The Stack System Review and Progress Thread

[BMart519]

Surprise, surprise, I check my email this morning and have a delivery notification 2 days ahead of schedule. Pop my head out the window and see the stack has arrived just in time for a speed session at home over the lunch hour. 

Quickly get the stack registered and work through the app menus to familiarize myself. It quickly becomes apparent that this app is extremely polished, unlike most where you have to swipe through 4-5 screens of instructions before accessing the main menu. I love that there are relevant videos positioned as you click through to the programs which you can watch or skip permanently. 

On to the interface itself:
The rest timing between sets and reps along with the ability to have it call out remaining remaining rest time puts this thing light years ahead of other systems becuase throughout the routine I wanted to get reps in faster. I was making lunch in the other room on the 2-3 minute rests between sets and the audible tones have you ready to swing as soon as rest between reps is up. I needed to speak louder than anticipated for it to log the swing speeds, but that is a minor complaint to not have to touch your phone repeatedly for data entry. 

Yesterday I decided to dig up a free sample workout from the Fit for Golf offseason program. I was still feeling some muscle soreness today, even after following the 15 minute warm-up protocol in the Stack app. I logged these comments in the app along with health ratings - again, more attention to detail. 

I plan on doing this warmup for every session and have already used it before rounds of golf and snowboarding when it was posted on the website. EXCEPT to test the impacts of full warm ups on speed... I plan on doing my "late for tee time" warmup of 10-20 swings with the orange whip before 1 session during the Foundations program and see what kind of CHS differences there are. 

Baseline Session: 

I find it very interesting that my eSpeed as well as @dlow206 was well below our Driver speeds during baselining while @mr.hicksta was within 1 MPH. My early guess is this ties into lower speed output on some of the higher weights. I was thrilled to be topping out at 108 MPH which is around an all time personal best for me. My biggest challenge was to truly simulate a "full" swing matching the effort on course as per the instructional video. The speeds I saw here made me feel that I have significant room for improvement on course by not tightening up and trying to steer the ball or trying to "hit" at it with poor tempo. Trying to match a 1 arm swing effort to an on-course swing was a bit of crapshoot as it seemed much easier to turn farther and get more wrist set. 

Hardware:

All the components look good, shaft seems firm, grip could be better, and weights have nice fit and finish along with the carrying case. I like it is shorter than a standard length driver which makes it easier to carry and use in smaller spaces indoors. My only suggestion for improvement thus far: the threads should stop 1/4" from the end of the adapter.  It would be extremely easy to cross-thread the yellow tip onto the shaft, especially with the number of weight changes. This would likely required the threaded rod to be extended, but far from a deal breaker. An unthreaded portion allows you to slide the cap on, rotate counter clockwise until the threads engage like on a sparkplug and then tighten down. It is a pain in the butt to place the cap perfectly straight on the threaded end and twist it on in perfect alignment. I also dropped the cap on the floor 3 or 4 times because it falls as soon as the threads disengage which is a PITA. An unthreaded section would allow the cap to sit in place after the last thread. I would be super frustrated if I blew the threads and rendered the product useless after spending $450 on it. 

Overall:

Already glad I made this purchase even with the high price, the level of polish of the hardware and especially the software (it shows pictures of the actual weight discs between sets) is above most competitors. The swing analysis aspect of Rypstick is a huge bonus, but with the video content embedded into the routines and timing; the Stack is very close to having personalized coaching. I am very interested to see "grit" scores and any other tricks to help keep me engaged (push notifications with workout reminders are engaged!). These early results have me believing that 110 MPH cruising speed should be achievable this year. 

Unrelated:

The Fit for Golf exercise routines are no joke, it's been a long time since I've superset squats and chin ups which I was feeling today even after the 15 minute Stack warmup. The FFG mobility work is great for disassociating upper and lower body which is a weakness for me... I think a subscription is in my near future as having all the routines made for you is a nice benefit and the structured mobility work warms you up leading into speed and strength work. I've suffered greatly with initiative to work out at home since the gyms closed on lockdowns. The Stack is going to be a great step in turning that around and I am tempted to take the plunge on FFG to fully commit as there doesn't seem to be much end in sight for the next few months. 

[dlow206]

I submitted a question just to see if they had seen anyone else like me where there speeds are 15 plus MPH lower than their driver speeds with a ball. (same issue I have had with Superspeed sticks, its not really that important of an issue, but can just mentally affect your morale). Sasho actually just gave me a call right now and talked to him on the phone for 10 minutes going through my numbers and talking through the issue. That was really cool and amazing customer service. 

[FrogginBullfish]

That is impressive customer service for sure. Did that get sorted out and what did Sasho have to tell you about it?

I submitted a question just to see if they had seen anyone else like me where there speeds are 15 plus MPH lower than their driver speeds with a ball. (same issue I have had with Superspeed sticks, its not really that important of an issue, but can just mentally affect your morale). Sasho actually just gave me a call right now and talked to him on the phone for 10 minutes going through my numbers and talking through the issue. That was really cool and amazing customer service. 

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[dlow206]

2 minutes ago, FrogginBullfish said:

That is impressive customer service for sure. Did that get sorted out and what did Sasho have to tell you about it?

