puttnfool Posted May 1, 2021 Share Posted May 1, 2021 2 hours ago, LICC said: A ball submerged in water is not physically able to be played. That's not a hard and fast rule. I've played a ball fully submerged before. It can be done. GolfSpy_BNG, cnosil, RickyBobby_PR and 1 other 4 WITB: Taylormade SIM2 Max 9° w/ UST ProForce V2 5F3 @ 45" Callaway Epic Speed 4wd w/ AccuFLEX Evolution Reg Dynacraft Genesis 3 hybrid w/ Steelfiber i95r Srixon ZX5 4-6 and ZX7 7-GW w/ UST Recoil 95 F4 soft stepped once Cleveland RTX Zipcore 54/10 w/ Recoil 95 F4 shaft Cleveland RTX-4 58/03 w/ Recoil 95 F4 9i shaft Odyssey SL EXO Marxman Pondering: Nothing at the moment In the locker: Too much to list Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puttnfool Posted May 1, 2021 Share Posted May 1, 2021 1 hour ago, LICC said: In the physical universe in which we live, a ball submerged in water cannot be played. You still cannot articulate a rational explanation why that should be penalized differently. You can say it as many times as you want, but, for those of us who have actually hit balls completely submerged, we know it's not true. GolfSpy_BNG, TR1PTIK, cnosil and 1 other 4 WITB: Taylormade SIM2 Max 9° w/ UST ProForce V2 5F3 @ 45" Callaway Epic Speed 4wd w/ AccuFLEX Evolution Reg Dynacraft Genesis 3 hybrid w/ Steelfiber i95r Srixon ZX5 4-6 and ZX7 7-GW w/ UST Recoil 95 F4 soft stepped once Cleveland RTX Zipcore 54/10 w/ Recoil 95 F4 shaft Cleveland RTX-4 58/03 w/ Recoil 95 F4 9i shaft Odyssey SL EXO Marxman Pondering: Nothing at the moment In the locker: Too much to list Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LICC Posted May 1, 2021 Author Share Posted May 1, 2021 3 hours ago, seeking70's said: You can say it as many times as you want, but, for those of us who have actually hit balls completely submerged, we know it's not true. Nope. You cannot physically make a golf strike on a ball submerged in water. TR1PTIK 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnosil Posted May 1, 2021 Share Posted May 1, 2021 2 minutes ago, LICC said: Nope. You cannot physically make a golf strike on a ball submerged in water. https://thegolfnewsnet.com/golfnewsnetteam/2015/02/26/video-sergio-garcia-hit-submerged-ball-honda-classic-9926/ TR1PTIK, SkilledByDesign, RickyBobby_PR and 2 others 2 1 2 Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: TS3 15* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: TM-180 Testing: Backups: Milled Collection RSX 2, mFGP2, Futura 5W Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GolfSpy_BNG Posted May 1, 2021 Share Posted May 1, 2021 14 minutes ago, cnosil said: https://thegolfnewsnet.com/golfnewsnetteam/2015/02/26/video-sergio-garcia-hit-submerged-ball-honda-classic-9926/ My first thought of the reaction to this video proof! SkilledByDesign, TR1PTIK, RickyBobby_PR and 3 others 1 1 4 What is in my Sun Mountain C-130 bag or Jones MyGolfSpy bag Driver: Dark speed LS 8* set to -1.5* with an Attas Daaas 4x shaft @ 45” Fairway: F85 3 wood with a XPhplexx Agera X @ 42.5” F85 5 wood with a UST Elements Chrome 7F5 @ 41.5" Driving Iron: Rapture 2-Iron Irons: SMS Pros 4-PW with Steelfiber I95s Wedges: SMS 50* T grind with Steelfiber i110s Glide 4.0 46* zz wedge shaft Glide 4.0 E grind 54* zz wedge shaft Putters: Mezz.1 34” 69* lie EV5.1 black 33.5” 69* lie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LICC Posted May 1, 2021 Author Share Posted May 1, 2021 23 minutes ago, cnosil said: https://thegolfnewsnet.com/golfnewsnetteam/2015/02/26/video-sergio-garcia-hit-submerged-ball-honda-classic-9926/ The ball went 90 degrees left. Thanks for proving my point. puttnfool 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip Strokes Posted May 1, 2021 Share Posted May 1, 2021 2 minutes ago, LICC said: The ball went 90 degrees left. Thanks for proving my point. he 100% disproved your point. RickyBobby_PR and puttnfool 2 SIM2 8º | KuroKage XD 70TX SIM 3W 14º | Fujikura Atmos Black Tour Spec 9TX SIM2 5W 18º | Fujikura Ventus Black 10X U500 2i | Fujikura