Golfware Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 Okay, so after yesterday's and last weekend results, my GI iron/softer shaft experiment has failed me. I've been playing the 09 Burner's with KBS Tours, stock stiff. I'm not inclined to think that these KBS Tours are 5.5 rather than 6.0, but that's just a guess. I came from AP1's with DGS300's as a reference, and before that, I had the Callaway X-16 Pro Series that had DGS300's, that were stiffer because of the bore-thru hosel. Anyways.. I thought with the softer shaft, if I made a nice smooth swing, I'd get great results. And to be honest, it's correct. But that's a 70% swing, not even a 90% swing. My dispersion has been lousy, and I've just been all over the map. I had one solid round when it started to get colder, so I wasn't swinging as hard. They'll be perfect for my winter rounds. But on Sunday, I was able to use my friends Scratch AR1's with KBS Tour 6.0's (hardstepped once) and they were BUTTER. Just so perfect. My best friend commented right away that I should have played with these, and that he was mad that "now I've fixed my iron game". The stiffer shaft was huge! More over, with the AR1's (and even EZ1's in the 3&4), the lack of offset and thin topline are wonderful!! I'm shocked to even admit it. For quite some time, I've told myself to play with a GI iron, with moderate to think topline which would inspire/instill confidence. But to be honest, after I hit the AR1's, all of the offset is frankly, just "off" putting. LOL. I know this may sound weird, but just the other day, I was hitting the MX300's 6-iron, which as minimal offset, and hitting them string straight. Maybe a little draw here, a little fade there. But for the most part, straight. I grabbed my AP1 6-iron and hooked the crap out of it. Strange. I know offset was made to get help get the ball in the air. Not hook it. Anyways... Well, I'm off my large GI iron kick for me. I'm onto the "forged or death" movement... which is why I've loving these Scratch AR1's/EZ1's combo, and am lusting after some Diablo Forged or MX300's.... WITH a stiffer shaft. It's ALL about the shaft baby. I might even re-shaft the Burner's with PX 6.0's or KBS Tour X's (for my winter set of course)! Cheers! Current bag: Some Callaway, some Cleveland. Down to 2 OEM's! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addicted2Golf Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 I've been tempted to make the jump to blades but haven't yet. My Ping I5's are a mid handicapper iron - less topline and offset than a GI iron but more forgiving than a blade. I probably need to stick with these for one more season. Callaway FT-9 Driver 10.5* Grafalloy Prolaunch Axis Blue Callaway FT-9 Driver 9.0* Grafalloy Prolaunch Platinum Cobra Baffler Rail F Fairway 15.5* Fujikura Motore Wilson FYbrid 19* UST Proforce AXIV Core Cobra Baffler Rail H Hybrid 22* Fujikura Motore Ping I15 Irons 5-UW AWT Ping Tour-W 56*,60* DG Spinner Ping Redwood ZB Putter, WRX Starshot, 35" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamo Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 I used to have some SGI irons but I just could not hit all of the shots I wanted to. The sole was too big, and it was hard to get under the ball. I love my MP 57s because they are forgiving, but with the size of a blade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPY VIP GolfSpy Dave Posted March 10, 2010 SPY VIP Share Posted March 10, 2010 I just got back from the range with my 09 Burners. Stock stiff TM shafts. On Sunday I demoed MX200s and they were very longs and straight. Today was hookfest with the burners. Thanks for posting this topic. I wonder now how the offset in the MX200s differs from the burners. I feel like I too may be talking myself into new irons... Volvo Intorqueo All the cool kids follow me on twitter: @GolfspyDave If you are not a cool kid, following me on twitter will make you cool... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Saternus Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 A bad range session/18 holes will always have me thinking about a new something (or a new everything). Sorry to hear that your experiment failed. Personally, I'm still thinking about a set of shovels (staying with stiff shafts though). Follow me on Twitter: @MattSaternus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPY VIP GolfSpy Dave Posted March 10, 2010 SPY VIP Share Posted March 10, 2010 A bad range session/18 holes will always have me thinking about a new something (or a new everything). Sorry to hear that your experiment failed. Personally, I'm still thinking about a set of shovels (staying with stiff shafts though). I was the master of any 150 yard dogleg left hole today though... Volvo Intorqueo All the cool kids follow me on twitter: @GolfspyDave If you are not a cool kid, following me on twitter will make you cool... