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Planned 2030 Golf Ball Rollback


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584 members have voted

  1. 1. Are you in favor of the rollback?

    • Yes
      81
    • No
      400
    • Don't Care
      103
  2. 2. Do you watch or care about the PGA Tour and other professional Tours?

    • Yes
      529
    • No
      21
    • Don't Care
      34
  3. 3. Do you wish there was a Tour Only golf ball?

    • Yes
      200
    • No
      237
    • Don't Care
      147
  4. 4. Do you want to play all the same equipment like the pros play?

    • Yes
      215
    • No
      143
    • Don't Care
      226
  5. 5. Do you feel your game will be dramatically effected by the rollback in 2030?

    • Yes
      230
    • No
      240
    • Don't know
      114
  6. 6. Will loosing any distance take away significant enjoyment in golfing for you?

    • Yes
      300
    • No
      158
    • Probably not
      126
  7. 7. Would you quit golf because of the rollback?

    • Yes
      25
    • No
      559
  8. 8. Would you prefer bifurcation?

    • Yes
      268
    • No
      202
    • Don't Care
      114
  9. 9. Is this all too early and we need to wait and see what more will happen over the next few years?

    • Definitely
      261
    • No, this needs to be addressed now
      262
    • Don't care
      61

This poll is closed to new votes


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2 minutes ago, Beakbryce said:

 I would be interested to see how you feel about hitting them now. I would think the swing weight, shaft lengths, and general feel would be a lot different than modern clubs. They will probably be shorter with a club to club comparison due to shaft length. But still fun I would imagine.

We probably need to move this brach of the discussion to another thread or forum or whatever before I get a ticket from the thought police for us talking about irrelevant or misapplied discussion.  

Anyway, to respond more directly, I grabbed the bag I had in storage with all this old stuff the other day and swung them yesterday.  They feel really heavy. I'd like to weight them to see what the difference is.  I don't know where the driver is; may have turned to dust over the years, I really don't recall, but it should be there.  The 3-wood measured 40.75" from the butt of the grip to the bottom of the whipping and 42" from the butt to the heel.  I don't have my new gear here to compare measurement, but the spec sheet for a TM M4 3-wood says it would be 43.25" (https://www.taylormadegolf.com/on/demandware.static/-/Sites-TMaG-Library/default/v1679112461465/docs/productspecs/2018/M4MWD_Tour_FWY_SellSheets_V11_HI-Print.pdf).   I'd love to find the driver and try to even hit a ball off the tee.  I think I am going to take the 3, 5 & 7 with me and see what my SC300 gives me for numbers.  I am sure it will be interesting. 

20230318_111558.jpg

20230318_111540.jpg

  • Driver - Ping G400 9°, Project-X Evenflow Black 6.0S 65 gr. 
  • FW - TM M3 3-wood 15°, Project-X HZRDUS Red 6.0 75 gr. mid-spin
  • Hybrid - TM M4 19°, Project-X Evenflow Black 6.0S 85 gr. HY 
  • Irons - TM P790, 3-PW, Oban CT-115, PXG 311 P Gen 6
  • Wedges - Mizuno T20 Ion blue 52/9 & 56/14, N.S. Pro Modus3 S-flex
  • Putter - Evnroll ER2 Garsen Max grip
  • Getting a grip - oversize Winn DryTacs and Bionic gloves
  • Ball - ProV1, AVX, Maxfli Tour, PXG
  • Bag(s)/cart - Vessel Player III Rovic RV1S and Alphard V2

 

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1 hour ago, funkyjudge said:

I didn’t play the blue tees at Bethpage Black! I played the black tees both times.  They were immaculately maintained, except for the tee boxes on hole #10 and on #14 where there was a temporary tee box because maintenance was going on.

These were tournament rounds and it was known in advance that we would be playing the Black Course from the tips, so any golfers who ware unable or unwilling to play from those tees (about 7,400 yards, if I recall correctly) could opt not to pay the registration fee and enter these events.

Ok you are talking about tournament golf. I was talking about recreational golf. Recreational golfers don’t play the pro tees. 

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11 minutes ago, LICC said:

Ok you are talking about tournament golf. I was talking about recreational golf. Recreational golfers don’t play the pro tees. 

Hopefully, not!

