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Having a 21 degree 4 Hybrid and 21 degree 4 iron


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Hey everyone! I just got fitted for the TSi2 Hybrid and I was fitted for 21 degree 4 Hybrid which will be dropped down 0.75 degrees. I am coming from a G410 19 Degree 3 Hybrid. The way my bag is set up loft wise is 9-15-20.25-21-24-28-32-36-40-44-48-54-60. My question is since my 4 iron and 4 hybrid are essentially the same loft, should I just remove my 4 iron or is it still essential to have a 4 iron in the bag? Having two clubs of the same loft is messing with my head hahah! Thank you everyone! 

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Driver: Titleist TSi3 9 Degree Tensei White Raw 65 grams Extra Stiff B1/H1 setting (RH)

3 Wood: Titleist TSi2 15 Degree Tensei White Raw 75 grams Extra Stiff B1 setting (RH)

Hybrid: Titleist TSi2 21 Degree Tensei White Raw 100 grams Stiff B1 setting (RH)

Irons: Titleist T200 4-5/T100S Black 6-9 Project X LZ 6.0 Onyx (RH)

Wedges: Titleist T100S Black 44 and 48, Titleist SM8 Jet Black 54S/10 bounce, 60S/10 bounce Project X LZ 6.0 Onyx (RH)

Putter: 2019 Bettinardi QB8 Midslant Limited Run with Stability Shaft/2021 Bettinardi Studio Stock 28 Limited Blackout with Stability Shaft (RH)

Ball: TaylorMade TP5/TP5x

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Depends on what your carry and total distances are for each. if they are going the same distance with a similar ball flight then there isnt much point in having both as your most likely just going to pull out which one you are more comfortable with each time.

I carry a regular length 22 hybrid and a 21 degree one length hybrid. while they are the same loft the distances are a little different but the ball flight is very different. I use the one length version when im concerned with accuracy or if there is a strong wind as the ball flight is lower, carry distance shorter but with alot more roll out. I also like it for bump and runs around the green. the 22 is great for carry distance and stopping power due to the higher flight and steeper landing angle.

Just figure out what works best for you and dont worry about the numbers on the clubs.

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Currently deciding what shaft to use in blank cells...

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52 minutes ago, Herts JoaTMoN said:

Depends on what your carry and total distances are for each. if they are going the same distance with a similar ball flight then there isnt much point in having both as your most likely just going to pull out which one you are more comfortable with each time.

I carry a regular length 22 hybrid and a 21 degree one length hybrid. while they are the same loft the distances are a little different but the ball flight is very different. I use the one length version when im concerned with accuracy or if there is a strong wind as the ball flight is lower, carry distance shorter but with alot more roll out. I also like it for bump and runs around the green. the 22 is great for carry distance and stopping power due to the higher flight and steeper landing angle.

Just figure out what works best for you and dont worry about the numbers on the clubs.

Yep you pretty much nailed it with the last sentence. I myself do not worry too much about lofts or loft gaps. I carry a club simply because of the shots I can manufacture with it

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Driver --- Honma G1-X Stock R Flex----  3W Callaway Steelhead UST Pro Force Gold 65 stiff--- 2 iron 1980 Macgregor VIP Nike R flex-------- Irons 3 thru PW 1980 Macgregor VIP Hogan Apex shafts--- SW Cleveland 588 Sensicore S-400-- Putter Rusty Santa Fe Bulls Eye Fluted shaft-- Bag Old School Hoofer I had in the stash--- Goes along with my raggety persona

 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Herts JoaTMoN said:

Depends on what your carry and total distances are for each. if they are going the same distance with a similar ball flight then there isnt much point in having both as your most likely just going to pull out which one you are more comfortable with each time.

I carry a regular length 22 hybrid and a 21 degree one length hybrid. while they are the same loft the distances are a little different but the ball flight is very different. I use the one length version when im concerned with accuracy or if there is a strong wind as the ball flight is lower, carry distance shorter but with alot more roll out. I also like it for bump and runs around the green. the 22 is great for carry distance and stopping power due to the higher flight and steeper landing angle.

Just figure out what works best for you and dont worry about the numbers on the clubs.

Agree totally! Depends on if you have shots you can only make with one or the other.   I have a 3 hybrid, and a 4 iron I get about the same distance out of.  Into the wind off the tee I can keep the 4i lower, when needed.  And hopefully this just applies to me but I can keep the ball low and roll it out from underneath the trees very effectively with my 4 iron (get practice more often than I like!).  Don't worry about the numbers.

