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Draw biased drivers vs working on swing


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Just did truefit online and it gave me two draw based drivers (also not low spin which I need).  I also saw a golf coach that said stay away from draw biased drivers. So what does everyone else think? Is it selling out getting a draw biased driver or should you work on your swing to not need driver help? 

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Driver: :callaway-small:   Epic Max LS :Fuji:Ventus Black 6x 44.5" 

3wHL: :callaway-small: Rogue ST LS 75x  Tensei AV Blue w/ xlink

7w: :callaway-small:Apex UW 21* MMT 80S

DI: Caley 01X 18* with KBS PGH Stiff plus 95g

4-AW: th.jpg.d6e2abdaeb04f007fd259c979f389de6.jpg  0211  with KBS Tour Stiff 2.5* up 3/4" long, Soft stepped, MOI matched

Wedges     :cleveland-small: Zipcore 

Putter: L.A.B. Directed Force 2.1 69*/35" in blue 

 

Ball:  TBD

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Bag: Vessel VLX 2.0

Grip: Lamkin Sonar +  Midsize 

My Reviews:

Caley 01X Driving Iron Review 2023

Max Swing Speed Training and Speed Progress: Current Speed 120 in the MGS Speed Challenge (updated 3/15/23)

 :1332069271_TommyArmour:TAIII #2  Review here: TAIII Impact #2 Putter )

 :cleveland-small: Zipcore Tour Rack 54/full and 58/mid (review here)

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I think you need to work on the swing.  The problem with today's society is that we all look for the QUICK FIX.  We want to blame something else instead of ourselves.  Look, you are a golfer, golf is hard and takes a long time to get good.  It's not the driver that will fix any problem, it's the swing path or an open/closed face at impact.  Now, don't get me wrong, a biased driver may help a bit, but it's not the end all be all solution.  Take some lessons, hit the range and put the time in to improve.  Enjoy the process.

   Driver:  :callaway-small: Epic Flash Sub Zero Hzdrs Smoke x flex 70g

3 Wood:  :titelist-small: 917 w/ Diamana Whiteboard stiff

5 Wood : :callaway-small: Epic Flash 18* Hzdrs Smoke stiff

4 Hybrid: image.png.cf6ab25979c6727ff31e6cc6f719636c.png TSi3 Hzdrs Smoke X flex

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A few years back I bought an adjustable driver - GBB, and thought by adjusting the sliding weight it would help my slice. Nope - slice was just as bad. Today I game a 410SFT, and generally don't slice but it's because I worked on my swing. On the other hand I haven't tried a new adjustable driver to see how much of the slice elimination was due to the SFT and how much to the swing change. My sense is that the swing change made the biggest difference. 

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54 minutes ago, jlukes said:

I hear all the time - on here, from my friends, from random people I play with - that someone is working on changing there swing.  When i start asking questions about how they are going about it, I can see that is is more a hope and a prayer more than an actual plan.  Swing changes are HARD and take time.   Most amateurs do not have the time required to drastically change their swing.  Now some are capable of changing things with much less work put in than others, but those people are not the norm.

If you are TRULY going to be working on changing your swing, then yes - I would say your coach is right.  But be honest with yourself.  If changing your swing is just watching a bunch of youtube videos, going to the range a few times and hoping to see results, then no, you shouldn't stay away from draw biased driver 

 

 

This post nails especially the last paragraph.

 

Just my $.02

most golfers have a swing that results in a ball flight that goes left to right for rh golfers and vice versa for lh. The draw bias driver isn’t going to make them start automatically hitting the ball right to left. It’s going to help minimize the amount of right to left, for some it could make the pull shots they hit even worse.

This is why getting a proper fit is better than going down the rabbit hole of draw vs fade bias drivers, low vs high launch and/or spin heads and shafts. 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

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Love when the system merges two replies. 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

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Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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I'm in the process of making a swing change and I can assure you it takes work and time to see the results pay off.  While a draw biased club may help some people with a fairly decent swing turn a slight fade into a draw, it's not going to magically turn a huge slice into a nice baby draw.  I see nothing wrong with draw biased clubs being used to help a minor issue, but don't expect such adjustments to fix fundamentally bad swings.  

