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Speed training experiment: looking for guinea pigs


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I've had a question for a while. It occured to me this morning that, perhaps, the golf forum I moderate might help me find an answer.

Obviously, increasing swing speed and distance is a hot topic in golf right now. While DeChambeau has been a lightning rod for much of the discussion, SuperSpeed started showing up in Tour player bags even a few years before that. They've certainly established themselves as the major players in the "how to gain speed" space. Just this past week, two very respected engineer/scientists (Sasho MacKenzie and Marty Jertsen) went public with their new swing speed device and app: The Stack System, which looks very intriguing (but very pricey).

It seems to me that increasing swing speed is a function of (at least) three things:

  • Increased fitness
  • More efficient mechanics
  • Breaking psychological limits

To clarify the last one: that has really been a major part of SuperSpeed's argument. The idea is that we are physically capable of swinging faster than we do, and by swinging something lighter than our drivers, we are able to convince our brains to allow us to obtain those faster speeds.

My question is: how much does each of these factors contribute to swing speed increases?

A couple weeks ago, I tweeted this:

I'm absolutely up for tweaking the format here. But I'm intrigued by the idea, and I'd love to get volunteers for the different components to see what results occur. I probably should have rolled this out back in November as an off-season idea, and it's still possible that we set this up over this summer and actually roll it out for off-season 2021-2022.

Does anyone have any interest in being a guinea pig? Or any suggestions for changing up what is tested here?

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I don't mind being a guinea pig.....I can even whistle!!

I have been doing a version of this lately.  I am doing some fitness / flexibility work and using home made speed sticks in a modified protocol.  My speed stick protocol is to swing high speed with the 3 sticks about 10 swings each right handed (normal for me) and about 5 swings with the heavy weight left handed.  I don't have a radar here but plan to do a sim session monthly to see the hopefully improving speed.  I did the baseline sim last week and will judge improvements off those numbers.

Modern Bag:  :ping-small: G410 LST 10.5*, Hzrdus Smoke RDX 6.5 Flex;   :titelist-small:  915F 3w, Diamana S+ 70 S flex;  Snake Eyes 18* 2h, 23* 4h & 27* 5h; :mizuno-small: JPX 900 Forged 6 - PW, PX LZ 6.0;  Edison 2.0 49*, 53*, 57* KBS Tour 120 S;   :ping-small:  Heppler Fetch;  Ball - :Snell: MTB-X; Bag - Jones MyGolfSpy Edition! 

Shot Scope H4, MG600 Rangefinder

Classic Bag:  Driver - :wilson_staff_small: Persimmon; 3w - :Hogan: Speed Slot; 5w - :wilson_staff_small: Tour Block; 3 - pw - :wilson_staff_small: Dynapower; sw - Ram Tom Watson;  putter - bullseye standard or flange.

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2 minutes ago, Shapotomous said:

I don't mind being a guinea pig.....I can even whistle!!

I have been doing a version of this lately.  I am doing some fitness / flexibility work and using home made speed sticks in a modified protocol.  My speed stick protocol is to swing high speed with the 3 sticks about 10 swings each right handed (normal for me) and about 5 swings with the heavy weight left handed.  I don't have a radar here but plan to do a sim session monthly to see the hopefully improving speed.  I did the baseline sim last week and will judge improvements off those numbers.

Perfect! Yep, obviously, we'll need everyone to check in periodically with something measure speed, both a baseline and a final check-in at least. But I'm especially interested in the results of those who are practicing with and without immediate feedback.

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:callaway-small: Epic Super Hybrid 18°, Aerotech Steel Fiber FC HYB S
:755178188_TourEdge: C722 21°, Ventus Blue 8S
:touredgeexotics: CBX Iron-Wood 25°, Project X HZRDUS Black 6.0
:Sub70: 639 CB, Aldila NV 95 Graphite, 6–PW
:cleveland-small: CBX 48°
:mizuno-small: T22 54° and 60°
:edel-golf-1: EAS 4.0, Garsen G-Pro grip
:taylormade-small: TP5x and Tour Response

Full WITB with pictures

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Hahahahahahaha! 😂😂😂😂 I didn’t have my reading glasses on when I saw the title of this thread, so I read it as “Sequined Guinea Pigs”!!!

