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Planned 2030 Golf Ball Rollback


PMookie

Forum Member Opinions  

584 members have voted

  1. 1. Are you in favor of the rollback?

    • Yes
      81
    • No
      400
    • Don't Care
      103
  2. 2. Do you watch or care about the PGA Tour and other professional Tours?

    • Yes
      529
    • No
      21
    • Don't Care
      34
  3. 3. Do you wish there was a Tour Only golf ball?

    • Yes
      200
    • No
      237
    • Don't Care
      147
  4. 4. Do you want to play all the same equipment like the pros play?

    • Yes
      215
    • No
      143
    • Don't Care
      226
  5. 5. Do you feel your game will be dramatically effected by the rollback in 2030?

    • Yes
      230
    • No
      240
    • Don't know
      114
  6. 6. Will loosing any distance take away significant enjoyment in golfing for you?

    • Yes
      300
    • No
      158
    • Probably not
      126
  7. 7. Would you quit golf because of the rollback?

    • Yes
      25
    • No
      559
  8. 8. Would you prefer bifurcation?

    • Yes
      268
    • No
      202
    • Don't Care
      114
  9. 9. Is this all too early and we need to wait and see what more will happen over the next few years?

    • Definitely
      261
    • No, this needs to be addressed now
      262
    • Don't care
      61

This poll is closed to new votes


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I'm personally fine with the idea of trying to reduce the length the pros are hitting it. However, I don't love the idea of limiting ball performance. I would personally rather see limits on club loft, length, etc., than having to try making a whole new product. I honestly don't know what the best solution is for containing the distance pros are hitting it but I don't like the current plans. Maybe they can require only steel shafts in all the clubs like wood bats in baseball. IDK. I'm just spit balling a little. I just don't want courses to keep tightening up and the rough becoming unplayable. I want pros to be able to go after low scores with a course that is set up in a "fair" playing condition. I simply don't like the idea of a fairways as wide as pencil with foot long rough and brown greens that are rocks. I imagine 45" steel shafts would sufficiently slow down club speeds, at least in the medium term.

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On 3/15/2023 at 12:42 PM, chisag said:

 

... To be fair, Augusta has the real estate to continue lengthening their course while many others do not.  in the last 20 years the AN has gone from 6,985 yards to the current 7,475 yards. The fact that the scores have stayed the same certainly indicate had they stayed at 6,985 the scores would be much lower.

... But obviously the design of the course also play a huge role. Depending on pin placements, #15 dictates a difficult option whether going for it in two or 3. Such a great hole. And #13 can reward the longest hitters if they are very accurate, yet we see so many balls in the trees/pine straw to the right, so far from a bomb and gauge hole. This year it has gone from 510 to 545 yds and it will be interesting to see how that effects scoring. 

You are right about their expansion of the course, and not all courses have that luxury. After listening to the NLU podcast on this topic I’ve changed my mind somewhat on it and think rolling the ball back isn’t a terrible idea. Still would like to see tougher setups where more thinking is involved in each shot. 
 

What is funny to me is the shorter hitters on tour seem to think this will help them more. It honestly hurts them more than the long hitters in my opinion.

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On 3/15/2023 at 1:09 PM, LICC said:

Give today's players 1990 equipment and they would hit the balls roughly the same as the players in 1990. You would see minimal differences.

Ehh I don’t know about that. Maybe with 1990 training and thinking, but the speed and strength of these guys is a different level now. They wouldn’t hit it as far as they do now no doubt but I don’t think they’d just be the same either. 

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3 minutes ago, Ben_Howell34 said:

Ehh I don’t know about that. Maybe with 1990 training and thinking, but the speed and strength of these guys is a different level now. They wouldn’t hit it as far as they do now no doubt but I don’t think they’d just be the same either. 

It would be within 2-3% probably. Strength training does little to increase distance on any given swing. The equipment is the predominant factor. There have been several examples of today's players trying older equipment, and they all basically hit the balls the same distance as players did back when the equipment was being used. You can also look at the Champions tour and how much massively farther those same players hit it now compared to 25-30 years ago. They don't gain physical strength and speed in their 50s compared to their 20s.

