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Bifurcation coming!


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6 minutes ago, revkev said:

I can't imagine spending $50 a course to maybe hole one additional putt a month - I fully understand why a pro would want this because 1 or 2 holed putts in 4 days is huge money - but for me or anyone else on the course in a casual setting this could only do more harm than good IMO.

Oy, I might have been a bit conservative, I just looked at the Strackaline website, their greens only books seem to run $97.

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 3/20/2021 at 2:01 PM, fixyurdivot said:

Welcome to the forum.  Some good points in your reply.  Specific to this question, cutting the grass longer through the driving landing areas will reduce rollout, which is often cited as abnormal to what we mortals typically see, costs nothing, and can be cut to normal height after the tournament. Grass cut height and limiting tee height are two changes that can be made that can be done without too much churn.

Personally, I'm not convinced there is need to do anything - although I do find the more recent bomb and wedge tour format to be a bit less interesting to me.  The USGA/R&A needs to specify what their target (acceptable) average distance is... otherwise the report is just a wheelbarrow full of interesting data.

Interesting comments by Rory this week - he is changing his swing because current equipment makes it too hard for him to hit a draw, which was his regular shot shape with driver. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Interesting comments from Bryson. He is getting stronger, the strongest he has ever been, and working out but not seeing increases in distance ...

 

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I mentioned in the PGA Championship thread but worth stating here. Phil’s amazing win combined with Tiger’s 2019 Masters victory shows that today’s players are no more athletically superior to the players of the 1990s. 

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20 hours ago, LICC said:

I mentioned in the PGA Championship thread but worth stating here. Phil’s amazing win combined with Tiger’s 2019 Masters victory shows that today’s players are no more athletically superior to the players of the 1990s. 

I am not sure I agree completely with this. There are lots of ways to measure that. Phil showed a creativity that many of todays tour pros do not have. This course for sure rewarded that creativity and athletic ability to pull it off. It punished the guys the have grooved that knuckle ball fade that has become the shot shape of choice.

 

But there are many weeks that the ability to hit the same ball repeatedly with consistency is the winning formula. I would be willing to bet that the US open at Torrey will play to a much different set of athletic ability. 

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Posted (edited)

To the argument that athletes are superior to 30 years ago ...

https://www.si.com/mlb/2021/06/04/sticky-stuff-is-the-new-steroids-daily-cover

@Chip Strokes“I think that a good portion of the increased velocity is because guys can throw pitches at 100% all the time,” he says. “They can rear back and literally throw with everything they've got and still have a reasonable amount of control because of the sticky stuff. I think if the ball feels a little slick, your mechanics have got to be a little better; you’ve got to stay within your means a little bit more.”

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4 hours ago, LICC said:

To the argument that athletes are superior to 30 years ago ...

https://www.si.com/mlb/2021/06/04/sticky-stuff-is-the-new-steroids-daily-cover

@Chip Strokes“I think that a good portion of the increased velocity is because guys can throw pitches at 100% all the time,” he says. “They can rear back and literally throw with everything they've got and still have a reasonable amount of control because of the sticky stuff. I think if the ball feels a little slick, your mechanics have got to be a little better; you’ve got to stay within your means a little bit more.”

we don’t agree. we won’t agree. i won’t change your mind and you won’t change mine. 

please don’t quote me anymore. i don’t have any further interest in conversing with you. 

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16 minutes ago, Chip Strokes said:

we don’t agree. we won’t agree. i won’t change your mind and you won’t change mine. 

please don’t quote me anymore. i don’t have any further interest in conversing with you. 

You keep getting sucked in lol

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1 minute ago, Lacassem said:

You keep getting sucked in lol

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4 hours ago, LICC said:

To the argument that athletes are superior to 30 years ago ...

https://www.si.com/mlb/2021/06/04/sticky-stuff-is-the-new-steroids-daily-cover

@Chip Strokes“I think that a good portion of the increased velocity is because guys can throw pitches at 100% all the time,” he says. “They can rear back and literally throw with everything they've got and still have a reasonable amount of control because of the sticky stuff. I think if the ball feels a little slick, your mechanics have got to be a little better; you’ve got to stay within your means a little bit more.”

