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The Torque Balanced Thread


GolfSpy MPR

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Who among us is using a torque-balanced putter? My new candidate came today: the Odyssey Seven Toe Up, pictured here with the putter it's trying to knock from my bag.

sevens.jpg

I know we've got @edingc with a LAB in his bag right now. I should add here: LAB has a series of videos on their YouTube channel in which they compare and contrast their putters with the other major torque balanced models: Edel, Axis1, and the Odyssey Toe Up I just got. They deserve major credit for this series: their spokesman obviously believes he's representing a superior product, but he's not bashful about praising aspects of his competitor's products. I was impressed. Here's the video on the Odyssey Toe Up:

All told, I'm pretty excited. I still have the older Odyssey Toe Up blade, and it was a model I putted well with. I love the Seven line from Odyssey, and so a Toe Up Seven really should be a great fit for me. I'll update this thread with my thoughts, and I figured this could be a place for the Torque-Balanced advocates to hang out.

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I’m back to Edel again after a two year hiatus. Just switched from the EAS 2.0 to the EAS 1.0 after a change in set-up. 

Driver: Ping G430 Max 9*, Ping Tour 70X

Fairway: Ping G425 15*, Ping Tour 70X

Hybrid: Ping G425 22*, Ping Tour 80X

Irons:  Ping i230 4-GW, TT DG X100

Wedges: :edel-golf-1: SMS 50D/54V/58D:Nippon:Modus 130 stiff, +1”

Putter:  :edel-golf-1: EAS 1.0

Ball: Titleist 2023 AVX

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@GolfSpy MPRThis is an EXCELLENT video by David Edel sharing his view on “toe flow” putters and why torque balance IS the answer.

 

Driver: Ping G430 Max 9*, Ping Tour 70X

Fairway: Ping G425 15*, Ping Tour 70X

Hybrid: Ping G425 22*, Ping Tour 80X

Irons:  Ping i230 4-GW, TT DG X100

Wedges: :edel-golf-1: SMS 50D/54V/58D:Nippon:Modus 130 stiff, +1”

Putter:  :edel-golf-1: EAS 1.0

Ball: Titleist 2023 AVX

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Let me throw this out for discussion: if torque balancing is an advantage, why is there virtually no representation of it on Tour?

And a better question: if it works, why did Bryson (who of anyone on Tour would be willing—almost eager—to use an unorthodox looking putter) abandon his Edel for a conventional head?

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1 hour ago, GolfSpy MPR said:

Let me throw this out for discussion: if torque balancing is an advantage, why is there virtually no representation of it on Tour?

And a better question: if it works, why did Bryson (who of anyone on Tour would be willing—almost eager—to use an unorthodox looking putter) abandon his Edel for a conventional head?

I think Dave somewhat answers your question about BAD’s approach at 0:55 in the video @PMookie posted above. Bryson virtually removes the incline plane (and wrist coil) with his super upright armlock setup. The result is an almost zero face rotation SBST stroke. Subsequently no need for torque balance but he must see some advantage to the consistent loft from the SIK roll face design. I feel like he has also referenced the super low torque shaft his particular SIK hosel will accept. But I’m not certain about any of it - just my 2 cents.

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Torque and putters is....

Spoiler

Illogical Spock GIFs | Tenor

"The toe up design makes it less resistant to twisting".  OK, but how much twisting do putters experience under normal use?  To what negative exponential ozf-in are we talking about here?  I'm a wee bit skeptical - seems far off into the minutiae 🤔.  But hey, I'm only recently getting spooled up on putter designs and how they fit with ones putting style... so I'll enjoy following along.

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3 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

Torque and putters is....

  Hide contents

Illogical Spock GIFs | Tenor

"The toe up design makes it less resistant to twisting".  OK, but how much twisting do putters experience under normal use?  To what negative exponential ozf-in are we talking about here?  I'm a wee bit skeptical - seems far off into the minutiae 🤔.  But hey, I'm only recently getting spooled up on putter designs and how they fit with ones putting style... so I'll enjoy following along.