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11 minutes ago, LICC said:

It would be within 2-3% probably. Strength training does little to increase distance on any given swing. The equipment is the predominant factor. There have been several examples of today's players trying older equipment, and they all basically hit the balls the same distance as players did back when the equipment was being used. You can also look at the Champions tour and how much massively farther those same players hit it now compared to 25-30 years ago. They don't gain physical strength and speed in their 50s compared to their 20s.

Pretty sure this topic has been discussed at length on this forum and we are aware of your position on it. Lots of points can be made on either side of that argument to support one opinion or another.

We will do what we can to keep this to the thread topic and just make sure we don't go down that rabbit hole once again in this thread. 

⛳🛄 as of Nov 6, 2023 (Past WITB
Driver:  :callaway-small: Paradym TD w/ GD ADDI 6X Driver Shootout! 

Wood:    :cobra-small: F7 3 wood 14.5* w/ Motore F1 Shaft

Irons:   :titleist-small: T Series - T200 5 Iron
                                          T150 6-9 Iron
                                          T100 PW/GW

Wedge:  Toura Golf - A Spec 53,37,61 degree 

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16 minutes ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

Pretty sure this topic has been discussed at length on this forum and we are aware of your position on it. Lots of points can be made on either side of that argument to support one opinion or another.

We will do what we can to keep this to the thread topic and just make sure we don't go down that rabbit hole once again in this thread. 

And Kyle Berkshire one of the fastest in the world states getting stronger will help hit it further, but that gets ignored by the anti fitness crowd

https://golf.com/instruction/driving/train-like-a-power-lifter-kyle-berkshire-secrets-bombs/?amp=1

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Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

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17 hours ago, PMookie said:

And that was my original point………..

Just watching the Valspar and there is a 43 yards difference between Rose and Fitzpatrick after their tee shots on 7.  I am sure this happens more than some will admit due to where the ball lands, course contours, and strategy

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If they roll it back it should be for everyone. I'm a short hitter who plays usga senior type events. Distance has been overprivileged in golf for too long. Hitting it arrow straight should have it's day now.  The ball companies will likely sue. 

Settled clubs: Epon 50/8, 45/6, 40/5, 35/4, 30/4, 26/3 all with Zelos 8 stiff, 1/2 degree flat. Mizuno CLK Hybrid 20 degrees. Putter: 37" rife.h Hbore xl 2wood (the unicorn)--16 degrees, 420 cc? 

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Not settle: 12 degree Mizuno stx 12* set to 11.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, TitleistMike said:

If I read correctly, the majority of premium balls are non compliant at FUTURE club head speed vs distance specs.

If ball flies 317 or less at 120mph club head robot speed ball passes.

 

If ball flies 317 or more @127mph, fail in future. If the ball goes further at speed over 120, it fails.

 

This doesn't bifurcate. It puts a limit on balls, and dials balls back 5% or so. 

 

A prov1(x) will be modified to conform. Recreational players will buy conforming or non conforming balls. 

 

99% of people I play with will use a CONFORMING ball. They won't use a cheater ball.

This is why the promise that only elite competitors will be impacted is poppycock. 

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2 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

And Kyle Berkshire one of the fastest in the world states getting stronger will help hit it further, but that gets ignored by the anti fitness crowd

https://golf.com/instruction/driving/train-like-a-power-lifter-kyle-berkshire-secrets-bombs/?amp=1

Couldn't agree more. You know what I find funny about this discussion? (Yes that is a rhetorical question since we don't know each other). I watched runners and triathletes go through this discussion about a decade back. The traditional school of thought and practice was that runners and triathathletes should stay away from weight because the "bulk" would slow them down, even in the face of repetitive studies and examples that showed that building full body strength (adding upper body for runners and overall for triathletes) improved overall performance; apparently upper body strength, and yes that leads to SOME increase in "bulk" contributed to lower body (eunning) performance.

The body is a system. One weak area weakens the rest of the system. The same goes for golfers. Which is why you see the xfit type routines for young pro golfers (and some older ones) using heavy weights, it contributes to overall performance.

