Jump to content
TESTERS WANTED! ×

Club Fitting Question - Sim vs. Sim Max


Recommended Posts

Hi all -

I have a general fitting question for everyone out there.  I was fit into a Sim Max, but I have a driver swing speed of 115-117 mph.  I wasn’t fit into this because of the forgiveness level, it was because I wasn’t generating enough spin.  I have a hard time believing that at my speed (not a brag) that I’d have trouble generating spin.  I feel like I’m leaving some distance on the table with the Sim Max as it’s the higher spinning option.  
 

As I get onto the course now, I feel like I’m spinning this driver too much and wish I would’ve gone with the Sim, but I also don’t wanna get too low of spin.  
 

is there something in my delivery of the golf club that would cause me to spin it too little? I don’t swing down on the driver and usually the more you swing down, the more the spin is. 
 

Any discussion is welcome, I just figured I’d ask a few questions here for everyone.

Link to comment

This might help:

https://blog.trackmangolf.com/spin-loft/

To over-generalize it, like the article says, you can subtract the AoA from delivered loft to get spin loft, but club path and face make it not so black and white. You could be swinging up and deliver too-little loft resulting in low spin, or you could be swinging too far from the inside (right path) and a closed face (left face) -- think about the delivery for a duck hook and how little backspin those shots have. The easiest way to dissect your personal "issue" is to look at the numbers during your fitting.

FWIW, DJ was playing a Max before (not sure if he still does) so don't worry too much about it. The actual difference is probably very small between Sim and Max. You're likely to find a larger difference switching to a different OEM.

 

Driver: :callaway-small: Rogue ST Max LS Tensei AV Blue S

3w/5w: :titelist-small: TSi2 Tensei AV Raw Blue S

4h: :mizuno-small: CLK 22* Hybrid Tensei CK Pro Blue 80HY S

Irons 5-PW: :mizuno-small: 223 Steelfiber PR 95 S

Wedges: :cleveland-small: RTX Zipcore Tour Rack 50, 54, 58 Steelfiber PR 105

Putter: LAB Link.1

Ball: :srixon-small: Z-Star Diamond

Link to comment

Without seeing your swing it would be hard to say why you don’t generate spin

DJ plays the sim2 max at times and other pros also play the sim2 max. They’ve also played sim max, m6, m4, m2 over the course of the M family like and now sim. High swing speed doesn’t mean less forgiving head is better. There are tour pros using titleist tsi2 and not the tsi3.

Do you have the launch monitor numbers for both drivers?

When you watch your ball on the course does the ball get to the apex and then climb higher or just fall out of the sky?

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

Link to comment
12 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Without seeing your swing it would be hard to say why you don’t generate spin

DJ plays the sim2 max at times and other pros also play the sim2 max. They’ve also played sim max, m6, m4, m2 over the course of the M family like and now sim. High swing speed doesn’t mean less forgiving head is better. There are tour pros using titleist tsi2 and not the tsi3.

Do you have the launch monitor numbers for both drivers?

When you watch your ball on the course does the ball get to the apex and then climb higher or just fall out of the sky?

Don’t have the numbers on me.  I will say, my good drives are always high on the face - much straighter, less spin, and kinda just fall out of the sky.  I feel like when I hit it in the center, it kind of rises when it gets to the apex. 

Link to comment
Just now, BRCGolf said:

Don’t have the numbers on me.  I will say, my good drives are always high on the face - much straighter, less spin, and kinda just fall out of the sky.  I feel like when I hit it in the center, it kind of rises when it gets to the apex. 

High on the face is going to produce high launch and low spin. Low on the face will be low launch and high spin.

If there’s nothing enough spin the ball doesn’t have the ability to stay in the air so that’s why you see the balls just fall out of the sky on those shots. 
 

The ones that rise when they get to the apex have more spin that’s needed and you see the “ballooning” effect.

Since your better drives are high on the face that is why you aren’t generating a lot of spin and why the max is a better fit.

Would need to see the numbers from the fitting for both clubs to really see what’s going on.

launch, aoa, spin, peak height and land/descent angle. Ball speed and smash as well

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

Link to comment

There are a lot of other factors that can change the spin rate. I have exactly the same swing speed and the SIM Max. Spin is about 2100-2400. The shaft alone can make a huge difference re: spin. I assume you were fit for both head and shaft? If so, might be as simple as changing the ball you play. What ball are you playing? 

Blue Tees Ambassador

Scotty Cameron Newport 2 Blade

Vokey SM8 60, SM5 54

Titleist AP2 720 W-4i

Taylormade SIM Max 3W - 15 degree with Fujikura Ventus Blue 66g XS shaft

Taylormade SIM Max Driver - 10.5 with Fujikura Tour Spec Pro II 79g XS shaft

Titleist ProV1

https://linktr.ee/graiggolfs

Link to comment
3 hours ago, GraigGolfs said:

The shaft alone can make a huge difference re: spin

This is not true. The shaft itself cannot significantly change spin. This comes directly from the VP of shaft design at PX.

A shaft can help influence how a persons swings a club and delivers it to the ball that will result in changes in spin and other ball flight characteristics.

 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

Link to comment
On 3/30/2021 at 4:11 PM, BRCGolf said:

Hi all -

I have a general fitting question for everyone out there.  I was fit into a Sim Max, but I have a driver swing speed of 115-117 mph.  I wasn’t fit into this because of the forgiveness level, it was because I wasn’t generating enough spin.  I have a hard time believing that at my speed (not a brag) that I’d have trouble generating spin.  I feel like I’m leaving some distance on the table with the Sim Max as it’s the higher spinning option.  
 

