Driver shaft profiles and AOA and strike location

[Vegan_Golfer_PNW]

Some of you know I have been tinkering with a driver at 44.5” in my EPIC flash SZ. I am consistent with it but been major heel heavy hitting and my AOA is pretty low. It is the pro 2.0 TS 70 in XS and here are my questions:

 

could my shaft be too stiff for me now that it is an inch short? ( I bulked up the head to get a heavier SW)

could my heel strikes be shaft related or swing related or both?

would a different profile, like a ventus or Rdx etc give me a more positive AOA?

I know most of these answers will end in go get fit or test on a monitor, which I may be able to do come March or so.

 

Any insight is greatly appreciated

 

 

 

 

[RickyBobby_PR]

Heel strikes are going to be swing related especially with already having a shorter shaft. AOA is affected by club path. The more inside to out the more positive it will be. The more outside to in the more negative it will be.

A shaft profile itself isn’t going to fix swing swing issues, just like the shaft itself isn’t going to drop spin by a thousand rpm. 

 Weight of a shaft has the potential to help the body work better in sequencing in that the body will try to use the muscles more efficiently, but isn’t a guarantee. 

And yes the best way to find the setup is to get fit and it really boils down to both the head and shaft. There’s different approaches as we’ve seen from people who get fit that some places like CC use shaft first then head while many places including OEMs fit head first then use the shaft to fine tune. This has been my experience from TM, Ping tour van, Titleist and my visit to UST Mamiya. 

 

 

[RickyBobby_PR]

Wanted to add some other anecdotal info from my fittings and shaft testing. I had a ping fitting for the g25 driver and I had a slight over the top swing. We used several shafts from their stock offering. Then switched to an after market diamana that was 72g and it improved my spin numbers and also my launch but didn’t affect my ott move.  
 

In 2017 I had the chance to test and provide feedback on the evenflow blue shaft. It was a shaft that with my quick transition would feel boardy at the start of transition. then had the chance to go to PX HQ and work with their head of design and provide feedback and create a one off shaft based on that. The only change made was to soften the shaft feel by increasing torque. To do this it dropped the weight by 3g and they used 3 layers of a different prepreg it didn’t change the over EI profile of the shaft. On a monitor the tow shafts didn’t change in the various launch characteristics despite the better feeling in the new shaft.

[cnosil]

Just some other comment AoA is probably more of a swing thing than a shaft thing. While shaft deflection can impact AoA. I’d probably start with swing. Personally I am losing distance with a slight downward AoA but can fix it if I tweak my swing; just a hard thing for me to do consistently.

Also the general advice is add weight to the head if you shorten a shaft. That is a generality and some people may swing better with a lower SW. a shaft switch may also change the swing weight.

[jaskanski]

A simple change in ball position or tee height could be a revelation if you go to see a pro. 

It's a lot simpler than reaching for a solution by applying your own guesswork - in that the inert object (in this case the shaft) is the root cause of the problem.

A quick tip for any budding self-fitters out there: eliminate the variables first. That means once you are certain one element is functioning OK, it can be discarded as the cause. So before you even start your backswing, make sure the fundamentals are in place - that means (and I know it sounds boring) grip, stance, ball position, alignment, tee height. Basics. And a good pro will identify this in minutes - and potentially save you wasting money on equipment.

Once you have a solid set up, then you can analyse the effect equipment has combined with your swing. 

My 2 cents.

[Micah T]

@rbsiedsc show us a picture of your address of the ball side on. Let’s see how you set up.

For me my AoA was -3 at some points with my driver, yielding me 265 yard carries even though an average driver swing is 115 mph for me. The input wasn’t matching the output, and that negative aoa was giving me a crazy high spin loft number.

My driver address had become too neutral: avg carry 266 yards


I widened my stance which helps shallow the swing, and focused on “posting up” on my back leg before starting my downswing: avg carry 282


I’m definitely not an instructor, but this little diy tweak got me back 16 yards without “changing” my swing...

[Vegan_Golfer_PNW]

38 minutes ago, jaskanski said:

A simple change in ball position or tee height could be a revelation if you go to see a pro. 

