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Online handicap service or use local club?


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50 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

This reply reaffirms why I don't keep a formal USGA handicap.  Regardless of a USGA or global system, it simply leaves a population of the golfing community out due to their particular play conditions. Maybe when we relocate to AZ and I get in a league, I'll reconsider. So, I maintain an Excel spreadsheet that uses the same method of calculation.  Most events I have participated in (I don't that often) use the honor system anyway and do not require a formal handicap. 

Any system will have to leave someone out, in order to be effective, I just don't believe there's a one-size-fits-all solution.  To me, this is exactly the right way to treat solo rounds, and for those who don't want or need an official handicap.

40 minutes ago, Curtis Atkinson said:

All this has been really helpful. As a newbie, and playing most of the time with guys who aren't going to get any sort of handicap, how does this method go about being attested to by guys I'm playing with. I've seen that you can input scores online via website/app but noticed on Grint and such that I could input email address for it to be sent to people I played with even if they didn't have a Grint account. How does that work with GHIN?

There has never been any requirement within the USGA Handicap system, or in the current USGA version of the WHS, to have scores attested.  You simply post your score, via a computer at the course, or through your phone, or through the GHIN website.  VSGA also has an app through which you can post scores to your handicap.  If I had my preference, the USGA would add requirements for pre-round registration for handicap rounds, and for post-round attestation.  Who knows, maybe future revisions will take us in that direction.

27 minutes ago, Tsmithjr9 said:

Agreed. The USGA doesn't give two craps about public course golfers.

I see @fixyurdivot's response, and I understand his problems living in a rural area.  But to me that seems like a rarity, it seems really rare in the metro DC area for anyone to have the opportunity to play many solo rounds.  The courses just aren't ever empty enough.  But I agree with @fixyurdivot in that this isn't a bias against public courses.  And I know its way beyond the scope of this topic, but I think elimination of solo rounds for handicap purposes makes perfect sense.

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On 1/15/2021 at 7:26 PM, Curtis Atkinson said:

Those are both very helpful thank you. If there's anyone local to VA it seemed at least looking at VSGA website that doing it through eclub also included the VA VIP card which included deals at some courses as well. Just wanted to see if anyone had any experience with that.

I lived in Leesburg, VA back in the early 2000's and had good experiences with both the VSGA and their VIP card.

The past few years I have maintained a handicap through the FSGA's online handicap account, and it's the same as what you would get if you belonged to a local club, and it's identical through the GHIN mobile app and website, etc.  I would imagine that the VSGA setup is the same as here in Florida via the FSGA.

I've belong to a club in Georgia, and opted to move my GHIN account through my local club, and the only difference now is that my GHIN is maintained through the GSGA.  I had a login issue when they converted my account over to my local club, and the GSGA was the contact that fixed my problem, and it had no involvement by my local club.

So essentially, even if you had your GHIN handicap with a local club, you'd still be dealing with the VSGA if you had issues with scores or postings, or whatever with your GHIN account.  The entire USGA GHIN networked is maintained by state golf associations, depending on which state you live in.

Hope this helps.

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1 hour ago, DaveP043 said:

There has never been any requirement within the USGA Handicap system, or in the current USGA version of the WHS, to have scores attested.  You simply post your score, via a computer at the course, or through your phone, or through the GHIN website.  VSGA also has an app through which you can post scores to your handicap.

So think about this for a moment.  If there is no requirement to have scores attested, then what is the difference whether I play solo, as a twosome, or a fivesome?  It seems to me that, at the core of your stated preference, is that golfers are dishonest.  How does the current system change this and why does who one plays a round with or not change this?  I've played with complete strangers who could give two chits about their score or mine... and sign a card without a second look.  You must have experienced quite a bit of sandbaganitis in your circles 🙂.

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So think about this for a moment.  If there is no requirement to have scores attested, then what is the difference whether I play solo, as a twosome, or a fivesome?  It seems to me that, at the core of your stated preference, is that golfers are dishonest.  How does the current system change this and why does who one plays a round with or not change this?  I've played with complete strangers who could give two chits about their score or mine... and sign a card without a second look.  You must have experienced quite a bit of sandbaganitis in your circles [emoji846].
This is among the lines of what I was implying with the USGA not giving a crap. It seems they have an assumption that players have access to a club/body/committee that will review and uphold scores. Or at least an association where there's always a match and 3 other guys to play with. I agree with your scenario that there's essentially no difference in playing solo and getting paired with a rando at the local muni. They don't care about me, and I don't care about them. I am allowed to post this score but not the one alone.

