will/should affect JT. It’ll be forgotten by 99.9% of fans in a month. He said something he shouldn’t have, let the first who hasn’t - cast the first stone. Think what Tiger Woods did to his wife and children, and 99.9% of fans forgave him a long time ago, including his kids evidently.

[Chip Strokes]

2 minutes ago, Middler said:

I’m an old guy from the “gentleman’s game” era, but you’re making way too much of this in terms of how it will/should affect JT. It’ll be forgotten by 99.9% of fans in a month. He said something he shouldn’t have, let the first who hasn’t - cast the first stone. Think what Tiger Woods did to his wife and children, and 99.9% of fans forgave him a long time ago, including his kids evidently.

i’m not making a big deal of it. i slept like a baby last night after seeing it live on tv. 

just wanted to open a dialogue on it here to get some people’s opinions, that’s all.

[GaDawg]

10 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

People say and hear worse pretty much all day on life. The announcers and the media need something to talk about so to me it’s not that big of a deal as they make it out to be.

Amen Brother!

[russtopherb]

Someone who uses a slur like that, even if it’s quietly directed at themselves, means that slur is most likely part of their vocabulary. That’s not acceptable. The amount of brushing off I’m seeing in this thread is disappointing, to say the least.


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[Pstmstr]

Someone who uses a slur like that, even if it’s quietly directed at themselves, means that slur is most likely part of their vocabulary. That’s not acceptable. The amount of brushing off I’m seeing in this thread is disappointing, to say the least.


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Strap a live mic on this week and share the results with us. I think most of us utter words we shouldn’t occasionally. I agree he shouldn’t have said it. So does he and he apologized. Should he be stoned on live TV? Fined? Banished to cut golf course grass the rest of his life? Or maybe just realize he made a big mistake and learn from it? Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.


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[Middler]

11 hours ago, Chip Strokes said:

i’m not making a big deal of it. i slept like a baby last night after seeing it live on tv. 

just wanted to open a dialogue on it here to get some people’s opinions, that’s all.

Some certainly are.

[russtopherb]

50 minutes ago, Pstmstr said:

Strap a live mic on this week and share the results with us. I think most of us utter words we shouldn’t occasionally. I agree he shouldn’t have said it. So does he and he apologized. Should he be stoned on live TV? Fined? Banished to cut golf course grass the rest of his life? Or maybe just realize he made a big mistake and learn from it? Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

You'll hear plenty coming out of my mouth. You won't hear a disgusting homophobic slur.

I agree that he owned up to it and apologized. That's not my point. My point is that someone who uses slurs like that when they think they're alone do so because words like that are most likely part of their regular vocabulary. They shouldn't be. It's more than dropping an F bomb. Some people see them as the same. That's disappointing to me. 

[Middler]

9 minutes ago, russtopherb said:

You'll hear plenty coming out of my mouth. You won't hear a disgusting homophobic slur.

I agree that he owned up to it and apologized. That's not my point. My point is that someone who uses slurs like that when they think they're alone do so because words like that are most likely part of their regular vocabulary. They shouldn't be. It's more than dropping an F bomb. Some people see them as the same. That's disappointing to me. 

We get it. So what more exactly would you recommend be done to Justin Thomas? No one here is saying what he said was acceptable, no one is defending what he said.

[russtopherb]

2 minutes ago, Middler said:

We get it. So what more exactly would you recommend be done to Justin Thomas? Beyond the damage that’s already been done to endorsements, fans, etc.

I'm not recommending anything be "done" to Justin Thomas, because it's not my place to.

What I am recommending is some folks grasp the concept that slurs aren't the same as dropping an F-bomb and understand their true intent and meaning and why it's disgusting and unacceptable.

[Tom the Golf Nut]

I grew up in an area of NY where these words were common place and really not taken as their true intent. No one really took offence. It was just part of what was acceptable in the area. With that said I now live in the "Bible Belt" which is very different from where I was raised.  But first realize I did get my mouth washed out with Ivory soap by my mom when I was young. Foul language was not acceptable in our house (but my dad was a construction worker)  Once you were out of the house all bets were off. 