Watch Edel’s video. The rotation of the putter isn’t from contact with the ball, it’s from manipulation by the person by how they hold the putter, stance, etc. Two different concepts altogether.

Driver: Ping G430 Max 9*, Ping Tour 70X

Fairway: Ping G425 15*, Ping Tour 70X

Hybrid: Ping G425 22*, Ping Tour 80X

Irons:  Ping i230 4-GW, TT DG X100

Wedges: :edel-golf-1: SMS 50D/54V/58D:Nippon:Modus 130 stiff, +1”

Putter:  :edel-golf-1: EAS 1.0

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1 hour ago, GolfSpy MPR said:

Let me throw this out for discussion: if torque balancing is an advantage, why is there virtually no representation of it on Tour?

And a better question: if it works, why did Bryson (who of anyone on Tour would be willing—almost eager—to use an unorthodox looking putter) abandon his Edel for a conventional head?

Two answers: money and..... Money.

Edel can’t afford to sponsor, that’s why Bryson is with Cobra. He gave them the opportunity, he wanted to stay with Edel, and did until Cobra approached him and promised to build him the irons. Edel doesn’t sponsor anyone on any tour. The answer to sponsorship and why folks on Tour play almost anything is because of money...

We also assume that tour guys know about physics and theories behind putter construction. If Ping and all other OEMs sell based-on “path”/toe hang, etc, why would the OEMs talk about torque balance to their players  and the advantages if they don’t offer it? 

 

Driver: Ping G430 Max 9*, Ping Tour 70X

Fairway: Ping G425 15*, Ping Tour 70X

Hybrid: Ping G425 22*, Ping Tour 80X

Irons:  Ping i230 4-GW, TT DG X100

Wedges: :edel-golf-1: SMS 50D/54V/58D:Nippon:Modus 130 stiff, +1”

Putter:  :edel-golf-1: EAS 1.0

Ball: Titleist 2023 AVX

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Same with LAB golfs reveler

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Here are my thoughts.   

Everyone's putting stroke is built around choices they make.  We pick a setup position/posture,  we pick how we hold the putter, and we we pick how we power the stroke.   Based on these choices the putter moves through the stroke and the putter has some amount of rotation.  Putters are designed to help us move the putter in the way our stroke needs.  Per Edel, the torque balanced putter is designed for someone that uses their hands to move the putter or a linear stroke.   

If a torque balanced putter helps you start the ball on your intended line and roll the ball a specific distance it is the right putter for you. 

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28 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Here are my thoughts.   

Everyone's putting stroke is built around choices they make.  We pick a setup position/posture,  we pick how we hold the putter, and we we pick how we power the stroke.   Based on these choices the putter moves through the stroke and the putter has some amount of rotation.  Putters are designed to help us move the putter in the way our stroke needs.  Per Edel, the torque balanced putter is designed for someone that uses their hands to move the putter or a linear stroke.   

If a torque balanced putter helps you start the ball on your intended line and roll the ball a specific distance it is the right putter for you. 

Exactly. It’s AN answer. Not THE answer. I’m sure there are golfers that could benefit from Toe Up putters. 

Ive tried them and disliked them. 
 

Odyssey tried to launch a Toe Up putter and it failed miserably. 
 

I love Edel and think he’s one of the smartest guys in the industry, but he’s also a salesman so of course he’s going to push his theories/products 
 

 

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9 minutes ago, jlukes said:

Exactly. It’s AN answer. Not THE answer. I’m sure there are golfers that could benefit from Toe Up putters. 

Ive tried them and disliked them. 
 

Odyssey tried to launch a Toe Up putter and it failed miserably. 
 

I love Edel and think he’s one of the smartest guys in the industry, but he’s also a salesman so of course he’s going to push his theories/products 
 

 

Ive tried them as well.  I can make them work,  but nothing radically better than the putter in my bag now.    The toe up design is just very radical and since so few people make it the average golfer just thinks gimmick.  Edel can be successful because of the who fitting process and because he is more of a boutique brand and people seek him out.   

