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NPG Episode 70: Are Fittings Going Virtual?


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Duration: 00:48:39

In-person club fittings were already troublesome, and that was before a global pandemic. Are virtual fittings the wave of the future?

0:30 - Putter testing check-in
1:23 - Are in-person club fittings a thing of the past?
24:13 - What to look for in a virtual fitting
30:32 - A better way to handicap with TheGrint
43:14 - What would you change about golf?

TheGrint: https://mygolfspy.com/who-or-what-is-thegrint/

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I can foresee this episode getting more than a few people fired up!!

Just tap it in.  Lil' taparoo.

:honma: TW747 460 10.5° Vizard stiff

:adams-small: 4 Hybrid

:Sub70: 699 5-Aw; KBS Tour-V 90 Stiff

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:taylormade-small: Spider Interactive

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The only problem with virtual is you don't get turf interaction and looks at address like you guys described. I do think data fittings are the way to do it to get 5 selection and then go test them. If people could do that, and then get to test them on the course for $50, that is they way to do it

 

Follow my journey to enjoying golf and going low

Driver: :callaway-small:   Epic Max LS :Fuji:Ventus Black 6x 44.5" 

3wHL: :callaway-small: Rogue ST LS 75x  Tensei AV Blue w/ xlink

7w: :callaway-small:Apex UW 21* MMT 80S

DI: Caley 01X 18* with KBS PGH Stiff plus 95g

4-AW: th.jpg.d6e2abdaeb04f007fd259c979f389de6.jpg  0211  with KBS Tour Stiff 2.5* up 3/4" long, Soft stepped, MOI matched

Wedges     :cleveland-small: Zipcore 

Putter: L.A.B. Directed Force 2.1 69*/35" in blue 

 

Ball:  TBD

Shot Tracking: :ShotScope:

Bag: Vessel VLX 2.0

Grip: Lamkin Sonar +  Midsize 

My Reviews:

Caley 01X Driving Iron Review 2023

Max Swing Speed Training and Speed Progress: Current Speed 120 in the MGS Speed Challenge (updated 3/15/23)

 :1332069271_TommyArmour:TAIII #2  Review here: TAIII Impact #2 Putter )

 :cleveland-small: Zipcore Tour Rack 54/full and 58/mid (review here)

th.jpg.d6e2abdaeb04f007fd259c979f389de6.jpg  0211  2019 Unofficial Review

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, rbsiedsc said:

The only problem with virtual is you don't get turf interaction and looks at address like you guys described. I do think data fittings are the way to do it to get 5 selection and then go test them. If people could do that, and then get to test them on the course for $50, that is they way to do it

 

I would rather trade off turf interaction with real, appropriate and unbiased data.  I'm a big supporter of keeping things "old school", but I love the idea of some A.I. giving me real analytics.

Just tap it in.  Lil' taparoo.

:honma: TW747 460 10.5° Vizard stiff

:adams-small: 4 Hybrid

:Sub70: 699 5-Aw; KBS Tour-V 90 Stiff

:cleveland-small: Tour Action 58°

:taylormade-small: Spider Interactive

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I agree with a lot of this fitting talk. It does feel like the industry is lagging, and the other big problem is finding a reliable fitter. 

However, the industry needs to advance when it comes to the questions you get when it comes to a fitting before we can go all virtual. Swing speed, attack angle, club path, etc. 

Even TrueGolfFit asks attack angle and swing speed, but you have to go somewhere to find that information. It is not readily available.

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So with TrueFit, how do you input your on course data (if you can) because it seems pretty subjective on how you swing the club (since we are all honest or knowledgeable of our own swings :p)

Follow my journey to enjoying golf and going low

Driver: :callaway-small:   Epic Max LS :Fuji:Ventus Black 6x 44.5" 

3wHL: :callaway-small: Rogue ST LS 75x  Tensei AV Blue w/ xlink

7w: :callaway-small:Apex UW 21* MMT 80S

DI: Caley 01X 18* with KBS PGH Stiff plus 95g

4-AW: th.jpg.d6e2abdaeb04f007fd259c979f389de6.jpg  0211  with KBS Tour Stiff 2.5* up 3/4" long, Soft stepped, MOI matched

