Off center Titleists????

[Tsecor 494]

I saw a tweet regarding off center titleists not being reported......here is the source.   They call out MGS and the "other" blog/forum site is pushing this as a knock on MGS. 

Whats the story here? any worries about crappy QC at Titleist? 

[RickyBobby_PR 5,869]

If you listen to the latest no putts given the guys talk about how across the industry everyone says titleist is the leader in qc and it’s not close. The segment on the podcast is just under 1/2 hour so they go into the subject of the Callaway tweet the other day that btw is no longer up on Callaway’s Twitter account and on Instagram they turned off the comments.

The ball lab stuff from mgs also dives into what they found from titleist balls.

[Middler 2,447]

I don't buy Callaway's claims, but they're on a mission, here's another salvo (maybe merge the two threads?):

 

[Berg Ryman 4,064]

So couple of things,

1) I don't trust an account who hasn't tweeted in nearly 6 months who tags a certain forum in an attempt to prove this grand conspiracy coverup.

2) His anecdotal evidence is 4 images that he didn't take and compiled from a hashtag.

3) No golf ball is going to be 100% perfect all of the time, it isn't going to happen. No golf ball has scored a "perfect" in consistency in the Ball Lab, and it will never happen. Tony even said in the left dash lab, there there were minor defects as to mixture and even centricity, but nothing that read as a major defect.

4) The one that looks visibly off-center? A Pro V1X from 2015, a ball from 5 years ago.

Basically guys, don't get sucked in, don't be bamboozled.

[fixyurdivot 10,664]

Tony does qualify the MGS position on the claim that we have not tested Callaway balls produced in the last 6 months... anyone think this is the difference maker?  Clearly "Truth in Advertising" laws here is the US are not very strict - and for sure when it pertains to products such as golf balls.  I think Chris hit the nail on the head with the idea that Callaway is playing to the mass consumer who is uninformed and buys to glitzy marketing.  

Truth In Advertising | Federal Trade Commission (ftc.gov)   

 

[yungkory 10,331]

10 minutes ago, Berg Ryman said:

So couple of things,

1) I don't trust an account who hasn't tweeted in nearly 6 months who tags a certain forum in an attempt to prove this grand conspiracy coverup.

2) His anecdotal evidence is 4 images that he didn't take and compiled from a hashtag.

3) No golf ball is going to be 100% perfect all of the time, it isn't going to happen. No golf ball has scored a "perfect" in consistency in the Ball Lab, and it will never happen. Tony even said in the left dash lab, there there were minor defects as to mixture and even centricity, but nothing that read as a major defect.

4) The one that looks visibly off-center? A Pro V1X from 2015, a ball from 5 years ago.

Basically guys, don't get sucked in, don't be bamboozled.

Recently, it seems like everyone is on a mission to discover some grand conspiracy. Social media really is a poison for people who lack the ability to think for themselves. Doctored/old images, vague use of the English language, etc. seem to trick people so easily nowdays it's concerning. They seem to question everything we've known for years without giving it a second thought, but will believe things they read on the internet without pause.

[fixyurdivot 10,664]

Good points.  It's also important to keep this in perspective.  There are a WHOLE LOT MORE golfers who care little about these rather minute differences and Callaway is, apparently choosing to leverage that part of the market.  If they can win with glitz and margins, why not.

[RickyBobby_PR 5,869]

9 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

Tony does qualify the MGS position on the claim that we have not tested Callaway balls produced in the last 6 months... anyone think this is the difference maker?  Clearly "Truth in Advertising" laws here is the US are not very strict - and for sure when it pertains to products such as golf balls.  I think Chris hit the nail on the head with the idea that Callaway is playing to the mass consumer who is uninformed and buys to glitzy marketing.  