DR - Callaway Paradym X, Newton Motion 4-Dot

4W - T.E. Exotics C722, Diamana D+ 82-S

HYB - Paradym X 18*, HZRDUS Smoke Red 80S; Sub 70 949X 21*, same shaft

7W (if played) - Callaway Epic Flash, ACCRA Tour X 80S

Irons - Cobra Forged Tec X (5-GW), KBS TGI 75-R

Wedges - Edison 2.0, 53* and 57* (bent to 58*), KBS TGI 100

Putter - Makefield VS custom, 34", 67* lie, 1.75* loft

Ball - Maxfli Tour-X CG (2023) or Vice Pro Plus (OnCore ELIXR or Maxfli Tour S in winter)

Bags - Vessel

Cart - MotoCaddy M7 Remote (without the remote)

Spoiler

driver / off the tee is no longer a weakness for me!

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This "discussion" got me more interested in history as it applies to the game and the distance topic.  Everyone is taking about THE BALL and equipment changes affecting distance.  So some research led me to "thread" discussing Bobby Jones driving distance (https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php?topic=19402.0

I'll start by referring everyone to, Reply #4 on: August 14, 2005, 02:48:40 PM:

"There was a marker during Bob Jones's stroke qualifying rounds at Merion in the 1930 Amateur recording the club, distance and location of his shots.

Hole 5:  2nd round, 275 yards
Hole 6:  2nd round, 250 with 2-iron
Hole 7:  1st round, 290
Hole 8:  1st round, 320; 2nd round 325
Hole 10: 1st round, 280; 2nd round 290
Hole 16: 1st round, 270; 2nd round 300
Hole 18:  1st round, 300; 2nd round 285"

Then, Reply #8 on: August 14, 2005, 09:28:13 PM:

"An old placemat at Interlachen commemorated his 68? in the 3rd? round of the 1930 Open.  Drives regularly rolled out 260 or 275, but he was unable to reach the 268 (longest par 3 ever in the U.S. Open) yard 17th where his drives would land short and roll all the way down to the lake."

So, some of this talks about roll, but we all know that fairways and greens were "shaggy" in comparison to conditions today; advancements in equipment, grasses, greens keeping philosophies and techniques allow tighter cuts and smoother greens and we see plenty of roll on the tour today, depending on condition.  So, IF Keep in mind we are referring to pre-WWII technology, equipment and conditions.  Bobby Jones died in 1971.

Nicklaus hit a 360+ yard drive t #18 to win the open, with 1970s ball and club technology.

So, back to the argument that ALL of the equipment changes will control the game.  It is bupkis.  There is always going to be "that guy" who comes through and  rows the doors off everyone else using "limiting" equipment.  Bobby Jones, Babe Ruth, Jesse Owens, Jack Nicklaus, John Daly, Mike Tyson, Tiger Woods.  It crosses all sports and ranges from short to tall, fat to skinny, men and women.  Rules committees can limit equipment, but some people are going to out perform others, even with equipment restrictions.  The question that must be answered is, at what point do you acknowledge that you cannot stop the people from improving so limiting equipment advancement only further limits those who aren't going to make the extra effort to improve their individual performance, or those who cannot due to some physical limitation or handicap.  The ONLY way to equalize the game is by putting the jeopardy into positions on the course that force those with a physical strength advantage to play strategically.  Yes, the second shot for the short player still requires a longer club, and as noted earlier, THIS is where the appearance of a boring, same shot all the time competition presents itself; but following the tee shots it is then "game on."  Guys will have the choice of going for it and laying up strategically.  And even then, there are still guys who are going to look at that tees shot and the "risk reward" aspect and say, Well, if I can carry it 315 (5 yards more than I could really hit the ball and just one yard past the trouble) I'll have an advantage, and some will try.  When that starts happening regularly, courses adjust the location of the jeopardy.  They do this ALL the time when looking at venues for tournaments.  

