NPG Episode 70: Are Fittings Going Virtual?

[CCRyder]

I am gonna throw out something I haven't heard talked about yet... so you can mail me demo clubs.check, I can send swing vids over V1 etc.check., how about a fitter or major OEM send me a loaner MEVO or other launch monitor, I go out and use it on the course or range. Send you video as well. Send you game data, send back the MEVO and then we can have a real virtual fitting. Then for the dedicated player they can still go in to a brick and mortar with now a much more narrowed down fitting. This could even go as far as Zappos does with the shoes and really start mailing clubs/shafts back and forth.... ? 

[HardcoreLooper]

On 2/8/2021 at 9:51 PM, CCRyder said:

how about a fitter or major OEM send me a loaner MEVO or other launch monitor, I go out and use it on the course or range

How about ranges loaning/renting LMs?  Or ranges installing Toptracer Range?  There's ways to make this kind of thing happen and provide additional revenue streams for range owners.  A fitting package for the LM and premium balls.

People seem to be giving quite a bit of weight to look and feel.  Ranking your favorite looking clubs would help train an AI model to pick clubs that will look good to you.  And if you believe that feel is really sound, you can do the same thing with feel as well.  Why not build that into the model?

It's easy to say that an AI model isn't as good as the world's best fitters.  It doesn't need to be.  If it's better than the average employee in a big box store, it's providing value.  Elite fitters will still have full schedules because (as Tony said), people want that experience.  This isn't really for them. 

Dick's/Golf Galaxy should be all over this.  

[GolfSpy BOS]

9 hours ago, HardcoreLooper said:

How about ranges loaning/renting LMs?  Or ranges installing Toptracer Range?  There's ways to make this kind of thing happen and provide additional revenue streams for range owners.  A fitting package for the LM and premium balls.

My cousin owns a driving range... I poked his brain about doing the Toptracer Range stuff... he told me that the costs and licensing fee's are insane.  But I'd love to see one around here!

[MaxEntropy]

Given the number of options available for a fitting (thinking specifically for a driver) - heads, shafts, lofts, weights and locations..., I would argue that there is actually very little chance anyone walks away from a fitting being fully optimized, whether that's distance, dispersion, or both. The best we could hope for, IMO, is "better". The statistics of the "experiment" dictate this. In order to be truly optimized, you are potentially talking about 100's of configurations* and however many swings with each configuration to really optimize. There is not enough time and we don't have the stamina for that kind of effort. There are shortcuts that can be taken by using a properly designed experiment, but there is also risk associated with the shortcuts that you are missing the real answer. The statistics are the same whether you are being fitted by a human or a computer. A good fitter can combine their knowledge and experience to eliminate some configurations, but their is still a risk that your "best" configuration falls outside their experience. Could a computer learn these experiences? I have very little understanding of AI/machine learning, but I assume they could.

I think there will always be a market for a quality human fitter, but I also suspect that there is a place for computers, too. I could imagine places like Dick's not really wanting to pay for a quality fitter, but can pay for a computer and a lower-paid employee to swap heads, shafts, etc.

* For a simple example, let's say you were interested in exploring 5 heads, 5 shafts, and 3 lofts. Doing the full experiment means 5 X 5 X 3 = 75 configurations to really figure out which is best, neglecting any statistical shortcuts. In reality, how many heads does a place like Club Champion carry? How many shafts are available? The number of available configurations increases very rapidly.

[HardcoreLooper]

On 2/10/2021 at 9:27 AM, B.Boston said:

My cousin owns a driving range... I poked his brain about doing the Toptracer Range stuff... he told me that the costs and licensing fee's are insane.  But I'd love to see one around here!

That's unfortunate about Toptracer Range.  A few Mevo + units might be more realistic.

[RickyBobby_PR]

On 2/9/2021 at 11:58 PM, HardcoreLooper said:

How about ranges loaning/renting LMs?

Second swing when not impacted by the current lockdowns rents bays for 30 mins at a time with a trackman. I think with most courses/ranges the cost of the trackman, foresight or flightscope is pretty high to have extra units around that aren’t being used by their teaching or fitting staff along with a mobile device of some sort to output the data.

[TBT]

That's unfortunate about Toptracer Range.  A few Mevo + units might be more realistic.

There is a top tracer range about 20 mins away from me, while it gives you some good data, it doesn’t show some needed things like spin numbers


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[CCRyder]

I have been thinking on this more and  it has struck me that as a walking golfer I rarely buy the cart when the fee is separate but, I would certainly consider adding a Mevo to my round for $20 so that I could gain data. For all the walkers out there this could be a way to re-capture some of that revenue. Although I understand walkers are the minority. I think also adding LM's at course is very scalable compared to the 40-80k for a seasonal full scale simulator. A course can start with one or two and see if they get rented. Particulalry 9 hole executive courses which are prone to practice rounds could see a decent amount of LM use.  For me $50 per hour at a near by course with a great simulator setup and atomosphere is just too much for an hour of data. More data means better fittings in the future.

I also really support fitters who provide Arccos or Shot Scope with the fitting so that they can track and see how the fit is going. I would require that of a fitter if I was ever to do a full scale boutique fitting of my whole bag. 

[GolfSpy BOS]

A PGASS opened up closer to me. They do offer 30 practice sessions on a GCHawk for $9.99. It’s the best deal I’ve seen around for simulator time. Something like that could be very valuable after a virtual fit.

[fixyurdivot]

On 2/13/2021 at 6:36 AM, B.Boston said:

A PGASS opened up closer to me. They do offer 30 practice sessions on a GCHawk for $9.99. It’s the best deal I’ve seen around for simulator time. Something like that could be very valuable after a virtual fit.

That's a crazy good deal...presuming you mean 30 sessions for $10.  How long is each practice session?  I could see this offering quickly overwhelming their capacity.

[GolfSpy BOS]

9 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

That's a crazy good deal...presuming you mean 30 sessions for $10.  How long is each practice session?  I could see this offering quickly overwhelming their capacity.

Sorry... 30 min session is $9.99. 

I want to say they were running a special for $99 giving you unlimited access to 30 min sessions for a year. 
 

Still a good deal! Cheapest sim around here goes for $36 an hour (and that’s the “member” rate). 

[fixyurdivot]

....resulting in folks waiting in line, lingering around all of the eye candy....

[GolfSpy BOS]

....resulting in folks waiting in line, lingering around all of the eye candy....

Exactly. [mention]Lacassem [/mention] and I went down did a practice session and then proceeded to hit several of the new drivers, putters, and browsed the whole store!

The temptation is very strong. Practice areas are in the BACK of the store too. So you walk by everything.

[pouetvl]

Marketing 101!

I think best fitting would be a best of both world, human AND computer. The Data never lie but a computer never have a  gut feeling either. Most options for electronic fittings would cost too much for what they can get in return. You need the best data possible to be able to fit and sadly lower cost equipement simply dont deliver for now

[amwolf90]

I signed up for a TM virtual fit as I saw they were doing free sessions. 

I also tried the TruGolfFit and was pretty underwhelmed to be honest. I emailed and go no response back, which was also disappointing. 

I might post my findings once I have the sessions.