Equipment can only for so much disparity in player performance level/capability. Which is why the continuous "it's the equipment" mantra is such a myopic argument; put Joe Blow the couch potato, weekend player up against Birdie Bob the Tour pro with zone old 1980s Northwestern KMart specials and the B.B. will devastate J.B. every time. Give J.B. a set of custom fit clubs with the latest club and fitting tech and keep B.B. in the old 1980s club and I'd bet a month pay that B.B. beats J.B. new club guy at least 2 out of 3 if not 10 for 10.  The equipment matters, but only to the extent that the player can effectively employ the equipment. The typical everyday player CANNOT keep up with the elite player, or in many cases even a local pro. So this limited flight ball, reduced club performance argument is B.S. The top 1% of players will always be the top 1%, the top 10% of players may have a chance, with hard work and a smart game, at getting there or hanging in with the top; the bottom 30% are NEVER going to get there no matter what equipment restrictions the USGA, PGA, R&A or anyone else places on manufacturers. One contributes to the other. Better equipment can most assuredly help offset performance disparity, but only so much can be done without improving the fitness side.

Aside from that we then need to take into account experience, knowing when to make what shot, how the ball performs on different grasses, ability to make consistent contact, etc. etc. etc. The list that separates the every day player from the Pros is extensive and limiting ball flight doesn't even scratch the surface, it only helps widen the gap. Like only focusing on Driver fitting and distance and not working on your pitching and putting game 🙄

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  • FW - TM M3 3-wood 15°, Project-X HZRDUS Red 6.0 75 gr. mid-spin
  • Hybrid - TM M4 19°, Project-X Evenflow Black 6.0S 85 gr. HY 
  • Irons - TM P790, 3-PW, Oban CT-115, PXG 311 P Gen 6
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1 hour ago, cnosil said:

Just watching the Valspar and there is a 43 yards difference between Rose and Fitzpatrick after their tee shots on 7.  I am sure this happens more than some will admit due to where the ball lands, course contours, and strategy

Right. I think there are many who are either under the impression that ALL Pros hit it 320 off the tee and hit their 8-iron 200, or they forget the distance differential exists on the tour as well, but the short guys contend. According to the stats Matt (ranked #67, 5 cuts of 7 events, 1 top 10, 0 wins for 2022-2023) averages 304 and Rose (ranked #20, 7 cuts of 9 events, 3 top 10, 1 win 2022-2023) averages 290;  so they already have a 15yd average differential. Like you noted, conditions, shot placement etc. all play a role in adding to or taking away from that.

Rory is one of the smallest players, but one of the longest (he is actually THE longest among the top 50 players list) and is has been a while since he has won (2 top 10 and  win for 2022-2023) He scores, but winning has been elusive. Love him or not Jordan Speith averages 302 and is erratic, but his short game is pure MAGIC. Scheffler blew several tee shots but his short game saved his @$$. I am sure many of us play with"that guy" who can blow it by all of us off the tee, but he cannot keep up in the rest of the game, and typically the consistency of their tee game may leave something to be desired.

According to stats on ESPN for 2022-2023, 4 of the top 50 average >310 yards driving; 26 of the top 50 average <300 yds off the tee (of those 26, 5 average <290).  Of the top 25 for driving accuracy only 3 average >300; of the top 50 in accuracy 9 average >300. Scheffler is #38 for accuracy. 

Maybe Nike will get back in the ball and club business if all this goes thru? 🤣

 

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6 hours ago, IzakFouche said:

I can not believe how small minded some people are.  Why not just narrow up the fairways, build smaller greens and grow out the rough.  Like real rough, not this hit me in the rough and the ball actually goes further.  Build smaller greens or at least narrow you cutting down for tournaments,  will put the focus back on accurate second shots.. Before anyone attacks me, I come from a green keeping background as well and you can my the golf courses so touch even pros will struggle.  Distance is not the problem.

If you have a greens keeping background, you would know how silly your ideas are.  Takes weeks to grow out the rough, more water, and chemicals,  Making a course unplayable for anyone else, all to get to one week a year.   Making smaller greens is not about just letting the edges grow in bunkers need moved etc.  The issue is not today, but 5 or 10 years from now, when there may be players who can fly it 400, what do you do when players are hitting it that far and chipping to anything less than 500 yds as a par 4, you fix the ball then?   The ball should have been fixed decades ago, the USGA changed the swing speed but did little to fix the overall distance standard that was the new limit..   

