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Planned 2030 Golf Ball Rollback


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584 members have voted

  1. 1. Are you in favor of the rollback?

    • Yes
      81
    • No
      400
    • Don't Care
      103
  2. 2. Do you watch or care about the PGA Tour and other professional Tours?

    • Yes
      529
    • No
      21
    • Don't Care
      34
  3. 3. Do you wish there was a Tour Only golf ball?

    • Yes
      200
    • No
      237
    • Don't Care
      147
  4. 4. Do you want to play all the same equipment like the pros play?

    • Yes
      215
    • No
      143
    • Don't Care
      226
  5. 5. Do you feel your game will be dramatically effected by the rollback in 2030?

    • Yes
      230
    • No
      240
    • Don't know
      114
  6. 6. Will loosing any distance take away significant enjoyment in golfing for you?

    • Yes
      300
    • No
      158
    • Probably not
      126
  7. 7. Would you quit golf because of the rollback?

    • Yes
      25
    • No
      559
  8. 8. Would you prefer bifurcation?

    • Yes
      268
    • No
      202
    • Don't Care
      114
  9. 9. Is this all too early and we need to wait and see what more will happen over the next few years?

    • Definitely
      261
    • No, this needs to be addressed now
      262
    • Don't care
      61

This poll is closed to new votes


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https://www.golfdigest.com/story/why-jack-nicklaus-in-his-prime-would-dominate-modern-day-golf-too

"Clearly, Nicklaus had a physical and length advantage over his competitors. But just how long would he have been with today’s equipment and technology? If you take Lee Trevino for his word: freakin’ far. “If Jack in his prime could have played the clubs and balls these guys are playing today, he would have hit that sumbitch 400 yards,” Trevino told Golf Digest in 2010, with characteristic color. “I’m dead serious.”

A search for a more scientific answer is hamstrung by a lack of data. There was no ShotLink in the 1960s or ’70s, and the first year the PGA Tour kept driving distance as an official stat was 1980. Luckily for us (and somewhat randomly) IBM did, for whatever reason, decide to measure driving distances for 11 tournaments in 1967, when Nicklaus was 27 and in his physical prime. The results, as uncovered by our Mike Johnson: Nicklaus averaged 276 yards, the longest on the PGA Tour. He was 4.5 percent longer than the average distance of 260.2. Extrapolate that 4.5 percent advantage to the 2018-’19 season, when the average was roughly 293.8 yards, and a player with Nicklaus’ advantage would have averaged 307 yards.

But there’s another relevant data point here, and it paints a slightly different picture. Nicklaus was 2.15 percent longer than the rest of the top 10, meaning there was a bit of a gap between he and the next-longest players. If we translate that advantage to last season, he’d have averaged 318.71 yards, which would have led the tour. So if we average those two figures—307 yards and 318.71 yards—we get 312.9 yards. That would have ranked fourth on tour last season, ahead of bombers like Dustin Johnson, Brooks Koepka, Tony Finau, Gary Woodland and so many more."

driving-distance-graphic-jack-80th.jpg

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9 minutes ago, LICC said:

Being long relative to others is a skill. Jack's length was a big advantage. Today, 20+ guys on Tour can overpower a normal Tour course with distance.

Yup, and those 20+ guys will further dominate the tour if the equipment is rolled back and the rest of the field loses distance too.  Again, the USGA tries to claim that this is about making other skills more important and determining outcome, but it is full of crap.

They are trying to protect old money courses

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6 minutes ago, cnosil said:


And at the end of the day so what?

So it is an inferior product to view as a golf fan who would like to see Tour players make strategic risk reward decisions, would like to see the variety of shots, and for course design be relevant.

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1 hour ago, LICC said:

Bad analogy. They added the three-point line when the game was being dominated too much by big men, and changed the game.

stick to golf...

https://www.usab.com/youth/news/2011/06/the-history-of-the-3-pointer.aspx

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2 minutes ago, jlukes said:

Yup, and those 20+ guys will further dominate the tour if the equipment is rolled back and the rest of the field loses distance too.  Again, the USGA tries to claim that this is about making other skills more important and determining outcome, but it is full of crap.