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2 hours ago, cnosil said:

Here are my thoughts.   

Everyone's putting stroke is built around choices they make.  We pick a setup position/posture,  we pick how we hold the putter, and we we pick how we power the stroke.   Based on these choices the putter moves through the stroke and the putter has some amount of rotation.  Putters are designed to help us move the putter in the way our stroke needs.  Per Edel, the torque balanced putter is designed for someone that uses their hands to move the putter or a linear stroke.   

If a torque balanced putter helps you start the ball on your intended line and roll the ball a specific distance it is the right putter for you. 

Can you clarify “uses their hands or a linear stroke”?

Driver: Ping G430 Max 9*, Ping Tour 70X

Fairway: Ping G425 15*, Ping Tour 70X

Hybrid: Ping G425 22*, Ping Tour 80X

Irons:  Ping i230 4-GW, TT DG X100

Wedges: :edel-golf-1: SMS 50D/54V/58D:Nippon:Modus 130 stiff, +1”

Putter:  :edel-golf-1: EAS 1.0

Ball: Titleist 2023 AVX

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Some may not have listened to David explain toe flow vs torque balanced. SeeMore, LAB, Edel, they all talk about what the putter head does when on an incline plane, this is the major point so many miss. Physics of a golf club are completely different when measured vertically vs on the incline plane. This goes for every club in the bag. As David points-out, toe flow is inconsistent because one has to rotate the putter head at exactly the same timing every time to make it work consistently. The rate of rotation has to always be the same and by having to manipulate that rotation, it becomes inherently inconsistent. Add the fact that the “swing” is on an incline and its even more difficult. Again, even the folks at SeeMore point this out. Think of a handsy golfer who flips, or rotates the hands just before impact. Hard to do consistently. Same idea with putting when a club face is opening and closing through the swing. Hard to time....

Yep, folks can like how a putter looks and feels, but it doesn’t change the fact that the putter’s design can actually make putting more difficult.

Torque balance isn’t the answer for everyone, but David does give THE answer to the OP question in his video. That was the point I was trying to make....

Driver: Ping G430 Max 9*, Ping Tour 70X

Fairway: Ping G425 15*, Ping Tour 70X

Hybrid: Ping G425 22*, Ping Tour 80X

Irons:  Ping i230 4-GW, TT DG X100

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8 hours ago, GolfSpy MPR said:

Who among us is using a torque-balanced putter? My new candidate came today: the Odyssey Seven Toe Up, pictured here with the putter it's trying to knock from my bag.

sevens.jpg

I know we've got @edingc with a LAB in his bag right now. I should add here: LAB has a series of videos on their YouTube channel in which they compare and contrast their putters with the other major torque balanced models: Edel, Axis1, and the Odyssey Toe Up I just got. They deserve major credit for this series: their spokesman obviously believes he's representing a superior product, but he's not bashful about praising aspects of his competitor's products. I was impressed. Here's the video on the Odyssey Toe Up:

All told, I'm pretty excited. I still have the older Odyssey Toe Up blade, and it was a model I putted well with. I love the Seven line from Odyssey, and so a Toe Up Seven really should be a great fit for me. I'll update this thread with my thoughts, and I figured this could be a place for the Torque-Balanced advocates to hang out.

I've been gaming a LAB since late December 2020 and have seen a decent improvement (1-2 putts less, per 9 holes). Not sure if it's a direct credit to the tech of the putter, or a nod to a better virtual fitting experience than I could find with Evnroll for example. It's not magically turning me into Jordan Speith levels of putting but it has me holing more "makeable" putts from 10' and in. I wanted to convert more birdies, and save more pars, and so far so good. Like others have said there's no one size fits all solution, but I'd be interested to see if the greater majority of folks didn't make more putts with a torque balanced putter.