This discussion of hazard position and location kind of correlates to using an MLR for balls.  Some courses and tournaments may refrain from involving the MLR; just like some courses would decide not to move or ad hazards so they will remain wide open to "bombers."  When those bomber head to courses that have strategically places hazards that force a change of strategy they will either pay the ego penalty or learn where their weaknesses are when prevented from "overpowering" the course the rest of us have to play on.  There is NO reason to lengthen courses to 10,000 yards when penalties for not being able to carry hazards or for "blowing it through" are put into place.  I understand the assertion that this MIGHT lead to boring, hopscotch golf, but again there is always that one guy who's ego is going to force them to go for it, or that one guy who really is going to be able to, and THAT will provide the anticipation and excitement that started with Jack, carried over with JD, into Tiger and onto Bryson and his unique approach that drove others to try to keep up.  The idea of two standards stratifies the community.  It presents complications with handicap calculations like I mentioned earlier and haven't seen any discussion on.  It presents complications for the competitive amateur who is forced to swap back and forth, or choose to play one other the other, but then cannot be fairly compared by the handicap system to the other players because of an unnatural, unaccountable variable. 

Not to mention the discussion/comments I saw pop up about, those people, who are going to play with "non-conforming" equipment and the animosity it will create in an otherwise enjoyable day.

Anyway, off to the range to do some retro-equipment testing!

 

 

  • Driver - Ping G400 9°, Project-X Evenflow Black 6.0S 65 gr. 
  • FW - TM M3 3-wood 15°, Project-X HZRDUS Red 6.0 75 gr. mid-spin
  • Hybrid - TM M4 19°, Project-X Evenflow Black 6.0S 85 gr. HY 
  • Irons - TM P790, 3-PW, Oban CT-115, PXG 311 P Gen 6
  • Wedges - Mizuno T20 Ion blue 52/9 & 56/14, N.S. Pro Modus3 S-flex
  • Putter - Evnroll ER2 Garsen Max grip
  • Getting a grip - oversize Winn DryTacs and Bionic gloves
  • Ball - ProV1, AVX, Maxfli Tour, PXG
  • Bag(s)/cart - Vessel Player III Rovic RV1S and Alphard V2

 

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The whole 'bifurcation' and roll back discussion is an age old discussion that can probably date back to the 1960's - when a few of the more powerful players could easily out drive anybody else on a given day.

Fast forward to today and little has changed - apart from golf courses themselves which a far too manicured for their own good.

With regards to the debate then and now - lengthening courses and restricting golf balls has the same effect - it still gives the longer players the same advantage. It still doesn't take into acount the amount of 'average' hitters would have picked up major wins and the amount of 'above average' hitters who miss cuts. It's an issue that doesn't need  fixing nor does it need an 'fix' that plays into the hands of the very same palyers who the ruling bodies claim to  have some sort of an unfair advantage.

Same equipment for all, otherwise it isn't golf as I know and grew up playing it. Sure, it woulf be great to see tour pros of today using 42" steel shafted wooden headed divers with balata balls - but the game has moved on since then and so has everyone else who tees it up on a casual basis who abide by the same set of rule rules as everyone else in the world. The elephant in the room is still talent - some have it more than others and that's the way it always has been since whenver golf was invented.

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22 hours ago, Subdiver1 said:

We probably need to move this brach of the discussion to another thread or forum or whatever before I get a ticket from the thought police for us talking about irrelevant or misapplied discussion.  

Anyway, to respond more directly, I grabbed the bag I had in storage with all this old stuff the other day and swung them yesterday.  They feel really heavy. I'd like to weight them to see what the difference is.  I don't know where the driver is; may have turned to dust over the years, I really don't recall, but it should be there.  The 3-wood measured 40.75" from the butt of the grip to the bottom of the whipping and 42" from the butt to the heel.  I don't have my new gear here to compare measurement, but the spec sheet for a TM M4 3-wood says it would be 43.25" (https://www.taylormadegolf.com/on/demandware.static/-/Sites-TMaG-Library/default/v1679112461465/docs/productspecs/2018/M4MWD_Tour_FWY_SellSheets_V11_HI-Print.pdf).   I'd love to find the driver and try to even hit a ball off the tee.  I think I am going to take the 3, 5 & 7 with me and see what my SC300 gives me for numbers.  I am sure it will be interesting. 

20230318_111558.jpg

20230318_111540.jpg

In some ways, I miss the days of persimmon and laminated maple woods and balata covered wound golf balls, where you could create enough spin to curve a ball around a 90 degree dogleg …. and also hit hooks and slices that would end up 80-100 yards offline (in the woods, water hazards, OB, or on an adjacent fairway).

