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The Torque Balanced Thread


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Can you clarify “uses their hands or a linear stroke”?

This is my understanding based on info from my putting instructor and watching some if the Edel videos. If you Do a search for linear stroke you can find an audio clip from David edel.

David; could be others, seems to classify stroke as linear or radial. When you make your stroke and use your shoulders the butt of the grip generally points at a single point like your belly button. Player focus is probably on swinging the head of the putter. In a linear stroke the hands are in
Control and the butt of the grip moves more left to right and the shaft stays more perpendicular to the ground. This is why Edel putts a lot of the fitting focus on the weights under the hands. Player focuses on hand movement over putter movement.

Again this is my interpretation of the information i have gathered on the putting stroke.
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45 minutes ago, cnosil said:


This is my understanding based on info from my putting instructor and watching some if the Edel videos. If you Do a search for linear stroke you can find an audio clip from David edel.

David; could be others, seems to classify stroke as linear or radial. When you make your stroke and use your shoulders the butt of the grip generally points at a single point like your belly button. Player focus is probably on swinging the head of the putter. In a linear stroke the hands are in
Control and the butt of the grip moves more left to right and the shaft stays more perpendicular to the ground. This is why Edel putts a lot of the fitting focus on the weights under the hands. Player focuses on hand movement over putter movement.

Again this is my interpretation of the information i have gathered on the putting stroke.

Ok, gotcha. Interesting info! I may be more linear, but no hands. I’ve adopted the style of holding the club that TXG showed in a video this year, shaft up the forearms, wrists in extension, then I just rock the shoulders keeping the hands out of the stroke. 
I remember in my first Edel fitting the Pro telling me that they try to use the weights to have the hands and head in a vertical line at impact, and the weights are also used for speed calibration. When I was putting to the string 15 feet away, he watched where the ball finished, and the pendulum of the stroke, and then worked with the weights inside the grip, along with the head weight.

 

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Well axis is offering a 30 day guarantee that it will help you putt better. Anyone bold enough? Has me thinking. 

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1 hour ago, rbsiedsc said:

Well axis is offering a 30 day guarantee that it will help you putt better. Anyone bold enough? Has me thinking. 

First I've heard of them.  Their Umbra model is a very different looking design.  I kind of like the look of the Tour HM - it most closely resembles my B61. So besides the shaft axis being aligned/centered through the head COG, what other magic is going on with these?  Their video helps makes sense of what the "torque balance" moniker is getting at.  Further, they suggest face-balanced designs are meaningless from the standpoint that the way they are determined as FB vs. how used in the putter stroke/address position are disconnected.  

As an aspiring MGS Club-Ho, this had me tracking to give them a try... until I saw the $449 price 😲.  

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2 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

First I've heard of them.  Their Umbra model is a very different looking design.  I kind of like the look of the Tour HM - it most closely resembles my B61. So besides the shaft axis being aligned/centered through the head COG, what other magic is going on with these?  Their video helps makes sense of what the "torque balance" moniker is getting at.  Further, they suggest face-balanced designs are meaningless from the standpoint that the way they are determined as FB vs. how used in the putter stroke/address position are disconnected.  

As an aspiring MGS Club-Ho, this had me tracking to give them a try... until I saw the $449 price 😲.  

Haha yup. Might as well get a LAB then. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

After a couple of weeks now of indoor putting, I'm nearly certain that my new Toe Up Seven is going to be replacing the Seven Mini S in my signature.

The biggest con of this putter (and virtually all torque balanced putters) is obviously its looks. But at least for me, I've found it easier to get over it with the Seven Toe Up than I did with the older One Toe Up model that I used to play. Your mileage will certainly vary; I can certainly understand that there are some who could never get used to this:

toe up.jpg

But the odd shaft position, for whatever reason, doesn't really bother me.

So for the pros:

  • As our UK friends say: it does what's written on the tin. It simply doesn't want to open and close during the stroke. For me, that's perfect. It completely fits what I want to do in my putting stroke.
  • As always, I love the alignment cues of the Seven fangs. And they work even better for me with this model: I truly feel as though the long white lines are the tracks on which I take the putter back and through.
  • I'm loving the face.

toe-up.jpg

(Grateful for @GolfSpy Dave's work reviewing this putter, as I keep stealing his pictures here.)

It's difficult to capture in the photos, but the black bits on the face seem more metal-ly than I've seen on a lot of the White Hot+hinges Odyssey faces. The O-Works microhinge face was soft, almost to the point of mushy. The face on my EXO Indianapolis felt like a cheap piece of plastic. This one, for me, is perfect. And I know it's perfect simply because it took me a while before I even noticed it. For me, it's a totally neutral feel: not harsh, not clicky, not soft. It feels predictable, though the test for that won't happen until I can putt longer than 11 feet in my basement.

