ejgaudette Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 4 minutes ago, FrogginBullfish said: I bought an off-the-rack hybrid and off-the-rack wedge last year and I've posted 1150+ times in this forum. Sent from my Pixel 2 using MyGolfSpy mobile app So true I have very limited fitting options, would need to drive about 2 hours. So this give a starting point and truly True Golf Fit is what I used to buy my last driver and it has worked great, which is built with a model on top of the MSG testing data. GolfSpy_APH, JohnSmalls and daviddvm 3 Quote Epic Max LS 9° Ventus Blue 6X (2021 Official Review) | Epic Speed 18° Evenflow Riptide 70g 6.0 816 H1 21° Diamana S+ Blue 70 S | SMS 4-5/SMS Pro 6-PW Steelfiber i95 S (2023 Official Review) Glide 4.0 50°.12°S/54°.14°W/58°.6°T PING Z-Z115 Wedge Flex | SOFT 11S Super Stroke Mid-Slim 2.0 Hoofer Bag | Pro V1 | Right Handed | Tracked by V3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnosil Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 2 hours ago, heavy_hitter said: Business analytics. The methodology and collection of the data is flawed. A person that reads MGS is not purchasing an off the rack Driver and shaft unless fitted for it. So your knowledge is in data analysis which would position you in data interpretation and not the capture of the specific data MGS is trying to capture. Robotic tests are useful in testing some aspects of the club. The MGS test starts to take into consideration how the human element influences the performance of a club. For example attach a club to a robot and it will return the club to basically the same point with basically the same impact conditions. In human testing, the shape and markings, shaft, weight, etc. influence how people actually swing the club and you may have a clubs that performs well on a robot but results in a massive hook for actual humans. As others have said, the most wanted results aren't geared toward people that spend lots of time on golf forums. It is geared toward the 90% that walk into a store and buy clubs off the rack with little fitting. The MGS staff say you should get fit for any club and the most wanted winner may not be the best club for you. Also, if you are against the way MGS captures and analyzes the data I guess you a don't support fitting since it is basically the same process. Talk off the shelf drivers, attempt to get good basic fitting, hit some shots, and analyze the results to see trends across a pool of golfers instead of a single golfer (what a fitting does) Interested in how you would change the capture and analysis of the data to make it more relevant and meaningful. If you were in charge what would you do and why would it be better and achieve the goal of what MGS is doing. This is an honest question, I have documented and communicated how I would change some of the testing, but enjoy hearing others opinions. Just saying it is wrong is really a meaningless and useless post. GolfSpy_APH, Nolan220, sirchunksalot and 5 others 3 5 Quote Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: TS3 15* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: TM-180 Testing: Backups: Milled Collection RSX 2, mFGP2, Futura 5W Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACA_619 Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 i feel like the conversation drifted a bit from the OP but it is what it is. Certainly happy to see the "winner" on there but SIM results are interesting given the huge amount of SIM drivers i'm seeing course and in bags on the ranges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RollingGreens Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 4 hours ago, B.Boston said: Sorry dog... Matty is most certainly NOT human. Sometimes Matt confuses the heck out of me he will use a mid launch mid spin shaft and then go with the lowest launch and lowest spin and I can't even really tell which numbers are the better ones because their both amazing, Ian is a master at club building and is a great example of mixing and matching almost any head and shaft combos for optimal results GolfSpy BOS and JohnSmalls 2 Quote Stealth 2 Plus 9deg Kai' li Red Stealth 2 13deg Aldilla Rogue Silver Stealth 2 15deg Aldilla Rogue Silver JPX 921 Hot Metal 4-PW Nippon Modus 120s SM8 54 and 58deg Dynamic Gold Wedge Flex Scotty Cameron Newport 2 Titleist ProV1 Hoofer Stand Bag Stewart Q Follow Electric Caddie 300 PRO Rangefinder Official Nippon Regio B+ Driver Shaft Review Official Stewart Q Follow Review Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RollingGreens Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 2 hours ago, cnosil said: So your knowledge is in data analysis which would position you in data interpretation and not the capture of the specific data MGS is trying to capture. Robotic tests are useful in testing some aspects of the club. The MGS test starts to take into consideration how the human element influences the performance of a club. For example attach a club to a robot and it will return the club to basically the same point with basically the same impact conditions. In human testing, the shape and markings, shaft, weight, etc. influence how people actually swing the club and you may have a clubs that performs well on a robot but results in a massive hook for actual humans. As others have said, the most wanted results aren't geared toward people that spend lots of time on golf forums. It is geared toward the 90% that walk into a store and buy clubs off the rack with little fitting. The MGS staff say you should get fit for any club and the most wanted winner may not be the best club for you. Also, if you are against the way MGS captures and analyzes the data I guess you a don't support fitting since it is basically the same process. Talk off the shelf drivers, attempt to get good basic fitting, hit some shots, and analyze the results to see trends across a pool of golfers instead of a