Driver: :callaway-small: Rogue ST Max (10.5* set at -1 and neutral) -- Mitsubishi Tensai Blue 55g R shaft

Fairway: :callaway-small: Rogue ST Max 3 wood (16.5*) and Heaven Wood (20*)-- Tensai Blue 55g R shaft

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Putter: L.A.B. DF 2.1 -- BGT Stability shaft

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Work on the swing and don’t buy the marketing crap. With 5 lessons (first time ever getting lessons) I’m hitting the ball the straightest ever, and more consistently too. The coaching has made a huge difference for me to the point where my swing actually feels comfortable! I haven’t added much distance, but I swinging easier and haven’t lost any either. My advice is invest in a local pro!


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Thanks everyone for the replies. As an aside I am doing swing work with the planemate daily and my miss with driver is two way and tends to change as the round goes on, right around the turn. I was never a fan of draw biased ( have an old burner draw that was terrible for me) yet feel my EF SZ may be hurting me more than helping. Will keep grinding on my changes and see what improvements this year brings. Hopefully a full season with a shorter shaft does me some good. 

Follow my journey to enjoying golf and going low

Driver: :callaway-small:   Epic Max LS :Fuji:Ventus Black 6x 44.5" 

3wHL: :callaway-small: Rogue ST LS 75x  Tensei AV Blue w/ xlink

7w: :callaway-small:Apex UW 21* MMT 80S

DI: Caley 01X 18* with KBS PGH Stiff plus 95g

4-AW: th.jpg.d6e2abdaeb04f007fd259c979f389de6.jpg  0211  with KBS Tour Stiff 2.5* up 3/4" long, Soft stepped, MOI matched

Wedges     :cleveland-small: Zipcore 

Putter: L.A.B. Directed Force 2.1 69*/35" in blue 

 

Ball:  TBD

Shot Tracking: :ShotScope:

Bag: Vessel VLX 2.0

Grip: Lamkin Sonar +  Midsize 

My Reviews:

Caley 01X Driving Iron Review 2023

Max Swing Speed Training and Speed Progress: Current Speed 120 in the MGS Speed Challenge (updated 3/15/23)

 :1332069271_TommyArmour:TAIII #2  Review here: TAIII Impact #2 Putter )

 :cleveland-small: Zipcore Tour Rack 54/full and 58/mid (review here)

th.jpg.d6e2abdaeb04f007fd259c979f389de6.jpg  0211  2019 Unofficial Review

 

 

 

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If you're going to go with the driver route, do your homework. TXG did a review a little bit ago looking at draw biased drivers. Some really forced a change whereas others just neutralized and minimized the slice. So even buying a driver might not be a good thing if you get a draw biased driver that focuses on bug changes when you just want a minimization to neutral. 

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Ping G400 3 wood.

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Cleveland CBX launcher irons (5-PW). 

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Odyssey White Hot Pro 2.0 putter.

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I picked up a Rogue draw bias driver last year.  Before I continue I will say that I only played 45 holes last year.  While it seemed to help a bit in keeping shots straighter, I also ripped off some wicked hooks that I have NEVER done before.  I just got fitted for a new (used driver for this year as I decided the draw driver was not for me.  I’ve joined a club and plan on getting lessons with the pro (which I also have never done before). I believe that there are surely some fundamental things I am doing wrong (grip, stance, set up) that may help me. In short I think taking a little time to fix the fundamental flaws is the real first step, so I’m back to a more neutral setup. If after that, I think a little tweaking of equipment would be beneficial, then I will rethink it. 

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If you go down the route of buying it, test it out to first to see if it has the results that you are expecting it to. Things that should theoretically help don't always play out the way you expect them to.

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I like it but not sure if it's the slice killer that they make it out to be .. I can still slice it and do once in a while on bad swing mechanics. I actually learned how to draw the ball and feel like the driver does help on some miss hits makes it an offline left to right instead of a slice. 

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4 hours ago, rbsiedsc said:

Thanks everyone for the replies. As an aside I am doing swing work with the planemate daily and my miss with driver is two way and tends to change as the round goes on, right around the turn. I was never a fan of draw biased ( have an old burner draw that was terrible for me) yet feel my EF SZ may be hurting me more than helping. Will keep grinding on my changes and see what improvements this year brings. Hopefully a full season with a shorter shaft does me some good. 