Wedges     :cleveland-small: Zipcore 

Putter: L.A.B. Directed Force 2.1 69*/35" in blue 

 

Ball:  TBD

Shot Tracking: :ShotScope:

Bag: Vessel VLX 2.0

Grip: Lamkin Sonar +  Midsize 

My Reviews:

Caley 01X Driving Iron Review 2023

Max Swing Speed Training and Speed Progress: Current Speed 120 in the MGS Speed Challenge (updated 3/15/23)

 :1332069271_TommyArmour:TAIII #2  Review here: TAIII Impact #2 Putter )

 :cleveland-small: Zipcore Tour Rack 54/full and 58/mid (review here)

th.jpg.d6e2abdaeb04f007fd259c979f389de6.jpg  0211  2019 Unofficial Review

 

 

 

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This one hit all the points GREAT!  I absolutely loved the discussion of music on the course!  Flashed back to a tourny this year where my partner and I rolled up to the first tee with a low tone music playing in the cart.  You could NOT hear it (Can't stress that enough)on the tee, that's how low it was, and the older guy on the tee made a b-line right to me so he could exclaim "I'm easily distracted.. Turn that SH*T off..."  🤣  While I laughed in his face momentarily, I calmly pointed out that one closer step towards me golf might be the last thing he EVER had to worry about again.. BUT, to be respectful we turned it off. 

I think that's definitely indicative though of one of Golf's biggest problems.  I'm all for rules, decorum, etc.. BUT... When it comes to the game and how it's conducted and or people act it's far to stuck on itself.  The evolution of the "sport" / "game" just is miles behind and really needs to understand you chase away more people than you attract by acting elitest and firmly stuck in stuffyville. 

Now don't get wrong, I'm not party guy or crazy on the course but if two people in a cart can agree that music should be played at a low tone so that no one else is affected then anyone outside of that cart should just worry about themselves, and by all means stay the hell away from our cart.  Simple. 

Great show once again!  Content king of shows imo. 

BNewt51

Golf Addict.... Father of 4.  Pennsylvania Golfer 

Driver: Callaway Paradym Triple Diamond - Ventus Red X :callaway-small:

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So I can see myself utilizing more and more computer based fits, but I feel like the result is only as good as the inputs you throw at it.

I would like to see a system (maybe True Golf Fit could handle this):

  • Swing Speed
  • Attack Angle
  • Face Angle
  • Impact Tendency (toe vs heel and high vs low)
  • CURRENT SETUP
  • FEEL PREFERENCES

I think that True Golf Fit could easily handle all but the last two.  It would be up to the consumer to know their key data points and that likely needs to come from renting sim time on a quality unit like GC Quad and Trackman.  

I haven't seen a single online tool that asks what you're currently using, and I feel like that would be important if you're going to show my how many yards or accuracy I can gain.  

Lastly feel preferences can be easily handled with a person fitting you and reacting to your feedback.  This could be handled with a few more questions for sure like past equipment that was liked and worked well, etc.  

I might pony up and give TRUEgolffit a try, then go demo the driver and see how well it does!

 

Either way, I fully expect virtual fittings to get more and more comprehensive, then with perhaps a top 3 us golfers can go and demo them all and decide for ourselves.  

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3 hours ago, IDontGiveAchuck said:

I can foresee this episode getting more than a few people fired up!!

Idk about 'fired up' but I did go ahead and try the $9 TrueGolfFit driver fitting and well... I'm less than impressed. Both of the options it recommended for me are unavailable. and since it doesn't have any additional information about what makes these drivers better (or what a larger list of options might look like) I can't make an informed decision, which suggests I should... go to an in-person fitter 😕

 

569717499_Screenshot_2021-02-01TRUEGolfFit.png.420e92162d5bfa668069fc59c838d6a7.png

1263331927_Screenshot_2021-02-01TRUEGolfFit(1).png.7062b4cf9b5a42af3f5c764b71d36aae.png

