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I feel like I do this ever couple of days, but I'll repeat myself.  There's nothing new.  From the 2020 release of the Conclusions:

"It is not currently intended to consider revising the overall specifications in a way that would produce substantial reductions in hitting distances at all levels of the game."

From the February 2021 release"

" It would not consider revising the overall specifications to produce substantial reductions in hitting distances at all levels of the game"

Now they DO list a few of the specific things they will review, but there is really NOTHING NEW!  We've had 10 pages of talk, sparked by a rather alarmist "Bifurcation Coming!" thread title, but there's no reason to get all atwitter.

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I'm sure we will hear all about the evil's of bifurcation shortly but I'm not in that camp.  I played baseball in High School and College at a very interesting time.  My senior year of High School was

What do you see the average being?  250 yards? How do you limit the equipment to maintain that average over time.  I personally think you are underestimating how people adapt to change to become more

I am in the wait and see corner on this. We already have some bifurcation within golf...one ball local rule, rangefinder usage, and tee boxes to name a couple. The biggest issue is that there rea

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45 minutes ago, LICC said:

Of course it will affect every pro. That is the point, isn't it? @cnosil was talking about non-pros who are trying to be pros who would be affected by having to adjust. That number is even more relatively miniscule than the pros.

The ones turning pro around the world is still going to be upwards of thousands across the ones trying it on mini tours til they can get onto a tour that has some sort of arrangement with the pga or euro tour. 
 

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16 minutes ago, LICC said:

As to whether distance is an issue in the sport, 17% of the “stakeholders” surveyed said it’s a major problem, while 31% called it a minor problem. And 36% said no problem, meaning 48% of respondents see it as some form of problem for the sport (Fig. 67).

Screen Shot 2020-02-08 at 10.05.00 AM.png

image-asset.png?format=1000w

 

From the site you got the graphe: The USGA and R&A’s “online attitudinal survey” received 67,862 responses from 115 countries over two months and while I’d urge reading the report, a few numbers stood out.

You have a lot more to account for it you want the number to be in the millions. 

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1 minute ago, cnosil said:

 

From the site you got the graphe: The USGA and R&A’s “online attitudinal survey” received 67,862 responses from 115 countries over two months and while I’d urge reading the report, a few numbers stood out.

You have a lot more to account for it you want the number to be in the millions. 

That is how surveys work. Conclusions about the views of millions are made based on a sample. 

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9 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

I feel like I do this ever couple of days, but I'll repeat myself.  There's nothing new.  From the 2020 release of the Conclusions:

"It is not currently intended to consider revising the overall specifications in a way that would produce substantial reductions in hitting distances at all levels of the game."

From the February 2021 release"

" It would not consider revising the overall specifications to produce substantial reductions in hitting distances at all levels of the game"

Now they DO list a few of the specific things they will review, but there is really NOTHING NEW!  We've had 10 pages of talk, sparked by a rather alarmist "Bifurcation Coming!" thread title, but there's no reason to get all atwitter.

The USGA and R&A announced a research proposal to cover the "potential use of a Local Rule that would specify the use of clubs and/or balls intended to result in shorter hitting distances. This would enable committees conducting competitions to stipulate whether such equipment should be used. It could be available at all levels of play and would also allow golfers playing outside of competition to choose for themselves."

You don't think this is a new development? Had they done this before?

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The USGA and R&A announced a research proposal to cover the "potential use of a Local Rule that would specify the use of clubs and/or balls intended to result in shorter hitting distances. This would enable committees conducting competitions to stipulate whether such equipment should be used. It could be available at all levels of play and would also allow golfers playing outside of competition to choose for themselves."
You don't think this is a new development? Had they done this before?

Local rules have been used for a long time. Two of the bigger ones are the tours one ball rule and use of distance measuring devices.
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That is how surveys work. Conclusions about the views of millions are made based on a sample. 

And those surveys aren’t always accurate and don’t necessarily state actual large scale opinions. Your statement should have said based on limited surveys about 1/3 of people think distance is a major problem.