It's a lot simpler than reaching for a solution by applying your own guesswork - in that the inert object (in this case the shaft) is the root cause of the problem.

A quick tip for any budding self-fitters out there: eliminate the variables first. That means once you are certain one element is functioning OK, it can be discarded as the cause. So before you even start your backswing, make sure the fundamentals are in place - that means (and I know it sounds boring) grip, stance, ball position, alignment, tee height. Basics. And a good pro will identify this in minutes - and potentially save you wasting money on equipment.

Once you have a solid set up, then you can analyse the effect equipment has combined with your swing. 

My 2 cents.

Thanks. My grip and setup is ok and I have kinda seen a pro about that and used Monte's videos. I actually have to use a low tee height in the standard ball position but can play it a little higher if i tee closer to my lead foot (basically inline with my big toe). I learned my lesson the hard way with some sky balls :S 

[Vegan_Golfer_PNW]

5 minutes ago, Micah T said:

@rbsiedsc show us a picture of your address of the ball side on. Let’s see how you set up.

For me my AoA was -3 at some points with my driver, yielding me 265 yard carries even though an average driver swing is 115 mph for me. The input wasn’t matching the output, and that negative aoa was giving me a crazy high spin loft number.

My driver address had become too neutral: avg carry 266 yards

So I widened my stance to shallow my swing, and focus more on “posting up” avg carry 282


I’m no instructor but this little tweak helped get my distance back...


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy
 

see my comment below. I will try to get an address picture the next time I get to the range.

[Rtracymog]

11 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Wanted to add some other anecdotal info from my fittings and shaft testing. I had a ping fitting for the g25 driver and I had a slight over the top swing. We used several shafts from their stock offering. Then switched to an after market diamana that was 72g and it improved my spin numbers and also my launch but didn’t affect my ott move.  
 

In 2017 I had the chance to test and provide feedback on the evenflow blue shaft. It was a shaft that with my quick transition would feel boardy at the start of transition. then had the chance to go to PX HQ and work with their head of design and provide feedback and create a one off shaft based on that. The only change made was to soften the shaft feel by increasing torque. To do this it dropped the weight by 3g and they used 3 layers of a different prepreg it didn’t change the over EI profile of the shaft. On a monitor the tow shafts didn’t change in the various launch characteristics despite the better feeling in the new shaft.

That must have been an amazing opportunity! I 'd love to hear the backstory behind that!

[aerospace_ray]

13 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Wanted to add some other anecdotal info from my fittings and shaft testing. I had a ping fitting for the g25 driver and I had a slight over the top swing. We used several shafts from their stock offering. Then switched to an after market diamana that was 72g and it improved my spin numbers and also my launch but didn’t affect my ott move.  
 

In 2017 I had the chance to test and provide feedback on the evenflow blue shaft. It was a shaft that with my quick transition would feel boardy at the start of transition. then had the chance to go to PX HQ and work with their head of design and provide feedback and create a one off shaft based on that. The only change made was to soften the shaft feel by increasing torque. To do this it dropped the weight by 3g and they used 3 layers of a different prepreg it didn’t change the over EI profile of the shaft. On a monitor the tow shafts didn’t change in the various launch characteristics despite the better feeling in the new shaft.

That is awesome that you got to participate in a truly custom shaft created to your desires/fitting needs. Man wouldn't that be nice if it were feasible for all golfers to go and be able to have a fit shaft actually fit and feel right each time?  Guess I can dream for a day..... 

[RickyBobby_PR]

8 hours ago, Rtracymog said:

That must have been an amazing opportunity! I 'd love to hear the backstory behind that!