single golfer (what a fitting does) Interested in how you would change the capture and analysis of the data to make it more relevant and meaningful. If you were in charge what would you do and why would it be better and achieve the goal of what MGS is doing. This is an honest question, I have documented and communicated how I would change some of the testing, but enjoy hearing others opinions. Just saying it is wrong is really a meaningless and useless post. To add to what you are saying @cnosil, looks and feel are the subjective portion of fittings that can't be captured with a robot. For many it could be the best driver, but a new appearance compared to the classic head shape, or have an unfriendly sound at impact. Those are the important details in addition to everything objective. A high percentage of golfers on this site I would think are mid to high handicapper, we have a difficult time replicating swings, a robot won't have difficulty replicating or being consistent JohnSmalls 1 Quote Stealth 2 Plus 9deg Kai' li Red Stealth 2 13deg Aldilla Rogue Silver Stealth 2 15deg Aldilla Rogue Silver JPX 921 Hot Metal 4-PW Nippon Modus 120s SM8 54 and 58deg Dynamic Gold Wedge Flex Scotty Cameron Newport 2 Titleist ProV1 Hoofer Stand Bag Stewart Q Follow Electric Caddie 300 PRO Rangefinder Official Nippon Regio B+ Driver Shaft Review Official Stewart Q Follow Review Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GolfSpy BOS Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 6 minutes ago, RollingGreens said: Sometimes Matt confuses the heck out of me he will use a mid launch mid spin shaft and then go with the lowest launch and lowest spin and I can't even really tell which numbers are the better ones because their both amazing, Ian is a master at club building and is a great example of mixing and matching almost any head and shaft combos for optimal results Yes, they’re great at using the right combo of head, loft, and shaft. It actually has made me want to try some 9* “max” heads like the XB versus my 10.5* Speedzone and see if there’s a shaft that will get me good launch and spin and maybe a ball speed increase from the lower loft. sirchunksalot, JohnSmalls and RollingGreens 3 Quote Epic Max LS 10.5 - Motore X F3 6X | Speedzone 5-wood - Ventus Blue 8S | TSi3 20* Hybrid - KBS Proto 85S SMS Pro 4-PW - Steelfiber i110S | MG3 Raw Black 50.09, 54.11, 58.11 - DG TI S200 ER2B | Pro V1x | NX9 Slope | Jones Trouper R | CaddyLite EZ v8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpoole22 Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 5 hours ago, heavy_hitter said: Business analytics. The methodology and collection of the data is flawed. A person that reads MGS is not purchasing an off the rack Driver and shaft unless fitted for it. Well since you are clearly the expert do you have any suggestions or do you just like going around telling people that their data is flawed without providing any solutions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyBobby_PR Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 5 hours ago, jlukes said: However, the MGS blog (articles, most wanted testing results) is read by a far larger population of golfers and 99.999% of those readers don’t post on the MGS forums. And based on their recent social media post they are estimating 16 million readers of the site this year and there nowhere near that many forum members of even guests who check the forums JohnSmalls, Golfspy_CG2 and RollingGreens 2 1 Quote Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4 Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120 Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60 Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1 Ball: Titleist Prov1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnosil Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 2 hours ago, ACA_619 said: i feel like the conversation drifted a bit from the OP but it is what it is. Certainly happy to see the "winner" on there but SIM results are interesting given the huge amount of SIM drivers i'm seeing course and in bags on the ranges. We're not really getting off topic. We are talking about the driver results and the validity of the data. The fact that SIM drivers are on the course are either the results of fitting or that people just walk into a store and buy a SIM driver because the TM staffers (Tiger, DJ, Rory) play a SIM driver. Quote Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: TS3 15* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: TM-180 Testing: Backups: Milled Collection RSX 2, mFGP2, Futura 5W Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GolfSpy_APH Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 7 hours ago, ACA_619 said: i feel like the conversation drifted a bit from the OP but it is what it is. Certainly happy to see the "winner" on there but SIM results are interesting given the huge amount of SIM drivers i'm seeing course and in bags on the ranges. I believe a lot of that also has to do with just how popular TM is. They have a huge following, top tier marketing and are a generally good looking club. I believe an average consumer would be drawn to them or Callaway withouth much thought. Regardless of where they end up on the most wanted they will likely always be purchased more then say Titleist, Cobra and even Ping. For me personally I would like to try out the PXG 0211 and Mizuno series given their price and compare it towards the Sim and new Epic. If there isn't a great difference between them then I wont be spending the extra money for them. I have a feeling a lot of people with be in a similar situation as me and we may start to see some of those other brands in more bags as the price differences are just so big now. ACA_619, cnosil and Micah T 3 Quote as of Nov 6, 2023 (Past WITB) Driver: Paradym TD w/ GD ADDI 6X Driver Shootout! Wood: F7 3 wood 14.5* w/ Motore F1 Shaft Irons: T