Driver: :srixon-small: ZX5 LS MkII 9.5* (@ 9.0*) with 46.5" Ventus Blue 6X
3-wood: :taylormade-small: SIM 15* with Diamana Limited 75S
5-wood: :cobra-small: RADspeed 18.5* with Motore X F3 60S
2i: :srixon-small: ZX with SteelFiber i95 Stiff

4hy: :titleist-small: TS3 23* with Tensei AV Blue 70 S
4i-7i :srixon-small: ZX7, 8i-PW Z-Forged, Modus3 Tour 120 S
50*, 55* :cleveland-small: RTX 6 Modus3 Tour 125
60* :cleveland-small: RTX Full Face ZipCore DG Spinner S400
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:wilson_staff_small: D7 Forged 3i-PW, KBS Tour-V 110S - Official Review
:titelist-small: Blind Ball Test (Ball #3 vs Ball #4) - Unofficial Review
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49 minutes ago, greggarner said:

Idk about 'fired up' but I did go ahead and try the $9 TrueGolfFit driver fitting and well... I'm less than impressed. Both of the options it recommended for me are unavailable. and since it doesn't have any additional information about what makes these drivers better (or what a larger list of options might look like) I can't make an informed decision, which suggests I should... go to an in-person fitter 😕

 

569717499_Screenshot_2021-02-01TRUEGolfFit.png.420e92162d5bfa668069fc59c838d6a7.png

1263331927_Screenshot_2021-02-01TRUEGolfFit(1).png.7062b4cf9b5a42af3f5c764b71d36aae.png

Same here. It just didn't work for me - but then I guess we're all different so we need lots of options. 

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I could see a mix of the two fitting experiences......maybe have the camera system at the fitting location record metrics in your swing and then have the ability for it to apply those metrics to a database of clubs, shafts and adjustments and then give the fitter 3-4 options to try out.

Kind of like the shaft optimizer but for the whole process


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:cobra-small: King F7 4 Hybrid Graphite Designs Tour AD-HY 95 Shaft

PXG 0211 DC 5-PW Mitsubishi MMT 80 Shafts

:cleveland-small: RTX ZIPCORE 50*,54*,58* UST Mamiya Recoil 95 Shafts

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1 hour ago, tony@CIC said:

Same here. It just didn't work for me - but then I guess we're all different so we need lots of options. 

Ya i got the same PXG driver (ugh) and the Ping G410 which I can't customize on 2nd swing to a different shaft. Maybe the new offerings are not in there yet?

Follow my journey to enjoying golf and going low

Driver: :callaway-small:   Epic Max LS :Fuji:Ventus Black 6x 44.5" 

3wHL: :callaway-small: Rogue ST LS 75x  Tensei AV Blue w/ xlink

7w: :callaway-small:Apex UW 21* MMT 80S

DI: Caley 01X 18* with KBS PGH Stiff plus 95g

4-AW: th.jpg.d6e2abdaeb04f007fd259c979f389de6.jpg  0211  with KBS Tour Stiff 2.5* up 3/4" long, Soft stepped, MOI matched

Wedges     :cleveland-small: Zipcore 

Putter: L.A.B. Directed Force 2.1 69*/35" in blue 

 

Ball:  TBD

Shot Tracking: :ShotScope:

Bag: Vessel VLX 2.0

Grip: Lamkin Sonar +  Midsize 

My Reviews:

Caley 01X Driving Iron Review 2023

Max Swing Speed Training and Speed Progress: Current Speed 120 in the MGS Speed Challenge (updated 3/15/23)

 :1332069271_TommyArmour:TAIII #2  Review here: TAIII Impact #2 Putter )

 :cleveland-small: Zipcore Tour Rack 54/full and 58/mid (review here)

th.jpg.d6e2abdaeb04f007fd259c979f389de6.jpg  0211  2019 Unofficial Review

 

 

 

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I’d like some of whatever Adam is smoking here
Unless ShotScope releases V4 next year fully equipped with Trackman and a Mizuno shaft optimizer, online fittings aren’t passing real fittings any time soon. The technology is just not there.


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51 minutes ago, TBT said:

I could see a mix of the two fitting experiences......maybe have the camera system at the fitting location record metrics in your swing and then have the ability for it to apply those metrics to a database of clubs, shafts and adjustments and then give the fitter 3-4 options to try out.