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1 minute ago, PMookie said:

Hahahahahahaha! 😂😂😂😂 I didn’t have my reading glasses on when I saw the title of this thread, so I read it as “Sequined Guinea Pigs”!!!

I don't have a bedazzled golf hat but I am willing to try it if it helps my SS!!  🤣

Modern Bag:  :ping-small: G410 LST 10.5*, Hzrdus Smoke RDX 6.5 Flex;   :titelist-small:  915F 3w, Diamana S+ 70 S flex;  Snake Eyes 18* 2h, 23* 4h & 27* 5h; :mizuno-small: JPX 900 Forged 6 - PW, PX LZ 6.0;  Edison 2.0 49*, 53*, 57* KBS Tour 120 S;   :ping-small:  Heppler Fetch;  Ball - :Snell: MTB-X; Bag - Jones MyGolfSpy Edition! 

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Classic Bag:  Driver - :wilson_staff_small: Persimmon; 3w - :Hogan: Speed Slot; 5w - :wilson_staff_small: Tour Block; 3 - pw - :wilson_staff_small: Dynapower; sw - Ram Tom Watson;  putter - bullseye standard or flange.

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1 minute ago, PMookie said:

Hahahahahahaha! 😂😂😂😂 I didn’t have my reading glasses on when I saw the title of this thread, so I read it as “Sequined Guinea Pigs”!!!

The sequins are on the Divot Board. That's another test entirely 🙂

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:755178188_TourEdge: C722 21°, Ventus Blue 8S
:touredgeexotics: CBX Iron-Wood 25°, Project X HZRDUS Black 6.0
:Sub70: 639 CB, Aldila NV 95 Graphite, 6–PW
:cleveland-small: CBX 48°
:mizuno-small: T22 54° and 60°
:edel-golf-1: EAS 4.0, Garsen G-Pro grip
:taylormade-small: TP5x and Tour Response

Full WITB with pictures

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i’m down to be a test subject!!

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2 minutes ago, Chip Strokes said:

i’m down to be a test subject!!

Which category?

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:755178188_TourEdge: CBX T3 15°, Project X HZRDUS Black
:callaway-small: Epic Super Hybrid 18°, Aerotech Steel Fiber FC HYB S
:755178188_TourEdge: C722 21°, Ventus Blue 8S
:touredgeexotics: CBX Iron-Wood 25°, Project X HZRDUS Black 6.0
:Sub70: 639 CB, Aldila NV 95 Graphite, 6–PW
:cleveland-small: CBX 48°
:mizuno-small: T22 54° and 60°
:edel-golf-1: EAS 4.0, Garsen G-Pro grip
:taylormade-small: TP5x and Tour Response

Full WITB with pictures

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3 minutes ago, Chip Strokes said:

i’m down to be a test subject!!

Dude....If you get any faster you're gonna shatter your clubs!!   🦾   😜

Modern Bag:  :ping-small: G410 LST 10.5*, Hzrdus Smoke RDX 6.5 Flex;   :titelist-small:  915F 3w, Diamana S+ 70 S flex;  Snake Eyes 18* 2h, 23* 4h & 27* 5h; :mizuno-small: JPX 900 Forged 6 - PW, PX LZ 6.0;  Edison 2.0 49*, 53*, 57* KBS Tour 120 S;   :ping-small:  Heppler Fetch;  Ball - :Snell: MTB-X; Bag - Jones MyGolfSpy Edition! 

Shot Scope H4, MG600 Rangefinder

Classic Bag:  Driver - :wilson_staff_small: Persimmon; 3w - :Hogan: Speed Slot; 5w - :wilson_staff_small: Tour Block; 3 - pw - :wilson_staff_small: Dynapower; sw - Ram Tom Watson;  putter - bullseye standard or flange.