It was during my time on a different forum. It was one of the many events they hosted for members. I was part of the group that went to the 3rd trip. We spent about 6 weeks testing a mystery shaft and gathering our feedback. We spent a day at px hq which is when we learned what shaft we had tested and then got to work with their lead design guy providing our feedback and he took that and tweaked the materials and/or profile to fit what we were saying. Some guys had a minor tweak like an extra flag in the tip and some a completely unique 1 off design. When we weren’t with the design guy we worked with their graphics guy to design our shaft graphics. We also go to tour the facility before that. The second day we rolled our own shaft which is the version that got our graphics placed on them. That day we got a raw version to use for our round of golf that afternoon 

6 hours ago, aerospace_ray said:

That is awesome that you got to participate in a truly custom shaft created to your desires/fitting needs. Man wouldn't that be nice if it were feasible for all golfers to go and be able to have a fit shaft actually fit and feel right each time?  Guess I can dream for a day..... 

it is pretty cool to have that. I haven’t used mine in awhile 

[fixyurdivot]

On 1/27/2021 at 7:33 AM, rbsiedsc said:

Some of you know I have been tinkering with a driver at 44.5” in my EPIC flash SZ. I am consistent with it but been major heel heavy hitting and my AOA is pretty low. It is the pro 2.0 TS 70 in XS and here are my questions:

 

could my shaft be too stiff for me now that it is an inch short? ( I bulked up the head to get a heavier SW)

could my heel strikes be shaft related or swing related or both?

would a different profile, like a ventus or Rdx etc give me a more positive AOA?

I know most of these answers will end in go get fit or test on a monitor, which I may be able to do come March or so.

 

Any insight is greatly appreciated

 

 

 

 

Randy, did you ever get the fitting done?  Knowing your AoA among other swing/impact data would be so helpful.  I was happy to hear my fitter tell me my AOA was right where he'd want it.  My shaft change from Alta CB stiff to the KBS Tour Reg was more reflective of my not so amazing 92 mph swing speed and the help the R-flex offered getting improved square at impact.  I'm seeing a conservative 8-10 yards increase in carry and more short grass landings.

[Vegan_Golfer_PNW]

1 hour ago, fixyurdivot said:

Randy, did you ever get the fitting done?  Knowing your AoA among other swing/impact data would be so helpful.  I was happy to hear my fitter tell me my AOA was right where he'd want it.  My shaft change from Alta CB stiff to the KBS Tour Reg was more reflective of my not so amazing 92 mph swing speed and the help the R-flex offered getting improved square at impact.  I'm seeing a conservative 8-10 yards increase in carry and more short grass landings.

Hey Bill. I did see my fitter and he helped me setup my current specs. Ok am currently testing some more forgiving heads to see what I can accomplish. I will say I am not hitting fairways like I want to. With the Fuji 2.0 I was a higher clip but way less distance 

[fixyurdivot]

6 minutes ago, rbsiedsc said:

Hey Bill. I did see my fitter and he helped me setup my current specs. Ok am currently testing some more forgiving heads to see what I can accomplish. 

What did they show for your AoA; was it low as you thought?  Prior to my fittings, I picked up a used Callaway Razr-Fit 9 degree to replace my GBB I had been gaming for nearly 20 years. When I was selected to test the G410P, I tested the 9 degree and 10.5 degree at a course/pro shop in Yuma.  It was that non LM fitting that we selected the 9 degree and Alta CB stiff - largely just watching ball flight. So much of what I read suggests far too many players are using too low a lofted driver and I really expected the TrueSpec fitter to recommend adjusting mine to a higher setting or even a new, higher nominal lofted head. He said the AoA and LA looked fine... it really surprised me.

 

[Vegan_Golfer_PNW]

Just now, fixyurdivot said:

What did they show for your AoA; was it low as you thought?  Prior to my fittings, I picked up a used Callaway Razr-Fit 9 degree to replace my GBB I had been gaming for nearly 20 years. When I was selected to test the G410P, I tested the 9 degree and 10.5 degree at a course/pro shop in Yuma.  It was that non LM fitting that we selected the 9 degree and Alta CB stiff - largely just watching ball flight. So much of what I read suggests far too many players are using too low a lofted driver and I really expected the TrueSpec fitter to recommend adjusting mine to a higher setting or even a new, higher nominal lofted head. He said the AoA and LA looked fine... it really surprised me.

 

I was -3. He then had me adjust my setup. Higher tee farther up in stance. I was set down to 8* and weight at the toe. My AOA went up to 3-5* as well but I had no control. 

