Why are after market shafts considered better than stock?

[Hook DeLoft]

I assume after market shafts are built to lower tolerances, but even if that is the case, I would think there are people for whom a particular stock shaft would be the perfect fit. 

[tony@CIC]

Great topic - I'd like to know the big differences. . 

[RickyBobby_PR]

They aren’t better for most and the mins between aftermarket and stock are becoming even more blurry these days.

Aldila rogue white and PX Hzrdus RDX blue as examples.

They are stock in some brands and in others are upcharge and in others not even offered.

In general the stock shafts are designed to fit a large portion of the golfing public. It’s why OEMs offer different flexes and different weights in the shafts that are considered stock aka no upcharge.

The aftermarket shafts are made with more premium materials which could be as simple as 1 piece of carbon fiber extra in the shaft. It could even be the paint job like the pvd or t1100 from PX.

I was reading a thread on wrx the other day and somebody switched from the Ventus blue with velocore shaft to the Hzrdus rdx blue.

in reality it’s what works best for the golfer.

 

[RickyBobby_PR]

2 minutes ago, tony@CIC said:

Great topic - I'd like to know the big differences. . 

The difference in every shaft is the type of materials used, how much of it, how it’s placed which all go into determine the weight, stiffness, torque and ei profile. Also the level of production. The shaft companies especially the ones that make a lot of the no upcharge offerings work won’t the OEMs to see what the new head designs are going to entail to include head weight, cg location, etc. they design shafts around this information. And the OEMs ask the shaft brands what their hot/new shafts are going to be and determine if they want it or not and how many which determines if it will be stock or upcharge or not offered at all.

Titlesit offers Ventus blue and black at upcharge but doesn’t offer red. The offer Hzrdus rdx black as stock but don’t offer blue at all

[cnosil]

Better in what way?   Not every aftermarket shaft is made to higher tolerances and as mentioned each manufacturer has a different lineup of shafts making some stock and some aftermarket.    Yes,  every golfer can probably find a well fit stock shaft;  the advantage of aftermarket is that you can fine tune the fit.   

As a most wanted tester I hit lots of clubs with lots of different shafts and  I am confident I could find a well fitting stock shaft from any OEM.  

[Middler]

49 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Better in what way?   Not every aftermarket shaft is made to higher tolerances and as mentioned each manufacturer has a different lineup of shafts making some stock and some aftermarket.    Yes,  every golfer can probably find a well fit stock shaft;  the advantage of aftermarket is that you can fine tune the fit.   

As a most wanted tester I hit lots of clubs with lots of different shafts and  I am confident I could find a well fitting stock shaft from any OEM.  

And that’s the salient point. These days most of us are well served getting the stock shaft that fits best. And that’s why I get tired of reading so many unqualified “go get fitted” replies to anyone and everyone who asks. The variation in how we deliver the club head from one swing to the next is far greater than a fine tuned shaft fit. Unless you’re a single digit HI player or physically very unusual, an all out Club Champion, TXG or premium fitting is a waste of money. A fine tune is worth a couple of strokes at most, far less than improving your swing with lessons and practice. YMMV

[aerospace_ray]

Most OEM's are not going to pay extra for a boutique premium golf shaft in a stock set offering. The primary business model is still off the rack. That drives a need for a range of flexes, type shafts that fit most golfers that walk in off the street to buy. Any premium upgrade is most likely passed on to the consumer through up charge and involves detailed fitting. There are companies like Ping that actually work to develop stock shafts that mate well to their club head designs. The general fittings at the retail level are designed to fit one into  a "range" that can cover most golfers (i.e. swing speed driven through shaft flex A/R/S) that walk in off street.

More in-depth fittings (i.e. AOA, spin rates in addition to swing speed, etc) provide the opportunity to dial in ones shaft needs a little further. But for retail it would not make sense to only have club heads with no shafts or carry extremely high priced sets of inventory so they carry a general set make up from a company that has already made a deal for a low price shaft that fits a general range.