If you truly have a 2 way miss, then why look into a draw bias? Your misses left will be even worse? 

I would say that you may be better served by a better fitted shaft which can help stabilize the head to get a more consistent impact and miss.

Driver: :titelist-small: TSi4 8* w/ Tensei AV Raw White 65gr X shaft set to D-1 Hosel
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Just now, The 19th Hole said:

If you truly have a 2 way miss, then why look into a draw bias? Your misses left will be even worse? 

I would say that you may be better served by a better fitted shaft which can help stabilize the head to get a more consistent impact and miss.

That is also part of the search 🙂 Experimented with a Fuji pro TS 7X at 44.5" and helped my misses but distance was down. Now testing a Tensei Pro Orange 6S tipped 1" at 44.75" to see if that helps. First time out was rough but with more practice will see how it looks.

Follow my journey to enjoying golf and going low

Driver: :callaway-small:   Epic Max LS :Fuji:Ventus Black 6x 44.5" 

3wHL: :callaway-small: Rogue ST LS 75x  Tensei AV Blue w/ xlink

7w: :callaway-small:Apex UW 21* MMT 80S

DI: Caley 01X 18* with KBS PGH Stiff plus 95g

4-AW: th.jpg.d6e2abdaeb04f007fd259c979f389de6.jpg  0211  with KBS Tour Stiff 2.5* up 3/4" long, Soft stepped, MOI matched

Wedges     :cleveland-small: Zipcore 

Putter: L.A.B. Directed Force 2.1 69*/35" in blue 

 

Ball:  TBD

Shot Tracking: :ShotScope:

Bag: Vessel VLX 2.0

Grip: Lamkin Sonar +  Midsize 

My Reviews:

Caley 01X Driving Iron Review 2023

Max Swing Speed Training and Speed Progress: Current Speed 120 in the MGS Speed Challenge (updated 3/15/23)

 :1332069271_TommyArmour:TAIII #2  Review here: TAIII Impact #2 Putter )

 :cleveland-small: Zipcore Tour Rack 54/full and 58/mid (review here)

th.jpg.d6e2abdaeb04f007fd259c979f389de6.jpg  0211  2019 Unofficial Review

 

 

 

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42 minutes ago, rbsiedsc said:

That is also part of the search 🙂 Experimented with a Fuji pro TS 7X at 44.5" and helped my misses but distance was down. Now testing a Tensei Pro Orange 6S tipped 1" at 44.75" to see if that helps. First time out was rough but with more practice will see how it looks.

I also think @The 19th Hole has a point I bought the PING SFT because I got a really good deal on it and bought it with out getting fitted so I ended up getting fitted for a new shaft and it definitely made a difference. 

:cobra-small: Speedzone Driver Tensei AV Blue or  :ping-small: G400 SFT 10. KBS TD 50 Category 3 shaft 

:cobra-small: King Speedzone Black Yellow Fairway 3 wood Tensei AV Blue 65 

:cobra-small: F9 SpeedBack Black Grey Fairway 5 Wood   :Fuji: ATMOS Tour Spec Blue 7 shaft

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:ping-small:   Glide 2.0 SS Wedges 54 & 58 

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Unless you predominantly strike it between the heel and center of face, I would avoid a draw biased head. They shift the CG toward the heel and makes toe side misses hook more and you can start hitting ducks that drop out of the air with no spin. 

A lot of comments about swing fixes on here... Each player will have a tendency for a left or right swing path which is better than trying to hit 0 degrees or straight and then have misses to each side. Is switching from a fade to a draw or vice versa going to make you a better player? A draw head is for someone who's pattern is out to in with a heel bias and they want the ball to cut less. These heads don't magically eliminate slices, they just bias the ball to the left (for righties). Meaningful swing changes takes 5000+ reps to engrain, with deliberate focus on the new motion as opposed to 5000 7 irons at the range to the same flag. Not everyone has the time, effort, or interest level for that commitment which is why this product is created; to play better with your current or similar swing. 