Truth In Advertising | Federal Trade Commission (ftc.gov)   

 

I wouldn’t be surprised if Callaway made improvements over the last 6 months but with them being closed for as long as they were and having to play catch-up on the new csx and the issues it had plus trying to get stock to the stores it would be surprising jf the improvement was significant.  As the guys talk about the podcast with the car analogy they are doing a lot of things at one time using the same equipment. 
 

callaway is definitely playing to the masses. The marketing towards softer balls because amateurs prefer that helped Callaway in the sales of the CS. 

[captainlongball 0]

Just saw a post about this on IG as well. Maybe callaways claim isn't marketing?? It's not good for titelist, especially when other independent reviewers find multiple balls that are off center. They may say they have the best quality control in the game, but the results speak for themselves. Im sure with them charging what they do for their balls, they could do a better job of rejecting an off center ball. https://www.instagram.com/p/CKfNColliBe/?igshid=1o26x72o0ktwc

Edited January 27 by captainlongball

[cnosil 16,853]

Just saw a post about this on IG as well. Maybe callaways claim isn't marketing?? It's not good for titelist, especially when other independent reviewers find multiple balls that are off center. They may say they have the best quality control in the game, but the results speak for themselves. Im sure with them charging what they do for their balls, they could do a better job of rejecting an off center ball. https://www.instagram.com/p/CKfNColliBe/?igshid=1o26x72o0ktwc

Doesn’t really change anything in my mind unless there is a large percentage of balls with offcenter cores. All manufactures have tolerances and all manufactures release products with defects. you will seldom find any product that approaches 100% defect free unless lives are involve - medical, aircraft, military, food, etc.

I would have to go back and read ball lab for titleist but I believe Tony did find issues with Titleist balls.

What price would you be willing to pay for 100% defect free?

[RickyBobby_PR 5,869]

39 minutes ago, captainlongball said:

Just saw a post about this on IG as well. Maybe callaways claim isn't marketing?? It's not good for titelist, especially when other independent reviewers find multiple balls that are off center. They may say they have the best quality control in the game, but the results speak for themselves. Im sure with them charging what they do for their balls, they could do a better job of rejecting an off center ball. https://www.instagram.com/p/CKfNColliBe/?igshid=1o26x72o0ktwc

If you listen to the no putts given podcast they guys talk about how good titleist qc is and how across the industry everyone knows and recognizes titleist is the leader in this area.

 

from the left dash ball lab testing. Similar comment regarding prov1 in the ball lab report 

As we’re coming to expect from Titleist, there’s not much cause for concern when the balls are cut. Across the entire sample, no balls were flagged for significant defects in core centeredness or layer concentricity. Small mantle concentricity issues were observed in a handful of balls.

All of the defects were minor and not expected to have a meaningful impact on performance.

[greggarner 609]

29 minutes ago, cnosil said:

What price would you be willing to pay for 100% defect free?

According to Tony's results, $47.99 (Left Dash)

[TR1PTIK 2,893]

I've said it before (in one way or another) and I'll say it again, what makes golfers think it's reasonable to expect 100% perfection from OEMs? No manufacturer - regardless of industry - is going to get it 100% perfect 100% of the time. IT. DOES. NOT. HAPPEN!!! 

Like others have said, the sample size for these Titleist balls is small. For every one ball discovered with an off-center core, how many thousands, hundreds of thousands, or even millions were shipped with nary a blemish? 

We all know Callaway is a marketing machine - they have become the Taylormade of old - and they got called for some seriously suspect quality issues regarding their golf balls. Without question, it damaged their brand and hurt their bottom line. Now, they've gone and invested $50-million and need to regain consumer trust (or the consumer dollar to be more specific). Of course they're going to poke the bear.

Is it possible the claim is true? Sure. Is it likely? I don't think so. We really aren't all that far removed from the original ball test and #finditcutit. Seems like a big ask for Callaway to turn it around that quickly. Could I be wrong? Absolutely.

[RickyBobby_PR 5,869]

1 hour ago, TR1PTIK said:

We all know Callaway is a marketing machine - they have become the Taylormade of old - and they got called for some seriously suspect quality issues regarding their golf balls. Without question, it damaged their brand and hurt their bottom line. Now, they've gone and invested $50-million and need to regain consumer trust (or the consumer dollar to be more specific). Of course they're going to poke the bear.