I dont believe in the end the manufactures will go for this, no ball no rule, but I do believe the USGA/RA are serious about protecting the game, keeping it sustainable and affordable, longer courses deeper rough are not sustainable solutions and not good for the game for the rest of us.  I think the push back from the MFC's will force them to reign it ALL legal balls, but come on what 20 hdcp will notice his or her 200yd bunt goes 10 yds shorter, most players dont hit it solid enough often enough to know.  Are you gonna quit or just move up a few yards  

Three, Albatross'

Three Holes in One

Plus, when I was 5 the first ball I ever hit on a golf course went in the hole, so I have that going for me.

My bag is a mish mash of Srixon drivers, cobra and adams fairways, TA1 irons and Hopkins wedges, plus a Cure putter.  

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On 2/2/2021 at 12:00 PM, Hook DeLoft said:

With major championships, they have to find a way to make older courses more difficult by making it much harder to score with a wedge in your hands.  That has led to the ridiculous setups of so many U.S. Open courses.  Remember the last time at Shinnecock when only shots that landed in a 5 foot circle were not punished?  At some point the pro game will be like watching a combo of a long drive contest and the national miniature golf championship. Without bifurcation, we will see 350 yard par 3's and no par 5's, there won't be room.  I recognize that there are others who will find that entertaining but count me out.

I’m not concerned if older courses fall out of rotation. They generally aren’t great stadium style courses or even have parking to handle large crowds. And the crowds come to see the bombers. Not to mention if the USGA wants to get “Everyman” to follow the game, why use courses that only the richest can play?  Sheffler played well enough to win The Players, but how many other bombers got booted to the side by the course?  Did they need a new ball there?  Begs again - who does the USGA represent?  Joe Average or old money private clubs?  Of course, it may come down to only “elite” USGA events using the elite ball. The PGA earns its money from entrance fees and TV contracts. Viewers watch for fireworks. Not most of the field laying up on par 5’s. Tin Cup said that 25 years ago.  
Just my opinion…

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35 minutes ago, Albatrossx3 said:

Making a course unplayable for anyone else, all to get to one week a year.   Making smaller greens is not about just letting the edges grow in bunkers need moved etc. 

some courses are shutdown the week or even two weeks before a pga event to setup. Congressional would close the course for two weeks before and also a couple weeks after most years. Those that are open the people playing are playing under the conditions being setup for the tournament so it’s not exactly unplayable but it’s not just a walk in the park. Even for the pros parts of tee boxes will be closed for the week of the tournament.

 

37 minutes ago, Albatrossx3 said:

The issue is not today, but 5 or 10 years from now, when there may be players who can fly it 400,

The current ball and equipment is capped so that’s just unrealistic and nonsense. Bryson who went full on in distance wasn’t hitting it that far and with the current limits there isn’t going to be people hitting it that far under the current equipment and ball limits.

 

39 minutes ago, Albatrossx3 said:

 The ball should have been fixed decades ago, the USGA changed the swing speed but did little to fix the overall distance standard that was the new limit..   

the usga and R&A wanted to grow the game and distance sells. Now they want to complain about distance after the fact which again isn’t the big deal they are making it out to be. It’s the people building new courses with the intent of hosting a pga event especially a major who are complaining and because money talks the usga and R&A are trying to help these owners and designers out

 

41 minutes ago, Albatrossx3 said:

I think the push back from the MFC's will force them to reign it ALL legal balls, but come on what 20 hdcp will notice his or her 200yd bunt goes 10 yds shorter, most players dont hit it solid enough often enough to know.  Are you gonna quit or just move up a few yards  

If you think someone wont notice a 10 year loss in distance especially when it goes from 200 to 190 you are fooling yourself. Everyone can tell when they have lost distance for whatever reason especially those who play the same course week in and week out. When they have to take an extra club on approach shots compared to what they are used to it’s very noticeable.

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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This may or not be the last thing I say on this topic, for at least today or for the next hour maybe...