They are trying to protect old money courses

Those 20+ wouldn't dominate as much if they don't have the other skills that would be required and come into play with shorter distances overall.

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5 minutes ago, StrokerAce said:

Happy to correct you again:

It was also popularized by the American Basketball Association (ABA), which introduced it in its inaugural 1967–68 season.[6][7] ABA commissioner George Mikan stated that the three-pointer "would give the smaller player a chance to score and open up the defense to make the game more enjoyable for the fans".

3 minutes ago, jlukes said:

Ok you clearly don't understand strokes gained so I am done with this conversation. 

You clearly don't know how to correctly apply strokes gained to this analysis.

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So it is an inferior product to view as a golf fan who would like to see Tour players make strategic risk reward decisions, would like to see the variety of shots, and for course design be relevant.

In your opinion an inferior product.

Even with rollback players wouldn’t make the risk/reward decisions that you are hoping to see. Today’s player bases the decisions on math and the foundations of strokes gained. Tournament golf is not played with emotional decisions and risk/reward strategy.

If you want to see courses player with longer clubs into the greens watch the LPGA. I love watching the LPGA as they are amazing players and skillful with the longer clubs.

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This thread is BEYOND EXHAUSTING.

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2 minutes ago, cnosil said:


In your opinion an inferior product.

Even with rollback players wouldn’t make the risk/reward decisions that you are hoping to see. Today’s player bases the decisions on math and the foundations of strokes gained. Tournament golf is not played with emotional decisions and risk/reward strategy.

If you want to see courses player with longer clubs into the greens watch the LPGA. I love watching the LPGA as they are amazing players and skillful with the longer clubs.

The math and strokes gained analysis would change with a distance rollback. And with those changes, players would have to consider more strategic risk-reward decisions and have to play more types of shots.

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2 minutes ago, FrogginBullfish said:

This thread is BEYOND EXHAUSTING.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using MyGolfSpy mobile app
 

Or maybe just one participant... 🙄

I could have a better conversation with a brick wall.

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4 minutes ago, LICC said:

The math and strokes gained analysis would change with a distance rollback. And with those changes, players would have to consider more strategic risk-reward decisions and have to play more types of shots.

How?

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Most fans WANT to see long, soaring homeruns

Most fans WANT to see insanely powerful, majestic slam dunks

Most fans WANT to see slapshots from the blue line

.... and dare I say, most fans WANT to see golfers demolish a golf ball and hit it a long long long way.

 

That's what makes us fans; the athletic ability of these blessed few is awesome. 

I don't care what you call it, but please don't take that away.

 

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The math and strokes gained analysis would change with a distance rollback. And with those changes, players would have to consider more strategic risk-reward decisions and have to play more types of shots.

I think you should study the strategy of strokes gained. The risk/reward strategy your are thinking of doesn’t exist. Even if everyone was rolled back some yardage the shot selection process would be the same. There is too much money involved to take an unnecessary risk and end up with bad holes.

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3 minutes ago, StrokerAce said:

Most fans WANT to see long, soaring homeruns

Most fans WANT to see insanely powerful, majestic slam dunks

Most fans WANT to see slapshots from the blue line

.... and dare I say, most fans WANT to see golfers demolish a golf ball and hit it a long long long way.

 

That's what makes us fans; the athletic ability of these blessed few is awesome. 

I don't care what you call it, but please don't take that away.

 

So you favor MLB changing to metal bats?

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2 minutes ago, cnosil said:


I think you should study the strategy of strokes gained. The risk/reward strategy your are thinking of doesn’t exist. Even if everyone was rolled back some yardage the shot selection process would be the same. There is too much money involved to take an unnecessary risk and end up with bad holes.

When a distance rollback would bring a hazard in play that is not in play now, it would change the strokes gained analysis. When a driver now gets you to a close distance that is doesn't matter if you are in the rough or not, but a rollback would put you at a distance where it matters if you are in the rough or not, the strokes gained analysis would change.