Kind of like the shaft optimizer but for the whole process


Sent from my iPad using MyGolfSpy

This is my thought as well. Some sort of system like the Mizuno shaft optimizer but that applies to clubheads, balls, everything. I am sure someone could engineer it, and I am sure it will happen eventually, no idea when. 

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I agree with many others that the combination would be the ideal scenario for me. Also I would have to imagine a company like Foresight if they were able to partner with their fitters and have them tagging data appropriately for club used and shaft and other data points that combined with full club and ball day could quickly develop a data set that could produce some decent results and even apply strokes gained to it all. As someone in the data analytics/data science field and golf nut it sounds like a very interesting project to be sure. Heck even the MSG testing for drivers would produce a pretty good data set.

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13 hours ago, rbsiedsc said:

Maybe the new offerings are not in there yet?

This is a more structural problem with online fittings like TrueGolfFit. If the database only works on released equipment, it necessarily means you aren't going to get the latest release, since there haven't been 10,000 shots tracked with it. Additionally (and somewhat conversely), unless there's some way to cull the list when products are no longer available, it's (at best) an interesting exercise to expand your horizons beyond the Big Five. In my example, getting "fit" for a Wilson Cortex is interesting but not relevant unless I happen to find it at a bargain somewhere with just the right shaft in it.

As I wondered originally, having some context as to why these drivers and shafts would be good fits for me would help me evaluate comparable products. As the database grows, statistical correlations could be developed and it isn't much of a stretch to extrapolate specific variables as more/less beneficial based on the fitting questions asked. For example, since the PXG I was fit for is no longer available, could I get the new 0811 X Prototype? Or is it a completely different driver? And since the Cortex is 3 years old and difficult to customize (currently available on Wilson's site only in a 12-degree Atmos Red Senior Flex...), could I get a D7? Or the new D9?

I don't disagree with Adam's point that you don't want to go to multiple doctors to get several different opinions on what disease you might have, but just in the same way that doctors give a more accurate diagnosis than WebMD, it's helpful to have a trained professional who has a deeper understanding of what does(n't) work than someone just putting in their best guesses and seeing what the database returns.

Driver: :srixon-small: ZX5 LS MkII 9.5* (@ 9.0*) with 46.5" Ventus Blue 6X
3-wood: :taylormade-small: SIM 15* with Diamana Limited 75S
5-wood: :cobra-small: RADspeed 18.5* with Motore X F3 60S
2i: :srixon-small: ZX with SteelFiber i95 Stiff

4hy: :titleist-small: TS3 23* with Tensei AV Blue 70 S
4i-7i :srixon-small: ZX7, 8i-PW Z-Forged, Modus3 Tour 120 S
50*, 55* :cleveland-small: RTX 6 Modus3 Tour 125
60* :cleveland-small: RTX Full Face ZipCore DG Spinner S400
Putter: :callaway-small: Toulon Chicago with a :garsen: Quad Tour or :cleveland-small: HB SOFT Milled 10.5S with UST All-in

Ball: :callaway-small: Chrome Tour (but I might still have some :titleist-small: Left Dashes hanging around)
Bag: :srixon-small: Ltd Edition Tartan, blue/green/yellow

Using :ShotScope: to keep track of my shots

Tested:
:wilson_staff_small: D7 Forged 3i-PW, KBS Tour-V 110S - Official Review
:titelist-small: Blind Ball Test (Ball #3 vs Ball #4) - Unofficial Review
:ShotScope:
 V3 GPS Watch + Tags - Official Review
:OnCore:
 Vero X2 - Official Review