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6 minutes ago, cnosil said:


And those surveys aren’t always accurate and don’t necessarily state actual large scale opinions. Your statement should have said based on limited surveys about 1/3 of people think distance is a major problem.

A 67000 person survey is a relatively large one. Firms make multimillion dollar decisions based on smaller surveys. 

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1 hour ago, LICC said:

The USGA and R&A announced a research proposal to cover the "potential use of a Local Rule that would specify the use of clubs and/or balls intended to result in shorter hitting distances. This would enable committees conducting competitions to stipulate whether such equipment should be used. It could be available at all levels of play and would also allow golfers playing outside of competition to choose for themselves."

You don't think this is a new development? Had they done this before?

That nearly identical wording appeared in the Conclusions to the Distance Insights Report just about 12 months ago.  I bet you could find a lengthy discussion about it starting then.  Its not new.

https://www.usga.org/content/dam/usga/pdf/2020/distance-insights/SOC-FINAL.pdf

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10 minutes ago, cnosil said:


Local rules have been used for a long time. Two of the bigger ones are the tours one ball rule and use of distance measuring devices.

When has a local rule ever been considered for the purpose of using distance limiting equipment? That is new. Indisputably new. And it is big news, as it was covered and highlighted by every major golf publication. 
 

Why do you have to try to disagree with anything I say? What is your problem? I pointed out what Golf Channel, Golf Digest, etc pointed out. If this was absolutely nothing then they all got it wrong too? It’s like you just want to argue with anything I say. 

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8 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

That nearly identical wording appeared in the Conclusions to the Distance Insights Report just about 12 months ago.  I bet you could find a lengthy discussion about it starting then.  Its not new.

https://www.usga.org/content/dam/usga/pdf/2020/distance-insights/SOC-FINAL.pdf

And they have now officially proposed the research and called for participants. The next step has been taken. Thus the reason it has been published as news by all the outlets. 

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2 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

I feel like I do this ever couple of days, but I'll repeat myself.  There's nothing new.  From the 2020 release of the Conclusions:

"It is not currently intended to consider revising the overall specifications in a way that would produce substantial reductions in hitting distances at all levels of the game."

From the February 2021 release"

" It would not consider revising the overall specifications to produce substantial reductions in hitting distances at all levels of the game"

Now they DO list a few of the specific things they will review, but there is really NOTHING NEW!  We've had 10 pages of talk, sparked by a rather alarmist "Bifurcation Coming!" thread title, but there's no reason to get all atwitter.

It seems odd they opted to state it that way... "at all levels of the game".  Unless I have grossly missed the basis of this whole subject, it is their concern about pro tour average driving distances.  Amateur distances have never been a basis of this subject - correct? Why not clearly state this and that any equipment changes will only affect professional level golf?  Maybe it's just me, but these generic, open ended statements ("it's not currently intended", etc.) leave lots of room for speculation and churn within the golfing community. 

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1 hour ago, LICC said:

Why do you have to try to disagree with anything I say? What is your problem? I pointed out what Golf Channel, Golf Digest, etc pointed out. If this was absolutely nothing then they all got it wrong too? It’s like you just want to argue with anything I say. 

Just as you are disagreeing with everything I and others have said about their not being a distance problem and potential impacts to the game.   My position nor your position is right or wrong.  No matter how much data or how many charts you present, it is simply an opinion about golf.   This topic is no different than dress codes, music on the course, manufacturer claims, etc.   ultimately the R&A and the USGA will make a decision and people will be happy and people won't be happy.    

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9 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Just as you are disagreeing with everything I and others have said about their not being a distance problem and potential impacts to the game.   My position nor your position is right or wrong.  No matter how much data or how many charts you present, it is simply an opinion about golf.   This topic is no different than dress codes, music on the course, manufacturer claims, etc.   ultimately the R&A and the USGA will make a decision and people will be happy and people won't be happy.    

I’ve posted at least once where I agreed with things you said. At this point you are just making yourself look foolish saying silly things to try to nitpick disagreement with any post I make. 

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Just checking in to see what's new since yesterday.......... nothing

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We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.”

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21 minutes ago, Kenny B said:

Just checking in to see what's new since yesterday.......... nothing

here ya go, Kenny. did you bring the cokes?

