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1 hour ago, DaveP043 said:

Exactly where does the Report say that most fans think decreasing distance would make pro golf more fun to watch?  Thats what you claimed.

Section 6.4.    There are survey results that 17% of people responded that distance is a major problem and 31% said it is a minor problem.   Although the entire survey had 67,000 responses (don't know how many answered each question) @LICC is stating that the majority of people want to rollback professional golf.  There are also millions that don't see it as a problem.  

Section 6.6   Based on Figure 73 people Geoff Shackelford stated: supported but a healthy number of respondents (29,448), shows that there “there is a low level of interest in the elite/professional game being dominated by any one element.”     The interpretation is that the current distance of PGA pros means golf is dominated by one element.  

 

 

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19 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Section 6.4.    There are survey results that 17% of people responded that distance is a major problem and 31% said it is a minor problem.   Although the entire survey had 67,000 responses (don't know how many answered each question) @LICC is stating that the majority of people want to rollback professional golf.  There are also millions that don't see it as a problem.  

Section 6.6   Based on Figure 73 people Geoff Shackelford stated: supported but a healthy number of respondents (29,448), shows that there “there is a low level of interest in the elite/professional game being dominated by any one element.”     The interpretation is that the current distance of PGA pros means golf is dominated by one element.  

I did see this, and noted that 67% of respondents said that distance is either not a problem, or a minor problem.  Viewed the other way, 48% say distance is at least a minor problem.  Its a matter of interpretation whether than means a most people think a roll-back will make viewing a tournament more enjoyable., as @LICC has claimed.

On 2/26/2021 at 2:06 PM, LICC said:

I've said it several times earlier. It would make the game more fun to watch for fans. .

Shackeford leaves out a portion of that sentence that you quoted:

"By and large, there is a low level of interest in the elite/professional game being dominated by any one element -- be it tee shots, long drives or putting."

Did he do that to reflect his personal preferences?  I haven't read his writing enough to know.

I absolutely agree, though, the emphasis on putting during telecasts makes for pretty boring golf to me.  If driving distance is decreased, creating longer shots to greens, we'll see LONGER putts, which inevitably leads to more two-putts.  More tap-ins doesn't sound more exciting to me.

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Shackelford is part of the group of the most vocal proponents for a rollback on Golf Twitter so I would absolutely say him cutting the quote is intentional to create a narrative to support his opinion.

 
Shackeford leaves out a portion of that sentence that you quoted:
"By and large, there is a low level of interest in the elite/professional game being dominated by any one element -- be it tee shots, long drives or putting."
Did he do that to reflect his personal preferences?  I haven't read his writing enough to know.
I absolutely agree, though, the emphasis on putting during telecasts makes for pretty boring golf to me.  If driving distance is decreased, creating longer shots to greens, we'll see LONGER putts, which inevitably leads to more two-putts.  More tap-ins doesn't sound more exciting to me.
image.gif.cbc5dcb8da9e864e6c9f964ebb88823b.gif


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7 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

 

I did see this, and noted that 67% of respondents said that distance is either not a problem, or a minor problem.  Viewed the other way, 48% say distance is at least a minor problem.  Its a matter of interpretation whether than means a most people think a roll-back will make viewing a tournament more enjoyable., as @LICC has claimed.

Shackeford leaves out a portion of that sentence that you quoted:

"By and large, there is a low level of interest in the elite/professional game being dominated by any one element -- be it tee shots, long drives or putting."

Did he do that to reflect his personal preferences?  I haven't read his writing enough to know.

I absolutely agree, though, the emphasis on putting during telecasts makes for pretty boring golf to me.  If driving distance is decreased, creating longer shots to greens, we'll see LONGER putts, which inevitably leads to more two-putts.  More tap-ins doesn't sound more exciting to me.

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You forgot this part- 

Results of UK fans to "Imagine you are watching golf 20 years in the future, what would you like to see?" For "Shots traveling further on the course?" the response was: 1% in favor, 26% don't mind, and 73% would not like this. The report notes that US data is similar. 

This is all from the USGA and R&A Distance Insights Report.

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9 hours ago, LICC said:

You forgot this part- 

Results of UK fans to "Imagine you are watching golf 20 years in the future, what would you like to see?" For "Shots traveling further on the course?" the response was: 1% in favor, 26% don't mind, and 73% would not like this. The report notes that US data is similar. 

This is all from the USGA and R&A Distance Insights Report.

