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Bifurcation coming!


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2 hours ago, Shapotomous said:

I just learned recently the one ball rule included color.  No changing from white to yellow even with the same model ball during a round.  I guess they believe color has an effect on performance.

It’s why they have to be on the approved list.

It was pointed out in the mgs 2019 ball study that they saw issues with the yellow z star or z star xv compared to the white version.

Its part of the reason that titleist took so long making a yellow prov. 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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21 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

  If you play golf, your life is better at least in part because of the USGA.  

That could very well be true, Dave. 

What I notice, however, is their telling me that my wedge grooves are non-conforming.

 

 

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36 minutes ago, BostonSal said:

That could very well be true, Dave. 

What I notice, however, is their telling me that my wedge grooves are non-conforming.

They'll have to pry my Tour Action 588's from my cold dead hands!!  🤣

Seriously, mine are so old the grooves are most certainly not giving me a spin advantage at this point.  I should get something new and start the process of grinding the soles to work for me.  I just hate the thought of grinding away on a $100+ club.

Modern Bag: :Sub70:  849 Pro 9*, Accra Tour Z M5 Flex;   :titelist-small:  915F 3w, Diamana S+ 70 S flex;  Snake Eyes 15*, & 23* Hybrids; :mizuno-small: JPX 900 Forged 5 - PW, PX LZ 6.0;  :Sub70: Raw 50*, Nippon Tour 120 X; :vokey-small: SM9 54* / 10* / S, Wedge Flex ;  :cleveland-small: Tour Action 57*, PX LZ 6.5;   :ping-small: Ancient Anser or Heppler Fetch (depends on the week);  Ball - :Snell: MTB-Black; Bag - :1590477705_SunMountain: H2NO 

Shot Scope H4, MG600 Rangefinder

Classic Bag:  Driver - :wilson_staff_small: Persimmon; 3w - :Hogan: Speed Slot; 5w - :wilson_staff_small: Tour Block; 3 - pw - :wilson_staff_small: Dynapower; sw - Ram Tom Watson;  putter - bullseye standard or flange.

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13 minutes ago, Shapotomous said:

They'll have to pry my Tour Action 588's from my cold dead hands!!  🤣

Seriously, mine are so old the grooves are most certainly not giving me a spin advantage at this point.  I should get something new and start the process of grinding the soles to work for me.  I just hate the thought of grinding away on a $100+ club.

Just gouge away. A local machine shop would have the tool.  With conformity not the issue, you could apply real cover shredding grooves.

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2 hours ago, BostonSal said:

That could very well be true, Dave. 

What I notice, however, is their telling me that my wedge grooves are non-conforming.

You still have just about 2 full seasons of golf before that rule takes effect for most of us.  If you haven't replaced your wedges in 14 years, you don't fit in with the club hoes here at MGS.  😁😋

Edited by DaveP043
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:titelist-small: Irons Titleist AP2 714, KBS Tour S, 3 flat

:callaway-small: Rogue SubZero, GD YS-Six X

:vokey-small: 52, 56, and 60 wedges

:ping-small: B60 G5i putter

Right handed

Reston, Virginia

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1 hour ago, DaveP043 said:

You still have just about 2 full seasons of golf before that rule takes effect for most of us.  If you haven't replaced your wedges in 14 years, you don't fit in with the club hoes here at MGS.  😁😋

Let me share a short story.

 

Titleist made an L-Grind 58-04 since the original box groove Spin Milled Seiries to the SM7 generation.

With the SM8 model, they discontinued it.

I am in the process of acquiring a conforming SM6 version and having it completely rebuilt,

at a cost well in excess of buying  new wedge,

by The Iron Factory in Arizona.

In addition to stripping it, rechroming it, replacing the paint fill, reshafting it, and regripping it,

they will be machining cover shredding box grooves that would not have conformed

to the 2008 allowances.

Now I won't be able to try to qualify for the USGA Senior Amateur Championship.

 

I trust your judgment, Dave.  Should I worry about that?
 

Edited by BostonSal
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14 hours ago, BostonSal said:

Let me share a short story.

 

Titleist made an L-Grind 58-04 since the original box groove Spin Milled Seiries to the SM7 generation.

With the SM8 model, they discontinued it.

I am in the process of acquiring a conforming SM6 version and having it completely rebuilt,

at a cost well in excess of buying  new wedge,

by The Iron Factory in Arizona.

In addition to stripping it, rechroming it, replacing the paint fill, reshafting it, and regripping it,

they will be machining cover shredding box grooves that would not have conformed

to the 2008 allowances.

