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Tee Height Test Discussion Thread


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24 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

For those of you who tee it high, do you ground the driver as part of your set-up routine?  Keep in mind the lab test was conducted with robots and they have no pre-shot routine... unless Tony programmed one in 🤔.  I've been experimenting with not grounding my driver and thus far it just feels odd and the results inconsistent.

If you are talking about this lab test, it was not done with robots.  Trust me,  I am not a robot  🤣

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29 minutes ago, cnosil said:

If you are talking about this lab test, it was not done with robots.  Trust me,  I am not a robot  🤣

Oh fudge.  I saw the video in the title page and presumed it was with robot testing.  Thanks for clarifying.  

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If you are talking about this lab test, it was not done with robots.  Trust me,  I am not a robot  [emoji1787]

But how do WE know you’re not a robot? Has anyone ever actually met you? Would you know that you are a robot? Or would that go against your programming? [emoji848][emoji848][emoji848]


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The evidence comes in right at the end of the loop video clip.  The swing looked so good I just assumed it wasn't you 🤣.

image.png.23a58cc8c3c33335644245a8c8bbe863.png

 

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No doubt that teeing the ball higher and hitting with an upward angle of attack is the answer for more distance. For me, as has been mentioned in the thread, it’s important to get the tee height consistent, and to know what height allows you the upward angle of attack while being able to make center-face contact.  

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The tee height test was interesting? Do you know what the average tee height is on the PGA Tour? The Riviera Country Club seems to be getting the best of some of the best. Hopefully you submit your findings to the USGA,R&A & PGA. I have a question. There are standards that clubs & ball must meet to be approved. If these standards remain the same then how is more distance achieved? Physicality has something to do with it as Bryson have proven. Other than that if the clubs & balls all meet the requirements what do the Golfing Governing Bodies contribute to the gain in distance?

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The tee height test data is quite accurate for my slow swing.  I get the most distance with the ball teed up high, but as the test data shows, I pay a price in accuracy.  My AoA is 4-5º.  If I tee the ball low, which I do for certain shots, I generally miss low on the face with a big loss of distance, unless I make more of an "iron swing".

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The win for fairways hit with the taller tee seems to go against common perception/instruction. Lower tee height should lower launch, decrease distance, and increase spin but all three of those should contribute to more accuracy/fairways hit. 

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10 hours ago, cnosil said:


Couple of comments: I’d suggest reading up on strokes gained. The 10 to 20 yards you discuss does provide an advantage and it isn’t about hitting fairways. Also
The faster you swing they farther the ball goes and the farther it goes offline. A 1* open clubface will be farther offline at 300 yards than it is at 200 yards; that is how angles work.

While the strategy may not work every hole the percentages play out over time.

I agree with all you are saying. And the angle theory is basic physics. And I have read up on the SG:OTT stats, Bryson 1.4, Rory 1.2..everyone else less than 1 per round... It hasn't done those 2 much good as of late. Not denigrating the players, just talking pure stats here...I play Bryson's driver and I like Rory. (Just to put that in perspective)

However, just the one question, would you rather be on the short stuff 120 yards out or in the rough (with the possibility of obstacles) 90 yards out?  

I'm quoting the PGA stats page now "The largest difference between the rough and the fairway occurs between 120 and 190 yards where scoring from the rough is on average about 0.25 strokes higher than those from the fairway."

The results will tell you that People are winning tournaments playing exactly that, the percentages, case in point Berger last week, Cantlay, Reed, Kim, Na, English, Hovland, Streb, Ortiz, Gay, Kokrak, Laird, Garcia and Swafford, none of them exceptionally long hitters...... that's since Bryson won the US Open...... Sorry forgot that Koepka won as well, but he's dropped some length since his return from injury.

So, I don't really want to get into some argument, but do you really think whether the USGA or PGA should be doing anything to limit distance? My opinion was that they shouldn't, and I repeat it's just MY opinion.....doesn't mean that I am right or wrong.

Cheers, happy golfing. 🙂

Edited by RonW
Just adding a quote
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10 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

For those of you who tee it high, do you ground the driver as part of your set-up routine?  Keep in mind the lab test was conducted with robots and they have no pre-shot routine... unless Tony programmed one in 🤔.  I've been experimenting with not grounding my driver and thus far it just feels odd and the results inconsistent.

I ground. I tried the hover and it just felt weird.

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I use the Martini tees with the stopper for my driver. Love em and no doubt it has improved my consistency. 

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10 hours ago, B.Boston said:


But how do WE know you’re not a robot? Has anyone ever actually met you? Would you know that you are a robot? Or would that go against your programming? emoji848.pngemoji848.pngemoji848.png


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I guess I could be a robot and not know that I am a robot.   If you have seen my swing results,  you would think I was a poorly programmed golf robot.  

