does mickelson still forward press his putter?

[Timmytoe]

Phil stands with the ball off of his instep [of his right foot]  From this guide when he used conventional grip, he delofted the putter just before swinging it https://youtu.be/GhzY7TIMnMU?t=348 does he still do this with his claw grip?

Edited January 25, 2021 by Timmytoe

[aerospace_ray]

Phil stands with the ball off of his instep [of his right foot]  From this guide when he used conventional grip, he delofted the putter just before swinging it

does he still do this with his claw grip?

I have wondered as well. Tried to observe him on TV several times. I thought he did albeit not as pronounced as I have seen in past but it could have been viewing angle. And I have wondered if the type greens/speed affect his stroke mechanics?

Sent from my SM-N960U using MyGolfSpy mobile app

[cnosil]

Look for some videos via google. Found one where they were talking about the pause he implemented from July of last year.   He did have a slight forward press to start the stroke

[PMookie]

1 hour ago, Timmytoe said:

Phil stands with the ball off of his instep [of his right foot]  From this guide when he used conventional grip, he delofted the putter just before swinging it https://youtu.be/GhzY7TIMnMU?t=348 does he still do this with his claw grip?

Yep. Saw him play the last 4 holes of his “all pars” round Friday. BIG forward press!!!

[Buffly]

His putting isn't great lately, so how he putts is of no consequence to me

[Chip Strokes]

4 hours ago, Buffly said:

His putting isn't great lately, so how he putts is of no consequence to me

very helpful. 

OP...yes he does. he sets his feet, then sets his grip, presses the shaft forward, and finally rolls. 

[cnosil]

very helpful. 

Turning on very sarcastic mode:

A Poster blasts other posters about not responding appropriately to an OP question and providing no value. Then does the exact same thing.

Sarcastic mode off.

[Headhammer]

"Blast"? The fact that he is from Queens, I would argue Chip offered nothing more than a love tap! 

[BMart519]

Phil uses 2 different grips these days (claw and regular), which one are you asking about? 

 

[Chip Strokes]

1 hour ago, Headhammer said:

"Blast"? The fact that he is from Queens, I would argue Chip offered nothing more than a love tap! 

haha exactly. thin skin need not apply where i’m from. 

although, @cnosilwasn’t referring to me with his post. 

[Buffly]

The more I think about the thought of a forward press, it makes me wonder what it actually accomplishes? Irregardless of who uses a forward press, what does a forward press require of the equipment? What does a forward press do that a "standard" (used very loosely) stroke doesn't?

I would guess that a forward press delofts the putter which will require the putter loft to be higher in order to deliver 1.5°-3° at impact. So, a forward leaner, including the arm lock guys, will need closer to 6° of loft on the putter to even attempt either stroke. I could be totally wrong? 

Assuming the extra loft exists to allow proper dynamic loft at impact, what does delofting accomplish? My guess is that it quiets the wrists for more of a dragging stroke. The benefit could be keeping the face free from excessive rotation through the impact zone. 

Putting stroke types seem to vary as much as leave shapes on a tree, so saying one is best is futile. However, realizing one shape works best for you is a gold mine. 

The 50%/50% back and through, 25 back/75 through, 75 back/25 through, and the Snedeker/Nicklaus Pop stroke are some variations without taking shaft lean, ball position, or grip into consideration. I like how Jack Nicklaus described his stroke and stance as the way he best saw the line due to his eye dominance issue. 

So, why is @Timmytoe asking? Just curious now. 

Btw: lots of respect to @cnosil & @aerospace_ray for being gentlemen 

note: my original response about Phil's latest struggles with the putter should not take away that he has proven through his career that he has been a great putter 

lastly, when I get in the putting doldrums I have found addressing my setup and starting the ball on my intended line has helped more than changing my stroke. For me, eyes over the hosel works the best with the ball near my left eye or cheek. I use chalk lines, string, laser line, or alignment sticks for seeing the line and starting on line. And, to keep my wrists from rotating to much, I raise the handle slightly so the shaft points more at the middle of my torso than my belly. (What works for me might not work for others)

[cnosil]

@Buffly Lots of questions/statements and here are my thoughts based on what I have learned over the years. 

The more I think about the thought of a forward press, it makes me wonder what it actually accomplishes? Irregardless of who uses a forward press, what does a forward press require of the equipment? What does a forward press do that a "standard" (used very loosely) stroke doesn't?

The forward press is more of a trigger than anything to do with his stroke.  He could just as easily put the putter in that position and make the putting stroke.  Generally, we are told that every swing and putter stroke should have some kind of trigger than initiates the movements and that starting from a non moving position isn't a good thing.   A forward press requires the exact same things that a non forward press requires regarding equipment.  More on that in the next answer.

I would guess that a forward press delofts the putter which will require the putter loft to be higher in order to deliver 1.5°-3° at impact. So, a forward leaner, including the arm lock guys, will need closer to 6° of loft on the putter to even attempt either stroke. I could be totally wrong? 