I don't live in a rural area, but because of family and job, I play at sunup on weekends as I can't afford to be out there for 5-6 hours like can happen. It's tough to find partners for 6AM tee times.

Take Dead Aim

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19 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

So think about this for a moment.  If there is no requirement to have scores attested, then what is the difference whether I play solo, as a twosome, or a fivesome?  It seems to me that, at the core of your stated preference, is that golfers are dishonest.  How does the current system change this and why does who one plays a round with or not change this?  I've played with complete strangers who could give two chits about their score or mine... and sign a card without a second look.  You must have experienced quite a bit of sandbaganitis in your circles 🙂.

I don't want to take this thread further from its original topic, so I'm going to start a new thread under the Rules section:

 

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On 1/17/2021 at 10:39 AM, Tsmithjr9 said:

You can post overall gross score or hole-by-hole. Though I believe if you post gross, you don't receive the equitable stroke adjustment.

Take Dead Aim
 

There are three GHIN options; hole by hole, hole by hole with stats and total score. For the stats option it's FIR (including misses - L,R, Short, Long), GIR and Putts. All info is entered as a gross score whether by hole or total.  GHIN will make adjustments to net if hole by hole or hole by hole with stats option is utilized. As an example in my case with a 18.7 index, the net works out to 1 + 2. So on a Par 5 anything over an eight gets recorded as an 8. 

Also for those of you using GHIN, if you haven't gotten an email from USGA, they are now setting up password protection. Go online or sent a message from the app for more info.   

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1 minute ago, tony@CIC said:

Also for those of you using GHIN, if you haven't gotten an email from USGA, they are now setting up password protection. Go online or sent a message from the app for more info. 

One thing with the changes for GHIN log-in, you need to have an email already in the system in order to set up your "Digital Account" or whatever the new term is.  If you don't have one, you'll need to contact your handicap administer to get your email added before you can take the next step.  

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Just now, DaveP043 said:

One thing with the changes for GHIN log-in, you need to have an email already in the system in order to set up your "Digital Account" or whatever the new term is.  If you don't have one, you'll need to contact your handicap administer to get your email added before you can take the next step.  

That is correct. My wife didn't have an email in the system - so she sent a message via the app under the 'contact us' portion and got an almost immediate response. 

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:ping-small: G410 SFT driver 

Cobra King F-9  5 wood
:ping-small:  410  Hybrids 22*, 26*

Cobra Speed Zone 6-GP/Recoil ESX 460 F3 Shafts 

:titelist-small: SM7 54* Wedge

:ping-small: Glide 3.0  60* Wedge

:odyssey-small: O Works putter
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:CaddyTek: - 4 Wheel 
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:1590477705_SunMountain: And  BAG Boy

Golf Balls: Snell MTB-X 

2020 Official Tester :SuperSpeed: Beginning Driver Speed  - 78

2019 Official Tester :ping-small:  410 Driver

2018 Official Tester :wilson-small: C300

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There are three GHIN options; hole by hole, hole by hole with stats and total score. For the stats option it's FIR (including misses - L,R, Short, Long), GIR and Putts. All info is entered as a gross score whether by hole or total.  GHIN will make adjustments to net if hole by hole or hole by hole with stats option is utilized. As an example in my case with a 18.7 index, the net works out to 1 + 2. So on a Par 5 anything over an eight gets recorded as an 8. 
Also for those of you using GHIN, if you haven't gotten an email from USGA, they are now setting up password protection. Go online or sent a message from the app for more info.   
That's cool the app allows stat tracking now. I had a second app on my phone. Though I didn't track last year, and let my GHIN be inactive. I didn't expect to play as much golf as I ended up.

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Really appreciate all the help. Sounds like best option is just to join through local club to be able to have GHIN access online and anything I need. Appreciate it!


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That's cool the app allows stat tracking now. I had a second app on my phone. Though I didn't track last year, and let my GHIN be inactive. I didn't expect to play as much golf as I ended up.