Please, don't make us read the entire effing document, give us a page number or something to help.  I found it, but its in a chart, and can't be found using a simple search feature.  

Where does it indicate that fans want distance reduced?  It DOES say that additional distance is not desirable to most, and I've never argued against that viewpoint, but says absolutely nothing about reduced distances.  Its surprising, considering the bias that many felt was evident in the Distance Survey, that the USGA/R&A apparently didn't ask that particular question. I know I responded to the survey, but I don't remember any particular questions about reducing distance for the Pro tours.  For those who want to see more about the results of the survey, its here:

https://digitalarchives.usga.org/app/api/request/index.html#!/contents/9e1e8737c4734c2d962b1d8025c9a29d/name/Distance Insights Library

This particular bit of information is presented on page 76.

You're the one claiming that most fans would enjoy golf better if driving distance is reduced, you've still failed to provide anything to back it up. 

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49 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

Please, don't make us read the entire effing document, give us a page number or something to help.  I found it, but its in a chart, and can't be found using a simple search feature.  

Where does it indicate that fans want distance reduced?  It DOES say that additional distance is not desirable to most, and I've never argued against that viewpoint, but says absolutely nothing about reduced distances.  Its surprising, considering the bias that many felt was evident in the Distance Survey, that the USGA/R&A apparently didn't ask that particular question. I know I responded to the survey, but I don't remember any particular questions about reducing distance for the Pro tours.  For those who want to see more about the results of the survey, its here:

https://digitalarchives.usga.org/app/api/request/index.html#!/contents/9e1e8737c4734c2d962b1d8025c9a29d/name/Distance Insights Library

This particular bit of information is presented on page 76.

You're the one claiming that most fans would enjoy golf better if driving distance is reduced, you've still failed to provide anything to back it up. 

That is an awful long stretch if you think those survey results don’t support the view that a majority of fans think too much distance is an issue. 

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22 hours ago, LICC said:

That is an awful long stretch if you think those survey results don’t support the view that a majority of fans think too much distance is an issue. 

I think the words of the question speak for themselves.  I'm not interpreting them to mean anything other than exactly what they say.  The words say that a big majority do not want to see increasing distance on the pro tours.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Very interesting comments by McIlroy on the state of his game and what his issue is.... Chasing DeChambeau! I mentioned this about what pros were doing and it was dismissed. Well. Looks like some are chasing Bryson and the US Open was the visual they needed to take a stab at following suit.

 

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12 minutes ago, PMookie said:

Very interesting comments by McIlroy on the state of his game and what his issue is.... Chasing DeChambeau! I mentioned this about what pros were doing and it was dismissed. Well. Looks like some are chasing Bryson and the US Open was the visual they needed to take a stab at following suit.

 

3DDDA2E8-9930-4906-8D48-BE3FDE91BEB2.jpeg

He also mentioned Bryson's better than most ability to get out of thick rough and attributed part of that to his longer (one-length) short irons.  Do you think he or any of the other swing out of your socks contenders will add that missing component?  Many expected the one-length to catch fire but it hasn't.  I shake my head when BAD grabs an 8i for a 200 yard shot, but forget about his club lengths.  

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Very interesting comments by McIlroy on the state of his game and what his issue is.... Chasing DeChambeau! I mentioned this about what pros were doing and it was dismissed. Well. Looks like some are chasing Bryson and the US Open was the visual they needed to take a stab at following suit.
 
3DDDA2E8-9930-4906-8D48-BE3FDE91BEB2.jpeg.faad2cd1fd60dec019f1aca9b02ed881.jpeg

I’ve heard many pros talk about how Bryson is changing how they’re looking at the game. There will certainly be some that try to follow suit to some degree, but idk how many will be able to make it work. Rory, of anyone, could definitely make it work with his game. We’ve all seen how committed Bryson is and how much time/effort he’s put into it. Kevin Kisner said it best last year when asked about Bryson. He’s said the only way to stop a guy like him is to find him a wife and some kids!

Side note... People get lost in the swing speed and distance part, but at the end of the day, the guy is just out working everyone. When he’s on, his approach play is light out, and he’s out putting everyone. I heard someone last week talk about how he should be mentioned as one of the best ball strikers on tour. I’d argue, if Rory wants to be more like Bryson, he needs to work on his putting, not his driving.


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Not sure which commentator it was yesterday (Faldo I think) who suggested limiting tee height and drivers to no less than 10* was the solution. The question I have is "what is the target (yardage)?"  Solutions in search of a problem is bad enough but one in search of an undefined goal is worse.