I've got a second PuttOut arriving today. I keep my PuttOut at my office (where I use my Evnroll Tour Stroke Trainer to practice). The second PuttOut will stay at home, and I'm looking forward to putting my torque-balanced Seven through some of the testing I normally do for my putters.

One possible coming modification: I have a search going on eBay for a used or discounted Gravity Grip. I had one of those on my Indianapolis, and when I pull that off my putter rack, it remains the putter in my collection that feels like exactly the right balance. Might see if I can replicate that with the Toe Up Seven.

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On 3/16/2021 at 5:29 PM, fixyurdivot said:

As an aspiring MGS Club-Ho, this had me tracking to give them a try... until I saw the $449 price 😲.  

Managed to snag a mint Axis1 Rose off eBay last year for $250. We spent a few weeks together on the practice green but it never made it into the bag for a proper loop. I flipped it for a substantial profit.

The (torque + COG) physics Luis talks about in that video are sensible, but for me personally, the 2-piece construction of the Rose head made for awful feel. Impact sounded almost hollow and I really struggled with pace. I’m accustomed to feeling the weight of the putter head but with the Axis1 it’s a much more unified feeling grip/shaft/head - almost like the head wasn’t even there. Or at the very least in a slightly different location than my eyes are actually seeing it. It’s bizarre and I couldn’t get comfortable with the feeling.

I know TXG has a real bugaboo for center shafted heads but IMO certain aspects of the physics Luis talks about are aligned with high MOI face balanced center shafted setups - like my Bobby Grace NYC Tour. My next experiment will likely be a Bobby Grace *asskicker mallet (similar to @GolfSpy MPR’s Toe Up Seven) but they are hard to come by used and I’m not willing to roll the dice for $500+ unless it’s very promising in a proper fitting.

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23 hours ago, GolfSpy MPR said:

After a couple of weeks now of indoor putting, I'm nearly certain that my new Toe Up Seven is going to be replacing the Seven Mini S in my signature.

The biggest con of this putter (and virtually all torque balanced putters) is obviously its looks. But at least for me, I've found it easier to get over it with the Seven Toe Up than I did with the older One Toe Up model that I used to play. Your mileage will certainly vary; I can certainly understand that there are some who could never get used to this:

toe up.jpg

But the odd shaft position, for whatever reason, doesn't really bother me.

So for the pros:

  • As our UK friends say: it does what's written on the tin. It simply doesn't want to open and close during the stroke. For me, that's perfect. It completely fits what I want to do in my putting stroke.
  • As always, I love the alignment cues of the Seven fangs. And they work even better for me with this model: I truly feel as though the long white lines are the tracks on which I take the putter back and through.
  • I'm loving the face.

toe-up.jpg

(Grateful for @GolfSpy Dave's work reviewing this putter, as I keep stealing his pictures here.)

It's difficult to capture in the photos, but the black bits on the face seem more metal-ly than I've seen on a lot of the White Hot+hinges Odyssey faces. The O-Works microhinge face was soft, almost to the point of mushy. The face on my EXO Indianapolis felt like a cheap piece of plastic. This one, for me, is perfect. And I know it's perfect simply because it took me a while before I even noticed it. For me, it's a totally neutral feel: not harsh, not clicky, not soft. It feels predictable, though the test for that won't happen until I can putt longer than 11 feet in my basement.

I've got a second PuttOut arriving today. I keep my PuttOut at my office (where I use my Evnroll Tour Stroke Trainer to practice). The second PuttOut will stay at home, and I'm looking forward to putting my torque-balanced Seven through some of the testing I normally do for my putters.

One possible coming modification: I have a search going on eBay for a used or discounted Gravity Grip. I had one of those on my Indianapolis, and when I pull that off my putter rack, it remains the putter in my collection that feels like exactly the right balance. Might see if I can replicate that with the Toe Up Seven.

Happy you updated this as one of these is definitely on my radar. I can easily get over the shaft location, have always liked the looks of the #7 and my Scotty can get a little twisty sometimes.

Will be looking forward to your on-course results.

 

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I really need to look into more, never really heard of torque balanced putters before


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  • 3 weeks later...
On 3/11/2021 at 8:46 PM, cnosil said:

Here are my thoughts.   

Everyone's putting stroke is built around choices they make.  We pick a setup position/posture,  we pick how we hold the putter, and we we pick how we power the stroke.   Based on these choices the putter moves through the stroke and the putter has some amount of rotation.  Putters are designed to help us move the putter in the way our stroke needs.  Per Edel, the torque balanced putter is designed for someone that uses their hands to move the putter or a linear stroke.   

If a torque balanced putter helps you start the ball on your intended line and roll the ball a specific distance it is the right putter for you. 

What a great post! There's a crucial insight I hadn't grasped. I know 2 guys with LAB putters and they seem to think it's superior for everyone. Now I know why it probably isn't.

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I have gone completely torque'less. I put a LAB in the bag. It is big and ugly but it seems to actually work. 

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