Ventus HB Black 10TX T100 4-PW | Dynamic Gold X7 SM6 52* SM8 56* SM8 60* | Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100 DW | BGT Stability Tour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GolfSpy_BNG Posted May 1, 2021 Share Posted May 1, 2021 9 minutes ago, Chip Strokes said: he 100% disproved your point. Who woulda guessed? RickyBobby_PR 1 What is in my Sun Mountain C-130 bag or Jones MyGolfSpy bag Driver: Dark speed LS 8* set to -1.5* with an Attas Daaas 4x shaft @ 45” Fairway: F85 3 wood with a XPhplexx Agera X @ 42.5” F85 5 wood with a UST Elements Chrome 7F5 @ 41.5" Driving Iron: Rapture 2-Iron Irons: SMS Pros 4-PW with Steelfiber I95s Wedges: SMS 50* T grind with Steelfiber i110s Glide 4.0 46* zz wedge shaft Glide 4.0 E grind 54* zz wedge shaft Putters: Mezz.1 34” 69* lie EV5.1 black 33.5” 69* lie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnosil Posted May 1, 2021 Share Posted May 1, 2021 2 hours ago, LICC said: Nope. You cannot physically make a golf strike on a ball submerged in water. 2 hours ago, LICC said: The ball went 90 degrees left. Thanks for proving my point. You state " you cannot physically make a golf strike"; so I show you proof that you can hit a submerged ball and then you disagree with video evidence because you didn't like the results of the shot. How about highlight number 7 in the video below Jason Dufner 2016 at Doral or are you going to say he didn't hit it close enough to the hole. TR1PTIK, GolfSpy_BNG, puttnfool and 1 other 1 3 Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: TS3 15* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: TM-180 Testing: Backups: Milled Collection RSX 2, mFGP2, Futura 5W Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puttnfool Posted May 1, 2021 Share Posted May 1, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, LICC said: Nope. You cannot physically make a golf strike on a ball submerged in water. Why do you think that? EDIT: Nevermind, I see it has been proven to you, yet again, and you refuse to acknowledge that something is possible that you claim is impossible. Edited May 1, 2021 by seeking70's GolfSpy_BNG, cnosil, RickyBobby_PR and 1 other 4 WITB: Taylormade SIM2 Max 9° w/ UST ProForce V2 5F3 @ 45" Callaway Epic Speed 4wd w/ AccuFLEX Evolution Reg Dynacraft Genesis 3 hybrid w/ Steelfiber i95r Srixon ZX5 4-6 and ZX7 7-GW w/ UST Recoil 95 F4 soft stepped once Cleveland RTX Zipcore 54/10 w/ Recoil 95 F4 shaft Cleveland RTX-4 58/03 w/ Recoil 95 F4 9i shaft Odyssey SL EXO Marxman Pondering: Nothing at the moment In the locker: Too much to list Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LICC Posted May 1, 2021 Author Share Posted May 1, 2021 45 minutes ago, cnosil said: You state " you cannot physically make a golf strike"; so I show you proof that you can hit a submerged ball and then you disagree with video evidence because you didn't like the results of the shot. How about highlight number 7 in the video below Jason Dufner 2016 at Doral or are you going to say he didn't hit it close enough to the hole. He did not put a golf stroke on the ball. He smacked it 90 degrees left. If this is your best justification for the inconsistent penalty application, then your argument is very weak. TR1PTIK 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GolfSpy_BNG Posted May 1, 2021 Share Posted May 1, 2021 16 minutes ago, LICC said: He did not put a golf stroke on the ball. He smacked it 90 degrees left. If this is your best justification for the inconsistent penalty application, then your argument is very weak. The argument has merit because Sergio took a golf swing at a ball fully submerged in water. If he was OB he wouldn’t have been allowed to do so THEREFORE a water hazard and ob are different and are penalized differently! TR1PTIK, cnosil, puttnfool and 1 other 3 1 What is in my Sun Mountain C-130 bag or Jones MyGolfSpy bag Driver: Dark speed LS 8* set to -1.5* with an Attas Daaas 4x shaft @ 45” Fairway: F85 3 wood with a XPhplexx Agera X @ 42.5” F85 