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3 minutes ago, GolfSpy MPR said:

Which category?

id love to try the speed sticks, but considering i don't have them...or a radar...i guess id be in the driver swings group.

unless someone felt like loaning me speed sticks for the experiment

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This would be a good follow. Seems like you’d need to get a bunch who haven’t done anything yet for speed training.

Unless someone can figure out a way to make your brain/body redo the gains for the first phase of SuperSpeed. I’d be all in for another big boost! Haha

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9 minutes ago, Shapotomous said:

Dude....If you get any faster you're gonna shatter your clubs!!   🦾   😜

haha im still fast, but definitely down a few MPH, so i think the SIM is safe for now.  having a baby and moving pretty much put a full stop on working out, which is where all my speed came from.  couple that with not swinging a club in over a month and, well, here we are.

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I'd be willing to play.  Anything but the working out only option because I already do that.  However, even the non-radar tests need access to radar for the starting and end swing speed numbers.  

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I’d try the working out method: I’m 15 workouts into a 90 workout program with a personal trainer. So far I swing slower than usual the day after a workout, but I’m hitting it much better...


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I could jump on this. For the 100 swings is that dry swings? and every day?

Tough in the snow is all!

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Well MPR I literally just restarted Swing speed yesterday havent touch them for nearly a year. I have a radar too so ill gladly give some updates.
My dad did start speed sticks as well and he doesn't have a radar I can try and see if I can get him to get some way to track once a month or so.


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3 hours ago, GolfSpy MPR said:

I've had a question for a while. It occured to me this morning that, perhaps, the golf forum I moderate might help me find an answer.

Obviously, increasing swing speed and distance is a hot topic in golf right now. While DeChambeau has been a lightning rod for much of the discussion, SuperSpeed started showing up in Tour player bags even a few years before that. They've certainly established themselves as the major players in the "how to gain speed" space. Just this past week, two very respected engineer/scientists (Sasho MacKenzie and Marty Jertsen) went public with their new swing speed device and app: The Stack System, which looks very intriguing (but very pricey).

It seems to me that increasing swing speed is a function of (at least) three things:

  • Increased fitness
  • More efficient mechanics
  • Breaking psychological limits

To clarify the last one: that has really been a major part of SuperSpeed's argument. The idea is that we are physically capable of swinging faster than we do, and by swinging something lighter than our drivers, we are able to convince our brains to allow us to obtain those faster speeds.

My question is: how much does each of these factors contribute to swing speed increases?

A couple weeks ago, I tweeted this:

I'm absolutely up for tweaking the format here. But I'm intrigued by the idea, and I'd love to get volunteers for the different components to see what results occur. I probably should have rolled this out back in November as an off-season idea, and it's still possible that we set this up over this summer and actually roll it out for off-season 2021-2022.

Does anyone have any interest in being a guinea pig? Or any suggestions for changing up what is tested here?

So I think this is a great idea but there are some challenges.  (And I'd love to participate but that train left the station a while ago...been SuperSpeed'ing and working out for a while now... Getoffmylawn's Need for Speed - Lessons, Drills, Mental Game, and Fitness Tips - MyGolfSpy Forum )

I know I'm probably not saying anything you don't already know, but we'd need a decent number of participants in each category to be statistically relevant and eliminate outliers.  Different people have different muscle fiber compositions for example...responses to working out or SuperSpeed are going to be highly variable.  

I'd also specify what "working out" means...maybe neck it down to weight training, or perhaps see if someone wants to start a Fit for Golf program?  I'm just making the point that one person could start a BodyPump class at the Y and another start an Olympic lifting program, and both would be considered "working" out but offer drastically different benefits.

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If you add the Orange Whip users into the challenge then you could have a team against team option as well.

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Would be happy to help though I am already through two levels of Super Speed that I did with some lifting, though overall that part was less consistent and likely did not help much. The thread linked in my signatures has a like to the tracking data I collected for Super Speed feel free to add it to anyone else who can participate.