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6 hours ago, yungkory said:

I've been gaming a LAB since late December 2020 and have seen a decent improvement (1-2 putts less, per 9 holes). Not sure if it's a direct credit to the tech of the putter, or a nod to a better virtual fitting experience than I could find with Evnroll for example. It's not magically turning me into Jordan Speith levels of putting but it has me holing more "makeable" putts from 10' and in. I wanted to convert more birdies, and save more pars, and so far so good. Like others have said there's no one size fits all solution, but I'd be interested to see if the greater majority of folks didn't make more putts with a torque balanced putter.

were you fit for your L.A.B. or did you buy it OTR?

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On a lighter note: does it even deserve the Seven name of you can't pick up the ball with the fangs?

 

More seriously, while we can debate whether the torque ideas are beneficial or not, they're definitely real. One of my other putters is a Stroke Lab R Ball with a slant hosel, same length and grip as my new Toe Up. I had my wife hand me each one while I had my eyes closed, and I could tell them apart by rocking them back and forth while feeling for any tendency to want to open and close.

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8 hours ago, yungkory said:

I've been gaming a LAB since late December 2020 and have seen a decent improvement (1-2 putts less, per 9 holes). Not sure if it's a direct credit to the tech of the putter, or a nod to a better virtual fitting experience than I could find with Evnroll for example. It's not magically turning me into Jordan Speith levels of putting but it has me holing more "makeable" putts from 10' and in. I wanted to convert more birdies, and save more pars, and so far so good. Like others have said there's no one size fits all solution, but I'd be interested to see if the greater majority of folks didn't make more putts with a torque balanced putter.

I was waiting for you to chime in since I can't add any recent comments on my L.A.B. until I get out on the course more this spring. I saw an immediate improvement in my putting switching from the Spider X to the L.A.B., but like you said, I'm not convinced it's all in the tech. In my case, I think the Press II grip ensuring a consistent shaft lean helps me more than the lie-angle balance. And, at the end of the day, after spending $700+ on a putter, I practiced a lot more. Maybe I would have seen the same improvement with just more practice with the Spider X? Tough to tell.

I actually wanted an Edel first, but there were no fitters around me and with COVID-restrictions I was not able to travel out of state (Chicagoland area would have been the easiest place to find an Edel fitter...).

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54 minutes ago, GolfSpy MPR said:

On a lighter note: does it even deserve the Seven name of you can't pick up the ball with the fangs?

 

More seriously, while we can debate whether the torque ideas are beneficial or not, they're definitely real. One of my other putters is a Stroke Lab R Ball with a slant hosel, same length and grip as my new Toe Up. I had my wife hand me each one while I had my eyes closed, and I could tell them apart by rocking them back and forth while feeling for any tendency to want to open and close.

Ha, I new that putter was suspect 😆. Any new putter I get must have pick-up capability.

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4 hours ago, StrokerAce said:

were you fit for your L.A.B. or did you buy it OTR?

I did their video "fitting" after @edingc posted his results were within a degree of each other (I think) when he did both online and in person. There's no in person option for me on island sadly.

2 hours ago, edingc said:

I was waiting for you to chime in since I can't add any recent comments on my L.A.B. until I get out on the course more this spring. I saw an immediate improvement in my putting switching from the Spider X to the L.A.B., but like you said, I'm not convinced it's all in the tech. In my case, I think the Press II grip ensuring a consistent shaft lean helps me more than the lie-angle balance. And, at the end of the day, after spending $700+ on a putter, I practiced a lot more. Maybe I would have seen the same improvement with just more practice with the Spider X? Tough to tell.

I actually wanted an Edel first, but there were no fitters around me and with COVID-restrictions I was not able to travel out of state (Chicagoland area would have been the easiest place to find an Edel fi

Length might be a large contributing factor to my improvement. Matt @ LAB noted that my eyes were nearly beyond the target line at address, and the extra inch brought me inside the line at address now. Feels like I can see the line a bit better, but could be purely placebo.

At the end of the day, I notice that I'm typically 1-2 putts better than I was (on average) after putting the LAB in play, so I'm happy. Think I've only had 2 3-putts in my last 10 rounds which I'm thrilled with considering my proximity to hole isn't very great.