I would personally avoid draw heads, they are generally less forgiving and adjustable than their neutral flight counterparts. Between adjustable weights and hosels, you can tune a neutral driver to adequate fade bias that can be dialled back as needed. 

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19 minutes ago, BMart519 said:

Unless you predominantly strike it between the heel and center of face, I would avoid a draw biased head. They shift the CG toward the heel and makes toe side misses hook more and you can start hitting ducks that drop out of the air with no spin. 

A lot of comments about swing fixes on here... Each player will have a tendency for a left or right swing path which is better than trying to hit 0 degrees or straight and then have misses to each side. Is switching from a fade to a draw or vice versa going to make you a better player? A draw head is for someone who's pattern is out to in with a heel bias and they want the ball to cut less. These heads don't magically eliminate slices, they just bias the ball to the left (for righties). Meaningful swing changes takes 5000+ reps to engrain, with deliberate focus on the new motion as opposed to 5000 7 irons at the range to the same flag. Not everyone has the time, effort, or interest level for that commitment which is why this product is created; to play better with your current or similar swing. 

I would personally avoid draw heads, they are generally less forgiving and adjustable than their neutral flight counterparts. Between adjustable weights and hosels, you can tune a neutral driver to adequate fade bias that can be dialled back as needed. 

To answer your question,  my miss is between heel and center. After talking with others, likely due to a casting move in my swing along with being OTT. So if I do 200 days at 30 reps a day, I should be able to engrain. Although that doesn't count the 100s of swings ill make on the course that may not be ideal. Thanks for the perspective. My EF SZ is adjustable so I will be tinkering with that setup

Follow my journey to enjoying golf and going low

Driver: :callaway-small:   Epic Max LS :Fuji:Ventus Black 6x 44.5" 

3wHL: :callaway-small: Rogue ST LS 75x  Tensei AV Blue w/ xlink

7w: :callaway-small:Apex UW 21* MMT 80S

DI: Caley 01X 18* with KBS PGH Stiff plus 95g

4-AW: th.jpg.d6e2abdaeb04f007fd259c979f389de6.jpg  0211  with KBS Tour Stiff 2.5* up 3/4" long, Soft stepped, MOI matched

Wedges     :cleveland-small: Zipcore 

Putter: L.A.B. Directed Force 2.1 69*/35" in blue 

 

Ball:  TBD

Shot Tracking: :ShotScope:

Bag: Vessel VLX 2.0

Grip: Lamkin Sonar +  Midsize 

My Reviews:

Caley 01X Driving Iron Review 2023

Max Swing Speed Training and Speed Progress: Current Speed 120 in the MGS Speed Challenge (updated 3/15/23)

 :1332069271_TommyArmour:TAIII #2  Review here: TAIII Impact #2 Putter )

 :cleveland-small: Zipcore Tour Rack 54/full and 58/mid (review here)

th.jpg.d6e2abdaeb04f007fd259c979f389de6.jpg  0211  2019 Unofficial Review

 

 

 

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14 hours ago, rbsiedsc said:

Is it selling out getting a draw biased driver or should you work on your swing to not need driver help?

Not to my mind.  Expecting equipment design to remedy fundamental swing issues is unrealistic.  But minor swing issues that may just be challenging to change (think limited ability to rotate due to shoulder, back, etc.) can often be offset by new technology.  Not saying that one shouldn't also work on swing mechanics to fix unwanted ball flight, but tour players practice all the time and still use these designs... why shouldn't we?   

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Any time I have an adjustable driver I almost always put it in a D setting and just leave it there. It doesn't fix a banana slice but it gives me the confidence that I can go after it on the tee and if my swing is off, it's a fade in the short stuff vs a slice in the trees. 

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:mizuno-small: ST-Z 4h Linq Blue R Flex
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:cleveland-small: Launcher CBX 6i-PW
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26 minutes ago, russtopherb said:

Any time I have an adjustable driver I almost always put it in a D setting and just leave it there. It doesn't fix a banana slice but it gives me the confidence that I can go after it on the tee and if my swing is off, it's a fade in the short stuff vs a slice in the trees. 