 

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He gave some tips on how to setup the radar and asked some other questions to make sure I input all of the right parameters such as my driver length. He mentioned that he would consider me an edge case given the discrepancies between my speed with the Stack vs. actual driver, but that that discrepancies wouldn't have any impact on my training besides the Distance potential not being reflective. 

[Vegan_Golfer_PNW]

1 hour ago, dlow206 said:

He gave some tips on how to setup the radar and asked some other questions to make sure I input all of the right parameters such as my driver length. He mentioned that he would consider me an edge case given the discrepancies between my speed with the Stack vs. actual driver, but that that discrepancies wouldn't have any impact on my training besides the Distance potential not being reflective. 

Your a unicorn!

[BMart519]

14 hours ago, dlow206 said:

He gave some tips on how to setup the radar and asked some other questions to make sure I input all of the right parameters such as my driver length. He mentioned that he would consider me an edge case given the discrepancies between my speed with the Stack vs. actual driver, but that that discrepancies wouldn't have any impact on my training besides the Distance potential not being reflective. 

Did he say where the distance potential is calculated from?

I swore during my baseline session my 282 yard potential came up after my 108 MPH driver swing which is a 2.6 multiplier of CHS and is a common number thrown around for max carry. But your numbers don't line up with that. In the app is does mention distance potential includes rollout on moderate-firm conditions, at 1000 ft elevation and 90 degrees with Prov1X balls. 

I'm glad I play at 3000+ ft of elevation because it never hits 90 here LOL. 

[dlow206]

5 minutes ago, BMart519 said:

Did he say where the distance potential is calculated from?

I swore during my baseline session my 282 yard potential came up after my 108 MPH driver swing which is a 2.6 multiplier of CHS and is a common number thrown around for max carry. But your numbers don't line up with that. In the app is does mention distance potential includes rollout on moderate-firm conditions, at 1000 ft elevation and 90 degrees with Prov1X balls. 

I'm glad I play at 3000+ ft of elevation because it never hits 90 here LOL. 

We didn't talk about distance potential specifically, but did talk a little bit about the "eSpeed". 

What was your eSpeed for that 282 potential? Was it that 108?

[dlow206]

So here are my stats after session 2. I am not sure how much of the speed gain is actual speed gain vs. me just learning how to better swing the sticks. I've always found it challenging to maximize swing speeds without a ball. With a speed stick, i guess my body is trying to swing as fast as possible through the full duration of the downswing whereas with a real ball and real club, my body is trying to maximize speed and release through the ball. 

 

[BMart519]

6 minutes ago, dlow206 said:

We didn't talk about distance potential specifically, but did talk a little bit about the "eSpeed". 

What was your eSpeed for that 282 potential? Was it that 108?

101 eSpeed. 108 was my fastest driver swing during baseline session and I thought I saw the distance potential update on the screen at that time. 

[dlow206]

2 minutes ago, BMart519 said:

101 eSpeed. 108 was my fastest driver swing during baseline session and I thought I saw the distance potential update on the screen at that time. 

Distance potential is calculated based on eSpeed, i do know that part. And eSpeed is always calculated based off "Stack Speed" which is the swings with the 195 gram configuration. Since the Stack stick is not quite as along as a full driver, the "Stack Speed" is multiplied times some sort of multiplier that considers the driver length you input to get to eSpeed. I think the "Stack Speed" is also using the median of the 195 gram swings (vs. mean). 

[DriverBreaker]

What type of radar does it come with?

[dlow206]

14 minutes ago, ChasingScratch said:

What type of radar does it come with?

It doesn't come with a radar, but it does recommend a few of the most popular ones out there on the market. And then in the app, you input which radar you are using. 

[TBT]

It doesn't come with a radar, but it does recommend a few of the most popular ones out there on the market. And then in the app, you input which radar you are using. 

So you have to have a radar to use it?


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[dlow206]

5 minutes ago, TBT said:

 

So you have to have a radar to use it?


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Yes, you need a radar. 

[FrogginBullfish]

To get the most out of it, you need a radar. You input your speeds in the app as you go through a baseline session so that the algorithm can develop a training protocol tailored to you to get the most optimal speed gains. Continuing to add your speeds in as you go will help the algorithm continue to develop the training protocol for the best speed gains.

So you have to have a radar to use it?


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[BMart519]

3mph slower today compared to baselining. Was hungry after a light lunch but did the same stack warmup. 
Consciously thinking about “full” on course swing effort versus all out “max” is confusing when you are swinging a weight on stick. Definitely could swing harder...

Sad my grit was 97%, I guess I shouldn’t have waited 2 days after baseline test since it didn’t tell me to take rest days... either that or it was based on my speed throughout the session. 
I will likely add full driver swings to finish the stack warmup protocol prior to the foundations swings with the stack. If for no other reason than to get a feel for full driver effort versus just going into stack swings which you would want to swing as hard as possible. Again found that I am on the verge of yelling for the app to pickup the speed number. 

Narrowed my stance for last couple swings with the lightest weight and picked up 5mph. Going to experiment with that moving forward. 
 

