Fitting/ Lie angle question!

[kmlp95]

Hey everyone, I'll start this off by saying I know there's a lot of lie angle forums, but I can't find my exact answer.

I recently got fitted for a new set of mizuno mp20 mb/mmc combo irons at my local fitter, I believe he did everything right, he explained everything well pretty well and I asked lots of questions. After I got home and did some research I found one issue but it might just be me. I was fitted one degree upright based on a lie board and a marker drawn on the ball, when I hit this marked line on the ball the line pointed very slightly to the heel of the club. I'm 6 ft tall and he took a wrist to ground measurement but I'm not sure what that was. However my miss is left and I mean way left, from what I'm reading the upright lie angle will make this worse? I was at a different fitter the week before and he did the marker test and told me it calls for upright but he would put me flat? does this even make sense? I've played a draw hook for over 10 years, I close the face on impact I believe or maybe its my swing or both haha. I guess my question is did he do this correctly even though my miss is left and is this one degree lie angle going to make a huge difference? I've read I think every forum on lie angle and my brain is going to explode, I'm pumped for my irons and just praying its done right.

[RickyBobby_PR]

The market test and result to go upright is correct. So you have two fitters who said the same thing regarding that and your lie angle. One degree in my experience isn’t going to make a huge difference. I’ve been red dot in ping and have used black dot and saw no difference in my ball flight.

As for your draw hook and possible left miss going flatter would move the move the start direction to the right. Tbh it’s really up to you if you wanted to go flat to help getting the ball to go a little right first. 

[kmlp95]

1 minute ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

The market test and result to go upright is correct. So you have two fitters who said the same thing regarding that and your lie angle. One degree in my experience isn’t going to make a huge difference. I’ve been red dot in ping and have used black dot and saw no difference in my ball flight.

As for your draw hook and possible left miss going flatter would move the move the start direction to the right. Tbh it’s really up to you if you wanted to go flat to help getting the ball to go a little right first. 

Roger, so it seems upright will be correct and I should just work on fixing the swing? going flatter would not be for the right reason and could mess more stuff up?

[jddaigneault]

What kind of clubs do you have? You can always get them bent flat and if you find no benefit, bend them back. 

What direction does your ball flight start?

[kmlp95]

2 minutes ago, jddaigneault said:

What kind of clubs do you have? You can always get them bent flat and if you find no benefit, bend them back. 

What direction does your ball flight start?

I had 718 mbs and always had a hook/ draw, I won a fitting got there and the fitter was like you need x stiff shafts now. I decided to use a different fitter based on price and now have a set of mizuno mp20 mb mmc ordered. I start a little left but with a draw sometimes a hook. I was hoping this upright would help this a little or at least my aim haha I ordered them a degree up because I figured both fitters said I fit a degree up based on height lie boards and the marker line. ( I know lots of guys aren't a fan of lie boards, but just another tool in the box).

[RickyBobby_PR]

5 minutes ago, kmlp95 said:

Roger, so it seems upright will be correct and I should just work on fixing the swing? going flatter would not be for the right reason and could mess more stuff up?

Working on a swing isn’t a bad thing for those looking to improve. Going with the upright in mizuno Is what works with your swing and would lead to some consistency in ball flight. There’s also not right or wrong in being upright, flat or standard in a swing. It’s about how each person swings the club.

 I don’t know if going flatter would mess stuff up it’s just adjusting how the face comes into ball with your swing. I have a buddy who plays his srixon irons 2* flat because he wants to eliminate the left side of the course. Iirc be based the lie angle of whatever club he buys off the mizuno standard lie angle. 

[kmlp95]

2 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Working on a swing isn’t a bad thing for those looking to improve. Going with the upright in mizuno Is what works with your swing and would lead to some consistency in ball flight. There’s also not right or wrong in being upright, flat or standard in a swing. It’s about how each person swings the club.