5 wood with a UST Elements Chrome 7F5 @ 41.5" Driving Iron: Rapture 2-Iron Irons: SMS Pros 4-PW with Steelfiber I95s Wedges: SMS 50* T grind with Steelfiber i110s Glide 4.0 46* zz wedge shaft Glide 4.0 E grind 54* zz wedge shaft Putters: Mezz.1 34” 69* lie EV5.1 black 33.5” 69* lie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnosil Posted May 1, 2021 Share Posted May 1, 2021 17 minutes ago, LICC said: He did not put a golf stroke on the ball. He smacked it 90 degrees left. If this is your best justification for the inconsistent penalty application, then your argument is very weak. Has nothing to do with hitting into a penalty area vs hitting a ball out of bounds. You keep bringing up water and not being able to hit out of water. I continue to maintain that hitting out of bounds is different than hitting into a penalty area. They are different and they can and do have different penalties. TR1PTIK, RickyBobby_PR, DaveP043 and 2 others 4 1 Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: TS3 15* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: TM-180 Testing: Backups: Milled Collection RSX 2, mFGP2, Futura 5W Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlH Posted May 2, 2021 Share Posted May 2, 2021 20 minutes ago, LICC said: He did not put a golf stroke on the ball. He smacked it 90 degrees left. If this is your best justification for the inconsistent penalty application, then your argument is very weak. In accordance with the Rules of Golf, a stroke is defined as the forward movement of the club to strike the ball. Therefore, he did make a stroke. 90 degrees left is the result of his stroke. cnosil, TR1PTIK, RickyBobby_PR and 2 others 5 Driver: Rogue ST Max (10.5* set at -1 and neutral) -- Mitsubishi Tensai Blue 55g R shaft Fairway: Rogue ST Max 3 wood (16.5*) and Heaven Wood (20*)-- Tensai Blue 55g R shaft Hybrids: Rogue ST Max 5H (23*)--Tensai Blue 55g R shaft Irons: Apex CF19 6-9, PW, AW -- KBS Tour Graphite TGI 70 shafts R +1/2 inch 3* upright Wedges: Edison 53* and 57* KBS PGI 80 Graphite +1/2 inch 2* upright Putter: L.A.B. DF 2.1 -- BGT Stability shaft Ball: Maxfli TourX...Golf Bag: Pioneer...Shoes: Hyperflex... Glove: Red Rooster Feather My Photography can be seen at Smugmug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GolfSpy_BNG Posted May 2, 2021 Share Posted May 2, 2021 24 minutes ago, CarlH said: In accordance with the Rules of Golf, a stroke is defined as the forward movement of the club to strike the ball. Therefore, he did make a stroke. 90 degrees left is the result of his stroke. As it turns out you can also take a swing at the ball, submerged or on a tee, whiff and it counts as a golf stroke! RickyBobby_PR, TR1PTIK and puttnfool 3 What is in my Sun Mountain C-130 bag or Jones MyGolfSpy bag Driver: Dark speed LS 8* set to -1.5* with an Attas Daaas 4x shaft @ 45” Fairway: F85 3 wood with a XPhplexx Agera X @ 42.5” F85 5 wood with a UST Elements Chrome 7F5 @ 41.5" Driving Iron: Rapture 2-Iron Irons: SMS Pros 4-PW with Steelfiber I95s Wedges: SMS 50* T grind with Steelfiber i110s Glide 4.0 46* zz wedge shaft Glide 4.0 E grind 54* zz wedge shaft Putters: Mezz.1 34” 69* lie EV5.1 black 33.5” 69* lie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlH Posted May 2, 2021 Share Posted May 2, 2021 12 minutes ago, blackngold_blood said: As it turns out you can also take a swing at the ball, submerged or on a tee, whiff and it counts as a golf stroke! Yes, per the definitions of the rule book. GolfSpy_BNG 1 Driver: Rogue ST Max (10.5* set at -1 and neutral) -- Mitsubishi Tensai Blue 55g R shaft Fairway: Rogue ST Max 3 wood (16.5*) and Heaven Wood (20*)-- Tensai Blue 55g R shaft Hybrids: Rogue ST Max 5H (23*)--Tensai Blue 55g R shaft Irons: Apex CF19 6-9, PW, AW -- KBS Tour Graphite TGI 70 shafts R +1/2 inch 3* upright Wedges: Edison 53* and 57* KBS PGI 80 Graphite +1/2 inch 2* upright Putter: L.A.B. DF 2.1 -- BGT Stability shaft Ball: Maxfli TourX...Golf Bag: Pioneer...Shoes: Hyperflex... Glove: Red Rooster Feather My Photography can be seen at Smugmug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goaliedad30 Posted May 2, 2021 Share Posted May 2, 2021 @LICC, so why not publish your own rule book? You clearly disagree with the one used by the current ruling bodies. Publish it, promote it, and suggest that people play using it. You could even create a website where people playing LICCGolf could post scores for reference. I officiate ice hockey, and many leagues have their own customized rules .