10 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

The evidence comes in right at the end of the loop video clip.  The swing looked so good I just assumed it wasn't you 🤣.

image.png.23a58cc8c3c33335644245a8c8bbe863.png

 

Not my foot,  that is Phillips.   I was just to the left of the frame hitting putts for  mallet testing.  

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8 hours ago, RonW said:

I agree with all you are saying. And the angle theory is basic physics. And I have read up on the SG:OTT stats, Bryson 1.4, Rory 1.2..everyone else less than 1 per round... It hasn't done those 2 much good as of late. Not denigrating the players, just talking pure stats here...I play Bryson's driver and I like Rory. (Just to put that in perspective)

However, just the one question, would you rather be on the short stuff 120 yards out or in the rough (with the possibility of obstacles) 90 yards out?  

I'm quoting the PGA stats page now "The largest difference between the rough and the fairway occurs between 120 and 190 yards where scoring from the rough is on average about 0.25 strokes higher than those from the fairway."

The results will tell you that People are winning tournaments playing exactly that, the percentages, case in point Berger last week, Cantlay, Reed, Kim, Na, English, Hovland, Streb, Ortiz, Gay, Kokrak, Laird, Garcia and Swafford, none of them exceptionally long hitters...... that's since Bryson won the US Open...... Sorry forgot that Koepka won as well, but he's dropped some length since his return from injury.

So, I don't really want to get into some argument, but do you really think whether the USGA or PGA should be doing anything to limit distance? My opinion was that they shouldn't, and I repeat it's just MY opinion.....doesn't mean that I am right or wrong.

Cheers, happy golfing. 🙂

No,  Rory and Bryson haven't been playing well as of late,  but over a period of time, their overall performance should be better.  

The obstacles would just be the bad luck of where your shot ended up.  I don't have the numbers for each distance,  but I would guess that strokes gained from 90 in the rough would be better than 120 in the fairway.  

I don't consider this an argument,  just a discussion on perspectives.    I don't think they should be doing anything to control distance;  I don't think there is a problem.  

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18 hours ago, Ell said:

Forget all this talk about tee heights. If the USGA and the R&A want to limit the distance a ball goes, reduce the overall weight from 1.62 ounces to 1.3 ounces. For a better explanation of this get the book "Search for the Perfect Swing" by Alastair Cochran and John Stobbs. There's a complete discussion of this in Chapter 26 entitled "What Flight of What Ball", specifically the paragraphs on pages 170 and 171.

The book was last published in 1996. So the discussion of the ball going to far is 25 years old.

 

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On 2/19/2021 at 11:39 AM, GolfSpy_THV said:

Let's discuss the MGS latest test about Tee Heights!

 

Article here: https://mygolfspy.com/tee-height-test/

 

What are your thoughts? Does a Tee Height make a difference in your distance or dispersion on the course?

It does for me.  If I tee it high, like theyve been telling us to do for the past 20 years, I tend to hit a popup from time to time because if I am off a bit or dont keep my head behind the ball, I will hit down on it.

If I just tee it a bit lower, where the ball is in the middle of the clubface, even if Im off a bit, its still an acceptable drive.  If I lose a little distance, Im OK with it because 10% less distance on every tee shot is better than a 50% loss on occasion and a ding in the crown of my driver.

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USGA issues/perspective aside, this was a really interesting read. I end to have a high launch angle—consistent across years of fittings—and consequently have generally teed the ball low. Going to be doing some range testing as soon as the snow clears up here in the Notheast! 

 

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I’m probably not consistent.  Normally grab tee between index and middle fingers and rest ball on the tee , then put it in the ground so tee is secure. Not deep. 

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Good info! I can’t say my technical focus has been on tee height, more on direction than distance personally. However, I will pay attention now. 
 

As far as “the distance debate”, I am still most intrigued by focusing on some course adjustments. I believe MGS said it on the podcast initially after the report came out, but fairways today on tour run about as fast as greens did 20+ years ago. For the most part, I don’t think carry distance gets too bananas, it’s when you add the roll out on top. What happens if they cut the fairways 1/8”, 1/4”, or 1/2” longer?

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It seems completely logical that a higher tee will generally produce strikes closer to the sweet spot of modern drivers, hence longer drives.  I'm wondering a little bit about subconscious adjustments that golfers might make based on the tee height.  It seems to me that the lower tee height would encourage the player to make a swing with a "flatter" angle of attack, while a higher tee would allow for a more upward AoA.  While I understand that AoA is primarily a function of an individual swing and ball position, I'd anticipate that a player might still make some subconscious adjustments.  And as science has proven, that upward AoA is likely to produce longer shots if all other factors are the same.  

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