Edited by funkyjudge
Typo

DR - Callaway Paradym X, Newton Motion 4-Dot

4W - T.E. Exotics C722, Diamana D+ 82-S

HYB - Paradym X 18*, HZRDUS Smoke Red 80S; Sub 70 949X 21*, same shaft

7W (if played) - Callaway Epic Flash, ACCRA Tour X 80S

Irons - Cobra Forged Tec X (5-GW), KBS TGI 75-R

Wedges - Edison 2.0, 53* and 57* (bent to 58*), KBS TGI 100

Putter - Makefield VS custom, 34", 67* lie, 1.75* loft

Ball - Maxfli Tour-X CG (2023) or Vice Pro Plus (OnCore ELIXR or Maxfli Tour S in winter)

Bags - Vessel

Cart - MotoCaddy M7 Remote (without the remote)

Spoiler

driver / off the tee is no longer a weakness for me!

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My hero Nicklaus has been advocating this for years.  Love Jack but he is wrong and if they indeed do this, was Arnie so wrong when he wanted more trampoline effect on drivers for amateurs?

 

We used to do a "hard day" at our club where the pin positions were crazy hard.  Downhill, sidehill, etc.  Not saying the tour should be this extreme but they could move more in that direction. 

 

Maybe redefine par for the pros.  You could do it on the par 3s by making them all 275 yds +.  Just one example.

Edited by 6 Million Dollar Man

:cobra-small:  LTDx Drive

:cobra-small:  LTDx 3, 5 & 7 Fairway Metals

:mizuno-small: Mizuno Hot Metal JPC 921 Irons

:PXG:0311 Wedges--56° & 60°

:PXG: Blade Putter

:maxfli: Tour Golf Ball

 

 

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On 3/18/2023 at 8:20 AM, TylorJudd said:

Has anyone ever realized how many members come out of the woodwork for topics like this? Why do we only see engaged discussion on something that we have zero control over and is usually polarizing?!? ENGAGE MORE! Well some comments from certain members also indicates they should post less 🤣🤣🤣🤣

Yes.  Just like the adage "there are horses for courses", well, you get the idea.  I'd still like to see some posts in the "how did you play", "what did you practice", threads from some of these members.  I honestly wonder if some actually play golf.

f27590a21842e8ef0db8e569e42aef28.png

:ping-small: G410 Plus, 9 Degree Driver 

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 16 Degree 3w

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 19 Degree 5w

:srixon-small:  ZX5 Irons 4-AW 

:ping-small: Glide 2.0 56 Degree SW   (removed from double secret probation 😍)

:EVNROLL: ER5v Putter  (Evnroll ER5v Official Review)

:odyssey-small: AI-One Milled Seven T CH (Currently Under Product Test)

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

Yes.  Just like the adage "there are horses for courses", well, you get the idea.  I'd still like to see some posts in the "how did you play", "what did you practice", threads from some of these members.  I honestly wonder if some actually play golf.

f27590a21842e8ef0db8e569e42aef28.png

I've thought the same thing. 

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The R&A & USGA have lost their minds. Technology, training & practice will always win out. It's stupid to have professionals play with a different ball. The "FEAR" of golf courses being over powered is dumb. The Valspar proved that this week. Let the rough grow, narrow the fairways, & making shot making a premium. Test the player's skill. A drive of 275+ yards can't have the club face off but 2 degrees to hit a 20 yard wide fairway.. The R&A plays on old sleep pastures that become difficult only if the weather / wind is howling. Their rough can be brutal if you can find the ball.  Not "ALL" courses have the land to lengthen the tees but they all can make accuracy necessary by letting the rough grow to ankle deep. Another situation occurs: what about College players & the LPGA? The R&A & USGA didn't "OPEN" a can of worms, they put the worms in the can.

 

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Case in point ^^^^^ @fixyurdivot @sirchunksalot

I like golf. You should like golf. If life is tough, play more golf!