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip Strokes Posted May 2, 2021 Share Posted May 2, 2021 10 hours ago, goaliedad30 said: @LICC, so why not publish your own rule book? You clearly disagree with the one used by the current ruling bodies. Publish it, promote it, and suggest that people play using it. You could even create a website where people playing LICCGolf could post scores for reference. I officiate ice hockey, and many leagues have their own customized rules .... because then in order to complain he’d have to admit he was wrong. TR1PTIK, RickyBobby_PR, GolfSpy_BNG and 1 other 3 1 SIM2 8º | KuroKage XD 70TX SIM 3W 14º | Fujikura Atmos Black Tour Spec 9TX SIM2 5W 18º | Fujikura Ventus Black 10X U500 2i | Fujikura Ventus HB Black 10TX T100 4-PW | Dynamic Gold X7 SM6 52* SM8 56* SM8 60* | Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100 DW | BGT Stability Tour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuka44 Posted May 2, 2021 Share Posted May 2, 2021 LICC I would point out what I stated earlier in this thread, and point to a few of the comments just before this one. Anyone who suggests that the rules for equipment, course standards, hole size or rules of play or anything with the game of golf, can be made "better", to be "adjusted", to be "altered" for "recreational golf" perhaps for the simplest of reasons, to make it more FUN, and "easier" and perhaps more "fair", is met with "make your own rule book" I agree with you completely on the OB rule. Arguments like "its hard that's why we like it", .."its not the same you CAN technically hit a ball at the bottom of 10 feet of water", and "make your own rule book", kind of sounds like the dismissive, somewhat condescending attitude toward those of us who merely suggest that perhaps the rulebook, and the game is perhaps not perfect as it is. LICC 1 Driver: Cobra King Speedzone Irons: Mavrik 4-GW Wedges: CG-14 56 & RTX 52 Putter: Scottsdale Wolverine Woods: Gigagolf 3W, 2H, 3H Ball: Srixon Z-Star XV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkilledByDesign Posted May 2, 2021 Share Posted May 2, 2021 33 minutes ago, stuka44 said: LICC I would point out what I stated earlier in this thread, and point to a few of the comments just before this one. Anyone who suggests that the rules for equipment, course standards, hole size or rules of play or anything with the game of golf, can be made "better", to be "adjusted", to be "altered" for "recreational golf" perhaps for the simplest of reasons, to make it more FUN, and "easier" and perhaps more "fair", is met with "make your own rule book" I agree with you completely on the OB rule. Arguments like "its hard that's why we like it", .."its not the same you CAN technically hit a ball at the bottom of 10 feet of water", and "make your own rule book", kind of sounds like the dismissive, somewhat condescending attitude toward those of us who merely suggest that perhaps the rulebook, and the game is perhaps not perfect as it is. I guess my main point that I would want to bring up is: Do you feel you should be punished more for hitting a ball out of the bounds of the course compared to hitting within the design of the course, but to a place where it cannot be played? Personally I feel that it is fair to be punished more, and it seems like the majority agree with that. GolfSpy_BNG, puttnfool, DaveP043 and 3 others 5 1 Obsessed with the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shapotomous Posted May 2, 2021 Share Posted May 2, 2021 If I owned property adjacent