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On 2/3/2021 at 10:02 PM, cnosil said:

The boom was because of Tiger Woods.  Also,  if equipment was such a limitation,  why were long drive competitors able to do this:

  • 1990 – Frank Miller, 328 yards
  • 1991 – Art Sellinger, 326 yards
  • 1992 – Monte Scheinblum 329 yards
  • 1993 – Brian Pavlet, 336 yards
  • 1994 – Darryl Anderson, 345 yards
  • 1995 – Sean Fister, 362 yards
  • 1996 – Jason Zuback (🇨🇦Canada) 351 yards
  • 1997 – Jason Zuback (🇨🇦Canada) 412 yards
  • 1998 – Jason Zuback (🇨🇦Canada) 361 yards
  • 1999 – Jason Zuback (🇨🇦Canada) 376 yards
  • 2000 – Viktor Johansson (🇸🇪Sweden) 315 yards

Todays players would have the ability to accomplish those same distances if they were using clubs from the 90s because they swing faster than tour players from the 90s.  That is not an equipment thing but a physical ability thing.  

I do know the difference; you said longer, not a category.  A GW is longer than a SW; so a 1 club "reduction" is all you are looking for?

In your opinion they aren't complicated issues.  

In your opinion the Tour game has been degraded.  

Your last statement is really your problem statement and what you think needs to be fixed:  " The problem is that the Tour game has been degraded by the massive distance gains from equipment advances. I detailed how earlier. It’s still good to watch for golf fans, but it could be better."

I don't see the tour game as being degraded by massive distance gains.  How those gain were achieved is not important because people were able to exceed 400 yards with 90s equipment.   But I personally enjoy the state of the game and hope it doesn't change. 

Funny you posted the distances; turns out my new Xphlexxx shaft has all of the winning distances printed on it!!!

A6C33E9A-EBA6-4036-B178-6984155C4317.jpeg

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I wasn't going to say anything more to you but you've just crossed the line here by insulting another regular contributor on this site.

I find it fascinating how you take issue with cnosil disagreeing with you throughout this thread when the majority of this thread is you disagreeing with everyone holding a position against bifurcation or that distance isn't an issue.

I specifically stated early in the thread I didn't want to discuss this topic with you further after a couple posts and yet you continued to post disagreements to other comments I made. Frankly, some of your posts in this thread are just alarmingly inaccurate, but again I have no wish to debate the issue with you or anyone else for that matter.

I am merely addressing the fact that this is l, I believe the third time in this thread, that you have insulted a regular member of this forum for disagreeing with you.

I'm not sure what your goal in this thread has been but the reason this thread has been such a slog has been directly related to your actions throughout and I, for one, am tired of seeing this continue.

I’ve posted at least once where I agreed with things you said. At this point you are just making yourself look foolish saying silly things to try to nitpick disagreement with any post I make. 


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8 hours ago, FrogginBullfish said:

I wasn't going to say anything more to you but you've just crossed the line here by insulting another regular contributor on this site.

I find it fascinating how you take issue with cnosil disagreeing with you throughout this thread when the majority of this thread is you disagreeing with everyone holding a position against bifurcation or that distance isn't an issue.

I specifically stated early in the thread I didn't want to discuss this topic with you further after a couple posts and yet you continued to post disagreements to other comments I made. Frankly, some of your posts in this thread are just alarmingly inaccurate, but again I have no wish to debate the issue with you or anyone else for that matter.

I am merely addressing the fact that this is l, I believe the third time in this thread, that you have insulted a regular member of this forum for disagreeing with you.

I'm not sure what your goal in this thread has been but the reason this thread has been such a slog has been directly related to your actions throughout and I, for one, am tired of seeing this continue.

 


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I haven’t personally insulted anyone nor initiated any negative personal comment toward anyone. I’ve been attacked and insulted several times without provocation (called a fool, troll, lack reading comprehension). Go back and look, I’ve never gone after anyone. That said, I will respond, civilly, when someone attacks me. If you don’t like it, and only want to see comments that agree with whatever view you have, then don’t read it. 

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