Callaway Paradym Triple Diamond 10.5, ProjectX HZRDUS Smoke Black

Titleist TSi2 18 Degree Hybrid, Project X HZRDUS Smoke Black RDX Hexcel

Takomo 301CB's, KBS Tours S

Vokey SM8 48 10F, 52 08F, 56 08M, 60 08M

Odyssey Stroke Lab 2 Ball 10 

Nike VR Tour Staff Bag

Titleist Pro V1x and Vice Pro Plus

 

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10 hours ago, Bill Nakayama said:

The R&A & USGA have lost their minds. Technology, training & practice will always win out. It's stupid to have professionals play with a different ball. The "FEAR" of golf courses being over powered is dumb. The Valspar proved that this week. Let the rough grow, narrow the fairways, & making shot making a premium. Test the player's skill. A drive of 275+ yards can't have the club face off but 2 degrees to hit a 20 yard wide fairway.. The R&A plays on old sleep pastures that become difficult only if the weather / wind is howling. Their rough can be brutal if you can find the ball.  Not "ALL" courses have the land to lengthen the tees but they all can make accuracy necessary by letting the rough grow to ankle deep. Another situation occurs: what about College players & the LPGA? The R&A & USGA didn't "OPEN" a can of worms, they put the worms in the can.

 

As a golf viewing fan this is exactly what I don’t want for course setups. Boring, one-dimensional target golf. 

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On 3/14/2023 at 4:34 PM, GolfSpy_BOS said:

I think we need to get an opinion on this from the only voice that we really need to listen to on this:

 

@Yellow Ball how does it make you feel that the PGA wants to make you softer and slower?  You've worked your whole life to as firm and fit as a little ball can be... and here they are, trying to turn you into a marshmallow, or maybe more accurately a Peep.  

Representing the balls of the world, I will try to make this brief:

Are they going to make cars slower? Are they trying to make appliances less efficient?  Are they going to make smart phones dumb? Most of these players are pretty jacked up compared to years back. Are you going to tell them they can’t go to the gym? I can go on. Hell no. We thrive on improving (our minds, bodies, and equipment).
As a player you still have to hit the shots. Pro’s rise and fall with the same ball from week to week.
On a selfish note, if the Pros are going to be required to play a softer ball or a restricted ball in whatever materials used they will only try to hit it harder. I can’t take much more. 

Leave the existing ball alone. If you need to do something then establish a not to exceed rebound limit using todays ball as a base line. (A ball shot at 100 mph through a smooth cylinder air cannon at a 1” thick steel plate shall not rebound past “X” yards.) Then the manufacturers can still play around with spin through cover materials, dimple patterns and such. They might even increase distance through the dimple pattern but the straight rebound will still be in tolerance. 
YB out!

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1 hour ago, Yellow Ball said:

Representing the balls of the world, I will try to make this brief:

Are they going to make cars slower? Are they trying to make appliances less efficient?  Are they going to make smart phones dumb? Most of these players are pretty jacked up compared to years back. Are you going to tell them they can’t go to the gym? I can go on. Hell no. We thrive on improving (our minds, bodies, and equipment).
As a player you still have to hit the shots. Pro’s rise and fall with the same ball from week to week.
On a selfish note, if the Pros are going to be required to play a softer ball or a restricted ball in whatever materials used they will only try to hit it harder. I can’t take much more. 

Leave the existing ball alone. If you need to do something then establish a not to exceed rebound limit using todays ball as a base line. (A ball shot at 100 mph through a smooth cylinder air cannon at a 1” thick steel plate shall not rebound past “X” yards.) Then the manufacturers can still play around with spin through cover materials, dimple patterns and such. They might even increase distance through the dimple pattern but the straight rebound will still be in tolerance. 
YB out!

Again, where do you guys see where the "existing ball" is going to change.  This is a proposal for a LOCAL RULE.  You know.  Like the one at the course that drops down the row of white stakes between two holes and says if you cut the corner it is OB and you ignore them anyway.

Edited by mardukes

Z565 or Launcher Lite :: M6 3&5 woods :: Srixon hybrids :: Cleveland 588 TT irons :: CBX wedges :: midsize grips w/no glove

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20 minutes ago, mardukes said:

Again, where do you guys see where the "existing ball" is going to change.  This is a proposal for a LOCAL RULE.  You know.  Like the one at the course that drops down the row of white stakes between two holes and says if you cut the corner it is OB and you ignore them anyway.

The more amateur events that decide to adopt it will cause a trickle down effect. Ajga is rumored to be onboard so that’s huge. Just like the pros aren’t going to want to bounce between balls depending on where they are playing the juniors and elite amateurs aren’t going to want to do the same.