 I don’t know if going flatter would mess stuff up it’s just adjusting how the face comes into ball with your swing. I have a buddy who plays his srixon irons 2* flat because he wants to eliminate the left side of the course. Iirc be based the lie angle of whatever club he buys off the mizuno standard lie angle. 

ah makes sense so this 1 degree upright is right, I just need to improve my swing( which I knew  haha)  I just want the irons to be perfect. now that I think about it we never did the lie angle with the mizuno or the kbs shaft lolol. but Since I saw upright at 2 places I'm just going to say that's right lol 

[NCDuffer]

I’m no fitter, but here’s my experience. I was recently fitted for Maltby TS-1 irons and lie set 2 degrees flat. With my old clubs I pulled left and those clubs (fitted) were 2 degrees upright. I’ve tried to make swing improvements as well. With the new clubs and a decent swing there is no pull, dead straight or rarely a slight touch of fade. If I do pull, the pull is nowhere near as large even if I think I’ve pulled.


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[cnosil]

10 minutes ago, kmlp95 said:

ah makes sense so this 1 degree upright is right, I just need to improve my swing( which I knew  haha)  I just want the irons to be perfect. now that I think about it we never did the lie angle with the mizuno or the kbs shaft lolol. but Since I saw upright at 2 places I'm just going to say that's right lol 

I would agree that the lie angle is correct.  All your tests showed that with the upright lie angle you are delivering the lie of the club at impact correctly.   You can influence ball direction by changing the lie but I think it is better to just change your alignment to start the ball right and bring it back to the target line.   Work on your skills to get the ball going where you want. 

[kmlp95]

 

4 minutes ago, cnosil said:

I would agree that the lie angle is correct.  All your tests showed that with the upright lie angle you are delivering the lie of the club at impact correctly.   You can influence ball direction by changing the lie but I think it is better to just change your alignment to start the ball right and bring it back to the target line.   Work on your skills to get the ball going where you want. 

Perfect thank you for reassuring me, I just want to make sure these clubs are perfect lol

[RickyBobby_PR]

15 minutes ago, kmlp95 said:

ah makes sense so this 1 degree upright is right, I just need to improve my swing( which I knew  haha)  I just want the irons to be perfect. now that I think about it we never did the lie angle with the mizuno or the kbs shaft lolol. but Since I saw upright at 2 places I'm just going to say that's right lol 

Exactly. Based on our short back and forth the one thing you are looking for is the confidence of the fit which your last sentence here confirms and we know having confidence will lead to better performance. Trust the 2 fittings and play your game and enjoy the process of working on your swing. The good thing is as you improve if you notice the ball is now working to far left to left you can recheck the lie angle and adjust it flatter if need be as the Mizunos can be bent rather easily

[kmlp95]

2 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Exactly. Based on our short back and forth the one thing you are looking for is the confidence of the fit which your last sentence here confirms and we know having confidence will lead to better performance. Trust the 2 fittings and play your game and enjoy the process of working on your swing. The good thing is as you improve if you notice the ball is now working to far left to left you can recheck the lie angle and adjust it flatter if need be as the Mizunos can be bent rather easily

Thank you for the reassurance sir! I appreciate it 

[RickyBobby_PR]

Just now, kmlp95 said:

Thank you for the reassurance sir! I appreciate it 

You’re welcome. Enjoy the new sticks they are some nice clubs. Mizuno MP series are always some sweet clubs. I can’t believe that despite my appreciation for Mizuno and years back them being a set of irons that stayed in my bag the longest I haven't had any in my bag since. 

[TR1PTIK]

Looks like you're pretty well covered by all the above, but I'll toss in my thoughts as well. As mentioned above by @RickyBobby_PR and @cnosil, the lie angle you were fit for is correct and assures that your club is making clean contact with good turf interaction. If you're still seeing a left miss, then it is likely the result of face angle and/or club path. While having the clubs adjusted to a flatter lie angle could help with direction, it could also mess up turf interaction introducing a whole new set of issues. 

[kmlp95]

7 minutes ago, TR1PTIK said:

Looks like you're pretty well covered by all the above, but I'll toss in my thoughts as well. As mentioned above by @RickyBobby_PR and @cnosil, the lie angle you were fit for is correct and assures that your club is making clean contact with good turf interaction. If you're still seeing a left miss, then it is likely the result of face angle and/or club path. While having the clubs adjusted to a flatter lie angle could help with direction, it could also mess up turf interaction introducing a whole new set of issues. 

awesome, thank you aswell I also enjoy other peoples opinions. anyone feel free to throw your 2 cents in here. 