Many feel the mid to high handicap golfers just need a quality club head with loft/lie that fits and a good quality shaft that the golfer can load in their swing. IMO most of today's off the shelf stock shafts suffice for mid-high handicappers that don't want detailed fittings.  Anything more is next level fitting and can be more expensive shaft offerings. Many OEM's have no charge shaft upgrades but even those are not really the more expensive boutique offerings. Many are close and/or a previous high end model that is in its 2nd/3rd cycle.

Years ago I figured out that you give me a seven iron there will most likely be at least +10  shaft models I could truthfully game but you give me a four iron and I definitely require a need for further fitting information to dial in the proper shaft that I can load and achieve trajectories/distances. I have changed my thinking on this subject after many years and for me it just comes down to what club set makeup I want and then I evaluate the clubs I may need a little extra help with (i.e shaft upgrade). For me its the 5 iron up to driver. Anything more and I really spending extra $$ I could save. So I don't buy new off the rack anymore unless its a previous years model and I plan to re shaft/tweak the clubs myself. 

[cnosil]

1 hour ago, Middler said:

And that’s the salient point. These days most of us are well served getting the stock shaft that fits best. And that’s why I get tired of reading so many unqualified “go get fitted” replies to anyone and everyone who asks. The variation in how we deliver the club head from one swing to the next is far greater than a fine tuned shaft fit. Unless you’re a single digit HI player or physically very unusual, an all out Club Champion, TXG or premium fitting is a waste of money. A fine tune is worth a couple of strokes at most, far less than improving your swing with lessons and practice. YMMV

I still believe that everyone should get fit.  I don't qualify where,  but the overwhelming majority of golfers cannot fit themselves.  Can the salesperson at GG, DSG,PGASS fit you? Perhaps but there isn't a guarantee.   People spend their money in a wide variety of ways and who are we to judge if a premium fitting is a waste of money.  I personally really enjoyed my fitting as I learned a lot about the process and how well my existing clubs fit me.  

 

[RickyBobby_PR]

11 minutes ago, cnosil said:

I still believe that everyone should get fit.  I don't qualify where,  but the overwhelming majority of golfers cannot fit themselves.  Can the salesperson at GG, DSG,PGASS fit you? Perhaps but there isn't a guarantee.   People spend their money in a wide variety of ways and who are we to judge if a premium fitting is a waste of money.  I personally really enjoyed my fitting as I learned a lot about the process and how well my existing clubs fit me.  

 

I have enjoyed all of my fittings even the tour van one at pgass. Learned different things in each one. People get fit for different reasons and quantify success differently. For me I know it’s not a guarantee I shoot lower scores but I know the chances of my bad shots not being as penalizing and equipment that will allow me the chance to put the best swing on a club. Still have to execute tho and that’s with or without fitted clubs

 

[Middler]

^^^ You’re both 7 handicaps, I acknowledged it makes sense for single digit players. Telling everyone a fitting is worth their time and money creates false expectations in many cases. And there are more bad fitters than good, and guess who is less able to know the difference? But we disagree on the details, no problem.

[dlow206]

14 minutes ago, Middler said:

^^^ You’re both 7 handicaps, I acknowledged it makes sense for single digit players. Telling everyone a fitting is worth their time and money creates false expectations in many cases. And there are more bad fitters than good, and guess who is less able to know the difference? But we disagree on the details, no problem.

I don't think that you need to be a low handicapper to benefit from a fitting. I used to push slice my SIM Max off the planet. With my TSi 2, I of course can still hit a push slice occasionally, but it was much more severe with the SIM Max. 

[null]

I’ll say it before and I’ll say it every time a thread like this pops up: there’s no such thing as a bad shaft, just a poor fitting shaft

[RickyBobby_PR]

51 minutes ago, Middler said:

^^^ You’re both 7 handicaps, I acknowledged it makes sense for single digit players. Telling everyone a fitting is worth their time and money creates false expectations in many cases. And there are more bad fitters than good, and guess who is less able to know the difference? But we disagree on the details, no problem.