Now I won't be able to try to qualify for the USGA Senior Amateur Championship.

 

I trust your judgment, Dave.  Should I worry about that?
 

I don't claim to be an expert on exactly what conforms, and I certainly don't know how your "rebuilt" club will fit in the regulations.  If I read you right, you're taking a club that conforms to the 2024 rules and having it changed.  What has The Iron Factory told you about groove conformance?  If it ends up being non-conforming, I have very little sympathy.  If you're worried about it conforming, and you'll need to use it in significant competitions, you can send it to the USGA (or have The Iron Factory send it) to be evaluated.  

:titelist-small: Irons Titleist AP2 714, KBS Tour S, 3 flat

:callaway-small: Rogue SubZero, GD YS-Six X

:vokey-small: 52, 56, and 60 wedges

:ping-small: B60 G5i putter

Right handed

Reston, Virginia

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On 1/15/2022 at 8:17 AM, DaveP043 said:

I'd say there are some small areas where some degree of bifurcation has occurred, primarily through a few Model Local Rules which are applied only at the highest levels of play.  Three that come to mind, two of which are brand new, are the "one ball rule", the limitation of club length to 46", and the elimination of green-reading books.  One more would be the 2010 groove rules, which are used only at very high level competitions, but will go into effect for the rest of us in 2024.

Should have clarified that my comment was limited to balls, buifurcation absolutely exists in other areas (granted the groove rule is temporary). I wouldn’t consider the one ball condition as true equipment buifurcation since it does not limit any physical or performance properties of the actual ball. 

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:titelist-small:  915D3

:titelist-small:  909F2

:titelist-small:  690.CB

:titelist-small:  Vokey SM5

:ping-small:  iWi D66

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  • 1 month later...

Patrick Cantlay:

“That’s the hardest part of it. The knee-jerk reaction is don’t do anything. They may mess up the implementation, so it won’t be worth it,” he said.

“Theoretically, the golf ball needs to go shorter,” he continued, “Every golf course I go to has different tee boxes farther back than even 4-5 years ago when I visited the golf course. It’s getting to the point where the tee boxes are already to the perimeter of the property, so much so that Augusta National has been buying up all the adjacent pieces of property so they can put more tee boxes and change the holes.

“That’s not sustainable. Not only that if pace of play is one of your biggest concerns, how many golf course do I go to on Tour where the tees are 100 yards back? They can’t keep going in this direction.

Cantlay added: “The technology isn’t only better but young guys are trying to hit it farther and farther because the stats say the farther I hit it, the better I’ll play. Something has to give.

“I think the biggest shame is that I can’t go to Cypress Point and play the course the way the designer designed the golf course to be played. The biggest problem for me is when we lose the architectural integrity of the golf course. We’re to the point where that’s where we are. Something has to give.”

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  • 8 months later...
On 2/4/2021 at 7:42 AM, RickyBobby_PR said:

Kyle Berkshire and Bryson got faster by workout out and training. 

 

“Over the past two years, Bryson DeChambeau became the poster child for big drives and a major proponent of adding weight and muscle to gain yards. But Big Bryson is no more, with the 29-year-old recently dropping his bulk-up scheme in favor of the exact opposite: losing huge amounts of weight to improve his health and prevent injuries. … 

But ever since that highlight, DeChambeau has struggled both with his game and his body, suffering a litany of injuries that often kept him off the course until he jumped to LIV Golf last summer.

Now, the Big Bulk Up has officially come to an end, and DeChambeau is expressing regrets for what his radical weight gain did to his body.“

Bryson lost the bulk but not the distance.

 

Edited by LICC
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17 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

Did the LIV Golf thread get locked?

Not that I can see.  

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :seemore-small: mFGP2

Backups:  :taylormade-small:TM-180, :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, Bellum Winmore 787, logo-horizontal-black.svg Directed Force 2.1 

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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59 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Not that I can see.  

Phewww, what a relief 😉.

:ping-small: G410 Plus, 9 Degree Driver 

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 16 Degree 3w

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 19 Degree 5w

:srixon-small:  ZX5 Irons 4-AW 

:ping-small: Glide 2.0 56 Degree SW   (removed from double secret probation 😍)

:EVNROLL: ER5v Putter  (Evnroll ER5v Official Review)

 

 

 

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Bifurcation has been here since 2019.  The USGA allows courses to put a drop zone on the green side of a PA with no adjustment to handicap and the same penalty as if the zone was where the USGA said "It should be."  The USGA/AGA would NEVER run a tournament and put a drop zone on the green side of a Penalty area.  