Series - T200 5 Iron T150 6-9 Iron T100 PW/GW Wedge: Toura Golf - A Spec 53,37,61 degree Putter: Mezz Max! Balls: Vice Pro Plus Drip (Blue/Orange) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyBobby_PR Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 5 hours ago, Apolloshowl said: I believe a lot of that also has to do with just how popular TM is. They have a huge following, top tier marketing and are a generally good looking club. I believe an average consumer would be drawn to them or Callaway withouth much thought. Regardless of where they end up on the most wanted they will likely always be purchased more then say Titleist, Cobra and even Ping. For me personally I would like to try out the PXG 0211 and Mizuno series given their price and compare it towards the Sim and new Epic. If there isn't a great difference between them then I wont be spending the extra money for them. I have a feeling a lot of people with be in a similar situation as me and we may start to see some of those other brands in more bags as the price differences are just so big now. Brands like mizuno and Cobra have to over come brand perceptions. Mizuno isn’t known for their drivers, in some places they are hard to find so people will look at Mizuno and think solely about irons, their woods have come along way in the last 10 years. Cobra has a perception of being cheap. This goes back to the days when they were under the acushnet brand and titleist was the main line. Titleist has some perceptions to overcome too. They were always seen as the brand for the better player, their drivers off the shelf weren’t as long as the TM and Callaway drivers. They’ve stepped up that with the 917 lineup and even more so with the TS and now TSI. I do think PXG with their pricing of the 0211 line will get some added business and take away a little of the market from the big 3-4 brands and will make it hard for a Wilson and cobra. As you mention people are going to gravitate to certain brands and a lot of them are the ones who aren’t on forums or Facebook groups but just see the tv ads and tour use. GolfSpy_APH, cnosil, RollingGreens and 1 other 4 Quote Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4 Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120 Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60 Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1 Ball: Titleist Prov1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACA_619 Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 10 hours ago, Apolloshowl said: I believe a lot of that also has to do with just how popular TM is. They have a huge following, top tier marketing and are a generally good looking club. I believe an average consumer would be drawn to them or Callaway withouth much thought. Regardless of where they end up on the most wanted they will likely always be purchased more then say Titleist, Cobra and even Ping. For me personally I would like to try out the PXG 0211 and Mizuno series given their price and compare it towards the Sim and new Epic. If there isn't a great difference between them then I wont be spending the extra money for them. I have a feeling a lot of people with be in a similar situation as me and we may start to see some of those other brands in more bags as the price differences are just so big now. 4 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said: Brands like mizuno and Cobra have to over come brand perceptions. Mizuno isn’t known for their drivers, in some places they are hard to find so people will look at Mizuno and think solely about irons, their woods have come along way in the last 10 years. Cobra has a perception of being cheap. This goes back to the days when they were under the acushnet brand and titleist was the main line. Titleist has some perceptions to overcome too. They were always seen as the brand for the better player, their drivers off the shelf weren’t as long as the TM and Callaway drivers. They’ve stepped up that with the 917 lineup and even more so with the TS and now TSI. I do think PXG with their pricing of the 0211 line will get some added business and take away a little of the market from the big 3-4 brands and will make it hard for a Wilson and cobra. As you mention people are going to gravitate to certain brands and a lot of them are the ones who aren’t on forums or Facebook groups but just see the tv ads and tour use. Taylormade social media is killing it with their videos and segments. Not really a fan of the Trott videos but the Tour Truck Tuesday shorts with both Wade and Chris are great. Definitely not something I thought would happen again but it appears with Callaway tapering off some of their social, it was only a matter of time before another OEM took the top spot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyBobby_PR Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 23 minutes ago, ACA_619 said: Taylormade social media is killing it with their videos and segments. Not really a fan of the Trott videos but the Tour Truck Tuesday shorts with both Wade and Chris are great. Definitely not something I thought would happen again but it appears with Callaway tapering off some of their social, it was only a matter of time before another OEM took the top spot Agree that TM is doing some good stuff. Even their YouTube channel has some cool videos and they do a good job of using their brand ambassadors/teaching staff well to help promote the product and their players on all the tours. I enjoy when wade or trottie show the building process and other randomness in the van ACA_619 1 Quote Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4 Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120 Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60 Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1 Ball: Titleist Prov1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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