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2 hours ago, rbsiedsc said:

To answer your question,  my miss is between heel and center. After talking with others, likely due to a casting move in my swing along with being OTT. So if I do 200 days at 30 reps a day, I should be able to engrain. Although that doesn't count the 100s of swings ill make on the course that may not be ideal. Thanks for the perspective. My EF SZ is adjustable so I will be tinkering with that setup

The 200 days at 30 good swings a day do no good if you throw in rounds of golf with with bad swings in-between reps.  Might as well not do them.  To make a swing change permanent where you are altering swing plane and club path, you have to commit to making the change; otherwise the body reverts back to what it knows best.  Read about myelin in The Talent Code by Daniel Coyle.

When I started playing golf, I had the big slice.  I played it for a few years trying to get better; didn't work, and I decided I would either give up the game or learn to hit the ball straight(er).  My tendency today is a straight ball with a little fade.  If I play that shot, I don't get into a lot of trouble off the tee.  Sometimes I hit a slight draw, but it doesn't hurt me.  Sometimes I hit a push, but it doesn't hurt me either.  I don't mind a draw bias driver; it might give me a little less fade, but it's not significant.  If I put an adjustable driver in the Fade position though, I'm back to a bigger slice.  

I know you are working on your swing, and I've seen improvement since you started.  Fixing a swing takes time.  Most people take a lesson with the expectation that they will automatically play better and get frustrated when they don't.  If you can play a draw bias driver or adjust your club a little and play well with it, I see no reason not to do it.  You can always buy a new driver when your swing has changed.  Swings change, whether we try to make them change or because we get older.  It's a good reason to buy new clubs!  

We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.”

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18 hours ago, rbsiedsc said:

Just did truefit online and it gave me two draw based drivers (also not low spin which I need).  I also saw a golf coach that said stay away from draw biased drivers. So what does everyone else think? Is it selling out getting a draw biased driver or should you work on your swing to not need driver help? 

My input is this.    If you have a "slice", or double-cross hook then you need to work on your swing to be able to keep the ball in play.  I'm not sure what your drives look like.  But if they are drastic hooks and slices then an adjustable driver isn't going to help much.  You need to work on your swing  by yourself with practice/range time and maybe with a couple of lessons  to ensure basics are good, setup, grip, takeaway, etc.  With this hopefully you will end up with a workable NON SLICE, NON HOOK driver swing.

  I ended up with a workable driver swing, but it was a FADE, not a slice.  Aim down the left and my drive would fade right about 5-10 yards back to the right, hopefully near the middle of the fairway, this made dogleg lefts very tough, and trees on the left near the tee box troublesome.  I won an adjustable driver some years ago and set if to a slight draw bias and it  eliminated most of the fade. I've used it for 6-7years now.   I would note that a couple of times I reset it to neutral, and found that the fade was still there.  It is still set to draw bias.  This was a lot of words to say that I believe an adjustable driver does have a place, and can help  a lot under the right circumstances.  If you reach a place where your drives are a mostly consistent fade, or draw, which requires that you aim down the left edge, or right edge of the fairway then an adjustable driver may help you aim more down the middle, and get more balls in the fairway.

Driver: Cobra King Speedzone

Irons:  :callaway-small: Mavrik 4-GW

Wedges:  :cleveland-small: CG-14 56 & RTX 52

Putter:  :ping-small: Scottsdale Wolverine

Woods:  Gigagolf  3W, 2H, 3H

Ball:  Srixon Z-Star XV 

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On 3/16/2021 at 6:29 PM, Kenny B said:

The 200 days at 30 good swings a day do no good if you throw in rounds of golf with with bad swings in-between reps.  Might as well not do them.  To make a swing change permanent where you are altering swing plane and club path, you have to commit to making the change; otherwise the body reverts back to what it knows best.  Read about myelin in The Talent Code by Daniel Coyle.

So you are saying that it is impossible to get better at golf if you are playing rounds in between? If that is what you are saying I disagree with you. Practice, practice, practice... Allow the swing changes to creep in while on the course. I am in the middle of a swing change and it is working and when I am out on the course I will do an exaggerated practice swing and then step up and just swing with no swing thought. You can do both. Could it take a little bit longer to get the swing perfect this way, sure, but the best part of playing golf is... playing.