So after moving south, within 2 weeks of being here I was in HR with 6 other guys who helped transfer our company down. We learned rather quickly that what is acceptable language in one place is not in another. We were all given verbal warnings. 

So now that I have been in the south for about 15 years I find myself laughing or saying "Well Tom that was dumb" after a poor shot. What is more interesting is that I say this even when I am playing alone. I know that was not what I would have said years ago. I adapted to the culture.

With Justin being young and now all this coming into the spotlight I'm sure he will adapt as well. We all make mistakes and I'm sure he will learn from his.  

[CCRyder]

It appears to me the the natural course of events are doing their thing and JT has given a couple spot on, what seem to be heartfelt apologies and that's awesome. If he wanted a to take it a step further, not necessary in my opinion, totally his call but a classy move could be, taking any winnings from this tournament and donating them to the Trevor project or a another group that fights hate speech. And not put out a press release on the fact that he did so, letting whatever organization he donates to put that out if they want.

We get it. So what more exactly would you recommend be done to Justin Thomas? No one here is saying what he said was acceptable, no one is defending what he said.

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[MGoBlue100]

23 hours ago, Middler said:

They shouldn’t be miked in my opinion, but I know that horse left the barn long ago. It’s enough their bad shots and tantrums are shown. I also object to cameras going in close on faces of athletes and coaches with all televised sports after a misstep just hoping to catch cursing or the like, but also falling on deaf ears.

Unfortunately it's purposeful by the network in my opinion.  I don't believe the broadcast is 100% "LIVE".  If they're on a delay, they have the option to mute these comments if they wanted to.  Unfortunately. it's "news".  Heavy Sigh... 

[azstu324]

so follow-up question.. 

Would this discussion be going any differently had the "offender" been a more brash and colorful character that we might expect something like that to come from? Not excusing anything, but is the person in question what's raising all of the debate since so much more is expected of him specifically? 

 

[russtopherb]

8 minutes ago, azstu324 said:

so follow-up question.. 

Would this discussion be going any differently had the "offender" been a more brash and colorful character that we might expect something like that to come from? Not excusing anything, but is the person in question what's raising all of the debate since so much more is expected of him specifically? 

 

Again - why is expecting people not to use homophobic slurs in 2021 asking "more" of people? I don't care who used it, in what sport, or if it was on TV or right in front of me. It's not acceptable. 

55 minutes ago, MGoBlue100 said:

Unfortunately it's purposeful by the network in my opinion.  I don't believe the broadcast is 100% "LIVE".  If they're on a delay, they have the option to mute these comments if they wanted to.  Unfortunately. it's "news".  Heavy Sigh... 

Oh so it's the network's fault. Got it. 

[MGoBlue100]

3 minutes ago, russtopherb said:

Again - why is expecting people not to use homophobic slurs in 2021 asking "more" of people? I don't care who used it, in what sport, or if it was on TV or right in front of me. It's not acceptable. 

Oh so it's the network's fault. Got it. 

No, I didn't say it was the network's "fault".  Justin said it, he can own it, and I think he has.  However, the network also catches other pros dropping F-Bombs, etc.  That all could/should/does make the Tour and that player look bad.  Golf Channel chooses to broadcast all of it, in my opinion, purposefully.

[GolfSpy_SHARK]

1 hour ago, MGoBlue100 said:

Unfortunately it's purposeful by the network in my opinion.  I don't believe the broadcast is 100% "LIVE".  If they're on a delay, they have the option to mute these comments if they wanted to.  Unfortunately. it's "news".  Heavy Sigh... 

NFL bleeps out everything why cant PGA? This weekend with those close up camera shots after scores its all one big bleep lol.

[fixyurdivot]

5 minutes ago, Lacassem said:

NFL bleeps out everything why cant PGA? This weekend with those close up camera shots after scores its all one big bleep lol.

Good point.  But in order to add some contrast to this particular situation, perhaps it would be good to hear some of the NFL comments... well, on second thought, NOT.

[GolfSpy_SHARK]

4 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

Good point.  But in order to add some contrast to this particular situation, perhaps it would be good to hear some of the NFL comments... well, on second thought, NOT.