The Stack System - Official Review

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This is a more structural problem with online fittings like TrueGolfFit. If the database only works on released equipment, it necessarily means you aren't going to get the latest release, since there haven't been 10,000 shots tracked with it. Additionally (and somewhat conversely), unless there's some way to cull the list when products are no longer available, it's (at best) an interesting exercise to expand your horizons beyond the Big Five. In my example, getting "fit" for a Wilson Cortex is interesting but not relevant unless I happen to find it at a bargain somewhere with just the right shaft in it.
As I wondered originally, having some context as to why these drivers and shafts would be good fits for me would help me evaluate comparable products. As the database grows, statistical correlations could be developed and it isn't much of a stretch to extrapolate specific variables as more/less beneficial based on the fitting questions asked. For example, since the PXG I was fit for is no longer available, could I get the new 0811 X Prototype? Or is it a completely different driver? And since the Cortex is 3 years old and difficult to customize (currently available on Wilson's site only in a 12-degree Atmos Red Senior Flex...), could I get a D7? Or the new D9?
I don't disagree with Adam's point that you don't want to go to multiple doctors to get several different opinions on what disease you might have, but just in the same way that doctors give a more accurate diagnosis than WebMD, it's helpful to have a trained professional who has a deeper understanding of what does(n't) work than someone just putting in their best guesses and seeing what the database returns.

This is why we need an updated 2021 driver COG report. You can take those recommendations and see if anything is in that area and see what types of drivers should “fit” you best.

Have they added shaft recommendations? I think at one point there was talk of that, but I don’t remember if it actually happened.

EDIT: I can see that they have shaft there too

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:callaway-small: Epic Max LS 10.5 - Motore X F3 6X | :cobra-small: Speedzone 5-wood - Ventus Blue 8S | :titelist-small: TSi3 20* Hybrid - KBS Proto 85S

:edel-golf-1: SMS Pro 4-PW - Steelfiber i110S | :taylormade-small: MG3 Raw Black 50.09, 54.11, 58.11 - DG TI S200

:EVNROLL: ER2B | :titelist-small: Pro V1x | :918457628_PrecisionPro: NX9 Slope | Jones Trouper R | :CaddyTek: CaddyLite EZ v8

 

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As the panel pointed out, there are more bad fitters out there (paid and free) than good ones, so fittings can be useless. I got fit for a new driver shaft at Club Champion last year, and it didn't work out at all, that $400+ shaft ($150 the fitting itself) is gathering dust in my closet.

More data would be great, and TrueGolfFit may be a step in the right direction, although that only does drivers so far and reviews have been mixed.

I used the Mizuno Shaft Analyzer to my last set of irons, and that has served me well. They've upgraded that device with the Shaft Optimizer 3D, and that will be my first step next time I'm in the market for new irons if not a full set.

YMMV

*** while I was listening to the episode, I wondered why club makers who offer a variety of standard shafts don't just publish exactly which shaft is best suited to the various swing characteristics - in table form or other.

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On 2/2/2021 at 7:49 AM, Middler said:

*** while I was listening to the episode, I wondered why club makers who offer a variety of standard shafts don't just publish exactly which shaft is best suited to the various swing characteristics - in table form or other.

I suspect this would be confusing to most consumers. The ones that really want this information are likely to research the individual shaft options themselves.

Driver: :callaway-small: Rogue ST 🔷🔷🔷 LS, 10.5* w/ Fujikura Ventus Black 6s
Woods: :taylormade-small: M2 Tour 3W HL/16.5* w/ Mitsubishi Kuro Kage Silver 70g
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13 hours ago, Ryan M said:

I suspect this would be confusing to most consumers. The ones that really want this information are likely to research the individual shaft options themselves.

it's a pretty dedicated consumer who is willing to wade through this

This brings up an interesting point though: what does the Venn diagram look like of "people who care enough to research shaft options" and "people who won't get fit for golf clubs"? I would imagine there's not much overlap there... If you don't value getting fit, do you really care that much about bend profiles, kick points, etc?

Driver: :srixon-small: ZX5 LS MkII 9.5* (@ 9.0*) with 46.5" Ventus Blue 6X
3-wood: :taylormade-small: SIM 15* with Diamana Limited 75S
5-wood: :cobra-small: RADspeed 18.5* with Motore X F3 60S
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60* :cleveland-small: RTX Full Face ZipCore DG Spinner S400
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6 minutes ago, greggarner said:

it's a pretty dedicated consumer who is willing to wade through this

This brings up an interesting point though: what does the Venn diagram look like of "people who care enough to research shaft options" and "people who won't get fit for golf clubs"? I would imagine there's not much overlap there... If you don't value getting fit, do you really care that much about bend profiles, kick points, etc?