I’ve been fit for clubs back in the days I was a 25 handicap usually by oem reps or the guy at my local range. They are beneficial to getting a club that works for your swing.

One of the first fittings I did the fitter told me the objective of a fitting is to minimize the big miss and make your shots more playable. 

[tony@CIC]

1 hour ago, Middler said:

^^^ You’re both 7 handicaps, I acknowledged it makes sense for single digit players. Telling everyone a fitting is worth their time and money creates false expectations in many cases. And there are more bad fitters than good, and guess who is less able to know the difference? But we disagree on the details, no problem.

Both my wife and I benefited from fittings. I'm a 19 and she's a 27. Her fitting had the biggest effect especially with the driver. Our choices were: go to the pro at our Club who would have put her into Ping's (and most likely ladies clubs) since that's all he carries, DSG (not really a fitting) and a 'real' fitter. The latter spent a lot of time working with her and her game and improved her golf confidence. She's now obsessed with improving her game and tells all of her friends about the fitting, the club's she bought and the impact to her game. Net cost after buying her clubs was $80. well worth the time and cost. 


Sent from my iPad using MyGolfSpy

[RollingGreens]

It’s intriguing to see the stock shaft options these days with Titleist offering the tensei raw blue and white both shafts labeled as more of a premium shaft

[RDel90]

Let me preface my response with a little background of myself. I have a degree in material science & engineering (how you choose the right material for an application and how to make a material that has the properties you need) and I work for a company that makes high performance synthetic fibers, some of which are in shafts you may be playing!

First understand at the end of the day, you are buying a club head (CH) which market price is usually around $500 for a driver. You're not going to buy a $500 driver without being able to swing it or test it, so the CH manufacturer has to give you a shaft with the head. There is no CH manufacturer that makes their own shafts and adding a shaft only then adds to the retail club cost. They understand not every golfer wants to drop $1000 on a single club so the need is for a shaft that doesn't add more to the cost of the head, and every golfer and swing is different so they also need a shaft that can cover a wide range of golfers (95 percentile) to maximize sales. So they form partnerships with shaft manufacturers to provide 'stock' shafts on their clubheads to get the best appealing performace. Remember the shaft is coming out of the CH manufacturer's pocket to get you to buy their $500 head, so what's the best way to keep costs down? Lower quality/materials.

A stock shaft that a CH manufacturer sells you with their CH, is not the same as the aftermarket. 'Quality' contains both tolerances (influenced by manfuacturing processes) and material selection itself. When looking at the fibers (carbon, aramid, or other) that go into making shafts, there are two key material properties in this application, Modulus and Tenacity (or simply tensile strength). Modulus is a measure of the stiffness of a material, that is the resistance to deform/bend, and tensile strength is the resistance to break. These properties are inversely related, that is a high strength material would bend much more (i.e. less stiff) before breaking. So for fibers we have standard modulus, intermediate modulus, and then the high modulus and strength (this is typically the aerospace grade fibers). Of couse the higher you go in these properties, the more expensive the material/fiber.

So an OEM/stock Project X HZRDUS sold by the CH manufacturer with their head may be made with standard modulus materials (remember the CH manufacturer is paying for this so they need to keep add on costs down so you buy their head) while the aftermarket Project X HZRDUS version sold directly by True Project X may be made with intermediate or high modulus fiber. Because the materials properties and design/number of layers are different, this influences flex profile, shaft kick point, torque (these are not material properties but design properties). The higher performance fibers will have tighter tolerances so ultimately the final performance of the shaft will have more spec consistency based on the design or it could take less layers in the design (ie lighter weight) to get to same required design properties.

A stock shaft may very well fit most recreational golfers as it was selected to fit such a wide retail audience with a wide range of misses, but as your swing gets more consistent and repeatable, you may want tighter and higher performance through aftermarket made with higher grade materials to help maintain that consistentcy and really reduce your misses.

Sorry for the long winded response but hope this helps!