Sorry if this has been mentioned in the previous 21 pages, I didn't read them all.

 

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10 minutes ago, Buckle said:

Bifurcation has been here since 2019.  The USGA allows courses to put a drop zone on the green side of a PA with no adjustment to handicap and the same penalty as if the zone was where the USGA said "It should be."  The USGA/AGA would NEVER run a tournament and put a drop zone on the green side of a Penalty area.  

Sorry if this has been mentioned in the previous 21 pages, I didn't read them all.

 

A level of bifurcation also exists via the tee boxes. Recreational golfers never play from the distances the Tour plays. This discussion mainly focuses on equipment bifurcation.

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It is always interesting to me when doing a USGA survey and they only will allow you to make choices to support their direction. We saw it with the groove rule that was eventually imposed on all of us, even though statistics on tour basically say it was a waste of time and money for the OEM's and we will see it during the distance debacle. The ruling bodies minds are made up, but that applies to less than 1% of the golfing population. We will again be forced to change and I can't see the guys that hit it 230-250 off the tee in most groups being happy with a change that makes the game harder for the masses. It is so short sighted and the results are predictable, but golf has never been a game for the masses so in essence, our voices mean little anyway I guess. At least the pros will only hit it 300 instead of 330. Not sure what that will do to bring classic courses back, but hey, who isn't up for a rule change that kills all our distance and will to live.

Edited by cardia10
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37 minutes ago, LICC said:

A level of bifurcation also exists via the tee boxes. Recreational golfers never play from the distances the Tour plays. This discussion mainly focuses on equipment bifurcation.

Thanks for the clarification, Maybe the title should be "Equipment bifurcation is coming"?  or I could read the thread 😉

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52 minutes ago, cardia10 said:

It is always interesting to me when doing a USGA survey and they only will allow you to make choices to support their direction. We saw it with the groove rule that was eventually imposed on all of us, even though statistics on tour basically say it was a waste of time and money for the OEM's and we will see it during the distance debacle. The ruling bodies minds are made up, but that applies to less than 1% of the golfing population. We will again be forced to change and I can't see the guys that hit it 230-250 off the tee in most groups being happy with a change that makes the game harder for the masses. It is so short sighted and the results are predictable, but golf has never been a game for the masses so in essence, our voices mean little anyway I guess. At least the pros will only hit it 300 instead of 330. Not sure what that will do to bring classic courses back, but hey, who isn't up for a rule change that kills all our distance and will to live.

Even if they changed drivers or balls to reduce distance, recreational golfers won’t see a big difference. It’s the super fast swing speeds that are also needed to get the exponential increases in distance. 

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While equipment bifurcation is somewhat a change; but rules of competition and local rules affecting highly skilled players already provided some level of bifurcation. As far as I have observed no local championships are testing equipment of going through bags to insure compliance with conforming lists. While the distance debate makes no sense in terms of most golfers; perhaps the regulating bodies should require longer fairways to reduce roll and cutting greens only every third day; and remove rakes from bunkers for highly skilled players.

 

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On 2/2/2021 at 11:03 AM, Middler said:

I assumed bifurcation meant there would be two classes of balls, todays standard and a restricted distance ball of some sort for pros. It never occurred to me they might require two classes of equipment for professional competition - that seems ridiculous to me.

And I wonder when a developing aspiring pro switches balls or equipment in their career. e.g. you get to use whatever you want in junior golf, high school golf, college golf - and then you turn pro and use balls and/or equipment that sets you back substantially? Huh? Imagine working for years to develop the skills to drive the ball 320 yards, and then being forced to hit 250 yards off the tee thereafter - sound good?

Tail wagging the dog. Say the pros are restricted to 350 cc drivers. What are the chances the OEM will continue to develop or even market a non-conforming 460 cc head?  There will be no bifurcation.  Anyone think TP5 or Pro-V will have a longer edition for amateurs? Wouldn’t not mowing fairways so tight and using USGA (4 inches minimum) rough be worth a try?  Adjust green side bunkers so the risk of dropping a second shot in the bunker on a par 5 is worse than coming up 20 yards short? Only need to do this at tournament level courses. Far better than impacting millions of golfers became of a thousand top tier golfers. 

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Titleist TSR 11 degree, Ascent R1 44.5”

Titleist TSR 4W Ascent R1 42”

Titleist TS 21 - 818 23/25 hybrids 

Titleist T300 (2021) 6-W Fubuki

 Titleist SM9 50-54-58 TT AMT Red

Scotty Phantom X 7.5, all LH

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