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Putter:  :ping-small: Scottsdale Wolverine

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Do you feel like you need to hit your hybrid out of the the thick cut/rough? Many have an easier time with irons/utility irons. I find that gapping isn’t as big of a deal with degrees. It’s about purpose and distance. I may have two clubs that are the same

loft. One is a 19deg hybrid the other is a 4 iron. Very similar distances but I am more comfortable with the hybrid off the tee and the fairway and the iron is great out of the rough and to hit low stingers with on windy days

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15 minutes ago, RollingGreens said:

Do you feel like you need to hit your hybrid out of the the thick cut/rough? Many have an easier time with irons/utility irons. I find that gapping isn’t as big of a deal with degrees. It’s about purpose and distance. I may have two clubs that are the same

loft. One is a 19deg hybrid the other is a 4 iron. Very similar distances but I am more comfortable with the hybrid off the tee and the fairway and the iron is great out of the rough and to hit low stingers with on windy days

My swing is better with a hybrid than an iron so I have some loft overlaps with clubs that can get out of taller grass.  You can see the number of hybrids in my bag versus irons.

The focus of my game is keeping shots landing on short grass (father in law says we really should play there more often 🤣) and my game is accuracy over power.  I usually get in the cup with the same number of strokes as the long ball hitters I play with 😃👍

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I am seeing a trend here.....and I am part of it....

I have a 4h & 4i that I swap for each other and sometimes carry both for the same reasons stated above.  4h flies higher and stops better, 4i flies lower and runs out and I can maneuver the ball better with the 4i than the 4h which always wants to go from R to L.

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Modern Bag:  Ping G410+ 9*, Accra TourZ X265 M5;  Callaway Mavrik 16.5* 4W, EvenFlow Riptide 6.0 S 70g;  Mizuno JPX 919 HMP 4i, PX LZ 6.0;  Mizuno JPX 900 Forged 5 - PW, PX LZ 6.0;  Cleveland Tour Action 49*, 53*, 57*; PX LZ 6.5 ;  Ping Heppler Fetch;  Ball - Snell MTB-X; Bag - Sun Mountain H2NO 

Classic Bag:  Driver - Wilson Staff Persimmon; 3w - Hogan Speed Slot; 5w - Wilson Staff Tour Block; 3 - pw - Staff Dynapower; sw - Ram Tom Watson;  putter - bullseye standard or flange.

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I use the 4 iron to flip steaks on the grill if that counts!!! I don't think a hybrid would work well for that.  

 

Seriously as others have written this is going to be an individual decision.  Hybrids, long irons and fairway woods do different things.  You may have noticed a trend towards an additional fairway wood in player's bags lately.  A 7 wood might be a consideration over one of those two clubs - 7 wood will have a similar loft as well but the longer shaft and bigger platform might get you additional carry distance, particularly out of the rough and since it's a wood it won't "play with your head," as much.

 

I've just made the decision to stick 5 hybrid in my bag for a while.  In theory I should have a wedge between my 52 and 59 but I've found, through ARCCOS tracking that I am so much more proficient with the 52 than the 56, at any distance or for any shot I play, that it makes no sense to pull that club out of the bag other than to set it on the wall in the garage - that's where it sits right now, in fact.  The 5 hybrid will now serve as a chipper of sorts, I used to use hybrid for bump and runs and all sorts of other stuff around the green - yes I can use an 8 iron but that gets hairy off of the types of grasses and conditions that I find in Florida.  I could also use it in lieu of 9 wood into the wind - that 9 wood launches high and is very hard to flight down.

 

So there you go, another tale of two similarly lofted clubs in the bag.

 

In the end you need to do what is best for your game - think outside the box and try a 7 wood just to see if it might be your answer and then don't be afraid to keep what works best in your bag even if it seems weird.  

 

Good luck

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Ping G410 - turned down to11.25 degrees, neutral setting - Fujikura Motore X R flex

Ping G410 5-9 wood

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Currently testing Edison wedges to replace SCORS that are wearing out. Also auditions for the 14th spot in the bag.  Current possibilities are a Ping 26 degree hybrid - duplicates the 9 wood or 5 iron but would be used almost exclusively for chipping or Tour Exotics 3 wood simply because you can carry 14 clubs and I might occasionally hit it in certain unusual wind conditions once every four or five rounds. 

