between Cobra F7s & Wishon Sterlings, which do you suggest using for single length clubs ?

[Timmytoe]

іvе rеаd thаt Cоbrа chаngеs thе lіе аnglе fоr еаch club. Thеу hаvе thеіr rеаsоns whіch Wіshоn dіsаgrееs wіth

Edited January 28, 2021 by Timmytoe

[bellairemi]

My experience was that Sterlings gapping was better and they were equally forgiving with the F7s.  My brother has the set of Sterlings I built and will no doubt play them until they fall apart.

[russtopherb]

Posters here play single lengths from both manufacturers, and have good things to say about both. F7s are a few gens old at this point, and Cobra has definitely refined their SL setup in the meantime.

[StrokerAce]

I played the first version of the sterling's and still have them. shot my first sub-80 round with them. when I was looking for one length it was either them or F7 or the outrageously priced Edel. I was leaning Sterling and found this - https://forums.golfwrx.com/profile/62322-tomwishon/content/

Tom Wishon is a legend in club building and he is a frequent contributor on golfwrx. he answered many many questions and was able to clearly identify the different strategies employed to get the gapping correct. I encourage you to read through the threads he's participated in; a lot of my questions were answered.

If I could afford the new ones I'd be playing the 2nd gen Sterling's. they look fantastic. 

[aerospace_ray]

6 hours ago, Timmytoe said:

іvе rеаd thаt Cоbrа chаngеs thе lіе аnglе fоr еаch club. Thеу hаvе thеіr rеаsоns whіch Wіshоn dіsаgrееs wіth

So I prefer Wishon for several reasons but I would have no issue gaming Cobra (and I have in the past). I am a seasoned club maker and decent with fitting (will never claim expert status as technologies evolve so fast and I can not keep up with it, so I trust fitting myself/family but would not fit anyone else knowing there are more modern/qualified people with current technologies that can do better--I digress ). 

To point, imo the Wishon Sterlings "feel" better (very subjective I know). I have decades of experience with Wishon and trust his knowledge/design methodologies. Wishon would most likely expect you to be fit and his models adjusted to your final specs. In other words you might order stock spec (loft and lie) Sterlings and even choose a length based on static fitting say 37.5" but the loft and lie angles may need to be adjusted. With the Cobra's I see its a true one size fits all-- whatever the length you choose, the loft and lie are Cobra standards. Now I am sure Cobra or any qualified fitter can dial the Cobra's in to your true required specs I just don't think that is the business model for Cobra. So I don't see Wishon and Cobra the same. One is meant to be custom fit for all fitting variables and one is off the shelf and you have to request any special loft/lie tweaks. I have hit both and the newer models, again I am leaning towards Wishon but if you gave me a set of Cobras its on me to get them dialed in and I would game them. 

Regarding lie angles, the Cobras per their web page are the same : https://www.cobragolf.com/king-f7-one-length-iron-set . All have a 62.5 lie angle in stock configuration. Maybe they do believe in different stock lie angles vs what Wishon stock lie angles are but again, most that game Wishon get their specs fitted and dialed in up front -- loft/lie and length at a minimum. 

[Timmytoe]

11 hours ago, aerospace_ray said:

So I prefer Wishon for several reasons but I would have no issue gaming Cobra (and I have in the past). I am a seasoned club maker and decent with fitting (will never claim expert status as technologies evolve so fast and I can not keep up with it, so I trust fitting myself/family but would not fit anyone else knowing there are more modern/qualified people with current technologies that can do better--I digress ). 

To point, imo the Wishon Sterlings "feel" better (very subjective I know). I have decades of experience with Wishon and trust his knowledge/design methodologies. Wishon would most likely expect you to be fit and his models adjusted to your final specs. In other words you might order stock spec (loft and lie) Sterlings and even choose a length based on static fitting say 37.5" but the loft and lie angles may need to be adjusted. With the Cobra's I see its a true one size fits all-- whatever the length you choose, the loft and lie are Cobra standards. Now I am sure Cobra or any qualified fitter can dial the Cobra's in to your true required specs I just don't think that is the business model for Cobra. So I don't see Wishon and Cobra the same. One is meant to be custom fit for all fitting variables and one is off the shelf and you have to request any special loft/lie tweaks. I have hit both and the newer models, again I am leaning towards Wishon but if you gave me a set of Cobras its on me to get them dialed in and I would game them. 

Regarding lie angles, the Cobras per their web page are the same : https://www.cobragolf.com/king-f7-one-length-iron-set . All have a 62.5 lie angle in stock configuration. Maybe they do believe in different stock lie angles vs what Wishon stock lie angles are but again, most that game Wishon get their specs fitted and dialed in up front -- loft/lie and length at a minimum. 

Ah yes it's actually the newer f9 cobra which have different lie angles [i read that on wrx anyway] 

[aerospace_ray]

5 hours ago, Timmytoe said:

Ah yes it's actually the newer f9 cobra which have different lie angles [i read that on wrx anyway] 

While I am intent on fitting my on lie angle specs, the following quote is from MGS T. Covey in comments section that I find interesting regarding the F9's.

"How does this relate to lie angles? The answer lies in shaft deflection and droop. The faster you swing a club, the more the toe drops down. As a result, to achieve repeatable dynamic lie angles at impact, static lie angles need to be different (because, as it turns out, head speeds aren’t the same). I should point out that this concept isn’t unique to ONE Length. Wedge manufacturers (like Vokey for example) have moved to lie angles flatter than the standard progression would call for. Why? Less force with the wedge swing creates less relative droop. Going flatter helps normalize impact lie. (source: T.Covey -- https://mygolfspy.com/2019-cobra-f9-speedback-irons/)"

Sure if someone reached out to Cobra customer service they may can gather more information. Makes me want to get get some numbers/test with various One Length models. Thanks for pointing this out and posting.

[Wedgie]

While I am intent on fitting my on lie angle specs, the following quote is from MGS T. Covey in comments section that I find interesting regarding the F9's.
"How does this relate to lie angles? The answer lies in shaft deflection and droop. The faster you swing a club, the more the toe drops down. As a result, to achieve repeatable dynamic lie angles at impact, static lie angles need to be different (because, as it turns out, head speeds aren’t the same). I should point out that this concept isn’t unique to ONE Length. Wedge manufacturers (like Vokey for example) have moved to lie angles flatter than the standard progression would call for. Why? Less force with the wedge swing creates less relative droop. Going flatter helps normalize impact lie. (source: T.Covey -- https://mygolfspy.com/2019-cobra-f9-speedback-irons/)"
Sure if someone reached out to Cobra customer service they may can gather more information. Makes me want to get get some numbers/test with various One Length models. Thanks for pointing this out and posting.

And Wishon would argue that the droop on a 7 iron doesn’t justify such large lie angle gaps. As someone who has a set of Edels and cobra F9 ones lengths I agree with Wishon. Same lie angle is the way to go to hit it straight most consistently:


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[Familygolf2021]

I was just fitted with wishon eq1-nx. Single length wishon. Amazing. The 4 hybrid will make you fall in love. I been playing wishon irons for 10years. Didn’t think I needed new ones. Then I tried them. Wow. Science. Love it. Can’t fight more accurate better clubs that feel better.