Edited March 25, 2021 by RDel90

[null]

15 minutes ago, RDel90 said:

Let me preface my response with a little background of myself. I have a degree in material science & engineering (how you choose the right material for an application and how to make a material that has the properties you need) and I work for a company that makes high performance synthetic fibers, some of which are in shafts you may be playing!

First understand at the end of the day, you are buying a club head (CH) which market price is usually around $500 for a driver. You're not going to buy a $500 driver without being able to swing it or test it, so the CH manufacturer has to give you a shaft with the head. There is no CH manufacturer that makes their own shafts and adding a shaft only then adds to the retail club cost. They understand not every golfer wants to drop $1000 on a single club so the need is for a shaft that doesn't add more to the cost of the head, and every golfer and swing is different so they also need a shaft that can cover a wide range of golfers (95 percentile) to maximize sales. So they form partnerships with shaft manufacturers to provide 'stock' shafts on their clubheads to get the best appealing performace. Remember the shaft is coming out of the CH manufacturer's pocket to get you to buy their $500 head, so what's the best way to keep costs down? Lower quality/materials.

A stock shaft that a CH manufacturer sells you with their CH, is not the same as the aftermarket. 'Quality' contains both tolerances (influenced by manfuacturing processes) and material selection itself. When looking at the fibers (carbon, aramid, or other) that go into making shafts, there are two key material properties in this application, Modulus and Tenacity (or simply tensile strength). Modulus is a measure of the stiffness of a material, that is the resistance to deform/bend, and tensile strength is the resistance to break. These properties are inversely related, that is a high strength material would bend much more (i.e. less stiff) before breaking. So for fibers we have standard modulus, intermediate modulus, and then the high modulus and strength (this is typically the aerospace grade fibers). Of couse the higher you go in these properties, the more expensive the material/fiber.

So an OEM/stock Project X HZRDUS sold by the CH manufacturer with their head may be made with standard modulus materials (remember the CH manufacturer is paying for this so they need to keep add on costs down so you buy their head) while the aftermarket Project X HZRDUS version sold directly by True Project X may be made with intermediate or high modulus fiber. Because the materials properties and design/number of layers are different, this influences flex profile, shaft kick point, torque (these are not material properties but design properties). The higher performance fibers will have tighter tolerances so ultimately the final performance of the shaft will have more spec consistency based on the design or it could take less layers in the design (ie lighter weight) to get to same required design properties.

A stock shaft may very well fit most recreational golfers as it was selected to fit such a wide retail audience with a wide range of misses, but as your swing gets more consistent and repeatable, you may want tighter and higher performance through aftermarket made with higher grade materials to help maintain that consistentcy and really reduce your misses.

Sorry for the long winded response but hope this helps!

This is simply not true. There is no difference between the Project X Hzrus that comes off the rack from the OEM and a Project X Hzrus you buy in the aftermarket. The materials are exactly the same. 
 

your knowledge of the materials seems great, but how you are applying that knowledge is way off in terms of stock shafts vs aftermarket 

The made for, watered down shafts that were pretty standard in the early and mid 2000s are all but a thing of the past. Yes, there are still some exceptions with TMAg offering a ventus without velocore and Callaway having a few shafts that you can’t find in the aftermarket world, but that’s about it
 

 

[RickyBobby_PR]

11 minutes ago, RDel90 said:

So an OEM/stock Project X HZRDUS sold by the CH manufacturer with their head may be made with standard modulus materials (remember the CH manufacturer is paying for this so they need to keep add on costs down so you buy their head) while the aftermarket Project X HZRDUS version sold directly by True Project X may be made with intermediate or high modulus fiber. Because the materials properties and design/number of layers are different, this influences flex profile, shaft kick point, torque (these are not material properties but design properties). The higher performance fibers will have tighter tolerances so ultimately the final performance of the shaft will have more spec consistency based on the design or it could take less layers in the design (ie lighter weight) to get to same required design properties.

 

This just isn’t true. I have been to two different shaft manufacturers including PX.