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MmmmmmBuddy Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 Shaft is a big big part of iron fitting. If you are serious about Mizzys, look into getting fit at an account that has the new Shaft Optimizer software. We just got it in today, and it is sooooo accurate. 3 swings and it told me exactly what shafts would be a good fit for my swing speed and tempo. It even recommends hard or soft stepping if needed. I love it. Driver - Ping G430 Max 9° | Ventus Blue TR Hybrid - ZX 16° & 18° | GD Tour IZ S 2 Iron - ZU65 17° | AeroTech SteelFiber 110icw S Irons - ZX7 MKII 4-Pw | TTDGTI S400, std length 1° flat Wedges - RTX 6 Tour Rack 50° 54° 58° | TTDGTI S400, std length 1° flat Putter - L.A.B. Golf Link.1 | LA Golf P135 shaft | Garsen Quad Tour grip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPY VIP GolfSpy Dave Posted March 10, 2010 SPY VIP Share Posted March 10, 2010 Shaft is a big big part of iron fitting. If you are serious about Mizzys, look into getting fit at an account that has the new Shaft Optimizer software. We just got it in today, and it is sooooo accurate. 3 swings and it told me exactly what shafts would be a good fit for my swing speed and tempo. It even recommends hard or soft stepping if needed. I love it. They have it here at the course proshop. Light stiff or something like that when I was fitted for pings. The Dynalite S300 may be the ideal shaft, I guess. Volvo Intorqueo All the cool kids follow me on twitter: @GolfspyDave If you are not a cool kid, following me on twitter will make you cool... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Saternus Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 Shaft is a big big part of iron fitting. If you are serious about Mizzys, look into getting fit at an account that has the new Shaft Optimizer software. We just got it in today, and it is sooooo accurate. 3 swings and it told me exactly what shafts would be a good fit for my swing speed and tempo. It even recommends hard or soft stepping if needed. I love it. I half-watched someone getting fit with that at GG the other day and I do remember hearing that the recommendation was for stiff flex hardstepped once. I thought that was pretty neat. Can you tell me more about the process and what information it gives back to you? I've heard a whole range of things from: "it's useless" to "it's awesome" without seeing much in the way of specifics. Follow me on Twitter: @MattSaternus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MmmmmmBuddy Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 I half-watched someone getting fit with that at GG the other day and I do remember hearing that the recommendation was for stiff flex hardstepped once. I thought that was pretty neat. Can you tell me more about the process and what information it gives back to you? I've heard a whole range of things from: "it's useless" to "it's awesome" without seeing much in the way of specifics. As previously stated, we just received this system today, so my experience is fairly limited, but so far, everyone that we have tested it on has gotten a recommendation that has been on the money. process is a follows 1) Player takes 3 shots with Mizuno Shaft Optimizer, while the fitter records 5 data points from each swing. 2) Fitter takes the 15 data points and enters them into the Mizuno software, and the software analyzes and recommends 3 steel shafts, 1 or 2 possible graphite shafts, and 1 Rifle steel option. 3) Fitter then uses recommendations to try the shafts in the heads the player is looking at, to see what gives the player the best mix of feel and flight. I currently play original satin finish Rifle Project X 6.5. I picked up these shafts a while ago, and I know that they are too stiff for me, but I am too vain and too cheap to change them. The Mizzy software fit me into these 3 options 1 KBS Tour X soft stepped 2 Project X 6.0 3 Dynamic Gold X100 Soft Stepped Like I said, right on the money. Driver - Ping G430 Max 9° | Ventus Blue TR Hybrid - ZX 16° & 18° | GD Tour IZ S 2 Iron - ZU65 17° | AeroTech SteelFiber 110icw S Irons - ZX7 MKII 4-Pw | TTDGTI S400, std length 1° flat Wedges - RTX 6 Tour Rack 50° 54° 58° | TTDGTI S400, std length 1° flat Putter - L.A.B. Golf Link.1 | LA Golf P135 shaft | Garsen Quad Tour grip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldplayer Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 IMO GI irons are not a good way to go for the mid to lower handicapper. Companies like Callaway will tell you that max forgivness and strong lofts are the panacea for every players game. I belive that is a con. Unless you cannot hit an iron somewhere near the middle regularly, or make any sort of repeatable swing, GI and super GI will do nothing to improve your game. They give insufficent feedback and only hit one shot shape (high). The marketing hype will suggest that you need to get the lastest breakthrough in design but in reailty iron performance has not changed a great deal in 10 