Take Dead Aim


That kicked in early last year and they've made minor improvements during the year. Keep in mind that the stats for the round are available in graphic form (pie charts, etc) after you post the round. However, once the score is posted you can see the scorecard but not the graphic format for that particular round. There is an option to see your stats for the current year, last year (2020), previous 12 months, scores by course/tee, plus a couple others. FYI, another nice feature is that you can input other GHIN users names and their recent scores will show up along with their index.

I continue to ask the developers for the ability to download the info or at the very least have a print feature. That would sure make my record keeping a lot easier.


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Left Hand orientation

:ping-small: G410 SFT driver 

Cobra King F-9  5 wood
:ping-small:  410  Hybrids 22*, 26*

Cobra Speed Zone 6-GP/Recoil ESX 460 F3 Shafts 

:titelist-small: SM7 54* Wedge

:ping-small: Glide 3.0  60* Wedge

:odyssey-small: O Works putter
:918457628_PrecisionPro:NX9-HD

:CaddyTek: - 4 Wheel 
:footjoy-small: - too many shoes to list and so many to buy

:1590477705_SunMountain: And  BAG Boy

Golf Balls: Snell MTB-X 

2020 Official Tester :SuperSpeed: Beginning Driver Speed  - 78

2019 Official Tester :ping-small:  410 Driver

2018 Official Tester :wilson-small: C300

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That kicked in early last year and they've made minor improvements during the year. Keep in mind that the stats for the round are available in graphic form (pie charts, etc) after you post the round. However, once the score is posted you can see the scorecard but not the graphic format for that particular round. There is an option to see your stats for the current year, last year (2020), previous 12 months, scores by course/tee, plus a couple others. FYI, another nice feature is that you can input other GHIN users names and their recent scores will show up along with their index.

I continue to ask the developers for the ability to download the info or at the very least have a print feature. That would sure make my record keeping a lot easier.


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Sorry for the last question. Feels like you use/are looking for similar things to it that I am (love studying data/stats). You go through local club for handicap registration then input everything into GHIN site/app?


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Hybrid: default_taylormade-small.jpg.e85cafcb95032f919dfafeb5fd18ac1e.jpg GAPR Hi 3h

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Putter: KS1

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On 1/16/2021 at 5:11 AM, MattF said:

You could use The Grint, they have a free membership that includes official USGA handicapping.

I also use thegrint.com for my hdcp. You can use the app or the website. 

I use the app 'golfpad gps' to record my rounds, so I enter my scores online hole by hole with putts and penalties on thegrint.com 

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Count me as another who uses The Grint.

I paid before you had to pay for it. Don't even use a fraction of the available features but I appreciated the app enough to donate, if you will.

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6 hours ago, Buffly said:

I also use thegrint.com for my hdcp. You can use the app or the website. 

I use the app 'golfpad gps' to record my rounds, so I enter my scores online hole by hole with putts and penalties on thegrint.com 

Interesting. My question is if you're using the grint for hdcp, why not use it to track shots on the course as well? Golfpad that much better?

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Irons: default_titelist-small.jpg.af6c79e031d0a7016fffa91ce0212512.jpg T300 4-PW + 48* & 53*w/ KBS tour stiff

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10 hours ago, Curtis Atkinson said:

 


Sorry for the last question. Feels like you use/are looking for similar things to it that I am (love studying data/stats). You go through local club for handicap registration then input everything into GHIN site/app?


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Correct, the club sets up the account number and then you can access either desktop or phone app. Sounds like GRINT also provides similar info, however, my Club includes it as part of the golf membership so I didn't have a reason to use the GRINT app. If you'd like I can message you some screen shots of the GHIN app and then you'd have a good comparison. 

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:ping-small: G410 SFT driver 

Cobra King F-9  5 wood
:ping-small:  410  Hybrids 22*, 26*

Cobra Speed Zone 6-GP/Recoil ESX 460 F3 Shafts 

:titelist-small: SM7 54* Wedge

:ping-small: Glide 3.0  60* Wedge

:odyssey-small: O Works putter
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:1590477705_SunMountain: And  BAG Boy

Golf Balls: Snell MTB-X 

2020 Official Tester :SuperSpeed: Beginning Driver Speed  - 78

2019 Official Tester :ping-small:  410 Driver

2018 Official Tester :wilson-small: C300

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On 1/17/2021 at 9:52 PM, Tsmithjr9 said:

This is among the lines of what I was implying with the USGA not giving a crap. It seems they have an assumption that players have access to a club/body/committee that will review and uphold scores. Or at least an association where there's always a match and 3 other guys to play with. I agree with your scenario that there's essentially no difference in playing solo and getting paired with a rando at the local muni. They don't care about me, and I don't care about them. I am allowed to post this score but not the one alone.