The handcrafted PX hzrdus shafts were the exact same materials as the non handcrafted. The reason the handcrafted was aftermarket is because it was made by a small group of people in San Diego and they couldn’t mass produce them like the factory in Asia could. So you paid the premium price.  
 

Let’s take a look at current shafts from PX. The Hzrdus smoke rdx blue is offered by some brands as a no upcharge shaft but is offered at different upcharge price from others. It’s the exact same shaft that goes to all the club manufacturers that are offering it.

Adlidla rogue wanted to get their new white shaft in the public’s hands so they worked with Callaway to make it a stock offering while other brands had it as an upcharge.

Some shafts like the tensei have a pro line which is the premium offering and has different specs and materials than the non pro line. 

[ejgaudette]

2 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

This just isn’t true. I have been to two different shaft manufacturers including PX.

The handcrafted PX hzrdus shafts were the exact same materials as the non handcrafted. The reason the handcrafted was aftermarket is because it was made by a small group of people in San Diego and they couldn’t mass produce them like the factory in Asia could. So you paid the premium price.  
 

Let’s take a look at current shafts from PX. The Hzrdus smoke rdx blue is offered by some brands as a no upcharge shaft but is offered at different upcharge price from others. It’s the exact same shaft that goes to all the club manufacturers that are offering it.

Adlidla rogue wanted to get their new white shaft in the public’s hands so they worked with Callaway to make it a stock offering while other brands had it as an upcharge.

Some shafts like the tensei have a pro line which is the premium offering and has different specs and materials than the non pro line. 

Yes this is exactly what I have heard as well. They have even mentioned in some previous No Putts Givens that the actual manufacturing costs of even high end shafts is not as much as you think, obviously there is a lot of R&D that they want to cover with shaft prices, bust just like it does not cost 500 to produce the driver (including sourcing a shaft) it does not cost 300 to make the shaft. There are other costs associated in running the business and of course a mark up for profit, just like any other product.

[null]

5 minutes ago, ejgaudette said:

Yes this is exactly what I have heard as well. They have even mentioned in some previous No Putts Givens that the actual manufacturing costs of even high end shafts is not as much as you think, obviously there is a lot of R&D that they want to cover with shaft prices, bust just like it does not cost 500 to produce the driver (including sourcing a shaft) it does not cost 300 to make the shaft. There are other costs associated in running the business and of course a mark up for profit, just like any other product.

Yup and the club manufacturers buy in bulk and negotiate shaft costs with the shaft companies to get the shafts for their new club releases. 
 

The shaft companies sell them at reduced cost because it’s also a form of marketing to get your shaft as a stock option in one of the hot new releases

[RickyBobby_PR]

2 minutes ago, ejgaudette said:

Yes this is exactly what I have heard as well. They have even mentioned in some previous No Putts Givens that the actual manufacturing costs of even high end shafts is not as much as you think, obviously there is a lot of R&D that they want to cover with shaft prices, bust just like it does not cost 500 to produce the driver (including sourcing a shaft) it does not cost 300 to make the shaft. There are other costs associated in running the business and of course a mark up for profit, just like any other product.

Correct. Everyone has to get paid along the way. And from a shaft perspective there could be several layers of less expensive materials used in the shaft and 1 piece of more expensive fiber used that raises the cost, also could be the paint itself that raises the cost. The T1100 paint used by PX is very expensive. 
 

What many may not know is that the stiffer a shaft is the more brittle it becomes. So something with T1100 or some of the material like the 70T used in the Ventus velocore won’t have a lot of that material in it

[ejgaudette]

1 minute ago, jlukes said:

Yup and the club manufacturers buy in bulk and negotiate shaft costs with the shaft companies to get the shafts for their new club releases. 
 

The shaft companies sell the, at reduced cost because it’s also a form of marketing to get your shaft as a stock option in one of the hot new releases

Exactly I don't think anyone would be talking about the HZRDUS RDX Smoke Blue (quite a mouthful by the way) if it was not a stock offering across multiple OEMs which then means many Youtube reviewers that get clubs from the OEMs for testing mention the shaft and just like that the agreement has provided tons of marketing for the shaft.