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3 hours ago, Tom the Golf Nut said:

If you add the Orange Whip users into the challenge then you could have a team against team option as well.

Funny, I was just thinking the same thing. I use the OW as a warm-up to the SS sticks. My fitter is convinced that if you use the OW everyday you'll dramatically improve your SS 

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My workout regime today is shoveling snow.....leg and upper body exercise along with a little cardio!    ⛄

The speed stick work happens later when i get the path to the pole barn shoveled.

Modern Bag:  :ping-small: G410 LST 10.5*, Hzrdus Smoke RDX 6.5 Flex;   :titelist-small:  915F 3w, Diamana S+ 70 S flex;  Snake Eyes 18* 2h, 23* 4h & 27* 5h; :mizuno-small: JPX 900 Forged 6 - PW, PX LZ 6.0;  Edison 2.0 49*, 53*, 57* KBS Tour 120 S;   :ping-small:  Heppler Fetch;  Ball - :Snell: MTB-X; Bag - Jones MyGolfSpy Edition! 

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On 2/10/2021 at 11:14 AM, GolfSpy MPR said:

I've had a question for a while. It occured to me this morning that, perhaps, the golf forum I moderate might help me find an answer.

Obviously, increasing swing speed and distance is a hot topic in golf right now. While DeChambeau has been a lightning rod for much of the discussion, SuperSpeed started showing up in Tour player bags even a few years before that. They've certainly established themselves as the major players in the "how to gain speed" space. Just this past week, two very respected engineer/scientists (Sasho MacKenzie and Marty Jertsen) went public with their new swing speed device and app: The Stack System, which looks very intriguing (but very pricey).

It seems to me that increasing swing speed is a function of (at least) three things:

  • Increased fitness
  • More efficient mechanics
  • Breaking psychological limits

To clarify the last one: that has really been a major part of SuperSpeed's argument. The idea is that we are physically capable of swinging faster than we do, and by swinging something lighter than our drivers, we are able to convince our brains to allow us to obtain those faster speeds.

My question is: how much does each of these factors contribute to swing speed increases?

A couple weeks ago, I tweeted this:

I'm absolutely up for tweaking the format here. But I'm intrigued by the idea, and I'd love to get volunteers for the different components to see what results occur. I probably should have rolled this out back in November as an off-season idea, and it's still possible that we set this up over this summer and actually roll it out for off-season 2021-2022.

Does anyone have any interest in being a guinea pig? Or any suggestions for changing up what is tested here?

I’d like to be in on this. Indoor know if it helps but modifying the weight lifting group to exercise to include strength and flexibility. I think it would have to be up to 5 days a week to really see any meaningful gains unless you were doing the same workout 3 days a week only

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A source of error would be mixing people who golf year round and those who do not among the groups if the testing/training happens over winter. Especially for the group just doing driver swings. You could make 50-200+ driver swings per week while playing/practicing during the season. Adding the swings off-season could be either an increase or decrease for that person's workload based on in-season work. If someone down South adds 300 driver swings per week on top of range work and playing 3 times a week, maybe they just fatigue and lose speed. But gains will be limited if you go from swinging a golf club 4 days a week to 7 days a week. 

You also need to assume you will lose 5-10% of the participants over the 10 weeks because they will not complete the minimum number of workouts and then contaminate the results. You could also have outliers - someone who gains 12 mph CHS and everyone else averages 3. If you roll the outlier into the the group, it boosts the entire group average 1-2 MPH unless you have ~20 people in each of the 5 groups. Being able to compare the data with and without these outliers is helpful and further increases the numbers needed for testing. 

Ideally, you would want more than 20 per group which would still be considered tiny for any statistical significance. Anything of 10 or less becomes very difficult to draw any meaning from especially as you lose 1-2 people per group. 