to a course I'd feel better about the dents in my siding if the perpetrator was penalized stroke & distance rather than just stroke. The severe penalty may also discourage somebody from trying to cut the corner over my property that happens to be near the turn of a dogleg. But I also realize that 98% of those playing aren't playing by the rules and are probably dropping where they think they crossed the OB line (probably closer to the hole than they should) and therefore aren't encouraged to stay away from my property line. So I will continue to not live adjacent to a course so I don't have to wear a hard hat while cutting the grass! Unfair vs fair has been kicked around for 6 pages...I think if you know the rule / penalty before you hit the shot then it isn't unfair. You assessed the risk / reward standing behind the ball with the club in your hand and reap the results of the shot. IMO it's only unfair if the rule is changed after you hit your shot. downlowkey, cnosil, DaveP043 and 4 others 7 Modern Bag: G410 LST 10.5*, Hzrdus Smoke RDX 6.5 Flex; 915F 3w, Diamana S+ 70 S flex; Snake Eyes 18* 2h, 23* 4h & 27* 5h; JPX 900 Forged 6 - PW, PX LZ 6.0; Edison 2.0 49*, 53*, 57* KBS Tour 120 S; Heppler Fetch; Ball - MTB-X; Bag - Jones MyGolfSpy Edition! Shot Scope H4, MG600 Rangefinder Classic Bag: Driver - Persimmon; 3w - Speed Slot; 5w - Tour Block; 3 - pw - Dynapower; sw - Ram Tom Watson; putter - bullseye standard or flange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GolfSpy_BNG Posted May 2, 2021 Share Posted May 2, 2021 30 minutes ago, Shapotomous said: Unfair vs fair has been kicked around for 6 pages...I think if you know the rule / penalty before you hit the shot then it isn't unfair. You assessed the risk / reward standing behind the ball with the club in your hand and reap the results of the shot. IMO it's only unfair if the rule is changed after you hit your shot. The fair vs unfair argument is pointless. As you said it is only unfair if it is changed after you hit your shot or are playing by different rules than whoever you are competing with. I say this again but if you are only playing for fun, play however you want by whatever rules you want within the confines of respecting the course and other golfers. If playing for a handicap, play by the rules for that handicap system and if playing tournament golf, play by the rules adopted by the tournament. Remember you chose to play for THIER handicap or in THIER tournament. Life is too short to be negative and complaining all the time. So enjoy whatever time you have left. RickyBobby_PR, cnosil and TR1PTIK 3 What is in my Sun Mountain C-130 bag or Jones MyGolfSpy bag Driver: Dark speed LS 8* set to -1.5* with an Attas Daaas 4x shaft @ 45” Fairway: F85 3 wood with a XPhplexx Agera X @ 42.5” F85 5 wood with a UST Elements Chrome 7F5 @ 41.5" Driving Iron: Rapture 2-Iron Irons: SMS Pros 4-PW with Steelfiber I95s Wedges: SMS 50* T grind with Steelfiber i110s Glide 4.0 46* zz wedge shaft Glide 4.0 E grind 54* zz wedge shaft Putters: Mezz.1 34” 69* lie EV5.1 black 33.5” 69* lie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuka44 Posted May 2, 2021 Share Posted May 2, 2021 (edited) I look at all of these rule discussions(and respect the traditionalist), and other aspects about golf and what I hope, is that all the "tradition" of golf is enough to keep presently 20, and 30, and 40 year old people out there interested enough to stick with it. I believe that fun, fair, and easy are going to be critical to get and keep enough young people involved to replace all the baby boomers(those presently around 62-75 years old) who are currently playing a VAST MAJORITY of rounds of golf played in a year. Because in 2020 with all the people who played golf for the first time, and played a round on a course, and didn't just go to Top Golf or a driving range 169 courses, mostly sub $40 public courses closed. I think making the game easier, more logical, and yes even just more FUN is going to be very important in the long