[RickyBobby_PR]

Just now, ejgaudette said:

Exactly I don't think anyone would be talking about the HZRDUS RDX Smoke Blue (quite a mouthful by the way) if it was not a stock offering across multiple OEMs which then means many Youtube reviewers that get clubs from the OEMs for testing mention the shaft and just like that the agreement has provided tons of marketing for the shaft.

And the interesting part of that is if you go into a retail location while that shaft is stock offering you may not find it in any of the clubs on the rack. I was in my local pro shop the other day. They had the non velocore Ventus in most of the sim2/max heads and another shaft I didn’t pay attention to since I wanted to see if they had the rdx blue out if curiosity. So it’s till somewhat limited offering that needs to be requested but will come at no cost as long as it’s not the pvd finish

[ejgaudette]

2 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Correct. Everyone has to get paid along the way. And from a shaft perspective there could be several layers of less expensive materials used in the shaft and 1 piece of more expensive fiber used that raises the cost, also could be the paint itself that raises the cost. The T1100 paint used by PX is very expensive. 
 

What many may not know is that the stiffer a shaft is the more brittle it becomes. So something with T1100 or some of the material like the 70T used in the Ventus velocore won’t have a lot of that material in it

Great point about those high end stiff materials and brittleness, just like the Hexcel in the new PX stuff. The cost of each shaft is of course different and makes sense what Mitsubishi does with their shafts, at first they are an aftermarket only option, when Pro or AV Raw or now the 1K series come, then after some time then move those to a potential stock offering.

I noticed the limited actual in stock options at stores. When I got my last driver from a store they did not have the Aldila stock offering in any of the Cobra drivers, but of course that was an option if you order through them and such. More like there is stock and then there is on the rack offerings depending on where you are and what you shop thinks it will be able to actually sell.

[RickyBobby_PR]

Just now, ejgaudette said:

Great point about those high end stiff materials and brittleness, just like the Hexcel in the new PX stuff. The cost of each shaft is of course different and makes sense what Mitsubishi does with their shafts, at first they are an aftermarket only option, when Pro or AV Raw or now the 1K series come, then after some time then move those to a potential stock offering.

I noticed the limited actual in stock options at stores. When I got my last driver from a store they did not have the Aldila stock offering in any of the Cobra drivers, but of course that was an option if you order through them and such. More like there is stock and then there is on the rack offerings depending on where you are and what you shop thinks it will be able to actually sell.

Exactly and I think this may add to some of the confusion. I had the chance to talk with a couple of the big wigs at Cobra in 2015. They setup their design to have a shaft and head that fits the majority of the golfing public. Let’s say as an example it’s the ck orange (non pro). That becomes “stock” and what you will see in the retail shops. They will have a stock shaft that fits the high speed player, the mid swing speed and the slower speed swings. That may or may not be the same across the board but in different flexes and/or weights. Now they have these options for off the rack buyers.

They determine what other shafts they want to offer at no upcharge and what will be upcharge and how much that upcharge will be. This is where the fittings and dial in a shaft comes into play for someone that doesn’t fit the profile of the stock shaft. So these other shafts are where some of the confusion might come in since they are “premium” shafts that don’t cost the upcharge fee so they are stock but not quite retail stock per se

[ejgaudette]

1 minute ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Exactly and I think this may add to some of the confusion. I had the chance to talk with a couple of the big wigs at Cobra in 2015. They setup their design to have a shaft and head that fits the majority of the golfing public. Let’s say as an example it’s the ck orange (non pro). That becomes “stock” and what you will see in the retail shops. They will have a stock shaft that fits the high speed player, the mid swing speed and the slower speed swings. That may or may not be the same across the board but in different flexes and/or weights. Now they have these options for off the rack buyers.