[Pandaman]

Could it just be that they are 'new', and therefore 'different' to what you are used to?  So, yes, your swing is causing it, but mainly because you are still in the groove of swinging your old clubs, especially on course.

[Micah T]

Hey everyone, I'll start this off by saying I know there's a lot of lie angle forums, but I can't find my exact answer. I recently got fitted for a new set of mizuno mp20 mb/mmc combo irons at my local fitter, I believe he did everything right, he explained everything well pretty well and I asked lots of questions. After I got home and did some research I found one issue but it might just be me. I was fitted one degree upright based on a lie board and a marker drawn on the ball, when I hit this marked line on the ball the line pointed very slightly to the heel of the club. I'm 6 ft tall and he took a wrist to ground measurement but I'm not sure what that was. However my miss is left and I mean way left, from what I'm reading the upright lie angle will make this worse? I was at a different fitter the week before and he did the marker test and told me it calls for upright but he would put me flat? does this even make sense? I've played a draw hook for over 10 years, I close the face on impact I believe or maybe its my swing or both haha. I guess my question is did he do this correctly even though my miss is left and is this one degree lie angle going to make a huge difference? I've read I think every forum on lie angle and my brain is going to explode, I'm pumped for my irons and just praying its done right.

I have the same swing miss: you have a face/ path swing issue. Lie board is about your swing being slightly toe down, your miss is about your swing path being left(assuming your a righty) and your face closed to target. So, you have 2 options:
1) continue to improve your swing path , to make it more neutral: this will move your avg shot closer to center line.
2) get clubs with a flat lie that will move your start line right. But when you swing with a neutral path, your ball will be way right.

My fitting was last week,and it’s down to the Mizuno MMC or the P7MC. Personally I’m going with option 1, rather than have to have my clubs bent twice as my swing improves. But I practice every other day, at least 100 swings.


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[kmlp95]

5 minutes ago, Micah T said:

I have the same swing miss: you have a face/ path swing issue. Lie board is about your swing being slightly toe down, your miss is about your swing path being left(assuming your a righty) and your face closed to target. So, you have 2 options:
1) continue to improve your swing path , to make it more neutral: this will move your avg shot closer to center line.
2) get clubs with a flat lie that will move your start line right. But when you swing with a neutral path, your ball will be way right.

My fitting was last week,and it’s down to the Mizuno MMC or the P7MC. Personally I’m going with option 1, rather than have to have my clubs bent twice as my swing improves. But I practice every other day, at least 100 swings.


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Hey Dude,

 

I'm going to do option 1 as well, clubs were ordered 1 degree upright, this is a big summer as i got a membership with a range pass, so I will be practicing a ton, I just didn't want the degree upright to hinder my game as I try to improve it, which it should not as it makes sense with the fittings. I was down to the same irons as you and I decide on a combo set of mmcs and mbs due to the turn around time. The lie angles are a bit difference between mizunos and taylormades I believe. 

[kmlp95]

4 hours ago, Micah T said:

I have the same swing miss: you have a face/ path swing issue. Lie board is about your swing being slightly toe down, your miss is about your swing path being left(assuming your a righty) and your face closed to target. So, you have 2 options:
1) continue to improve your swing path , to make it more neutral: this will move your avg shot closer to center line.
2) get clubs with a flat lie that will move your start line right. But when you swing with a neutral path, your ball will be way right.

My fitting was last week,and it’s down to the Mizuno MMC or the P7MC. Personally I’m going with option 1, rather than have to have my clubs bent twice as my swing improves. But I practice every other day, at least 100 swings.


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Did you get fitted upright aswell then? 

[Micah T]

Did you get fitted upright aswell then? 

Yup 1 degree upright: my miss shows up when I go after one too hard. Generally 4-7 iron are the main culprits.


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[kmlp95]

16 hours ago, Micah T said:

Yup 1 degree upright: my miss shows up when I go after one too hard. Generally 4-7 iron are the main culprits.


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ah yea, I Just always miss left that I started playing it. But ill correct this season then the upright lie angle should be perfect!