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Not sure which commentator it was yesterday (Faldo I think) who suggested limiting tee height and drivers to no less than 10* was the solution. The question I have is "what is the target (yardage)?"  Solutions in search of a problem is bad enough but one in search of an undefined goal is worse.

I saw Ian Poulters Instagram last year talking about loft limits on drivers. I love Ian but that’s utterly ridiculous. What makes anyone think that would stop Bryson? He could literally abandon driver completely and play his longer 3 wood off the ground and would still be one of the best off of the tee. His advantage is in his speed and ball striking ability. That can’t be taken away.


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Bryson in his journey realized he needed to be better balanced to go with the speed. He added size to help be balanced and generate force, he worked on his swing which is why he’s pretty accurate with his drives...commentators have talked about this aspect of what he’s done.

Chasing speed without being able to control the body and the swing will lead to trouble...see Luke Donald, Smylie Kaufman and Spieth.

As good as Rory’s swing is he has to make some compensations in the down swing to prevent from getting too stuck. A change in timing of his swing will make this issue more prevalent and lead to what we’ve seen with his swing and game being out of sync 

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This might be a bad take idk. My only worry here is for those pros that already don’t hit it as far. The distance dudes will still be hitting it that much further than the shorter hitters and thus have less club into the green. I know that sounds like simply the difference between golfers, like the difference between power hitters and contact hitters in baseball, but I want to see good wedge and approach play be rewarded not punished. No doubt bifurcation wouldn’t be the worst thing in golf but it needs to be done in a way that still highlights the skills needed to be an elite golfer. Just my .02


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1 hour ago, HeathS16 said:

This might be a bad take idk. My only worry here is for those pros that already don’t hit it as far. The distance dudes will still be hitting it that much further than the shorter hitters and thus have less club into the green. I know that sounds like simply the difference between golfers, like the difference between power hitters and contact hitters in baseball, but I want to see good wedge and approach play be rewarded not punished. No doubt bifurcation wouldn’t be the worst thing in golf but it needs to be done in a way that still highlights the skills needed to be an elite golfer. Just my .02


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And this is exactly why I ask the question above.  What is the magic average distance number they are trying to get too?

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3 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

He also mentioned Bryson's better than most ability to get out of thick rough and attributed part of that to his longer (one-length) short irons.  Do you think he or any of the other swing out of your socks contenders will add that missing component?  Many expected the one-length to catch fire but it hasn't.  I shake my head when BAD grabs an 8i for a 200 yard shot, but forget about his club lengths.  

In theory, the irons are all gapped just like a regular set, so he’s not hitting an iron 200 because his are longer, necessarily, it could be just the additional swing speed. The whole idea of one length is the have the same distances, just have clubs that don’t require a different swing/address/stance, etc. Is the longer shaft helping in the rough? I can see that, but the wedges still hit the ball a normal tour pro distance. 

 

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3 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

Not sure which commentator it was yesterday (Faldo I think) who suggested limiting tee height and drivers to no less than 10* was the solution. The question I have is "what is the target (yardage)?"  Solutions in search of a problem is bad enough but one in search of an undefined goal is worse.

Yeah, they brought up a 1” max tee height, no more than 57* on a wedge, etc. Like I said before about Faldo, he took advantage of technology and moved from persimmon to metal, multi-layered balls, graphite shafts in woods, etc. It was fine for him to use the advanced tech of the day, but not now. Drives me crazy.

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And this is exactly why I ask the question above.  What is the magic average distance number they are trying to get too?


That’s what I don’t get either. Is it purely distance that is the issue? Are there no other options in course design/setup other than lengthening the course to combat bombers? I’m just not sure that simply rolling back the ball is the right way to go. Like I said before as long as it’s done in a way that keeps everyone competitive I’m all for it but it needs to be done responsibly.


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That’s what I don’t get either. Is it purely distance that is the issue? Are there no other options in course design/setup other than lengthening the course to combat bombers? I’m just not sure that simply rolling back the ball is the right way to go. Like I said before as long as it’s done in a way that keeps everyone competitive I’m all for it but it needs to be done responsibly.


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The problem with changing course design and setup is that the people in charge of course design and setup don’t want to change. They are the loudest banging the roll back drum. They are also some of the richest and most powerful people in golf. They are the ones applying the pressure to “do something” about distance. It’s quite the coincidence that as he offers up these recommendations, Mike Davis has one foot out the door as he is starting his own architecture firm [emoji848]


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