The USGA and the R&A used to hold their Opens on courses that at best be described as shaggy. They did not have modern equipment to "groom" the course. Then over the last 40 years or so, the equipment has become very precise. The 2 governing bodies then headed in the directional philosophy of firm and fast, taking courses to and in some cases beyond how the course was designed to play. Dried baked out fairways and greens that stimp out to 13+. Folks running those organizations grew up in this new philosophy and won't consider other course setup options. Stubborn as all get out. Face it, both Opens have more historical years at shaggy than firm and fast. They have taken advantage of modern technology for course agronomy and now they want to cancel modern technology in club and ball design to foil what their philosophy has caused. Maybe they need to have a retro Open where they use agronomy equipment from the 1950's. Maybe, just maybe, 350 yard drives would not happen. The best golfer would still emerge. I wish they would stop referencing how they want the game to continue in a historical way when they brought this on themselves.

I am all in, "for the good of the game", for a retro Open. I would really like to see the next Open at the Old Course be set up with no modern equipment, and nothing but sheep manicuring the course for the couple of months prior to the tournament. Now that would be something.

Driver: Callaway Epic 9 degree, stiff (set at 10 degrees with the movable weight in the center}

FW: Callaway Epic 3,5, heaven wood w/ regular shaft (driver shaft in 3 wood, 3 wood shaft in 5 wood, 5 wood shaft in heaven wood, all three set at neutral plus 1 degree)

Hybrids: Callaway BB19 4,6,7 (4 set at neutral plus 1 degree and 6 and 7 set at neutral minus 1 degree for gapping purposes)

Irons: Callaway Rogue ST Max 8, 9, PW 

Wedges: Titleist Vokey SM6 50,54,58

Ball: Titleist Pro V1, 1X, Vice Pro Plus or anything I find that day and try out for the fun of it (I haven't bought balls with my own money in at least 10 years)

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4 hours ago, LICC said:

Bifurcation is already part of golf. Recreational players don't use the same tee boxes at anywhere near the lengths of the courses that pros play. 

Not sure what you are saying. As far as I know, there is no rule regarding what t box to play. Bifurcation in this instance is in relation to a rule that is different for elite players and the rest of us.

Driver: Callaway Epic 9 degree, stiff (set at 10 degrees with the movable weight in the center}

FW: Callaway Epic 3,5, heaven wood w/ regular shaft (driver shaft in 3 wood, 3 wood shaft in 5 wood, 5 wood shaft in heaven wood, all three set at neutral plus 1 degree)

Hybrids: Callaway BB19 4,6,7 (4 set at neutral plus 1 degree and 6 and 7 set at neutral minus 1 degree for gapping purposes)

Irons: Callaway Rogue ST Max 8, 9, PW 

Wedges: Titleist Vokey SM6 50,54,58

Ball: Titleist Pro V1, 1X, Vice Pro Plus or anything I find that day and try out for the fun of it (I haven't bought balls with my own money in at least 10 years)

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10 hours ago, Dog Faced Pony Soldier said:

I believe bifurcation will result in non-conforming equipment becoming more common and accepted by casual golfers. If bifurcation becomes reality, why would casual non-competitive players care if they had conforming grooves in their wedges, or an extra-capable driver? 

How many of them do now?!!!

Several years back a friend's father passed away.  In cleaning out the house, he gave me a trunk full of golf balls.  I threw most all of them away keeping only 2 dozen "The Hot One" balls as collectors' items.  Then there is the guy we all have played with that is constantly running that groove scoring tool on his irons.  Ya' think those clubs are conforming?  We are not pros.  Most of this stuff doesn't matter.  We play by stupid rules that say a provisional ball is useful when out of bounds but, not when unplayable and you're worrying about juiced drivers?

Z565 or Launcher Lite :: M6 3&5 woods :: Srixon hybrids :: Cleveland 588 TT irons :: CBX wedges :: midsize grips w/no glove

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36 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

The current ball and equipment is capped so that’s just unrealistic and nonsense. Bryson who went full on in distance wasn’t hitting it that far and with the current limits there isn’t going to be people hitting it that far under the current equipment and ball limits.