They determine what other shafts they want to offer at no upcharge and what will be upcharge and how much that upcharge will be. This is where the fittings and dial in a shaft comes into play for someone that doesn’t fit the profile of the stock shaft. So these other shafts are where some of the confusion might come in since they are “premium” shafts that don’t cost the upcharge fee so they are stock but not quite retail stock per se

Exactly and what each OEM picks for true stock and no-upcharge options varies. So one might have that RDX Blue as stock, another as a no upcharge option, third it is an upcharge option, and forth does not offer it at all. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

8 minutes ago, ejgaudette said:

Exactly and what each OEM picks for true stock and no-upcharge options varies. So one might have that RDX Blue as stock, another as a no upcharge option, third it is an upcharge option, and forth does not offer it at all. 

Yup. The Ventus velocore is a good example. Most offer it and $250 upcharge but titleist has it for $345. Some of the brands offer all 3 colors but titleist only offers blue and black.

 

[RDel90]

3 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

This just isn’t true. I have been to two different shaft manufacturers including PX.

The handcrafted PX hzrdus shafts were the exact same materials as the non handcrafted. The reason the handcrafted was aftermarket is because it was made by a small group of people in San Diego and they couldn’t mass produce them like the factory in Asia could. So you paid the premium price.  
 

Let’s take a look at current shafts from PX. The Hzrdus smoke rdx blue is offered by some brands as a no upcharge shaft but is offered at different upcharge price from others. It’s the exact same shaft that goes to all the club manufacturers that are offering it.

Adlidla rogue wanted to get their new white shaft in the public’s hands so they worked with Callaway to make it a stock offering while other brands had it as an upcharge.

Some shafts like the tensei have a pro line which is the premium offering and has different specs and materials than the non pro line. 

Well I'm going not only by what materials we have contributed to the sporting goods industry but also discussions I have had with unbiased fitters and I do know the "small group of people in San Deigo." I just used PX as an example name, not saying they do or do not have differences in OEM vs Aftermarket. I'll agree this may not be 100% the case for all shafts, but this is what I have researched and also been told. Do I have a definitive list of bill of materials and specs for all shafts to 100% verify? No, and I bet you do not either.  I can 100% tell you that you (nor I) cannot tell the difference visually looking at standard modulus material vs a high modulus material, and in agreement with No Putts Given, I do know offshore mass manufacturing technologies (not just in composite sporting goods) have closed the gap in terms of achieving handcrafted/domestic quality and performance. Offshore labor costs are significantly cheaper which also helps. Why do you think most manufacture overseas?

I KNOW for a fact this is the case with hockey sticks. Pro models are considerably different carbon construction from their same retail counterpart. You can visually see the difference in the wall thickness if you cross section a graphite/carbon hockey stick. Our San Diego friends happen to be the same group that also designs those.

Quoting an article from Golf.com

"It’s important to note some manufacturers have shifted away from “made for” shafts and started putting premium aftermarket versions in their newest products. Others offer the shafts with an upcharge. The difficulty is knowing whether the shaft in your driver is a premium aftermarket version or one that has identical graphics but happens to be made with lower cost materials."

https://golf.com/gear/golf-accessories/stock-aftermarket-golf-shafts-fully-equipped/ 

[RDel90]

And I'm not trying to argue anything with anyone or saying my knowledge is 100% accurate and yours is not, just simply sharing what knowledge I have.

Edited March 25, 2021 by RDel90

[RickyBobby_PR]

5 minutes ago, RDel90 said:

And I'm not trying to argue anything with anyone or saying my knowledge is 100% accurate and yours is not, just simply sharing what knowledge I have.

My knowledge is first hand directly from PX while sitting in a conference room talking to their VP of design Don Brown. Don has also been on several golf forums to confirm the samething numerous times. 

Ive seen shafts made from start to finish including the spreadsheet they use to design the shaft with materials, the affect on EI profile, weight, flex, torque and so on. I’ve seen their entire facility. 

Ive been to UST Mamiya and met with their design person, their marketing VP and their process for making shafts which is basically the same as PX.