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First, same loft with different head weights and shaft lengths and shaft material will produce different results = they are not the same because of the same loft.

Generally, 4h loft replaces a 3i, but in your case the 4i loft is a 3i loft. My 4i is 24° and 3i is 21° but the point isn't the number on the bottom of the club for me. The graphite shaft that is longer than the equivalent lofted iron with a shorter steel shaft produces a faster clubhead speed for me with the hybrid. The COG of the hybrid also produces a much different flight. 

I guess the bigger question for you is if you pull the 4i then what would you add to lower your scores? If you can answer that question then do it. If you can't then keep the 4i. 

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5w Taylormade SLDR S 19* - 220yd, Ping G2 5-U - 190-105, Maltby M+ 54* & MG 60* - 95-75, Evnroll ER8, Titleist 816 H1 4h 21*, Maltby 4 Hybrid Iron 24* - 210-200, Callaway XR16 8* - 235 carry

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9 hours ago, PingMD702 said:

Hey everyone! I just got fitted for the TSi2 Hybrid and I was fitted for 21 degree 4 Hybrid which will be dropped down 0.75 degrees. I am coming from a G410 19 Degree 3 Hybrid. The way my bag is set up loft wise is 9-15-20.25-21-24-28-32-36-40-44-48-54-60. My question is since my 4 iron and 4 hybrid are essentially the same loft, should I just remove my 4 iron or is it still essential to have a 4 iron in the bag? Having two clubs of the same loft is messing with my head hahah! Thank you everyone! 

Your 4 iron is essential if you have the need to hit the ball the distance your 4 iron goes on a trajectory that provides you the best outcome.  Same goes for every other club.

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I appreciate all the responses! I figured as much! Carry wise my 21 goes 225-230 and my 4 iron goes 205-210. I agree if I remove the 4 iron I have no idea what I would replace it with haha!


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Driver: Titleist TSi3 9 Degree Tensei White Raw 65 grams Extra Stiff B1/H1 setting (RH)

3 Wood: Titleist TSi2 15 Degree Tensei White Raw 75 grams Extra Stiff B1 setting (RH)

Hybrid: Titleist TSi2 21 Degree Tensei White Raw 100 grams Stiff B1 setting (RH)

Irons: Titleist T200 4-5/T100S Black 6-9 Project X LZ 6.0 Onyx (RH)

Wedges: Titleist T100S Black 44 and 48, Titleist SM8 Jet Black 54S/10 bounce, 60S/10 bounce Project X LZ 6.0 Onyx (RH)

Putter: 2019 Bettinardi QB8 Midslant Limited Run with Stability Shaft/2021 Bettinardi Studio Stock 28 Limited Blackout with Stability Shaft (RH)

Ball: TaylorMade TP5/TP5x

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I carry a 5i and 5h, both at 24°. Distance wise the hybrid plays like a 4i but I don’t really look at gapping as the biggest factor. I look more at the type of shot I need out of them. 5h is better from rough or if I have to go high and/or draw it. When it comes to building a bag, a lot gets made of gapping but I look more at what shots I need to hit on the courses I play and making sure I have a club for that shot.


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I did try a 5 wood today and now it’s making me second guess my purchase hahaha. I understand different shot shapes and trajectory. How would you decide between 5 wood or 4 hybrid? Sorry for all the ridiculous questions haha


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Driver: Titleist TSi3 9 Degree Tensei White Raw 65 grams Extra Stiff B1/H1 setting (RH)

3 Wood: Titleist TSi2 15 Degree Tensei White Raw 75 grams Extra Stiff B1 setting (RH)

Hybrid: Titleist TSi2 21 Degree Tensei White Raw 100 grams Stiff B1 setting (RH)

Irons: Titleist T200 4-5/T100S Black 6-9 Project X LZ 6.0 Onyx (RH)

Wedges: Titleist T100S Black 44 and 48, Titleist SM8 Jet Black 54S/10 bounce, 60S/10 bounce Project X LZ 6.0 Onyx (RH)

Putter: 2019 Bettinardi QB8 Midslant Limited Run with Stability Shaft/2021 Bettinardi Studio Stock 28 Limited Blackout with Stability Shaft (RH)

Ball: TaylorMade TP5/TP5x

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17 hours ago, revkev said:

I use the 4 iron to flip steaks on the grill if that counts!!! I don't think a hybrid would work well for that.  