What is interesting about that quote is the fact that control has left the game. More walks & HBP than ever before. And there is plenty of evidence that says athletes are better now than ever before. 

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8 minutes ago, THEZIPR23 said:

What is interesting about that quote is the fact that control has left the game. More walks & HBP than ever before. And there is plenty of evidence that says athletes are better now than ever before. 

It’s so tough to compare to because it’s apples and oranges. So many differences now (and in all sports). But as a whole looking strictly at fitness/Strength etc it’s pretty clear that athletes these days are far superior in that aspect.

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10 minutes ago, Lacassem said:

It’s so tough to compare to because it’s apples and oranges. So many differences now (and in all sports). But as a whole looking strictly at fitness/Strength etc it’s pretty clear that athletes these days are far superior in that aspect.

Comparing generations is a no win situation. But to say that humans haven't evolved and gotten better is some kind of delusion. 

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55 minutes ago, THEZIPR23 said:

What is interesting about that quote is the fact that control has left the game. More walks & HBP than ever before. And there is plenty of evidence that says athletes are better now than ever before. 

Actually no, the evidence doesn't show that at all:

 

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Dog Tree GIF
Rather then saying yes or no they are or are not in a black and white sense I will ask this and I am not sure how much this has to do with the actual topic of bifurcation, but could it be more sport dependent? I say this because in curling (yes a more personal example) since its introduction into the olympics and with a lot more money involved players have truly become athletes. A focus on not only mental, but physical traits and ability have increased significantly and its very easy to tell the difference between curlers from early 2000's to now just in appearance.

Golf I personally believe is similar. Not say before they were not fit or capable years ago, but the build of the typical modern day player has certainly changed. Golf will always be a sport with all body types will be seen and all sorts will also have success. I do think physically fitness is more valued now then before... that or back in the 90's and such their clothing was just that bad with the baggy pants there was no way to tell who was in good shape? haha

Side note as well, many members would be surprised at the similarities between golf and curling in terms of the paths they have followed, gap in skill between elite and club members, evolution of the game, performance of equipment impacting the game and so on. 

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@DaveP043 Mike Whan, USGA CEO, in Golf Digest last week:

For the men’s professional game, do you need to limit the distance players are hitting it?

If we’re talking about the men’s professional game, I’d be surprised if people don’t believe that some degree of reining in wouldn’t be good for the game long-term. I haven’t had those conversations with everybody yet, but I will. I’ve read the Distance Insights study, but I don’t know if the need for change really trickles down to other levels of the game. I question if we need change for the average player. I’m still trying to understand why bifurcation scares everybody as much as it does. I’m not really sure why.

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3 minutes ago, LICC said:

@DaveP043 Mike Whan, USGA CEO, in Golf Digest last week:

For the men’s professional game, do you need to limit the distance players are hitting it?

If we’re talking about the men’s professional game, I’d be surprised if people don’t believe that some degree of reining in wouldn’t be good for the game long-term. I haven’t had those conversations with everybody yet, but I will. I’ve read the Distance Insights study, but I don’t know if the need for change really trickles down to other levels of the game. I question if we need change for the average player. I’m still trying to understand why bifurcation scares everybody as much as it does. I’m not really sure why.

Ok, and....?  

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2 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

Ok, and....?  

And there is another tremendously important figure in the game who believes the distance gains of professionals is an issue that needs addressing.

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9 minutes ago, LICC said:

And there is another tremendously important figure in the game who believes the distance gains of professionals is an issue that needs addressing.

And I don't.  But read what Whan said, "some degree of reining in".  He said nothing about decreasing distance, it sounds like "reining in" could just as likely mean an effort to limit future distance gains.  And the USGA and R&A have been very clear, they are continuing to explore MANY ways to address distance gains.  That MIGHT include formulating a Local Rule that could effectively mean bifurcation.  And of course that assumes that some organizations would actually USE the local rule, and that manufacturers would choose to make equipment for what will undoubtedly be a very limited market.  I'm happy to wait to see what they come up with.  Its still way too premature to say "bifurcation is coming", just as it was 4 months ago when this thread was started.

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