[Kenny B]

On 2/27/2021 at 8:10 AM, kmlp95 said:

Hey everyone, I'll start this off by saying I know there's a lot of lie angle forums, but I can't find my exact answer.

I recently got fitted for a new set of mizuno mp20 mb/mmc combo irons at my local fitter, I believe he did everything right, he explained everything well pretty well and I asked lots of questions. After I got home and did some research I found one issue but it might just be me. I was fitted one degree upright based on a lie board and a marker drawn on the ball, when I hit this marked line on the ball the line pointed very slightly to the heel of the club. I'm 6 ft tall and he took a wrist to ground measurement but I'm not sure what that was. However my miss is left and I mean way left, from what I'm reading the upright lie angle will make this worse? I was at a different fitter the week before and he did the marker test and told me it calls for upright but he would put me flat? does this even make sense? I've played a draw hook for over 10 years, I close the face on impact I believe or maybe its my swing or both haha. I guess my question is did he do this correctly even though my miss is left and is this one degree lie angle going to make a huge difference? I've read I think every forum on lie angle and my brain is going to explode, I'm pumped for my irons and just praying its done right.

You already have gotten sound advice, so rather than repeat, I will add that the lie angle of MP20 irons is flatter than most other irons, and 1º upright brings them very close to the standard lie angle of the 718mb.  Were your 718mb irons fitted and were they standard lie?  

[kmlp95]

6 minutes ago, Kenny B said:

You already have gotten sound advice, so rather than repeat, I will add that the lie angle of MP20 irons is flatter than most other irons, and 1º upright brings them very close to the standard lie angle of the 718mb.  Were your 718mb irons fitted and were they standard lie?  

they were standard lie, I started to read that after aswell. Kinda silly they did the lie angle before we decided on a club and shaft but whatever i guess, I shoulda known 

[Larryd3]

OK, I'm going the other direction.  If you're already hitting the ball left, why would you want more upright irons that will increase the ball going left?  Why not try them 1* flat and see if it improves your ball flight direction?  if not, you can always bend them back the other ways.  I have a natural draw based swing, so for me 1* flat works best. I've tried other setups but the 1 flat is good for me.  Best wishes on the new irons, hope you really enjoy them.

[RickyBobby_PR]

20 minutes ago, Larryd3 said:

OK, I'm going the other direction.  If you're already hitting the ball left, why would you want more upright irons that will increase the ball going left?  Why not try them 1* flat and see if it improves your ball flight direction?  if not, you can always bend them back the other ways.  I have a natural draw based swing, so for me 1* flat works best. I've tried other setups but the 1 flat is good for me.  Best wishes on the new irons, hope you really enjoy them.

Remember the lie angle isn’t standard to every head. The mp20 is 1.5* flatter than the 718 mb so 1* still has him 1/2* flatter than the 718s.

His shot is a pull draw, that’s a result of path and face to path. What his fitting did was get a lie setting that lets him deliver the club better for his swing. 

[Buffly]

On 2/27/2021 at 9:58 AM, kmlp95 said:

awesome, thank you aswell I also enjoy other peoples opinions. anyone feel free to throw your 2 cents in here. 

I am struggling with a similar fit vs ball flight problem. My wrist to floor is much higher than what standard loft/lie clubs "fit" but I have been able to adjust my swing with most standard clubs or 2° upright.

Flat lie angles, no matter how I adjust, come into the turf toe down. This can cause the toe to dig first and open during the swing. Then to make ball first contact I would purposely hit thinner which developed a flinch.

All this to say that fitted to my specs of 2° upright allowed the sole of the club to enter the turf squarely. This allowed me to swing more freely and more accurate. 

One of my missed is getting stuck on my back foot and swiping the club across my body resulting in a pull. When I can keep my balance then I am able to swing out to the ball better which starts the ball online for me. Even with standard loft and lie clubs, with an in to out balanced swing I can get great turf interaction but my setup is a bit more squatted by a lil bit. 

I am going to try and get fit with longer clubs to see if that might help me not have to crouch so much. I feel fine with my mid irons but my shory irons and wedges feel too short. I don't like the feeling of standing really upright with the clubs more up and down so a longer club might help me get what I want. Time will tell with the help of fitter.