Small sample size still but here's a snap of where I play most. I got the LAB at the end of December so I'm not sure exactly which day it made its maiden voyage, but definitely haven't gamed anything else in 2021:

334DD040-07F5-423F-B634-D8E644FF42F1.png.de1976feadadb6cb4e39800a92fdc375.png

3F164C85-C58C-4610-8331-15EAC36DD5C1.png.f37f11e7c2137593c7caf67443628163.png

Yesterday was an anomaly, I put two recovery chip shots less than a foot from the cup and had 1-putts on the first 5 holes. Also 1/28 was when I made my ace so that's also kinda a statistical outlier.

Driver: :callaway-small: Rogue ST Max LS Tensei AV Blue S

3w/5w: :titelist-small: TSi2 Tensei AV Raw Blue S

4h: :mizuno-small: CLK 22* Hybrid Tensei CK Pro Blue 80HY S

Irons 5-PW: :mizuno-small: 223 Steelfiber PR 95 S

Wedges: :cleveland-small: RTX Zipcore Tour Rack 50, 54, 58 Steelfiber PR 105

Putter: LAB Link.1

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Can you clarify “uses their hands or a linear stroke”?

This is my understanding based on info from my putting instructor and watching some if the Edel videos. If you Do a search for linear stroke you can find an audio clip from David edel.

David; could be others, seems to classify stroke as linear or radial. When you make your stroke and use your shoulders the butt of the grip generally points at a single point like your belly button. Player focus is probably on swinging the head of the putter. In a linear stroke the hands are in
Control and the butt of the grip moves more left to right and the shaft stays more perpendicular to the ground. This is why Edel putts a lot of the fitting focus on the weights under the hands. Player focuses on hand movement over putter movement.

Again this is my interpretation of the information i have gathered on the putting stroke.

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
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45 minutes ago, cnosil said:


This is my understanding based on info from my putting instructor and watching some if the Edel videos. If you Do a search for linear stroke you can find an audio clip from David edel.

David; could be others, seems to classify stroke as linear or radial. When you make your stroke and use your shoulders the butt of the grip generally points at a single point like your belly button. Player focus is probably on swinging the head of the putter. In a linear stroke the hands are in
Control and the butt of the grip moves more left to right and the shaft stays more perpendicular to the ground. This is why Edel putts a lot of the fitting focus on the weights under the hands. Player focuses on hand movement over putter movement.

Again this is my interpretation of the information i have gathered on the putting stroke.

Ok, gotcha. Interesting info! I may be more linear, but no hands. I’ve adopted the style of holding the club that TXG showed in a video this year, shaft up the forearms, wrists in extension, then I just rock the shoulders keeping the hands out of the stroke. 
I remember in my first Edel fitting the Pro telling me that they try to use the weights to have the hands and head in a vertical line at impact, and the weights are also used for speed calibration. When I was putting to the string 15 feet away, he watched where the ball finished, and the pendulum of the stroke, and then worked with the weights inside the grip, along with the head weight.

 

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Well axis is offering a 30 day guarantee that it will help you putt better. Anyone bold enough? Has me thinking. 

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th.jpg.d6e2abdaeb04f007fd259c979f389de6.jpg  0211  2019 Unofficial Review

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, rbsiedsc said:

Well axis is offering a 30 day guarantee that it will help you putt better. Anyone bold enough? Has me thinking. 

First I've heard of them.  Their Umbra model is a very different looking design.  I kind of like the look of the Tour HM - it most closely resembles my B61. So besides the shaft axis being aligned/centered through the head COG, what other magic is going on with these?  Their video helps makes sense of what the "torque balance" moniker is getting at.  Further, they suggest face-balanced designs are meaningless from the standpoint that the way they are determined as FB vs. how used in the putter stroke/address position are disconnected.  

As an aspiring MGS Club-Ho, this had me tracking to give them a try... until I saw the $449 price 😲.  

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2 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

First I've heard of them.  Their Umbra model is a very different looking design.  I kind of like the look of the Tour HM - it most closely resembles my B61. So besides the shaft axis being aligned/centered through the head COG, what other magic is going on with these?  Their video helps makes sense of what the "torque balance" moniker is getting at.  Further, they suggest face-balanced designs are meaningless from the standpoint that the way they are determined as FB vs. how used in the putter stroke/address position are disconnected.  