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When a distance rollback would bring a hazard in play that is not in play now, it would change the strokes gained analysis. When a driver now gets you to a close distance that is doesn't matter if you are in the rough or not, but a rollback would put you at a distance where it matters if you are in the rough or not, the strokes gained analysis would change.

Yes it changes the numbers but doesn’t change the decision process. Being in the rough closer to the hole is better than being farther back and in the fairway. Assess you lie, determine target based on dispersion patterns, hit shot, repeat. Good players don’t challenge areas that could create significant penalties. The do hit shots outside of that pattern.

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12 minutes ago, LICC said:

So you favor MLB changing to metal bats?

clearly you have an issue with reading comprehension.... 

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So you favor MLB changing to metal bats?

Metal bats are a safety issue and not a distance issue.

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3 minutes ago, cnosil said:


Yes it changes the numbers but doesn’t change the decision process. Being in the rough closer to the hole is better than being farther back and in the fairway. Assess you lie, determine target based on dispersion patterns, hit shot, repeat. Good players don’t challenge areas that could create significant penalties. The do hit shots outside of that pattern.

No, being in the rough closer to the hole is not always better than being farther back in the fairway. It depends on the overall distance. And the decision making will vary. Is someone one stroke behind the leader with two holes to play? Should they take on the greater risk because if they play conservatively they will not make that birdie to catch the leader? How are they swinging on that particular day? Regardless of the strokes gained analysis, they may be off with their driver that day. Or their long irons. Strokes gained is data that is useful for making a decision, it is not a means to make every decision a robotic black and white answer.

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1 minute ago, LICC said:

Clearly you have an issue trying to make logical arguments.

...this is like having a discussion with my dog. 

we could cut and paste this entire thread into golfwrx and it would be right at home. 

here, though, it is completely out of place.

I'm out.... good luck Chris!

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3 minutes ago, StrokerAce said:

...this is like having a discussion with my dog. 

we could cut and paste this entire thread into golfwrx and it would be right at home. 

here, though, it is completely out of place.

I'm out.... good luck Chris!

It’s the same person that was saying the same thing on that forum 

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Jease I thought this thread was created last year with 9 pages.....Tuesday thats alot of content.

 

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No, being in the rough closer to the hole is not always better than being farther back in the fairway. It depends on the overall distance. And the decision making will vary. Is someone one stroke behind the leader with two holes to play? Should they take on the greater risk because if they play conservatively they will not make that birdie to catch the leader? How are they swinging on that particular day? Regardless of the strokes gained analysis, they may be off with their driver that day. Or their long irons. Strokes gained is data that is useful for making a decision, it is not a means to make every decision a robotic black and white answer.

100% disagree on this. This is not how top professional golfers play. Shotlink data doesn’t support the approach you describe.

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64 pages worth on wrx, if you're interested, with multiple comments by @LICC and it's the same exact commentary repeated here. 🤦‍♂️

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5 minutes ago, cnosil said:


100% disagree on this. This is not how top professional golfers play. Shotlink data doesn’t support the approach you describe.

In today's game there is less of this because the best strategy is usually to bomb it as far as they can and fly it on the green with a wedge. Roll back the distance and more strategic thought will be needed. 

Look at 13 or 15 at Augusta. Nowadays, everyone hits to the spot they want on the fairway to fly an iron on in 2. Now the may not all execute the tee shot, but their goal is all the same. No one is considering positioning for a lay-up and then trying to go up and down for a birdie. If they lay up it is because they hit a bad tee shot, and then they have to think whether to go for it or not.

Edited by LICC
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14 minutes ago, StrokerAce said:

64 pages worth on wrx, if you're interested, with multiple comments by @LICC and it's the same exact commentary repeated here. 🤦‍♂️

I get enough round debates at work don’t need it here too lol

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25 minutes ago, StrokerAce said:

64 pages worth on wrx, if you're interested, with multiple comments by @LICC and it's the same exact commentary repeated here. 🤦‍♂️

he must be fun at parties. 

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