As with any putter you need to find the right loft based on how you deliver the putter at impact.   Your 1.5*-3* isn't applicable to everyone;  it will depend on green conditions, shaft lean (forward, level, or back) at impact, and if you hit the ball on the downstroke, bottom, or upstroke.  I would agree that typically forward leaners and arm lock guys need more loft because they would tend to stroke the ball with the shaft leaning forward. 

Assuming the extra loft exists to allow proper dynamic loft at impact, what does delofting accomplish? My guess is that it quiets the wrists for more of a dragging stroke. The benefit could be keeping the face free from excessive rotation through the impact zone. 

There is no real benefit or drawback,  it is just what they do and are comfortable with.  

Putting stroke types seem to vary as much as leave shapes on a tree, so saying one is best is futile. However, realizing one shape works best for you is a gold mine. The 50%/50% back and through, 25 back/75 through, 75 back/25 through, and the Snedeker/Nicklaus Pop stroke are some variations without taking shaft lean, ball position, or grip into consideration. I like how Jack Nicklaus described his stroke and stance as the way he best saw the line due to his eye dominance issue. 

This is very true but I would change your word shape to stroke in the second sentence.  As a player you make choices about your putting stroke.  You choose how you setup to the ball, how you power the stroke, and how you grip the stroke.   The thing is that some of those choices may be in conflict with one another and be detrimental to your stroke and ability to make putts.  Ultimately,  as a player your goal is to pick a speed and corresponding line to maximize your chances of making the putt.  

lastly, when I get in the putting doldrums I have found addressing my setup and starting the ball on my intended line has helped more than changing my stroke. For me, eyes over the hosel works the best with the ball near my left eye or cheek. I use chalk lines, string, laser line, or alignment sticks for seeing the line and starting on line. And, to keep my wrists from rotating to much, I raise the handle slightly so the shaft points more at the middle of my torso than my belly. (What works for me might not work for others)

No reason to change the stroke after you have made your decisions on how you want to putt;  just continue to work on those choices to help make them repeatable.  

[GolfSpy AFG]

If you follow Dave Stockton at all, or have read his book "Unconscious Putting", he is a very big advocate of a forward press.  As @cnosildescribes, it's intended to be a trigger...Stockton advises a dynamic rather than static start to the putting stroke.  And yes, for a long time he worked with Mickelson...in fact Phil wrote the foreword to Unconscious Putting if memory serves.  

It's also the reason Stockton advocates having some loft on the putter, in his case 7 degrees, which is a lot more than the 2 degrees that many putters are at in stock condition.

Having said all that, I know I sound like an idiot for arguing with a putting guru like Stockton, but after experimenting with it a bit I decided it's not for me.  I have my putters at 4 degrees because I have a slight press, but it's in my setup, not the "dynamic" intentional press to initiate the motion like Stockton advocates or you see Phil doing.  Again, I'm in no position to argue with him, but to my way of thinking, why would I introduce one more variable?  In other words, isn't it going to jack up my stroke if I'm forward-pressing inconsistently in terms of degrees of press?

My two cents.

[aerospace_ray]

This thread and the dialog in everyones responses made me think about a lesson from an instructor I saw one time. Now at that time I was experimenting with face balanced putter and a more straight back straight thru  (SBST) putting motion. The instructor was against forward press motion (which I naturally do depending on mood/type greens I play) and toe hang putter models.

In order to articulate what the instructor stated, I researched web and decided to borrow the quote/link below which is nearly verbatim what the instructor stated.

" Let’s talk about what a forward press is.  It’s the “changing of a vector… which is a power angle, like hitting a cue ball with a cue…”  In general, forward presses are trying to take away left aim.  This delofts the putter and opens the face" (source of quote:https://golfcritique.com/podcasts/forward-press-is-it-really-improving-your-putting/ ). 

It was the fact that my strong arc motion had to having near perfect timing to achieve square contact. I have always putted with arc/lots of opening/closing face. And I agree if I am off I miss. Guess growing up playing hard fast bent grass can do that .

The SBST was an attempt to improve. But with 40+ years of timing my stroke I guess I will live with the risk. Its natural to me. The SBST attempt just never felt right--distance control was never there.

Sorry not trying to change the discussion of this thread, the forward press kinda brings back a lot memories and I am ok with it. 

[BMart519]

Forward press allows me to maintain a more consistent lead wrist angle and therefore delivered loft than using a more neutral shaft lean. More consistent loft improves distance control. My miss is a pull, so opening the putter face is likely a benefit as well. In terms of adding a variable - if you can't achieve a relatively similar amount of press from putt to putt, god help your full swing and the number of variables there. How would you ever hit a ball off an uneven lie. 

The only reason I press is I've tested it on the course, with Exputt, and with drills indoors which all showed better make rates and closer leaves. It wasn't to obtain a specific static or delivered loft, open the face etc, it was strictly to improve performance (distance control) through better consistency.