I don't live in a rural area, but because of family and job, I play at sunup on weekends as I can't afford to be out there for 5-6 hours like can happen. It's tough to find partners for 6AM tee times.

Take Dead Aim
 

With regards to playing rounds solo, versus playing rounds with others, and not being able to post solo, I'll simply say that I play better solo, because I just hit the ball, and go to my next shot, and I don't have to pause and wait for anyone else to hit.  So my tempo and rhythm are much better when playing solo (typically).  Also, because you don't have to wait on anyone else to hit, or look for anyone else's lost balls, you aren't distracted from your own game.  I believe the wait, and the distraction, and the pause between shots, waiting for others in your group to hit, is a HUGE factor in how you score, and why I play better solo (in general).  It's also why I consider my personal best scores that I've ever played to be better when posted with playing partners, versus the rounds that I scored alone.  For example, I've shot 71 six times in my life.  Three of them were alone, and three of them were in rounds with others.  A couple of those 71's were in tournaments.  I value the tournament rounds the most, and the 71s I shot alone to not be as good, purely because of the intangibles I mentioned above when playing with others.  Granted, I've broken through and shot 69 last month, so that round definitely stands out way beyond the rest, but it was played within a group, so it's easily my best round of golf ever.

Taking it ever further, lately I've gone to not even keeping score when I play solo, and consider it just practice, and I'll intentionally throw down a 2nd ball from various spots, just to invalidate the round played by myself.  I take that opportunity to work on my game, and refine certain clubs and shots.  Heck, I went out the other week with two new wedges and played 9 holes where I dropped 3 balls from two different wedge distances, just to break in these two new wedges.  I might have "played" nine holes, but I think I hit over 70 shots.  And none of those shots were putts, as I just picked up all the balls on the green, and didn't bother putting, as that was not why I was out there.

Sandbagging within clubs, and in other tournaments will always be an issue.  There are a few guys at my club that I play with regularly and I know their GHIN handicap is fake.  They refuse to post low rounds when they play them, and they'll often go 2 months between posting rounds, even though they play 3 or 4 times a week.  But when we have money on the line we always negotiate the strokes and bet so that it's fair amongst us.  I just refuse to play with certain guys in tournaments not at our home course, because I know these few guys will always wind up right at the top of the leaderboard of any net event.  But it's also one of the reasons why I shy away from net events.  I'd prefer to play someone straight up, mano a mano, versus me giving strokes and having to continually write down net birdies on every other hole from a guy who is getting 8-10 shots per round, and ends up beating me straight up.  It's also hard to compete against that, because I just finished playing in a net best ball tournament, where the course rating was 68, and my course handicap ended up being ZERO because my 3.2 index was a 0 course handicap with that rating.  I was playing a course I had never played before, against guys that knew that course like the back of their hand and were getting those 8-10 strokes.  Well, their net 69 absolutely destroyed my 77.  It's easy to shoot that 69 when you just par a hole and take the birdie, and keep the double bogeys to a minimum when you are stroking.

But yeah, the USGA doesn't police the GHIN, and there will be sandbaggers for as long as the game of golf is played.

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8 hours ago, Curtis Atkinson said:

Interesting. My question is if you're using the grint for hdcp, why not use it to track shots on the course as well? Golfpad that much better?

I can look at all the shots on GolfPad after the round and I have all my rounds on it since I started playing golf in 2017. My experience with theGrint app was less interactive, but it did record fairways hit and bunkers without extra work. 

Pluses and minuses to both I guess. 

I get a link like this to share my round:

Scored 92 at Mountain Meadows Golf Course http://www.golfpadgps.com/round/RUV2D823 #GolfPadGPS

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Golf is simple - people are complicated.

5w Taylormade SLDR S 19* - 220yd, Ping G2 5-U - 190-105, Maltby M+ 54* & MG 60* - 95-75, Evnroll ER8, Titleist 816 H1 4h 21*, Maltby 4 Hybrid Iron 24* - 210-200, Callaway XR16 8* - 235 carry

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