:ping-small: G425 MAX Driver & 5W

:cobra-small: Baffler Rail-H 3H-4H

:Sub70: 699 Pro Utility V2 - 4i

:callaway-small: APEX CF19 6-AW

INDI Wedges 52, 56, 60 

 :edel-golf-1: EAS 2.0

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After missing a few days because life & weather got in the way, I got back to the exercise work and speed stick swings this morning. 

I am planning a simulator session next week to get some numbers to compare to the session I did a few weeks ago.  I feel stronger based on the number of reps and that it is easier to do the work so I am interested to see if it translates to swing speed.

Modern Bag:  :ping-small: G410 LST 10.5*, Hzrdus Smoke RDX 6.5 Flex;   :titelist-small:  915F 3w, Diamana S+ 70 S flex;  Snake Eyes 18* 2h, 23* 4h & 27* 5h; :mizuno-small: JPX 900 Forged 6 - PW, PX LZ 6.0;  Edison 2.0 49*, 53*, 57* KBS Tour 120 S;   :ping-small:  Heppler Fetch;  Ball - :Snell: MTB-X; Bag - Jones MyGolfSpy Edition! 

Shot Scope H4, MG600 Rangefinder

Classic Bag:  Driver - :wilson_staff_small: Persimmon; 3w - :Hogan: Speed Slot; 5w - :wilson_staff_small: Tour Block; 3 - pw - :wilson_staff_small: Dynapower; sw - Ram Tom Watson;  putter - bullseye standard or flange.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I've been on the weight training DL for about a week or so after chopping the ice in the driveway did some damage to my right wrist.  I am still doing stretching and even swinging the club slowly to keep the back and shoulders loose, no speed stick swings though.

Modern Bag:  :ping-small: G410 LST 10.5*, Hzrdus Smoke RDX 6.5 Flex;   :titelist-small:  915F 3w, Diamana S+ 70 S flex;  Snake Eyes 18* 2h, 23* 4h & 27* 5h; :mizuno-small: JPX 900 Forged 6 - PW, PX LZ 6.0;  Edison 2.0 49*, 53*, 57* KBS Tour 120 S;   :ping-small:  Heppler Fetch;  Ball - :Snell: MTB-X; Bag - Jones MyGolfSpy Edition! 

Shot Scope H4, MG600 Rangefinder

Classic Bag:  Driver - :wilson_staff_small: Persimmon; 3w - :Hogan: Speed Slot; 5w - :wilson_staff_small: Tour Block; 3 - pw - :wilson_staff_small: Dynapower; sw - Ram Tom Watson;  putter - bullseye standard or flange.

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I don't mind playing along and helping where I can. I have started 5 days a week yoga and could add an element of this to a routine.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using MyGolfSpy mobile app

:wilson_staff_small: Triton 10.5 degree regular flex
:taylormade-small: R580 3 & 5 stiff flex 
1700984641_Screenshot2021-02-09at1_22_31PM.png.826d2fd278c265f02c50f581ec750bf5.png Inazone Single Length 4H
:cobra-small: 5i-SW Cobra Fmax ONE Length regular flex steel
:ping-small: Sigma 2 Tyne 4 
:ping-small: 2021 Hoofer 

image.jpeg.f0b1d1d2bc3b2ec6880dd6c9a3b096e9.jpeg   image.jpeg.231a9c2f1e7b1dc46388ceac1039351a.jpeg     image.png.32ebfd5998dc591ff68ab71bb6d09b08.png

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I did a speed stick session last night and had no issues with the wrist so that is back on the schedule.  I tried some light weights but could still feel the strain so I am waiting another few days to start that back up.  

Modern Bag:  :ping-small: G410 LST 10.5*, Hzrdus Smoke RDX 6.5 Flex;   :titelist-small:  915F 3w, Diamana S+ 70 S flex;  Snake Eyes 18* 2h, 23* 4h & 27* 5h; :mizuno-small: JPX 900 Forged 6 - PW, PX LZ 6.0;  Edison 2.0 49*, 53*, 57* KBS Tour 120 S;   :ping-small:  Heppler Fetch;  Ball - :Snell: MTB-X; Bag - Jones MyGolfSpy Edition! 