Wait...everyone doesn’t wade through those?! Awkward...🤣

All about bend profiles!

Some great points in the thread. I can see an inevitability where a computer program replaces a fitter at a golf shop. It uses camera s/gcquad to see characteristics of your swing and spits out options. Based on how you hit those, it delivers a recommendation. 

This will work for those who are ok with a good fitting. It will not replace a master fitter, like Ian from TXG. The amount of knowledge he has and his ability to use it CREATIVELY is what would separate man from machine. However, based on the amount of data they use at TXG, I would guess Ian would still use this type of program as an assistant to what he’s doing. 

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This is an interesting topic as it kind of relates to what I do at work. My work responsibility is looking at how my company can improve software testing practices. Market literature points to automation as the answer. A test script runs and at the end it checks the result against some expectation. This isn’t testing. Some people may accept that as testing. But Testing requires human interaction to observe, interact, experiment, experiment, and make Decisions that automation cannot do.

The electronic fitting is a nice check for a starting point, but to be a good fitting. It is a check against parameters and based on the parameters you get an answer. All well and good, but when you actually get the club in your hands you react to the looks and feel which change the parameters that you started with resulting in a new fit. My putting instructor indicated that often when a player got a putter recommendation from Puttlab and the player then went through the test with the recommendation it provided a new recommendation.

Tools can get you to a certain point. For the majority of golfers that may be good enough. But to optimize you will have to engage humans.

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Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
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35 minutes ago, cnosil said:

This is an interesting topic as it kind of relates to what I do at work. My work responsibility is looking at how my company can improve software testing practices. Market literature points to automation as the answer. A test script runs and at the end it checks the result against some expectation. This isn’t testing. Some people may accept that as testing. But Testing requires human interaction to observe, interact, experiment, experiment, and make Decisions that automation cannot do.

The electronic fitting is a nice check for a starting point, but to be a good fitting. It is a check against parameters and based on the parameters you get an answer. All well and good, but when you actually get the club in your hands you react to the looks and feel which change the parameters that you started with resulting in a new fit. My putting instructor indicated that often when a player got a putter recommendation from Puttlab and the player then went through the test with the recommendation it provided a new recommendation.

Tools can get you to a certain point. For the majority of golfers that may be good enough. But to optimize you will have to engage humans.

100% this.... a machine/algorithm cannot react to human emotion....No matter how much A.I. you add to it.

Humans aren't robots and robots cannot fit humans.

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I'm totally for using data to help make an informed choice about any purchase I make but when it comes to golf equipment you need to get your info from a machine at a store or from your pro. 

So I wouldn't necessarily pay extra to get a recommendation online if I'm already paying to use a launch monitor. Should I be able to collate that info myself at home without trackman etc I would definitely use online fitting to make a purchase. Until then its face to face for me.

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21 hours ago, cnosil said:

The electronic fitting is a nice check for a starting point, but to be a good fitting. It is a check against parameters and based on the parameters you get an answer. All well and good, but when you actually get the club in your hands you react to the looks and feel which change the parameters that you started with resulting in a new fit.

This also makes me think about the Titleist Virtual Ball Fitting. I was sharing how my current gamer (Srixon Z-Star XV, which feels pretty firm) is great in every arena except putting and I often struggle to get a feel for it and keep hitting it well past the hole or over-correcting and leaving it well short. The fitter, David, mentioned that putting is where every ball fitting should start because off a launch monitor, there is no significant difference in balls and putting is the most consequential aspect of the game. However, when I'm playing a ball that feels softer than my XV, I have a tendency to leave wedge/finesse shots short. Sound, feel, all of it is preference and squarely between your ears.

Point being: if I just pick a ball based on an algorithm of playing characteristics and don't actually test it, I've neglected that golf is a fundamentally human endeavor and we have to be part of the equation. When we boil down our swings to (essentially) a series of robotic swing parameters and leave out the unquantified 'feel' elements, the algorithm doesn't account for how we will change our own swing parameters.