years. Quality forged "players" sets of 5 and 10 years ago are better made and have superior feel and performance to a lot of the lastest Chinese mass-produced rubbish. Sure the new irons are longer but that is because loft wise a pw is the same as an older 9 iron! Shaft choice of course is an individual thing and every player has his own shaft profile needs; but shafts like dynamic golds have stood the test of time and 20 years later S300's are still the shaft of choice for many better players. Although the policy that you should play the softest shaft you can control has merit, a shaft like an S300 will give many players very good control without any significant loss of distance. Each to his own is obviously the best way to go but the marketing hype surrounding modern GI irons should be taken with a pinch of salt. Cobra S2 9.5 with Aldila Voodoo reg. Sonartec SS 3.5 14* with Fuji tour platform. TM V-Steel 18* 5 wood with stock reax stiff shaft. Sonartec HB-001 21* hybrid with graphite design stiff. 4-pw KZG Evolution irons with Rifle 5.0 Flighted. TM rac gap wedge 52/8 with DG wedge flex. Mizuno MPT 10 56* sw with DG wedge flex. Knockoff 2 ball putter. ProV1 or Bridgestone 330RX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamo Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 A bad range session/18 holes will always have me thinking about a new something (or a new everything). Sorry to hear that your experiment failed. Personally, I'm still thinking about a set of shovels (staying with stiff shafts though). At least you wont have any problems out of the sand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Saternus Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 As previously stated, we just received this system today, so my experience is fairly limited, but so far, everyone that we have tested it on has gotten a recommendation that has been on the money. process is a follows 1) Player takes 3 shots with Mizuno Shaft Optimizer, while the fitter records 5 data points from each swing. 2) Fitter takes the 15 data points and enters them into the Mizuno software, and the software analyzes and recommends 3 steel shafts, 1 or 2 possible graphite shafts, and 1 Rifle steel option. 3) Fitter then uses recommendations to try the shafts in the heads the player is looking at, to see what gives the player the best mix of feel and flight. I currently play original satin finish Rifle Project X 6.5. I picked up these shafts a while ago, and I know that they are too stiff for me, but I am too vain and too cheap to change them. The Mizzy software fit me into these 3 options 1 KBS Tour X soft stepped 2 Project X 6.0 3 Dynamic Gold X100 Soft Stepped Like I said, right on the money. This sounds like a really solid system. I particularly like the fact that you can try all the recommendations and see what feels good after they put your numbers through the computer. Though I'm not inclined to change my irons anytime soon (at least not to anything new), if I were going to change I would definitely try this system. Heck, I might try it just to confirm that I have the right set of shafts now. Follow me on Twitter: @MattSaternus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfware Posted March 10, 2010 Author Share Posted March 10, 2010 Shaft is a big big part of iron fitting. If you are serious about Mizzys, look into getting fit at an account that has the new Shaft Optimizer software. We just got it in today, and it is sooooo accurate. 3 swings and it told me exactly what shafts would be a good fit for my swing speed and tempo. It even recommends hard or soft stepping if needed. I love it. I did. It recommended DGX100, PX 6.5 or KBS Tour X. Yep. My current shafts are way too soft. Current bag: Some Callaway, some Cleveland. Down to 2 OEM's! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamo Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 This is pretty cool, I've got to try it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPY VIP GolfSpy Dave Posted March 10, 2010 SPY VIP Share Posted March 10, 2010 IMO GI irons are not a good way to go for the mid to lower handicapper. Companies like Callaway will tell you that max forgivness and strong lofts are the panacea for every players game. I belive that is a con. Unless you cannot hit an iron somewhere near the middle regularly, or make any sort of repeatable swing, GI and super GI will do nothing to improve your game. They give insufficent feedback and only hit one shot shape (high). The marketing hype will suggest that you need to get the lastest breakthrough in design but in reailty iron performance has not changed a great deal in 10 years. Quality forged "players" sets of 5 and 10 years ago are better made and have superior feel and performance to a lot of the lastest Chinese mass-produced rubbish. Sure the new irons are longer but that is because loft wise a pw is the same as an older 9 iron! Shaft choice of course is an individual