 

Seriously as others have written this is going to be an individual decision.  Hybrids, long irons and fairway woods do different things.  You may have noticed a trend towards an additional fairway wood in player's bags lately.  A 7 wood might be a consideration over one of those two clubs - 7 wood will have a similar loft as well but the longer shaft and bigger platform might get you additional carry distance, particularly out of the rough and since it's a wood it won't "play with your head," as much.

 

I've just made the decision to stick 5 hybrid in my bag for a while.  In theory I should have a wedge between my 52 and 59 but I've found, through ARCCOS tracking that I am so much more proficient with the 52 than the 56, at any distance or for any shot I play, that it makes no sense to pull that club out of the bag other than to set it on the wall in the garage - that's where it sits right now, in fact.  The 5 hybrid will now serve as a chipper of sorts, I used to use hybrid for bump and runs and all sorts of other stuff around the green - yes I can use an 8 iron but that gets hairy off of the types of grasses and conditions that I find in Florida.  I could also use it in lieu of 9 wood into the wind - that 9 wood launches high and is very hard to flight down.

 

So there you go, another tale of two similarly lofted clubs in the bag.

 

In the end you need to do what is best for your game - think outside the box and try a 7 wood just to see if it might be your answer and then don't be afraid to keep what works best in your bag even if it seems weird.  

 

Good luck

I kinda had to revamp my short game after changing courses and my back injury. Love my new course even if it ain't Augusta National around the greens. Growing up on muni type courses I learned the bump and run and Texas wedge. I have went back to it instead of a 52 or 56 around the greens. With the new style clubs and shafts I am playing those shots feel like butter to me. Yep I have been practcing the 5 iron bump and run and the 8 iron bump and run lately. Also need to change my signature some. I ditched both hybrids because I found I get a lot out of the 5 and 6 irons. I also put my old Adams 5 wood at 19* back in the bag. 

Driver --- Honma G1-X Stock R Flex----  3W Callaway Steelhead UST Pro Force Gold 65 stiff--- 2 iron 1980 Macgregor VIP Nike R flex-------- Irons 3 thru PW 1980 Macgregor VIP Hogan Apex shafts--- SW Cleveland 588 Sensicore S-400-- Putter Rusty Santa Fe Bulls Eye Fluted shaft-- Bag Old School Hoofer I had in the stash--- Goes along with my raggety persona

 

 

 

 

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I did try a 5 wood today and now it’s making me second guess my purchase hahaha. I understand different shot shapes and trajectory. How would you decide between 5 wood or 4 hybrid? Sorry for all the ridiculous questions haha


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I would say it’s, like a lot of things, player preference. What are you more comfortable with? For me, fairway woods are tee clubs. Just can’t ever get the consistency out of a fairway that I can a hybrid. Now for a better player the difference might be very small, for me it’s pretty substantial. What are the real differences in the shots you hit with each and where do they fit on your arsenal, that’s the question I’d ask myself.


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I have a 4 iron and a 4 hybrid. My Hybrid goes further than my 4 iron, so my gapping is 5 iron, 4 iron, 4 hybrid, 3 wood etc. 

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On 2/24/2021 at 10:42 PM, PingMD702 said:

I did try a 5 wood today and now it’s making me second guess my purchase hahaha. I understand different shot shapes and trajectory. How would you decide between 5 wood or 4 hybrid? Sorry for all the ridiculous questions haha


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First off it is not a rediculous question--- We all gain knowledge through questioning things whether verbal or experimentation on our own. Now on your question and this is just my opinion FWIW. You need to go with the club you have the most confidence in and fits your style of playing.  Personally I went back to my 5 wood because I can hit it pretty decent and can work it to hit a variety of shots with. Good example--- On bad lies I will say a hybrid may be easier to hit like out of the rough. In the case now for me if I can not get a 5 wood under it then I will hit a 5 or 6 iron and chop it out and get it into position I can get a short iron under it next shot. Different playing styles and thoughts all factor in.  Good Luck to you and let us know how it works out for you--- You never know we all may learn something

Edited by BIG STU
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Driver --- Honma G1-X Stock R Flex----  3W Callaway Steelhead UST Pro Force Gold 65 stiff--- 2 iron 1980 Macgregor VIP Nike R flex-------- Irons 3 thru PW 1980 Macgregor VIP Hogan Apex shafts--- SW Cleveland 588 Sensicore S-400-- Putter Rusty Santa Fe Bulls Eye Fluted shaft-- Bag Old School Hoofer I had in the stash--- Goes along with my raggety persona

 

 

 

 

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