So we are looking at the big picture of the effects of the decision compared to those thinking it’s only going to be a pro tour thing.

if the ball manufacturers decide to make a ball it’s going to be expensive at retail initially because lack of demand, once that switches to juniors and elite amateurs needing it then they will produce more and the price will come down. At that point they will have to look at the feasibility of making the current ball and it’s very likely they will reduce production and the costs will go up as more are buying the mlr ball.

 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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I see a lot of people using other sports to justify anger toward the USGA. Here's a few thoughts.

"Is the NBA going to raise the rim to 11 feet?" - Golf courses have been lengthening for two decades thus, "raising the rim" in a golf sense. The NBA has moved the 3-point line four times, widened the lane twice, governed the way defense can be played, and shortened the shot clock in the past 30 years. The NBA, college basketball and high school basketball all use a different 3-point line and high school uses a narrower lane. 

"Are we going to lengthen the mile because runners are running it faster." - Again, golf courses have lengthened for two decades so, in a sense, yes, golf is lengthening the mile for the players at the highest levels of the game. To use a more apt running analogy, limits in the design of track shoes were imposed in 2001 for elite amateur and professional competitions, effectively creating a bifurcated set of rules for track and field. 

The PGA Tour will vote against this policy and will play by our own rules." - That's certainly the PGA Tour's prerogative. The USGA will simple remove automatic qualifications extended to PGA Tour players for all USGA Championships. PGA Tour players will then be forced to go through qualifying to play in the US Open.

The issue with this situation, as I see it, is the USGA should have done this 20 years ago before things got out of hand! 

 

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On 3/18/2023 at 8:26 AM, cnosil said:

"... it can't just be equipment."

Funny you mention it that way.  See the results of my informal testing of a set of 1980 Titleist irons vs. 2019 TM P790s.  I agree that equipment is more forgiving and lofts have definitely "strengthened."  But apparently if we compare apples to apples in loft the equipment contribution to distance is relative to those loft changes more than any real improvement in ball speed from material or design.  But then this is all based on my testing using a SC300 at an outdoor range not a Trackman and a robot.  But, when considering similarly lofted clubs there really wasn't much of a performance (distance) difference between the two.  Take 2 guys, one an athlete and the other, not so much, and give the not so much guy a set of new clubs and the fitness guy these 1980 irons and what do you think will come of it?

  • Driver - Ping G400 9°, Project-X Evenflow Black 6.0S 65 gr. 
  • FW - TM M3 3-wood 15°, Project-X HZRDUS Red 6.0 75 gr. mid-spin
  • Hybrid - TM M4 19°, Project-X Evenflow Black 6.0S 85 gr. HY 
  • Irons - TM P790, 3-PW, Oban CT-115, PXG 311 P Gen 6
  • Wedges - Mizuno T20 Ion blue 52/9 & 56/14, N.S. Pro Modus3 S-flex
  • Putter - Evnroll ER2 Garsen Max grip
  • Getting a grip - oversize Winn DryTacs and Bionic gloves
  • Ball - ProV1, AVX, Maxfli Tour, PXG
  • Bag(s)/cart - Vessel Player III Rovic RV1S and Alphard V2

 

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1 hour ago, Subdiver1 said:

 Take 2 guys, one an athlete and the other, not so much, and give the not so much guy a set of new clubs and the fitness guy these 1980 irons and what do you think will come of it?

No matter what clubs are provided some people with hit them father than someone else.  At the tour level with the reduced ball,  players will adjust their equipment to optimize their performance.  

You can make that comparison with todays equipment.   I can hit a GI type iron 20 yards farther than the same numbered muscle back.  It is a combination of loft and resulting spin.   it is about finding the right combination.  

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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2 hours ago, sixcat said:

The USGA will simple remove automatic qualifications extended to PGA Tour players for all USGA Championships. PGA Tour players will then be forced to go through qualifying to play in the US Open.

This would make the usga look like the elite douches everyone thinks they are.

I also don’t think they would go that route over a MLR. But again if they did they would look bad.

The PGA tour could then turnaround and say that the FedEx cup points for the US Open will ne reduced and that the tour will no longer recognize the us open as a major. 

2 hours ago, sixcat said:

The issue with this situation, as I see it, is the USGA should have done this 20 years ago before things got out of hand! 