run. Edited May 2, 2021 by stuka44 add line Driver: Cobra King Speedzone Irons: Mavrik 4-GW Wedges: CG-14 56 & RTX 52 Putter: Scottsdale Wolverine Woods: Gigagolf 3W, 2H, 3H Ball: Srixon Z-Star XV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puttnfool Posted May 2, 2021 Share Posted May 2, 2021 2 hours ago, stuka44 said: LICC I would point out what I stated earlier in this thread, and point to a few of the comments just before this one. Anyone who suggests that the rules for equipment, course standards, hole size or rules of play or anything with the game of golf, can be made "better", to be "adjusted", to be "altered" for "recreational golf" perhaps for the simplest of reasons, to make it more FUN, and "easier" and perhaps more "fair", is met with "make your own rule book" I agree with you completely on the OB rule. Arguments like "its hard that's why we like it", .."its not the same you CAN technically hit a ball at the bottom of 10 feet of water", and "make your own rule book", kind of sounds like the dismissive, somewhat condescending attitude toward those of us who merely suggest that perhaps the rulebook, and the game is perhaps not perfect as it is. Who said anything about 10' of water? RickyBobby_PR 1 WITB: Taylormade SIM2 Max 9° w/ UST ProForce V2 5F3 @ 45" Callaway Epic Speed 4wd w/ AccuFLEX Evolution Reg Dynacraft Genesis 3 hybrid w/ Steelfiber i95r Srixon ZX5 4-6 and ZX7 7-GW w/ UST Recoil 95 F4 soft stepped once Cleveland RTX Zipcore 54/10 w/ Recoil 95 F4 shaft Cleveland RTX-4 58/03 w/ Recoil 95 F4 9i shaft Odyssey SL EXO Marxman Pondering: Nothing at the moment In the locker: Too much to list Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlH Posted May 2, 2021 Share Posted May 2, 2021 When it comes to rules, any rule of any sport, "fair" boils down to fair to everyone playing. In order for a rule to be fair, it must be applied equally to everyone, so as not to give any one player an advantage or disadvantage. In the case of an OB, stroke and distance is fair because not every ball that goes OB goes into someone's lawn. OB can be along a wooded area, an open field, or the side of a mountain. Sometimes you can find the ball, often you cannot. If you were allowed to drop the ball where you "think" it went in, you would be probably giving yourself an unfair advantage over the field. By making it stroke and distance for OB and/or lost ball, the rule is applied equally to everyone, no exceptions. Therefore, it is a fair rule. Unless you can devise a rule that applies to every case and situation, then you have no valid argument. This is my opinion of the rule. You may or may not agree. It doesn't matter one way or the other. Competitive golf requires stroke and distance and, until that rule changes by the governing body, that's the rule we follow. TR1PTIK, GolfSpy_BNG, cnosil and 2 others 5 Driver: Rogue ST Max (10.5* set at -1 and neutral) -- Mitsubishi Tensai Blue 55g R shaft Fairway: Rogue ST Max 3 wood (16.5*) and Heaven Wood (20*)-- Tensai Blue 55g R shaft Hybrids: Rogue ST Max 5H (23*)--Tensai Blue 55g R shaft Irons: Apex CF19 6-9, PW, AW -- KBS Tour Graphite TGI 70 shafts R +1/2 inch 3* upright Wedges: Edison 53* and 57* KBS PGI 80 Graphite +1/2 inch 2* upright Putter: L.A.B. DF 2.1 -- BGT Stability shaft Ball: Maxfli TourX...Golf Bag: Pioneer...Shoes: Hyperflex... Glove: Red Rooster Feather My Photography can be seen at Smugmug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyBobby_PR Posted May 2, 2021 Share Posted May 2, 2021 18 minutes ago, stuka44 said: I look at all of these rule discussions(and respect the traditionalist), and other aspects about golf and what I hope, is that all the "tradition" of golf is enough to keep presently 20, and 30, and 40 year old people out there interested enough to stick with it. I believe that fun, fair, and easy are going to be critical to get and keep enough young people involved to replace all the baby boomers(those presently around 62-75 years old) who are currently playing a VAST MAJORITY of rounds