 

 Apparently you know nothing about the rules,  There IS NO CAP on the ball, there is a standard and it is based upon certain conditions.  Previously the ODS was something like 289 yds at a certain swing speed,   that was changed to the current ODS of 317 yds at 120 mph swing speed, exceed that swing speed and the ball goes farther.  All you need to do is look at the WLD and see how far they hit it, and understand that will be tour pros as the keep getting stronger, larger and better unless something is done to reign the ball in.     The USGA has determined that biomechanics has a limit of around 145 mph, whether anyone can reach that is debatable but come on 130 is definitely in reach, 

Three, Albatross'

Three Holes in One

Plus, when I was 5 the first ball I ever hit on a golf course went in the hole, so I have that going for me.

My bag is a mish mash of Srixon drivers, cobra and adams fairways, TA1 irons and Hopkins wedges, plus a Cure putter.  

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43 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

some courses are shutdown the week or even two weeks before a pga event to setup. Congressional would close the course for two weeks before and also a couple weeks after most years. Those that are open the people playing are playing under the conditions being setup for the tournament so it’s not exactly unplayable but it’s not just a walk in the park. Even for the pros parts of tee boxes will be closed for the week of the tournament.

I played Firestone S about 2 weeks before the WSOG around 1990  the rough was 6 inches and took weeks to grow, it does not happen in 2 weeks.   I caddied one year at the WSOG the average golfer could not hit it out of the rough, is that what you want on your vacation to a tour stop resort like this week at Copperhead.  

Three, Albatross'

Three Holes in One

Plus, when I was 5 the first ball I ever hit on a golf course went in the hole, so I have that going for me.

My bag is a mish mash of Srixon drivers, cobra and adams fairways, TA1 irons and Hopkins wedges, plus a Cure putter.  

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46 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

some courses are shutdown the week or even two weeks before a pga event to setup. Congressional would close the course for two weeks before and also a couple weeks after most years. Those that are open the people playing are playing under the conditions being setup for the tournament so it’s not exactly unplayable but it’s not just a walk in the park. Even for the pros parts of tee boxes will be closed for the week of the tournament.

 

The current ball and equipment is capped so that’s just unrealistic and nonsense. Bryson who went full on in distance wasn’t hitting it that far and with the current limits there isn’t going to be people hitting it that far under the current equipment and ball limits.

 

the usga and R&A wanted to grow the game and distance sells. Now they want to complain about distance after the fact which again isn’t the big deal they are making it out to be. It’s the people building new courses with the intent of hosting a pga event especially a major who are complaining and because money talks the usga and R&A are trying to help these owners and designers out

 

If you think someone wont notice a 10 year loss in distance especially when it goes from 200 to 190 you are fooling yourself. Everyone can tell when they have lost distance for whatever reason especially those who play the same course week in and week out. When they have to take an extra club on approach shots compared to what they are used to it’s very noticeable.

Again are you going to quit if the ball goes a little shorter, or are you going to learn how to hit it better.  

Three, Albatross'

Three Holes in One

Plus, when I was 5 the first ball I ever hit on a golf course went in the hole, so I have that going for me.

My bag is a mish mash of Srixon drivers, cobra and adams fairways, TA1 irons and Hopkins wedges, plus a Cure putter.  

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2 hours ago, Dog Faced Pony Soldier said:

This is why the promise that only elite competitors will be impacted is poppycock. 

It's a "local rule".  If only the US Open and British Open adopt it, it only impacts elites.  That doesn't even consider the fact that should your local muni adopt the rule, you will ignore it ANYWAY!  Just like you did with your long putter and the no-anchoring rule change.

Z565 or Launcher Lite :: M6 3&5 woods :: Srixon hybrids :: Cleveland 588 TT irons :: CBX wedges :: midsize grips w/no glove

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4 hours ago, Andrew75 said:

If they roll it back it should be for everyone. I'm a short hitter who plays usga senior type events. Distance has been overprivileged in golf for too long. Hitting it arrow straight should have it's day now.  The ball companies will likely sue. 

Why can't you hit the ball arrow straight with the current ball/s?