As I get onto the course now, I feel like I’m spinning this driver too much and wish I would’ve gone with the Sim, but I also don’t wanna get too low of spin.  
 

is there something in my delivery of the golf club that would cause me to spin it too little? I don’t swing down on the driver and usually the more you swing down, the more the spin is. 
 

Any discussion is welcome, I just figured I’d ask a few questions here for everyone.

Why not loft down and see what happens? 

Driver: Ping G430 Max 9*, Ping Tour 70X

Fairway: Ping G425 15*, Ping Tour 70X

Hybrid: Ping G425 22*, Ping Tour 80X

Irons:  Ping i230 4-GW, TT DG X100

Wedges: :edel-golf-1: SMS 50D/54V/58D:Nippon:Modus 130 stiff, +1”

Putter:  :edel-golf-1: EAS 1.0

Ball: Titleist 2023 AVX

Link to comment

I am going to give my first reaction to this post; yes is is sarcastic but sums up the player/fitter relationship we often see...guess I woke up a little cranky this morning.

1. Player goes to what we can only assume was a competent fitter. The fitter puts him in a driver that works for the dynamics of the swing

2. Player, not bragging, says my swing speed is too high for a forgiving driver and I should really be in another model.

3. Without any actual LM data, the player indicates they have an upward angle of attack and hit the ball high on the face. This generally means high launch low spin.

4. Player has doubts about equipment and is looking for confirmation based on a description that he should be playing a more “players” club and not the high handicap version.


Fitting is designed to look at how the player swings the club and how the ball reacts. With clubs designed to lower spin the player gets lower spin number that when hit perfectly generate a great shot. However when looking at the players less than perfect shots the results are far less than adequate; bordering on bad. The ego of the player wants the low handicap version because of that one drive. They prefer lower launching clubs because they get
More roll from those low launch no spin drives giving the impression of better performance.

Fitting is not a perfect science and multiple fittings may come up with different results.

If you want some input/clarification on your fitting post the numbers the fitter was looking at and we can provide some feedback.

If you really want the sim and not the max, just go buy one.

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

Link to comment
14 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

This is not true. The shaft itself cannot significantly change spin. This comes directly from the VP of shaft design at PX.

A shaft can help influence how a persons swings a club and delivers it to the ball that will result in changes in spin and other ball flight characteristics.

 

So you're saying shaft does affect spin... By affecting swing... You just contradicted yourself. 

Blue Tees Ambassador

Scotty Cameron Newport 2 Blade

Vokey SM8 60, SM5 54

Titleist AP2 720 W-4i

Taylormade SIM Max 3W - 15 degree with Fujikura Ventus Blue 66g XS shaft

Taylormade SIM Max Driver - 10.5 with Fujikura Tour Spec Pro II 79g XS shaft

Titleist ProV1

https://linktr.ee/graiggolfs

Link to comment
11 minutes ago, GraigGolfs said:

So you're saying shaft does affect spin... By affecting swing... You just contradicted yourself. 

Not contradicting my self.

Spin like ball speed and launch are determined by the club and how it makes contact with the ball which is determined by the golfer. 
 

A shaft has the potential to influence how a person swings the club. Someone hitting low on the face of a a driver is going to generate higher spin than a center or above center contact spot. If a person changes shafts and still makes contact on the bottom of the face the shaft that’s now in that club isn’t going to significantly reduce the spin. 

The differences between and high spin shaft vs a low spin shaft is usually 200-300 rpm which isn’t much and that can be influence by contact on the face as well with the same shaft.

A shaft has the potential to influence the way a person swings the club. A heavier shaft as an example may change how a golfer engages the muscles and thus their sequencing which can then influence strike location on the face which then changes the spin.

As Don Brown told us while talking in the PX conference room a shaft isn’t going to knock off 1000 rpm that’s the player. 
 


 

 

 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

Link to comment

I agree with you. That's exactly what I said. There are a number of factors here. Shaft is one. A combination of things could be contributing to this. You took one statement out of context and tried to discredit me. I don't appreciate that. I appreciate your expertise here, but I also don't appreciate the marketing spin.

Blue Tees Ambassador

Scotty Cameron Newport 2 Blade

Vokey SM8 60, SM5 54

Titleist AP2 720 W-4i

Taylormade SIM Max 3W - 15 degree with Fujikura Ventus Blue 66g XS shaft

Taylormade SIM Max Driver - 10.5 with Fujikura Tour Spec Pro II 79g XS shaft

Titleist ProV1

https://linktr.ee/graiggolfs

Link to comment
13 minutes ago, GraigGolfs said:

I agree with you. That's exactly what I said. There are a number of factors here. Shaft is one. A combination of things could be contributing to this. You took one statement out of context and tried to discredit me. I don't appreciate that. I appreciate your expertise here, but I also don't appreciate the marketing spin.

I didn’t take anything out of context. Your statement says a shaft alone can make a huge difference. Which is what I commented on to say the shaft itself can’t.

I have no marketing spin. I’m stating what I’ve learned from direct conversations with a shaft designer. I get no kickbacks and have no ties to any brand of shaft or club. 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

Link to comment
1 minute ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

I didn’t take anything out of context. Your statement says a shaft alone can make a huge difference. Which is what I commented on to say the shaft itself can’t.

I have no marketing spin. I’m stating what I’ve learned from direct conversations with a shaft designer. I get no kickbacks and have no ties to any brand of shaft or club. 

Ok, thanks. 👍🏼

Blue Tees Ambassador

Scotty Cameron Newport 2 Blade

Vokey SM8 60, SM5 54

Titleist AP2 720 W-4i

Taylormade SIM Max 3W - 15 degree with Fujikura Ventus Blue 66g XS shaft

Taylormade SIM Max Driver - 10.5 with Fujikura Tour Spec Pro II 79g XS shaft

Titleist ProV1

https://linktr.ee/graiggolfs

Link to comment

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...