of golf played in a year. Because in 2020 with all the people who played golf for the first time, and played a round on a course, and didn't just go to Top Golf or a driving range 169 courses, mostly sub $40 public courses closed. I think making the game easier, more logical, and yes even just more FUN is going to be very important in the long run. The people who played for fun last year for the first time are going to keep playing for fun this year and every year they play. They may end up enjoying the game and the challenge and decide to play by rules later on and to get a handicap. When I started playing years ago it was another activity I did and wasn’t serious. I played by the rules because the large group I played with had competitions within the group. Not once did I think that the rules were stuffy or too traditional. They were the rules and I had to play by them. Just like in every organized sport I ever played from high school into adult hood. The arguments being made in here about the rules aren’t based on “tradition” and “that’s because it’s always been that way” GolfSpy_BNG, cnosil and TR1PTIK 3 Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4 Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120 Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60 Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1 Ball: Titleist Prov1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlH Posted May 2, 2021 Share Posted May 2, 2021 48 minutes ago, stuka44 said: Because in 2020 with all the people who played golf for the first time, and played a round on a course, and didn't just go to Top Golf or a driving range 169 courses, mostly sub $40 public courses closed. I think making the game easier, more logical, and yes even just more FUN is going to be very important in the long run. What makes the current crop of new players to the game any different from past "new" players that came to the game? The baby boomers that you refer to (yes, us old guys now) weren't always old yanno. Many started playing the game in their 20's, 30's, and 40's just as the ones you're worried about staying interested in the game. I don't understand why the new generation of players is any different than past generations. edit: at least the new generations didn't have to learn on persimmon woods, balata balls, and unforgiving irons RickyBobby_PR, puttnfool, cnosil and 1 other 4 Driver: Rogue ST Max (10.5* set at -1 and neutral) -- Mitsubishi Tensai Blue 55g R shaft Fairway: Rogue ST Max 3 wood (16.5*) and Heaven Wood (20*)-- Tensai Blue 55g R shaft Hybrids: Rogue ST Max 5H (23*)--Tensai Blue 55g R shaft Irons: Apex CF19 6-9, PW, AW -- KBS Tour Graphite TGI 70 shafts R +1/2 inch 3* upright Wedges: Edison 53* and 57* KBS PGI 80 Graphite +1/2 inch 2* upright Putter: L.A.B. DF 2.1 -- BGT Stability shaft Ball: Maxfli TourX...Golf Bag: Pioneer...Shoes: Hyperflex... Glove: Red Rooster Feather My Photography can be seen at Smugmug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuka44 Posted May 2, 2021 Share Posted May 2, 2021 1 hour ago, CarlH said: What makes the current crop of new players to the game any different from past "new" players that came to the game? The baby boomers that you refer to (yes, us old guys now) weren't always old yanno. Many started playing the game in their 20's, 30's, and 40's just as the ones you're worried about staying interested in the game. I don't understand why the new generation of players is any different than past generations. edit: at least the new generations didn't have to learn on persimmon woods, balata balls, and unforgiving irons CarlH I hope you are right. We (I'm 55) were raised on the outdoors, and riding bikes over to other kids houses, and playing baseball, basketball, and football depending on what the sports season was, in someone's back yard or local lot. We kept score and were told YOU LOST, at 8, 9, and 10 years old. The generation to replace all those rounds of golf, are being raised on instant gratification, everything should