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44 minutes ago, mardukes said:

How many of them do now?!!!

Several years back a friend's father passed away.  In cleaning out the house, he gave me a trunk full of golf balls.  I threw most all of them away keeping only 2 dozen "The Hot One" balls as collectors' items.  Then there is the guy we all have played with that is constantly running that groove scoring tool on his irons.  Ya' think those clubs are conforming?  We are not pros.  Most of this stuff doesn't matter.  We play by stupid rules that say a provisional ball is useful when out of bounds but, not when unplayable and you're worrying about juiced drivers?

Notice my quote didn’t include any estimate of how much non conforming equipment is in play now. Instead I predicted that bifurcation will result in non conforming equipment will become much more common. Right now I don’t know anyone who admits to going out and purchasing non conforming equipment, but I think bifurcation will make the practice much more accepted. Non conforming equipment actually might even help the game build popularity. 

Driver: :titelist-small: TSR3 w/ LA Golf DJ Signature Series (65-4)

3w: :srixon-small: ZX MKII w/ Graphite Design AD DI-7 XS

5w: :srixon-small: ZX MKII w/ Graphite Design AD DI-7 XS

7w: :srixon-small: ZX MKII w/ Graphite Design AD DI-7 XS

4i-GW: :mizuno-small: JPX921 Forged w/ Nippon Modus Tour 105 S

54º: :vokey-small: SM9 D Grind w/ Nippon Modus Tour 105 S

Putter: :EVNROLL: ER5vB w/ LA Golf P-Series SOHO 

Ball: :titelist-small: ProV1x  play #45

Ball mark: Kraken Golf - Revolver, Weight Plate, Turntable

Tracked and scored by :Arccos: 

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1 hour ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

If you think someone wont notice a 10 year loss in distance especially when it goes from 200 to 190 you are fooling yourself. Everyone can tell when they have lost distance for whatever reason especially those who play the same course week in and week out. When they have to take an extra club on approach shots compared to what they are used to it’s very noticeable.

I can personally attest to this being a fact.

Edited by silver & black
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48 minutes ago, Albatrossx3 said:

 Apparently you know nothing about the rules,  There IS NO CAP on the ball, there is a standard and it is based upon certain conditions.  Previously the ODS was something like 289 yds at a certain swing speed,   that was changed to the current ODS of 317 yds at 120 mph swing speed, exceed that swing speed and the ball goes farther.  All you need to do is look at the WLD and see how far they hit it, and understand that will be tour pros as the keep getting stronger, larger and better unless something is done to reign the ball in.     The USGA has determined that biomechanics has a limit of around 145 mph, whether anyone can reach that is debatable but come on 130 is definitely in reach, 

The ODS is what all golf balls have to conform so that is the standard Amit shaft the new MLR is changing. So yes the ball is capped to what the ODS is.

The WLD guys have to only get one ball in the grid they don’t have to worry about making a score with their shots. There is also a reason the long drive guys don’t make it on tour, they don’t have the requisite skill set to score so no there won’t be guys hitting the ball 400 yards on a consistent basis on the tour in 10,20,40 years. The current drivers don’t work well with balls that go the speed of elite level long drive competitors. It’s why Bryson is constantly trying to find a driver that works. At those speeds when the ball misses the sweet spot it’s hard to control.

49 minutes ago, Albatrossx3 said:

Again are you going to quit if the ball goes a little shorter, or are you going to learn how to hit it better.  

As of right now there won’t be a need to switch because it’s a MLR and there will still be the current balls to play for recreational golfers and more than likely if the manufacturers may not even make it and force the usga and R&A to find their own solution for providing the ball.

 Whether one adjusts to less distance or not has nothing to do with me telling you that when you say a 20 hdcp who hits the ball 200 yards right now will notice a 10 yard loss of distance and that anyone who plays notices a 10 yard loss of distance regardless of how far they hit it. 
 

Adjusting to the loss of distance is different than noticing loss of distance 

46 minutes ago, Albatrossx3 said:

I played Firestone S about 2 weeks before the WSOG around 1990  the rough was 6 inches and took weeks to grow, it does not happen in 2 weeks.   I caddied one year at the WSOG the average golfer could not hit it out of the rough, is that what you want on your vacation to a tour stop resort like this week at Copperhead.  