Shot Scope H4, MG600 Rangefinder

Classic Bag:  Driver - :wilson_staff_small: Persimmon; 3w - :Hogan: Speed Slot; 5w - :wilson_staff_small: Tour Block; 3 - pw - :wilson_staff_small: Dynapower; sw - Ram Tom Watson;  putter - bullseye standard or flange.

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I'm envious of you guys with still supple spines, I don't think my back would hold up under an increased swing speed program. While this does appear to be the wave of future of golf training, there is a physiological component to this as well. I believe we are going to see more & more back injuries from the increased torque of swinging faster. A bigger concern is novice golfers who want to swing faster, but confuse swinging harder with swinging faster.

Driver: :cobra-small: Speed Zone 9* HZRDUS Smoke Yellow Shaft

3 Wood: :cobra-small: King Speedzone 13.5* HZRDUS Smoke Black Shaft

2 & 3 Hybrids: :cobra-small: Speedzone Recoil 480 ESX Shaft

Irons: :cobra-small: Speedzone 5-GW Recoil 460 ESX Shafts

Wedges::callaway-logo-1: PM Grind 54* & 58*

Putter: :odyssey-small: Dual Force Rossi II

Ball: Whatever I find in the woods

:Arccos:

HCP:18

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I plan to grab some speed sticks once I can get back to it.  It'll be about 7 more weeks however, so I'll follow along from afar until then.  I hope to get all in with lifting and cardio as well.  I'll try to ensure I track everything I'm doing.   

I'm one of those that tends to lose about 5% of my swing speed over the winter, but usually get it back around June/July.  Might be a little bit later this year since I'll be much later in my start due to this injury.  

It'll be interesting to me how this affects my ball speed, dispersion, spin, and distance as I've never tried a program specifically tailored to golf.  I'm wondering if I don't change my attack angle (steep with driver) if I'll just spin the ball even more and not get much distance gain.  I usually don't correlate my working out to golf, but just to get rid of this dad bod a little bit.

Driver:  image.png.3c6db1120d888f669e07d4a8f890b3f1.pngMavrik Sub Zero 9* (Set to 10) Ventus Blue 6X

2 Hybrid: :titelist-small: TSI3 Hybrid Tensei Blue 80 X (17.25*)

3 Hybrid :titelist-small: 818 H2 Hybrid Hzrdus RDX Black 6.5 (20.5*)

4 Iron -  :titelist-small: T200 4 Iron Graphite Design Tour AD IZ X Hybrid Shaft

Irons 5-PW:  :titelist-small: T100-S 5 - GW KBS Tour 130 X

Gap/Sand Wedge:  :titelist-small: Vokey SM6 49*  SM8 54* 

Lob Wedge:  image.png.3c6db1120d888f669e07d4a8f890b3f1.pngJaws 5 Wedge 58* DG Tour Issue Stiff

Putter:   :scotty-small: Phantom 5.5 34"      Pro Platinum Newport 2 35"      Taylormade Tour Black Spider 34"

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Looks like we're also going to need to add a tester with the new Stack system as well.

:titleist-small: TS3 9.5°, Tensei Blue
:755178188_TourEdge: CBX T3 15°, Project X HZRDUS Black
:callaway-small: Epic Super Hybrid 18°, Aerotech Steel Fiber FC HYB S
:755178188_TourEdge: C722 21°, Ventus Blue 8S
:touredgeexotics: CBX Iron-Wood 25°, Project X HZRDUS Black 6.0
:Sub70: 639 CB, Aldila NV 95 Graphite, 6–PW
:cleveland-small: CBX 48°
:mizuno-small: T22 54° and 60°
:edel-golf-1: EAS 4.0, Garsen G-Pro grip
:taylormade-small: TP5x and Tour Response

Full WITB with pictures

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