20 years ago they were about growing the game and getting more people involved. Distance sells. They are making this a bigger problem than it is and they don’t like that the chickens have come home.

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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4 minutes ago, cnosil said:

No matter what clubs are provided some people with hit them father than someone else.  At the tour level with the reduced ball,  players will adjust their equipment to optimize their performance.  

You can make that comparison with todays equipment.   I can hit a GI type iron 20 yards farther than the same numbered muscle back.  It is a combination of loft and resulting spin.   it is about finding the right combination.  

Can't say that I would argue with you there.  We always used to say, the reason we pair up against bigger stronger opponents in training is that there will always be a bigger, faster, stronger guys out there and the only way to be prepared is to have trained against them to start with.  

I find it interesting that you hit GI irons longer than PD or Tour (muscle back) type.  If loft and spin disparity are pared down or cancelled out by shaft adjustments do you think the same would hold true?  I get that certain heads (clubs) are going to be more "skinny" than others to there is only so much one can do with shaft changes, but that is the benefit we have with today's technology.

Thanks. 

  • Driver - Ping G400 9°, Project-X Evenflow Black 6.0S 65 gr. 
  • FW - TM M3 3-wood 15°, Project-X HZRDUS Red 6.0 75 gr. mid-spin
  • Hybrid - TM M4 19°, Project-X Evenflow Black 6.0S 85 gr. HY 
  • Irons - TM P790, 3-PW, Oban CT-115, PXG 311 P Gen 6
  • Wedges - Mizuno T20 Ion blue 52/9 & 56/14, N.S. Pro Modus3 S-flex
  • Putter - Evnroll ER2 Garsen Max grip
  • Getting a grip - oversize Winn DryTacs and Bionic gloves
  • Ball - ProV1, AVX, Maxfli Tour, PXG
  • Bag(s)/cart - Vessel Player III Rovic RV1S and Alphard V2

 

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16 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

This would make the usga look like the elite douches everyone thinks they are.

I also don’t think they would go that route over a MLR. But again if they did they would look bad.

The PGA tour could then turnaround and say that the FedEx cup points for the US Open will ne reduced and that the tour will no longer recognize the us open as a major. 

The PGA Tour doesn’t dictate or decide what defines a major. Which is why they don’t have one!

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10 minutes ago, Subdiver1 said:

I find it interesting that you hit GI irons longer than PD or Tour (muscle back) type.  If loft and spin disparity are pared down or cancelled out by shaft adjustments do you think the same would hold true?  I get that certain heads (clubs) are going to be more "skinny" than others to there is only so much one can do with shaft changes, but that is the benefit we have with today's technology.

Thanks. 

Yep,  My dispersion with GI irons is also a lot bigger than with Players irons.   Today, one of the clubs I was hitting was the Srixon ZX-4 and I compared it to the TM P7MB.  Different lofts and neither was optimized for me,  but the TM was so much better.    I don't think shaft will do much;  you'd have to level out the lofts to even anything out.    You seem to think it is odd that GI go farther. 

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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3 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

The more amateur events that decide to adopt it will cause a trickle down effect. Ajga is rumored to be onboard so that’s huge. Just like the pros aren’t going to want to bounce between balls depending on where they are playing the juniors and elite amateurs aren’t going to want to do the same.

So we are looking at the big picture of the effects of the decision compared to those thinking it’s only going to be a pro tour thing.

if the ball manufacturers decide to make a ball it’s going to be expensive at retail initially because lack of demand, once that switches to juniors and elite amateurs needing it then they will produce more and the price will come down. At that point they will have to look at the feasibility of making the current ball and it’s very likely they will reduce production and the costs will go up as more are buying the mlr ball.

 

While it is certain that the only brand of the new ball will be Titleist, let's not neglect to mention how it will cause sea levels to rise and wash away Torrey Pines.

Z565 or Launcher Lite :: M6 3&5 woods :: Srixon hybrids :: Cleveland 588 TT irons :: CBX wedges :: midsize grips w/no glove

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2 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Yep,  My dispersion with GI irons is also a lot bigger than with Players irons.   Today, one of the clubs I was hitting was the Srixon ZX-4 and I compared it to the TM P7MB.  Different lofts and neither was optimized for me,  but the TM was so much better.    I don't think shaft will do much;  you'd have to level out the lofts to even anything out.    You seem to think it is odd that GI go farther. 