be given to you, and everyone gets a trophy. I guess I just don't have the same faith that you do that they will spend, the long hours to learn the game to a point they want to continue playing, pay the expensive greens fees, as more low cost public courses close, and are going to be willing to take 4.5 hours out of one of their days off. The industry has had seven straight years with more than 2 million beginners. By comparison, there were 1.5 million beginners in 2011. The key for future growth, however, is retention. cnosil 1 Driver: Cobra King Speedzone Irons: Mavrik 4-GW Wedges: CG-14 56 & RTX 52 Putter: Scottsdale Wolverine Woods: Gigagolf 3W, 2H, 3H Ball: Srixon Z-Star XV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puttnfool Posted May 2, 2021 Share Posted May 2, 2021 4 hours ago, stuka44 said: We kept score and were told YOU LOST, at 8, 9, and 10 years old. The generation to replace all those rounds of golf, are being raised on instant gratification, everything should be given to you, and everyone gets a trophy. This is true. This is definitely the instant gratification generation. I don't think any of them know what it means to work hard and struggle through adversity. TR1PTIK 1 WITB: Taylormade SIM2 Max 9° w/ UST ProForce V2 5F3 @ 45" Callaway Epic Speed 4wd w/ AccuFLEX Evolution Reg Dynacraft Genesis 3 hybrid w/ Steelfiber i95r Srixon ZX5 4-6 and ZX7 7-GW w/ UST Recoil 95 F4 soft stepped once Cleveland RTX Zipcore 54/10 w/ Recoil 95 F4 shaft Cleveland RTX-4 58/03 w/ Recoil 95 F4 9i shaft Odyssey SL EXO Marxman Pondering: Nothing at the moment In the locker: Too much to list Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnosil Posted May 2, 2021 Share Posted May 2, 2021 7 hours ago, stuka44 said: I look at all of these rule discussions(and respect the traditionalist), and other aspects about golf and what I hope, is that all the "tradition" of golf is enough to keep presently 20, and 30, and 40 year old people out there interested enough to stick with it. I believe that fun, fair, and easy are going to be critical to get and keep enough young people involved to replace all the baby boomers(those presently around 62-75 years old) who are currently playing a VAST MAJORITY of rounds of golf played in a year. Because in 2020 with all the people who played golf for the first time, and played a round on a course, and didn't just go to Top Golf or a driving range 169 courses, mostly sub $40 public courses closed. I think making the game easier, more logical, and yes even just more FUN is going to be very important in the long run. It is funny that you bring up "tradition" Most of the people responding to this thread and the others started by the OP are probably in favor of doing things to advance the game and improve the rules if necessary. Most of the people on this site are pro armlock putting; however, the OP believe that we need to respect the traditional way and that it isn't a proper swing. We have stated that hitting the ball far is good and that equipment shouldn't be rolled back to a prior era; but the OP wants courses to be played like they were in the past. Sure, lets make the game better, and the ruling committees have for shots that go OB. With a local rule you can drop in the fairway, add 2 strokes, and play on. Golf has penalties that are 1 stroke or 2 strokes; OB happens to be 2 strokes because it is functionally different that a penalty area. I am all for local courses doing things to get people involved in the game; shorter courses for faster rounds, discounts for students, bigger holes to make the game easier; or even have people make up their own rules as long as the keep up a pace of play. I am even fine with competitions with those unofficial rules. DaveP043, TR1PTIK, GolfSpy_BNG and 2 others 5 Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: TS3 15* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: TM-180 Testing: Backups: Milled Collection RSX 2, mFGP2, Futura 5W Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts