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Wedge Shafts Advice


Alf. S
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In my irons Srixon Z565s I have Nippon NS Pro 850GH Stiff shafts that have been a bit of a revelation, my smash factor has gone up by about 0.1 giving me about 10 yds extra in length. They gap pretty well too. 

For my wedges I have Cleveland RTX 3 52' and 56' and have really struggled to get the gapping right. My Z565  AW goes 120yds with a smash factor of 1.2 the 52 and 56 I struggle to get  smash of 1. The shafts in the wedges are NS Pro Modus Wedge 115. I moved back to an old wedge set original RTX wedges that have Dynamic Gold Wedge shafts and I seem to be getting better numbers but still not great.

So my question is should I try the NS Pro 850GH shafts in the Wedges or is there another solution, the NS Pro Modus Wedge 105 is lighter and higher torque than the 115 could this help? 

Before you ask I was fitted for the wedges but not very well!

WIMB

Driver Callaway Epic 10.5' Fujikura Stiff

3W Callaway Epic 15' Fujikura Stiff

3-AW Srixon Z565 Nippon Stiff

52', 56' Cleveland RTX 585 Wedges

Putter Taylormade Rosa Daytona

Bags 2017 Callaway Org14 Cart bag or 2018 Srixon Z start Carry bag 

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WIMB

Driver Callaway Epic 10.5' Fujikura Stiff

3W Callaway Epic 15' Fujikura Stiff

3-AW Srixon Z565 Nippon Stiff

52', 56' Cleveland RTX 585 Wedges

Putter Taylormade Rosa Daytona

Bags 2017 Callaway Org14 Cart bag or 2018 Srixon Z start Carry bag 

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Not sure what you want?

The Tour average smash for wedges in the 54-56 degree range is 0.93 - that's pro level with a premium ball. So your 1.0 for a 52 wedge (?) is about right. Since you didn't reveal the actual yardages gaps either...what are you looking for? Other than getting properly fit?

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1 hour ago, jaskanski said:

Not sure what you want?

The Tour average smash for wedges in the 54-56 degree range is 0.93 - that's pro level with a premium ball. So your 1.0 for a 52 wedge (?) is about right. Since you didn't reveal the actual yardages gaps either...what are you looking for? Other than getting properly fit?

With a full shot with the 52 I'm looking to get 110yds and 100yds for the 56. Currently i get about 102yds with the 52 and 95yds with the 56. Don't really chip with the 52, mostly 56 round the green and from sand. I have a 60 with the same shaft but only comes out when the greens are quick.

The problem I have is that I pretty well gapped down to 120yds and I also have 3/4 shots that covers 90 to 60yds. I can hit a 3/4 9i 100yds but it is a lot flatter trajectory. If I really stand on the wedges I can get the yardages but this can result in a pull. Bottom line is I'm not getting in the scoring zone with 110yds to 90yds shots.

I'm thinking about either using the lighter Modus shaft or NS Pro 850GH into the 52 and see if I get better performance. 

If this is a stupid idea or someone has better advice then I'm open to suggestions,

WIMB

Driver Callaway Epic 10.5' Fujikura Stiff

3W Callaway Epic 15' Fujikura Stiff

3-AW Srixon Z565 Nippon Stiff

52', 56' Cleveland RTX 585 Wedges

Putter Taylormade Rosa Daytona

Bags 2017 Callaway Org14 Cart bag or 2018 Srixon Z start Carry bag 

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I would say get fitted properly.

I'm not really sure why you would want a 52 degree wedge when your set AW is 50 degrees anyway - and quite high in bounce too. Throwing a blanket statement like "the shaft is the problem' sounds daft if you haven't eliminated any other obvious variables. But if you want to experiment on your own - crack on.

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I don’t like either of your choices for wedges.  Hit both and both have low kick points and in wedges, that is a no no.  Smash factor just hoists the ball higher, not farther...unless you have a tail wind.  If you like the Nippon in your irons, the cut weight in stiff is about 97 grams and you will want a cut/finish weight of 107-110 grams in your wedges and mid/high kick point max out your distance.  The best wedge shaft for you is going to be a stiff flex 115 gram KBS C Taper #7 iron shaft.  IMHO...ha,ha

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Smash factor is an often debated metric simply meant to convey efficiency of strike via ball speed/club speed. It doesn't say anything at all about why you might have a gapping issue. Could the shaft play a role? Sure, but what does launch angle, spin, apex height, and angle of descent look like? What about actual ball speed or club speed? How about angle of attack? 

As @jaskanski mentions above, your AW is 50-degrees (unless adjusted). It seems somewhat unfathomable that the gap between a 50-degree wedge and a 52-degree wedge would be too large.

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Driver: Mizuno ST190 9.5* Fujikura Atmos Blue 5S
Fairway Wood: Mizuno ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S
Hybrid: Mizuno CLK 17* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB
Irons: Bridgestone J40 CB (3-PW) Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100
Wedges: Bridgestone Tour B XW-1 54* & 58* Nippon Modus 3 105
Putter: Cleveland Huntington Beach SOFT Premier 4 34"
Ball: Maxfli Tour
Bag: 2017 Titleist Players 5 Stand Bag

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29 minutes ago, jaskanski said:

I would say get fitted properly.

I'm not really sure why you would want a 52 degree wedge when your set AW is 50 degrees anyway - and quite high in bounce too. Throwing a blanket statement like "the shaft is the problem' sounds daft if you haven't eliminated any other obvious variables. But if you want to experiment on your own - crack on.

The AW has been strengthened to 48' to get it to gap to the PW.

WIMB

Driver Callaway Epic 10.5' Fujikura Stiff

3W Callaway Epic 15' Fujikura Stiff

3-AW Srixon Z565 Nippon Stiff

52', 56' Cleveland RTX 585 Wedges

Putter Taylormade Rosa Daytona

Bags 2017 Callaway Org14 Cart bag or 2018 Srixon Z start Carry bag 

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In Scotland at the moment we are in lockdown due to COVID so travel is limited and fitting sessions are not allowed at the moment and probably until mid March. We are allowed on the range and to play in 2 balls only so the data I have been pulling is from the range with my Flightscope Mevo. I would rather be settled with my bag for the new season so waiting for a fitting session might cut it fine. I'm a tinkerer and I do have a spare set of wedges in my garage.

 

WIMB

Driver Callaway Epic 10.5' Fujikura Stiff

3W Callaway Epic 15' Fujikura Stiff

3-AW Srixon Z565 Nippon Stiff

52', 56' Cleveland RTX 585 Wedges

Putter Taylormade Rosa Daytona

Bags 2017 Callaway Org14 Cart bag or 2018 Srixon Z start Carry bag 

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48 minutes ago, Alf. S said:

The AW has been strengthened to 48' to get it to gap to the PW.

Looking at the stock lofts, it appears the set was designed with the intention of increasing gaps between clubs the farther down you go (i.e. 5-degree gap between 9i/PW and 6-degree gap between PW/AW). This was most likely thought to make it easier to transition into specialty wedges. While I understand you're desire to get perfect gaps between all of your clubs, it rarely works that way in the real world and you may have shot yourself in the foot by strengthening the AW 2*.

Were you fit for any of these clubs? What - besides wanting a specific loft gap between clubs - led to the decision to strengthen your AW? Did you know at the time how far you hit the 52 & 56?

 

Driver: Mizuno ST190 9.5* Fujikura Atmos Blue 5S
Fairway Wood: Mizuno ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S
Hybrid: Mizuno CLK 17* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB
Irons: Bridgestone J40 CB (3-PW) Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100
Wedges: Bridgestone Tour B XW-1 54* & 58* Nippon Modus 3 105
Putter: Cleveland Huntington Beach SOFT Premier 4 34"
Ball: Maxfli Tour
Bag: 2017 Titleist Players 5 Stand Bag

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48 minutes ago, TR1PTIK said:

Looking at the stock lofts, it appears the set was designed with the intention of increasing gaps between clubs the farther down you go (i.e. 5-degree gap between 9i/PW and 6-degree gap between PW/AW). This was most likely thought to make it easier to transition into specialty wedges. While I understand you're desire to get perfect gaps between all of your clubs, it rarely works that way in the real world and you may have shot yourself in the foot by strengthening the AW 2*.

Were you fit for any of these clubs? What - besides wanting a specific loft gap between clubs - led to the decision to strengthen your AW? Did you know at the time how far you hit the 52 & 56?

 

I'm perfectly happy with the gapping on the irons and they are pretty much get ~10 yds between them , like I said I was fitted for them, then the gapping was checked once I played with them for a while and hence the decision to strengthen the AW. 

I've played with 52, 56 and 60 degree wedges for the last 15 years and looking back may have always had the issue. I probably been kidding myself on that I hit them 110 and 100yds, this is probably the top of the range.  The reason I went for the AW in the Z565s was because from PW to 52 was 20 yds (or more). 

When fitted for the Z565s the difference between the other shafts and the NS Pro was marked and I put this down to the difference in weight 91g c.f. 130g for DG and 101g for KBS

Having tried the old  52 RTX with the Dynamic gold Wedge shaft vs the 52 RTX 3 with the Modus shaft there seems to be a difference that I'm putting down to the shaft of a couple of yards hence the call for advice. 

 

WIMB

Driver Callaway Epic 10.5' Fujikura Stiff

3W Callaway Epic 15' Fujikura Stiff

3-AW Srixon Z565 Nippon Stiff

52', 56' Cleveland RTX 585 Wedges

Putter Taylormade Rosa Daytona

Bags 2017 Callaway Org14 Cart bag or 2018 Srixon Z start Carry bag 

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1 hour ago, Alf. S said:

I'm perfectly happy with the gapping on the irons and they are pretty much get ~10 yds between them , like I said I was fitted for them, then the gapping was checked once I played with them for a while and hence the decision to strengthen the AW. 

I've played with 52, 56 and 60 degree wedges for the last 15 years and looking back may have always had the issue. I probably been kidding myself on that I hit them 110 and 100yds, this is probably the top of the range.  The reason I went for the AW in the Z565s was because from PW to 52 was 20 yds (or more). 

When fitted for the Z565s the difference between the other shafts and the NS Pro was marked and I put this down to the difference in weight 91g c.f. 130g for DG and 101g for KBS

Having tried the old  52 RTX with the Dynamic gold Wedge shaft vs the 52 RTX 3 with the Modus shaft there seems to be a difference that I'm putting down to the shaft of a couple of yards hence the call for advice. 

 

The additional information helps clear up a good bit. The last fitting related question I'd ask is, did you hit the wedges at all during that fitting to verify gapping was appropriate?

I ask because I've done a full bag gapping analysis before and it makes it pretty clear where the issues are, and if the fitter is doing their job, they can help you get everything in check by adjusting lofts appropriately.

Taking the information you've provided, you're PW travels approximately 130 yards and AW currently goes 120 yards w/ 48*. Now, say you had left the AW at 50*. Every 1 degree of loft is equal to roughly 2-3 yards of distance which would put your AW at ~115 yards creating a 15-yard gap. Moving from AW to your 52, would be 13 yards difference. Thus, much more evenly gapped between clubs. 

It's not the 10-yard gap that everyone so desperately wants, but a good hard look at actual stock yardage for any handful of pros will reveal that their gaps vary as well. My personal recommendation (and likely your least expensive solution) is to simply get the AW bent back to 50*. If you really NEED to have your gaps closer than ~15 yards, I'd suggest maybe doing 49* AW and bending the 52* to 51*. I don't personally think there's any good reason to mess with the 56* in that scenario.

One last word about all of this because I don't want to discredit the importance of shaft. Could it make a difference? Absolutely. I don't think you'd see a 8-10 yard jump though. Unless you're extremely unhappy with the trajectory or really struggle to even make good contact with your wedges, I'd leave the shafts alone. We aren't pros. We don't get free gear, and we certainly don't get paid for the gear we do play.

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Driver: Mizuno ST190 9.5* Fujikura Atmos Blue 5S
Fairway Wood: Mizuno ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S
Hybrid: Mizuno CLK 17* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB
Irons: Bridgestone J40 CB (3-PW) Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100
Wedges: Bridgestone Tour B XW-1 54* & 58* Nippon Modus 3 105
Putter: Cleveland Huntington Beach SOFT Premier 4 34"
Ball: Maxfli Tour
Bag: 2017 Titleist Players 5 Stand Bag

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On 2/1/2021 at 11:17 AM, Alf. S said:

In my irons Srixon Z565s I have Nippon NS Pro 850GH Stiff shafts that have been a bit of a revelation, my smash factor has gone up by about 0.1 giving me about 10 yds extra in length. They gap pretty well too. 

For my wedges I have Cleveland RTX 3 52' and 56' and have really struggled to get the gapping right. My Z565  AW goes 120yds with a smash factor of 1.2 the 52 and 56 I struggle to get  smash of 1. The shafts in the wedges are NS Pro Modus Wedge 115. I moved back to an old wedge set original RTX wedges that have Dynamic Gold Wedge shafts and I seem to be getting better numbers but still not great.

So my question is should I try the NS Pro 850GH shafts in the Wedges or is there another solution, the NS Pro Modus Wedge 105 is lighter and higher torque than the 115 could this help? 

Before you ask I was fitted for the wedges but not very well!

I recommend you to see a fitter, smash factor doesn’t mean anything in wedges and the avg of the tour is .90 with them.

the goal should be to find a shaft probably not as stiff as your irons because the goal with the wedges should be the workability and be able to hit different distances, not hitting them far.

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WITB:

Taylormade M5 Driver, fujikura motore x F1 7X.

ping G410 3 wood, mitsubishi tensei Orange 60g X.

3 Iron p770, true temper x100.

4-9 Iron Taylormade MC, true temper x100.

46,50,54,58 SM8 Vokey wedges,true temper S400 shaft.

Sik putter Pro.

 

 

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