As an aspiring MGS Club-Ho, this had me tracking to give them a try... until I saw the $449 price 😲.  

Haha yup. Might as well get a LAB then. 

Follow my journey to enjoying golf and going low

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DI: Caley 01X 18* with KBS PGH Stiff plus 95g

4-AW: th.jpg.d6e2abdaeb04f007fd259c979f389de6.jpg  0211  with KBS Tour Stiff 2.5* up 3/4" long, Soft stepped, MOI matched

Wedges     :cleveland-small: Zipcore 

Putter: L.A.B. Directed Force 2.1 69*/35" in blue 

 

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 :1332069271_TommyArmour:TAIII #2  Review here: TAIII Impact #2 Putter )

 :cleveland-small: Zipcore Tour Rack 54/full and 58/mid (review here)

th.jpg.d6e2abdaeb04f007fd259c979f389de6.jpg  0211  2019 Unofficial Review

 

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

After a couple of weeks now of indoor putting, I'm nearly certain that my new Toe Up Seven is going to be replacing the Seven Mini S in my signature.

The biggest con of this putter (and virtually all torque balanced putters) is obviously its looks. But at least for me, I've found it easier to get over it with the Seven Toe Up than I did with the older One Toe Up model that I used to play. Your mileage will certainly vary; I can certainly understand that there are some who could never get used to this:

toe up.jpg

But the odd shaft position, for whatever reason, doesn't really bother me.

So for the pros:

  • As our UK friends say: it does what's written on the tin. It simply doesn't want to open and close during the stroke. For me, that's perfect. It completely fits what I want to do in my putting stroke.
  • As always, I love the alignment cues of the Seven fangs. And they work even better for me with this model: I truly feel as though the long white lines are the tracks on which I take the putter back and through.
  • I'm loving the face.

toe-up.jpg

(Grateful for @GolfSpy Dave's work reviewing this putter, as I keep stealing his pictures here.)

It's difficult to capture in the photos, but the black bits on the face seem more metal-ly than I've seen on a lot of the White Hot+hinges Odyssey faces. The O-Works microhinge face was soft, almost to the point of mushy. The face on my EXO Indianapolis felt like a cheap piece of plastic. This one, for me, is perfect. And I know it's perfect simply because it took me a while before I even noticed it. For me, it's a totally neutral feel: not harsh, not clicky, not soft. It feels predictable, though the test for that won't happen until I can putt longer than 11 feet in my basement.

I've got a second PuttOut arriving today. I keep my PuttOut at my office (where I use my Evnroll Tour Stroke Trainer to practice). The second PuttOut will stay at home, and I'm looking forward to putting my torque-balanced Seven through some of the testing I normally do for my putters.

One possible coming modification: I have a search going on eBay for a used or discounted Gravity Grip. I had one of those on my Indianapolis, and when I pull that off my putter rack, it remains the putter in my collection that feels like exactly the right balance. Might see if I can replicate that with the Toe Up Seven.

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On 3/16/2021 at 5:29 PM, fixyurdivot said:

As an aspiring MGS Club-Ho, this had me tracking to give them a try... until I saw the $449 price 😲.  

Managed to snag a mint Axis1 Rose off eBay last year for $250. We spent a few weeks together on the practice green but it never made it into the bag for a proper loop. I flipped it for a substantial profit.

The (torque + COG) physics Luis talks about in that video are sensible, but for me personally, the 2-piece construction of the Rose head made for awful feel. Impact sounded almost hollow and I really struggled with pace. I’m accustomed to feeling the weight of the putter head but with the Axis1 it’s a much more unified feeling grip/shaft/head - almost like the head wasn’t even there. Or at the very least in a slightly different location than my eyes are actually seeing it. It’s bizarre and I couldn’t get comfortable with the feeling.