Lot of old taylormade marketing guys at Callaway now or were there left there in the last year or so.

[captainlongball 0]

On 1/27/2021 at 9:09 AM, cnosil said:

Doesn’t really change anything in my mind unless there is a large percentage of balls with offcenter cores. All manufactures have tolerances and all manufactures release products with defects. you will seldom find any product that approaches 100% defect free unless lives are involve - medical, aircraft, military, food, etc.

I would have to go back and read ball lab for titleist but I believe Tony did find issues with Titleist balls.

What price would you be willing to pay for 100% defect free?

I dont think it changes to much for the average golfer cause they could care less and we will find a ball in the trees and play it like it was brand new i think its more on a tour level aspect and what they expect i mean the slightest off center hit changes the entire rotation of a ball and if the ball is already defective it will only exacerbate the problem and as consumers if pros lose confidence in a product so does the average joe because they want to play what the pros play

[captainlongball 0]

On 1/27/2021 at 9:20 AM, RickyBobby_PR said:

If you listen to the no putts given podcast they guys talk about how good titleist qc is and how across the industry everyone knows and recognizes titleist is the leader in this area.

 

from the left dash ball lab testing. Similar comment regarding prov1 in the ball lab report 

As we’re coming to expect from Titleist, there’s not much cause for concern when the balls are cut. Across the entire sample, no balls were flagged for significant defects in core centeredness or layer concentricity. Small mantle concentricity issues were observed in a handful of balls.

All of the defects were minor and not expected to have a meaningful impact on performance.

I seriously feel like even if it is a small percentage its still a percentage and in this day and age it seriously only takes one bad apple TBH and everyone is the judge, jury, and executioner they will condemn the hell out of it and like i said in the other reply if one tour pro feels like his game is tampered with in any way it becomes national news phil has said previously that the direction of certain types of grass grow in a general direction and it changes the ball flight and the type of shot he hits to compensate for that slight difference and dont even get me started on Bryson all it takes is one defective ball to change the whole discord

 

On 1/27/2021 at 9:20 AM, RickyBobby_PR said:

If you listen to the no putts given podcast they guys talk about how good titleist qc is and how across the industry everyone knows and recognizes titleist is the leader in this area.

 

from the left dash ball lab testing. Similar comment regarding prov1 in the ball lab report 

As we’re coming to expect from Titleist, there’s not much cause for concern when the balls are cut. Across the entire sample, no balls were flagged for significant defects in core centeredness or layer concentricity. Small mantle concentricity issues were observed in a handful of balls.

All of the defects were minor and not expected to have a meaningful impact on performance.

 

Edited February 11 by captainlongball

[RickyBobby_PR 5,869]

10 hours ago, captainlongball said:

I seriously feel like even if it is a small percentage its still a percentage and in this day and age it seriously only takes one bad apple TBH and everyone is the judge, jury, and executioner they will condemn the hell out of it and like i said in the other reply if one tour pro feels like his game is tampered with in any way it becomes national news phil has said previously that the direction of certain types of grass grow in a general direction and it changes the ball flight and the type of shot he hits to compensate for that slight difference and dont even get me started on Bryson all it takes is one defective ball to change the whole discord

 

 

There’s not a product in any category that is 100% defect free. The golf industry knows that titleist is the leader in QC, the ball lab testing has the same take. 
 

As for the tour the balls selected for the tour players are checked even harder so that a player doesn’t end up with a bad ball.

 

[fixyurdivot 10,664]

I will say that the latest Callaway commercial catches ones attention.  First that they are David taking on Goliath (in the golf ball market at least), second that they either simply don't care about the "off-center" core aspect of ball quality or their data is telling them it's better than the competition.  It's almost certain they randomly acquire and 3D x-ray balls from the competition... in particular Titleist Pro-V's. No way of knowing whether any data skewing/manipulation is involved however.  Those involved are very likely under NDA's