Driver: :srixon-small: ZX5 LS MkII 9.5* (@ 9.0*) with 46.5" Ventus Blue 6X
3-wood: :taylormade-small: SIM 15* with Diamana Limited 75S
5-wood: :cobra-small: RADspeed 18.5* with Motore X F3 60S
2i: :srixon-small: ZX with SteelFiber i95 Stiff

4hy: :titleist-small: TS3 23* with Tensei AV Blue 70 S
4i-7i :srixon-small: ZX7, 8i-PW Z-Forged, Modus3 Tour 120 S
50*, 55* :cleveland-small: RTX 6 Modus3 Tour 125
60* :cleveland-small: RTX Full Face ZipCore DG Spinner S400
Putter: :callaway-small: Toulon Chicago with a :garsen: Quad Tour or :cleveland-small: HB SOFT Milled 10.5S with UST All-in

Ball: :callaway-small: Chrome Tour (but I might still have some :titleist-small: Left Dashes hanging around)
Bag: :srixon-small: Ltd Edition Tartan, blue/green/yellow

Using :ShotScope: to keep track of my shots

Tested:
:wilson_staff_small: D7 Forged 3i-PW, KBS Tour-V 110S - Official Review
:titelist-small: Blind Ball Test (Ball #3 vs Ball #4) - Unofficial Review
:ShotScope:
 V3 GPS Watch + Tags - Official Review
:OnCore:
 Vero X2 - Official Review

The Stack System - Official Review

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On 2/1/2021 at 7:29 PM, ejgaudette said:

Also I would have to imagine a company like Foresight if they were able to partner with their fitters and have them tagging data appropriately for club used and shaft and other data points that combined with full club and ball day could quickly develop a data set that could produce some decent results and even apply strokes gained to it all.

This would definitely make the virtual fitting approach more robust.  I'm pretty certain this is how PING's Web-Fit tool works; based on gobs of fitting data that get's the majority of players 90% there.  Presuming one can accurately answer the questions it asks, I'll bet the results are what the fitter would come up with in pretty short order.  But as stated already, AI/database centric models simply cannot resolve the look at address, feel, turf interaction, etc., aspects. 

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As the previous post - golf is such a game of feel, that the data algorithms might give you a start point or help you narrow down your choices, but ultimately it is what the golfer feels out on the course that matters. And then, you have a whole bunch of variables that cannot be simulated on the launch monitors that you experience on the course that can (and will) throw even the best fit clubs into the wind (pun intended).

If you look at the pro's who have honed their swing and feel to such a level, yet you see them being so fickle about clubs and shafts and what have you (Rickies Rev33s come to mind, as does Roses brief affair with Honma). If there was ever a candidate for data driven fitting it would be at the pro level since they have such a consistent swing that is way more repeatable than all of us hobby golfers.

That being said, I don't think golfers (regardless of skill level) are given enough credit about their ability to adapt to the conditions on the day they play so getting equipment that they feel confident with is critical so I believe it will still be physical trial and error testing/fitting that will give the best results that makes the golfer happy.

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1 hour ago, fixyurdivot said:

This would definitely make the virtual fitting approach more robust.  I'm pretty certain this is how PING's Web-Fit tool works; based on gobs of fitting data that get's the majority of players 90% there.  Presuming one can accurately answer the questions it asks, I'll bet the results are what the fitter would come up with in pretty short order.  But as stated already, AI/database centric models simply cannot resolve the look at address, feel, turf interaction, etc., aspects. 

Exactly and then if Foresight sent out a algorithm as part of its software that after a customer hits say 10 balls with their club it will give the top 3 recommendations and then you can try from there to remove that human entry issue. As others have mentioned the only issue would be getting new clubs in the data sets for recommendations, but a few months in it should work, and may be able to match similar data to previous models and say if the model produces this old club then try this new one it has worked for similar swing data. Of course no one is asking me to build this but would be a very fun project.

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I don’t know how many companies or fitters will pay for this type of software. Everyone has a price point. Maybe companies that have chains such as a club champion, but I find it difficult to see smaller companies paying to have the high end launch monitors, quality fitters, and then this software. I could see it one or the other, going with the software but having an associate to navigate the options versus a master fitter. Unfortunately if it can be done cheaper, many companies will go in that direction.

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