I know TXG has a real bugaboo for center shafted heads but IMO certain aspects of the physics Luis talks about are aligned with high MOI face balanced center shafted setups - like my Bobby Grace NYC Tour. My next experiment will likely be a Bobby Grace *asskicker mallet (similar to @GolfSpy MPR’s Toe Up Seven) but they are hard to come by used and I’m not willing to roll the dice for $500+ unless it’s very promising in a proper fitting.

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:cobra-small:______S9-1 Pro 15* - Matrix Ozik XCON 7 S
:nickent-small:________3DX 17* - Matrix Ozik Altus Hybrid SG
:Hogan:______ICON Black 4-PW - KBS Tour V S
:cleveland-small:__________588 RTG 49  RTX 52.10  56.12 - DG S400
BobbyGrace.png.1dc40002fcec0eee8603b71b3e706e89.png______Amazing Grace NYC Tour CS
:taylormade-small:_______'19 TP5X
(the preceding have all been gamer approved)

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23 hours ago, GolfSpy MPR said:

After a couple of weeks now of indoor putting, I'm nearly certain that my new Toe Up Seven is going to be replacing the Seven Mini S in my signature.

The biggest con of this putter (and virtually all torque balanced putters) is obviously its looks. But at least for me, I've found it easier to get over it with the Seven Toe Up than I did with the older One Toe Up model that I used to play. Your mileage will certainly vary; I can certainly understand that there are some who could never get used to this:

toe up.jpg

But the odd shaft position, for whatever reason, doesn't really bother me.

So for the pros:

  • As our UK friends say: it does what's written on the tin. It simply doesn't want to open and close during the stroke. For me, that's perfect. It completely fits what I want to do in my putting stroke.
  • As always, I love the alignment cues of the Seven fangs. And they work even better for me with this model: I truly feel as though the long white lines are the tracks on which I take the putter back and through.
  • I'm loving the face.

toe-up.jpg

(Grateful for @GolfSpy Dave's work reviewing this putter, as I keep stealing his pictures here.)

It's difficult to capture in the photos, but the black bits on the face seem more metal-ly than I've seen on a lot of the White Hot+hinges Odyssey faces. The O-Works microhinge face was soft, almost to the point of mushy. The face on my EXO Indianapolis felt like a cheap piece of plastic. This one, for me, is perfect. And I know it's perfect simply because it took me a while before I even noticed it. For me, it's a totally neutral feel: not harsh, not clicky, not soft. It feels predictable, though the test for that won't happen until I can putt longer than 11 feet in my basement.

I've got a second PuttOut arriving today. I keep my PuttOut at my office (where I use my Evnroll Tour Stroke Trainer to practice). The second PuttOut will stay at home, and I'm looking forward to putting my torque-balanced Seven through some of the testing I normally do for my putters.

One possible coming modification: I have a search going on eBay for a used or discounted Gravity Grip. I had one of those on my Indianapolis, and when I pull that off my putter rack, it remains the putter in my collection that feels like exactly the right balance. Might see if I can replicate that with the Toe Up Seven.

Happy you updated this as one of these is definitely on my radar. I can easily get over the shaft location, have always liked the looks of the #7 and my Scotty can get a little twisty sometimes.

Will be looking forward to your on-course results.

 

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I really need to look into more, never really heard of torque balanced putters before


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  • 3 weeks later...
On 3/11/2021 at 8:46 PM, cnosil said:

Here are my thoughts.   

Everyone's putting stroke is built around choices they make.  We pick a setup position/posture,  we pick how we hold the putter, and we we pick how we power the stroke.   Based on these choices the putter moves through the stroke and the putter has some amount of rotation.  Putters are designed to help us move the putter in the way our stroke needs.  Per Edel, the torque balanced putter is designed for someone that uses their hands to move the putter or a linear stroke.   

If a torque balanced putter helps you start the ball on your intended line and roll the ball a specific distance it is the right putter for you. 

What a great post! There's a crucial insight I hadn't grasped. I know 2 guys with LAB putters and they seem to think it's superior for everyone. Now I know why it probably isn't.

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