Edited by stephenmatt
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1 hour ago, stephenmatt said:

So you are saying that it is impossible to get better at golf if you are playing rounds in between? If that is what you are saying I disagree with you. Practice, practice, practice... Allow the swing changes to creep in while on the course. I am in the middle of a swing change and it is working and when I am out on the course I will do a practice swing exaggerated and then step up and just swing with no swing thought. You can do both. Could it take a little bit longer to get the swing perfect this way, sure, but the best part of playing golf is... playing.

Some people are better at it than others.  I glad it's working for you; I wasn't good at it.  If you are playing on the course practicing your swing thoughts/drills, I agree with you.  If you spend an hour or two a day working through a drill on the range and then the next day play in a league or any round where there's pressure, I will agree with Daniel Coyle.  The mind and body will do what they know best, and it is not the new swing change.  Can you get better... yes, if you minimize the pressure situations.  It will just take longer.  

Players have to make a choice; put in the effort to make a change permanent sooner, or drag out improvement over a longer period of time, while enjoying more time spent playing.  For the pros it's a job.  When a pro makes a swing change, they do it during their off season and hit thousands of balls until the new swing habits have replaced their old swing habits.  In competition they know that they can't have an old habit resurface.  It's funny, most amateurs think all they need to do to get better is take a lesson or watch a YouTube video and hit a couple of buckets of balls.  

We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.”

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15 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

The placebo effect... never thought of it that way!

BRILLIANT - Pipe Baby | Meme Generator

How is that a placebo effect? Closing the face gives me a little more chance of a less open face at impact, which is my driver "miss" so if I leave the face a little more open that I would like, the D setting is going to give me a better result than a driver with a neutral face that would in turn, be more open at contact under the same conditions.

In my  :wilson_staff_small:  carry bag:
:mizuno-small: ST-X 10.5* Kai'li Blue R Flex
:mizuno-small: ST-Z 15* Kai/li Blue R Flex
:mizuno-small: ST-Z 4h Linq Blue R Flex
:cleveland-small: Launcher 5h
:cleveland-small: Launcher CBX 6i-PW
:cleveland-small: CBX 54* & 58*
:cleveland-small: Huntington Beach #10
:bridgestone-small: e12 Contact
CURRENTLY TESTING - Mizuno Long Game

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11 minutes ago, russtopherb said:

How is that a placebo effect? Closing the face gives me a little more chance of a less open face at impact, which is my driver "miss" so if I leave the face a little more open that I would like, the D setting is going to give me a better result than a driver with a neutral face that would in turn, be more open at contact under the same conditions.

Just kidding Russ. Like you, the draw bias helps my natural fade stay a bit straighter and minimizes those swing paths that would otherwise produce really bad results. I play the G400 SFT versions in 3w and 5w for the same help.

:ping-small: G410 Plus, 9 Degree Driver 

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 16 Degree 3w

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 19 Degree 5w

:srixon-small:  ZX5 Irons 4-AW 

:ping-small: Glide 2.0 56 Degree SW   (removed from double secret probation 😍)

:EVNROLL: ER5v Putter  (Evnroll ER5v Official Review)

:odyssey-small: AI-One Milled Seven T CH (Currently Under Product Test)

 

 

 

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11 hours ago, Kenny B said:

Some people are better at it than others.  I glad it's working for you; I wasn't good at it.  If you are playing on the course practicing your swing thoughts/drills, I agree with you.  If you spend an hour or two a day working through a drill on the range and then the next day play in a league or any round where there's pressure, I will agree with Daniel Coyle.  The mind and body will do what they know best, and it is not the new swing change.  Can you get better... yes, if you minimize the pressure situations.  It will just take longer.  

Players have to make a choice; put in the effort to make a change permanent sooner, or drag out improvement over a longer period of time, while enjoying more time spent playing.  For the pros it's a job.  When a pro makes a swing change, they do it during their off season and hit thousands of balls until the new swing habits have replaced their old swing habits.  In competition they know that they can't have an old habit resurface.  It's funny, most amateurs think all they need to do to get better is take a lesson or watch a YouTube video and hit a couple of buckets of balls.  

I agree with everything you said. It is most definitely a balance and to get good you need to grind.

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