My guess probably alot worse Again its all bad but I am still on the wagon of its a word....People can be offended, hurt etc etc. Just like some folks (like myself) de-sensitized to these things and dont feel like its an issue (especially when its not coming from a place of malice or derogatory place)...its what sparks debate.

[azstu324]

1 hour ago, russtopherb said:

Again - why is expecting people not to use homophobic slurs in 2021 asking "more" of people? I don't care who used it, in what sport, or if it was on TV or right in front of me. It's not acceptable.

I didn't in any way say it was acceptable. I invite you to back and read my posts and you'll see who's side I'm on here. 

I'm just saying that there seems to be a lot of divide on a subject that I think is pretty cut/dry but looking at the forum consensus, apparently it's not. I just wonder if we'd all be having this type of discussion if it hadn't come from someone that everybody expects so much out of. 

I don't hate JT for what he did and I still think he's one of the good guys out there.. I just hate what he did. As I mentioned earlier, he's learning to become an adult with the world watching. He has made recent additional comments letting us know that it wasn't something he brushed off. He appears to be taking the appropriate responsible grown-up steps to correct his ways and that's all we can ask for right now. 

 

Just a curiosity.. That's all   

 

 

[russtopherb]

14 minutes ago, Lacassem said:

My guess probably alot worse Again its all bad but I am still on the wagon of its a word....People can be offended, hurt etc etc. Just like some folks (like myself) de-sensitized to these things and dont feel like its an issue (especially when its not coming from a place of malice or derogatory place)...its what sparks debate.

Glad you don't think it's an issue. Maybe think about those golfers (and anyone else) who it's a huge issue for - the young people struggling with their identity, being bullied, and forcing themselves to be something they're not. 

That's who's going to have an issue with it and when people claim it's not a big deal and not an issue, it has far more impact on them than we realize.

Look, I'm not saying anyone here is a bad person for not thinking it's an issue. I am saying that when it comes to words like the one used, and many other slurs, the mindset of "oh it's not bad, I've heard worse" tells people who that slur is regularly directed at that they don't matter and they should get over it. 

I know I'm in the minority here. It is what it is. Golf is overwhelmingly white, straight, and conservative (talking values, not politics) and incidents like this help keep it that way, much to it's detriment. But I'm not going to be a hypocrite and tell my kids that they need to call out issues like homophobia and racism, and not do the same when it's me. 

[GolfSpy MPR]

Just going to step in here for a bit.

First, good job to all of you for handling what can absolutely be a passionate discussion well. It would have been easy for this thread to go off the rails badly, but that really hasn't been the case so far.

That said, it is likely that most people have expressed their views here, and keeping the discussion going a lot longer is just inviting trouble. At some point, our views on this are going to be shaped by deeper values—as it should be. But the discussion of those deeper values almost always takes us to places that are important (religion and politics) but are outside the bounds for this forum. So the lock will be coming soon, not because anyone crossed the line, but to keep the line-crossing from happening.

Again, thanks for discussing this like adults. You guys make moderating (relatively) easy.

[GolfSpy_SHARK]

26 minutes ago, russtopherb said:

Glad you don't think it's an issue. Maybe think about those golfers (and anyone else) who it's a huge issue for - the young people struggling with their identity, being bullied, and forcing themselves to be something they're not. 

That's who's going to have an issue with it and when people claim it's not a big deal and not an issue, it has far more impact on them than we realize.

Look, I'm not saying anyone here is a bad person for not thinking it's an issue. I am saying that when it comes to words like the one used, and many other slurs, the mindset of "oh it's not bad, I've heard worse" tells people who that slur is regularly directed at that they don't matter and they should get over it. 

I know I'm in the minority here. It is what it is. Golf is overwhelmingly white, straight, and conservative (talking values, not politics) and incidents like this help keep it that way, much to it's detriment. But I'm not going to be a hypocrite and tell my kids that they need to call out issues like homophobia and racism, and not do the same when it's me. 

I am just speaking from my own personal experiences, there are words that could have offended me. I am not speaking to anyone else's own personal feelings to it but FOR ME personally words do not offend and regardless of the word (insert any here, not going to get into what those words could be) *especially with no malicious tones* no it does not matter to me.