Outside of a U.S. Open very rarely is rough that thick for any PGA tour event and in most cases is the very opposite and let’s not compare 1990 to 2023.

instead of the PGA cutting the fairways low and not watering them as much or cutting the rough down all they need to do is keep the fairways either at the length they normally play for the members/public or somewhere in between and then 20+ yards of roll out will be gone. Same with the rough, don’t cut it down and let it stay the same length it is all year round and it changes the distance off the tee and the lack of challenge coming out of the rough 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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49 minutes ago, mardukes said:

It's a "local rule".  If only the US Open and British Open adopt it, it only impacts elites.  That doesn't even consider the fact that should your local muni adopt the rule, you will ignore it ANYWAY!  Just like you did with your long putter and the no-anchoring rule change.

It will trickle down from the professional tour to top level amateur events and then down to top level junior events which btw ajga is rumored to be onboard with the mlr so there’s already indication it’s going to be used at the junior level.

And if it’s a mixed bag of events at junior and amateur level is creates more chaos because you have different events using different balls and those involved will be switching balls and probably equipment and constantly adjusting.

When all that happens then it makes it’s way into club championships and trickles down to it becoming the ball everyone will be using. 
 

 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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6 hours ago, LICC said:

It would be within 2-3% probably. Strength training does little to increase distance on any given swing. The equipment is the predominant factor. There have been several examples of today's players trying older equipment, and they all basically hit the balls the same distance as players did back when the equipment was being used. You can also look at the Champions tour and how much massively farther those same players hit it now compared to 25-30 years ago. They don't gain physical strength and speed in their 50s compared to their 20s.

Bryson?! He went from averaging 291 to 310 (lead the tour that year) over a single off season by adding nearly 50 lbs and bulking up. I wonder what equipment innovation that happened in 2020 that saw only him add 20 yards to his average? Hmmmm

BTW, all of those examples of having current pros hit a handful of shots with old equipment vs past results from HOF golfers who were tuned in with that equipment is not a realistic comparison. Give the new guys time to adapt and the results will be very different. 

:titelist-small:  TS2 9.5

:titelist-small:  909F2 15.5

:titelist-small:  690.CB 3-PW

:titelist-small:  Vokey SM5 50, 56

image.png.e50b7e7a9b18feff4720d7b223a2013d.png   Works Versa 1W

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2 hours ago, Albatrossx3 said:

Again are you going to quit if the ball goes a little shorter, or are you going to learn how to hit it better.  

Quit, no. But I’m running out of tee boxes to move up to at 73  Averaging just under 200 yards, 10 less yards takes a 350 yard hole out of play. 370 is already a 3 stroke to the green. Already working hard to keep what I have/had. 

Titleist TSR 11 degree, HZRDS Red R 44.75 LH

Titleist TSR-1 5/7 Woods LH

Titleist TSR-1 23 Hybrid LH

Titleist T200  7-48 - T350 6 Tensai AMT Red LH

 Titleist SM9 50-54-58 TT AMT Red LH

Scotty Phantom X 7.5 RH

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1 hour ago, storm319 said:

Bryson?! He went from averaging 291 to 310 (lead the tour that year) over a single off season by adding nearly 50 lbs and bulking up. I wonder what equipment innovation that happened in 2020 that saw only him add 20 yards to his average? Hmmmm

BTW, all of those examples of having current pros hit a handful of shots with old equipment vs past results from HOF golfers who were tuned in with that equipment is not a realistic comparison. Give the new guys time to adapt and the results will be very different. 

Bryson gained distance from changing his swing. He kept bulking and didn’t gain any further distance. Then he slimmed down because he wasn’t healthy and still hit long distances. 

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2 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

As of right now there won’t be a need to switch because it’s a MLR and there will still be the current balls to play for recreational golfers

Recreational golfers: read that.... 99% of ALL golfers in the world. Without all of us recreational golfers, the sport/game would not exist. All of this nonsense over rolling back the ball and whatever else nonsense the "powers that be" come up with for 1% of golfers in the world is just complete nonsense.

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