I figured dispersion, in general is better (again in general/for most people) with GI irons. Otherwise why play them.  As far as distance, I have always been a bit longer with player/tour irons.  For whatever reason I recall discussion that you gave up a bit (potential power) to gain a bit (forgiveness) which is where the Players Distance irons came into bridge the gap between Players (tour) and GI (forgiveness) irons.  As I recall from "back in the day" the benefit of a forged tour iron was that when you were on the screws GI irons couldn't keep up, but that was the trade off; if you weren't on the screws you lost a few yards and spin etc.  Maybe that has changed.  I tried to keep an open mind the last couple of times I went to play around and had fittings done.  GI irons never seem to workout so on one hand I was glad I haven't lost so much of my game that I need to move over to a GI iron, but if I had seen better dispersion and relatively equal distance I was open to at least considering it. 

You touch on one of the funny things about all of this, that no matter how many shaft options there are, some clubs still won't work for some of us.  One would almost want to believe that with 42,657 different shafts out there, somebody would be able to make X club work for anyone; that just isn't the case.  I wish the ZX5s and 7s had been around when I got fitted last time.  I hit the ZX7 a while back and man did they feel good.  

  • Driver - Ping G400 9°, Project-X Evenflow Black 6.0S 65 gr. 
  • FW - TM M3 3-wood 15°, Project-X HZRDUS Red 6.0 75 gr. mid-spin
  • Hybrid - TM M4 19°, Project-X Evenflow Black 6.0S 85 gr. HY 
  • Irons - TM P790, 3-PW, Oban CT-115, PXG 311 P Gen 6
  • Wedges - Mizuno T20 Ion blue 52/9 & 56/14, N.S. Pro Modus3 S-flex
  • Putter - Evnroll ER2 Garsen Max grip
  • Getting a grip - oversize Winn DryTacs and Bionic gloves
  • Ball - ProV1, AVX, Maxfli Tour, PXG
  • Bag(s)/cart - Vessel Player III Rovic RV1S and Alphard V2

 

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49 minutes ago, mardukes said:

While it is certain that the only brand of the new ball will be Titleist, let's not neglect to mention how it will cause sea levels to rise and wash away Torrey Pines.

How do you get to the only brand of the ball will be titlest?

Titleist already and out against the proposal. Plus there are players under contract to TM, Srixon and Callaway, they aren’t going to allow a staff member out of a contract to play a competitors ball nor are they going to risk losing money in ball sales if it became retail available 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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Just read excerpts from Rory's interview with No Laying Up, linked in the latest newsletter from MGS.  I'm not a big fan of Rory, that is for a different day, but I actually found his argument FOR the change, to be rather compelling.  The article is definitely worth a read whether you agree with him or not.  I was firmly in the "shortening of the shaft" camp prior to reading his thoughts but am now reconsidering my stance.  

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1 minute ago, jlb1023 said:

Just read excerpts from Rory's interview with No Laying Up, linked in the latest newsletter from MGS.  I'm not a big fan of Rory, that is for a different day, but I actually found his argument FOR the change, to be rather compelling.  The article is definitely worth a read whether you agree with him or not.  I was firmly in the "shortening of the shaft" camp prior to reading his thoughts but am now reconsidering my stance.  

Rory can be a walking contradiction at times.

he just switched to an older model driver because it has a hotter face and better distance than he turns around and says he supports the rollback because it will benefit him.

Rory I think many times means good and wants to be open and honest when he talks but imo he needs to talk less on most issues

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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Just now, RickyBobby_PR said:

Rory can be a walking contradiction at times.

he just switched to an older model driver because it has a hotter face and better distance than he turns around and says he supports the rollback because it will benefit him.

Rory I think many times means good and wants to be open and honest when he talks but imo he needs to talk less on most issues

I agree that he should talk less but his reasons for supporting the the change, besides the selfish ones, are legit, or at least worth considering.  I certainly was not aware that tennis did the exact same thing, slowed the ball for the mens game.  Not apples to apples, I know, but the reasoning was similar.  Again, I'm not a proponent necessarily, but I'm more open to it than I was an hour ago.

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