[Micah T]

31 minutes ago, rbsiedsc said:

I was -3. He then had me adjust my setup. Higher tee farther up in stance. I was set down to 8* and weight at the toe. My AOA went up to 3-5* as well but I had no control. 

This is what I’ve discovered as well; teeing higher has just widened dispersion. I’ve started teeing it lower again and my AoA hovers around -1.0 - +1.5. Don’t hit it as far but I’m hitting more fairways than ever before.

[fixyurdivot]

25 minutes ago, Micah T said:

This is what I’ve discovered as well; teeing higher has just widened dispersion. I’ve started teeing it lower again and my AoA hovers around -1.0 - +1.5. Don’t hit it as far but I’m hitting more fairways than ever before.

I too have adopted the tee it lower approach based on the TS fitter recommendation.  I am finding the face center more consistently.  I tried the tee it up and swing up but that just made things too erratic. My avg. AoA was 0.5 with the Alta CB and 0.2 with the KBS.  I still feel like my 80 avg. peak height seems low as compared to many players (particularly younger) I have played rounds with.  Yesterday's round for example, both the young guys balls brought rain yet out drove me by ~15 yards.  I suspect SS training is my most viable bet on increasing distance... but not with my left shoulder .

[Chip Strokes]

1 hour ago, rbsiedsc said:

I was -3. He then had me adjust my setup. Higher tee farther up in stance. I was set down to 8* and weight at the toe. My AOA went up to 3-5* as well but I had no control. 

what kinds of numbers are you seeing for swing speed, launch angle, spin, and where are you making contact on the face?

im sure with that kind of information, some of the guys here can give you quality advice. 

[ejgaudette]

13 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

I too have adopted the tee it lower approach based on the TS fitter recommendation.  I am finding the face center more consistently.  I tried the tee it up and swing up but that just made things too erratic. My avg. AoA was 0.5 with the Alta CB and 0.2 with the KBS.  I still feel like my 80 avg. peak height seems low as compared to many players (particularly younger) I have played rounds with.  Yesterday's round for example, both the young guys balls brought rain yet out drove me by ~15 yards.  I suspect SS training is my most viable bet on increasing distance... but not with my left shoulder .

Was listening to a TXG video and Ian mentioned that for most amatures with their swing speed getting peak height around your 6 iron swing speed is pretty good. Much faster players, tour speeds, peak more around there driver swing speed. By his math if you swing a 6 iron at around 80 then that peak height is right on.

[Vegan_Golfer_PNW]

1 hour ago, Chip Strokes said:

what kinds of numbers are you seeing for swing speed, launch angle, spin, and where are you making contact on the face?

im sure with that kind of information, some of the guys here can give you quality advice. 

I’d have to pull the numbers again but prior to adjusting I was launching at like 14* and my spin was 3k plus. My dispersion was mostly hooky to pull. My miss is heel side on the face. Really working on face contact better but the Tensei shaft is hard for me to feel control. When adjustments were made and ball position and tee height, I think I was still 2700 and 16* launch but my dispersion was all over. My transition was also called very aggressive by the fitter. As @twyatt700can attest, I can launch it but usually at trees as when I play for the fade I can get straight pully. 

[dlow206]

Need that Epic Max LS man. This thing is forgiving. I've hit some balls where right after impact i was like oh thats going to go nowhere but it still went. 

[Micah T]

3 hours ago, rbsiedsc said:

I’d have to pull the numbers again but prior to adjusting I was launching at like 14* and my spin was 3k plus. My dispersion was mostly hooky to pull. My miss is heel side on the face. Really working on face contact better but the Tensei shaft is hard for me to feel control. When adjustments were made and ball position and tee height, I think I was still 2700 and 16* launch but my dispersion was all over. My transition was also called very aggressive by the fitter. As @twyatt700can attest, I can launch it but usually at trees as when I play for the fade I can get straight pully. 

I’m a pull-fader; so my miss is the dreaded straight shot, left of the fairway. Ironically, the better swings are the ones that miss the fairway. Fixing set-up issues are the key for me...