thing and every player has his own shaft profile needs; but shafts like dynamic golds have stood the test of time and 20 years later S300's are still the shaft of choice for many better players. Although the policy that you should play the softest shaft you can control has merit, a shaft like an S300 will give many players very good control without any significant loss of distance. Each to his own is obviously the best way to go but the marketing hype surrounding modern GI irons should be taken with a pinch of salt. Good post. You make a good argument here that the shoer term gains from GI may hinder overall swing progression of someone who is trying to learn. Interesting POV, thanks. Volvo Intorqueo All the cool kids follow me on twitter: @GolfspyDave If you are not a cool kid, following me on twitter will make you cool... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MmmmmmBuddy Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 I did. It recommended DGX100, PX 6.5 or KBS Tour X. Yep. My current shafts are way too soft. What are you playing now??? Driver - Ping G430 Max 9° | Ventus Blue TR Hybrid - ZX 16° & 18° | GD Tour IZ S 2 Iron - ZU65 17° | AeroTech SteelFiber 110icw S Irons - ZX7 MKII 4-Pw | TTDGTI S400, std length 1° flat Wedges - RTX 6 Tour Rack 50° 54° 58° | TTDGTI S400, std length 1° flat Putter - L.A.B. Golf Link.1 | LA Golf P135 shaft | Garsen Quad Tour grip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfware Posted March 10, 2010 Author Share Posted March 10, 2010 What are you playing now??? KBS Tour 5.5's in my 09 Burner's. Current bag: Some Callaway, some Cleveland. Down to 2 OEM's! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MmmmmmBuddy Posted March 11, 2010 Share Posted March 11, 2010 Okay, so after yesterday's and last weekend results, my GI iron/softer shaft experiment has failed me. I've been playing the 09 Burner's with KBS Tours, stock stiff. I'm not inclined to think that these KBS Tours are 5.5 rather than 6.0, but that's just a guess. I came from AP1's with DGS300's as a reference, and before that, I had the Callaway X-16 Pro Series that had DGS300's, that were stiffer because of the bore-thru hosel. Anyways.. I thought with the softer shaft, if I made a nice smooth swing, I'd get great results. And to be honest, it's correct. But that's a 70% swing, not even a 90% swing. My dispersion has been lousy, and I've just been all over the map. I had one solid round when it started to get colder, so I wasn't swinging as hard. They'll be perfect for my winter rounds. But on Sunday, I was able to use my friends Scratch AR1's with KBS Tour 6.0's (hardstepped once) and they were BUTTER. Just so perfect. My best friend commented right away that I should have played with these, and that he was mad that "now I've fixed my iron game". The stiffer shaft was huge! More over, with the AR1's (and even EZ1's in the 3&4), the lack of offset and thin topline are wonderful!! I'm shocked to even admit it. For quite some time, I've told myself to play with a GI iron, with moderate to think topline which would inspire/instill confidence. But to be honest, after I hit the AR1's, all of the offset is frankly, just "off" putting. LOL. I know this may sound weird, but just the other day, I was hitting the MX300's 6-iron, which as minimal offset, and hitting them string straight. Maybe a little draw here, a little fade there. But for the most part, straight. I grabbed my AP1 6-iron and hooked the crap out of it. Strange. I know offset was made to get help get the ball in the air. Not hook it. Anyways... Well, I'm off my large GI iron kick for me. I'm onto the "forged or death" movement... which is why I've loving these Scratch AR1's/EZ1's combo, and am lusting after some Diablo Forged or MX300's.... WITH a stiffer shaft. It's ALL about the shaft baby. I might even re-shaft the Burner's with PX 6.0's or KBS Tour X's (for my winter set of course)! Cheers! When you hardstep an iron shaft, it plays 1/2 a flex stiffer. 6.0 hardstepped, are 6.5's. Sounds like The Optimizer nailed it again. I am really starting to believe in that thing. Driver - Ping G430 Max 9° | Ventus Blue TR Hybrid - ZX 16° & 18° | GD Tour IZ S 2 Iron - ZU65 17° | AeroTech SteelFiber 110icw S Irons - ZX7 MKII 4-Pw | TTDGTI S400, std length 1° flat Wedges - RTX 6 Tour Rack 50° 54° 58° | TTDGTI S400, std length 1° flat Putter - L.A.B. Golf Link.1 | LA Golf P135 shaft | Garsen Quad Tour grip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfware Posted March 11, 2010 Author Share Posted March 11, 2010 When you hardstep an iron shaft, it plays 1/2 a flex stiffer. 6.0 hardstepped, are 6.5's. Sounds like The Optimizer nailed it again. I am really starting to believe in that thing. Oh that's funny. They feel great! Yep, the Optimizer nailed it again! Current bag: Some Callaway, some Cleveland. Down to 2 OEM's! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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