Edited April 22, 2021 by BMart519

[DriverBreaker]

15 hours ago, dlow206 said:

It doesn't come with a radar, but it does recommend a few of the most popular ones out there on the market. And then in the app, you input which radar you are using. 

Wow, so it's $350 sans radar.  Interesting. 

[BMart519]

Got a couple MPH back today compared to session 1. 2 stack sessions plus baselining and 2 fit for golf workouts in the past 6 days... Probably a bit too much activity for speed training. I don’t see 3 weekly FFG sessions and 3 stack sessions as sustainable and FFG will likely go down to 2x per week. 
Didn’t do much warmup today, did the stack about an hour after a Callaway demo. Epic Max LS is legit and the fitter put me in the Smoke 60X to keep spin down with a 9 deg head turned down to 8 . The SC200 radar seemed to match up close to CHS on trackman, which was mostly around 95 mph today.  
Found another feeling late in the session: waiting for wrists to fully set at the top and picked up a couple MPH. Have started keeping notes on these different feels through out the sessions that add speed  

110 is a ways off...

[dlow206]

2 hours ago, BMart519 said:

Got a couple MPH back today compared to session 1. 2 stack sessions plus baselining and 2 fit for golf workouts in the past 6 days... Probably a bit too much activity for speed training. I don’t see 3 weekly FFG sessions and 3 stack sessions as sustainable and FFG will likely go down to 2x per week. 
Didn’t do much warmup today, did the stack about an hour after a Callaway demo. Epic Max LS is legit and the fitter put me in the Smoke 60X to keep spin down with a 9 deg head turned down to 8 . The SC200 radar seemed to match up close to CHS on trackman, which was mostly around 95 mph today.  
Found another feeling late in the session: waiting for wrists to fully set at the top and picked up a couple MPH. Have started keeping notes on these different feels through out the sessions that add speed  

110 is a ways off...

Do you know what your swing speed is on a trackman or other launch monitor with a ball, just curious.

edit: never mind i needed to read your post closer

[revkev]

About how many swings are you making in a session and does this one exclude non-dominant swings?

I’m coming to a point where I think three things on this topic.

1. Some sort of speed training will increase swing speed if you’re doing none - sounds obvious but most people do none.

2. Flexibility core training golf specific type workouts should be incorporated.

3. It needs to continue at some level to maintain gains.

I have the trackman sheet from just at the end of the G400 driver test. That was 3 years ago. My game had really taken a nose dive due to being out of shape and significant weight game. Driver SS had dropped from mid 90’s to mid 80’s. Handicap had gone from 1 to 9.

Average SS that day was 84, carry distance 194.

I had already started a fitness program where I lost 40lbs - I’ve kept most of that off even through COVID. Started SuperSpeed that fall as a MGS tester. By the Spring I was consistently in the low 90’s and carrying driver close to 220. Handicap started to drop and has gotten as low as 4.4. It’s currently at 5.3, swing speed averages 93, carry right around 220. I hit overspeed training hard the end of last year and in reviewing data had a session where I averaged 96 for 20 drives - hit several that carried over 230 and one with a swing speed of 101.

I doubt that I would be able to maintain that level of workout activity.

Good luck with this one guys and stick with it.




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[dlow206]

38 minutes ago, revkev said:

About how many swings are you making in a session and does this one exclude non-dominant swings?

I’m coming to a point where I think three things on this topic.

1. Some sort of speed training will increase swing speed if you’re doing none - sounds obvious but most people do none.

2. Flexibility core training golf specific type workouts should be incorporated.

3. It needs to continue at some level to maintain gains.

I have the trackman sheet from just at the end of the G400 driver test. That was 3 years ago. My game had really taken a nose dive due to being out of shape and significant weight game. Driver SS had dropped from mid 90’s to mid 80’s. Handicap had gone from 1 to 9.

Average SS that day was 84, carry distance 194.

I had already started a fitness program where I lost 40lbs - I’ve kept most of that off even through COVID. Started SuperSpeed that fall as a MGS tester. By the Spring I was consistently in the low 90’s and carrying driver close to 220. Handicap started to drop and has gotten as low as 4.4. It’s currently at 5.3, swing speed averages 93, carry right around 220. I hit overspeed training hard the end of last year and in reviewing data had a session where I averaged 96 for 20 drives - hit several that carried over 230 and one with a swing speed of 101.

I doubt that I would be able to maintain that level of workout activity.

Good luck with this one guys and stick with it.




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The sessions i have done so far are 24 swings total, three sets of 8, each set with a different weight. All swings (at least in the foundation program) have been dominant side swings. All have been “regular” style swings, no step swings, etc.

[BMart519]

Finally surpassed my espeed from baselining today. Yesterday’s fit for golf workout was the easiest of phase 1 and I was feeling pretty good after sleeping in. 

The golf specific mobility work in FFG is going to be a big help with rotational range of motion.

Focusing on the feeling of waiting for the wrists to set at the top and exaggerating using the ground is working. First driver swing after my stack session read 106 which is up 11 MPH from Friday (a slow day). So it seems the distance potential may be on the low side for me.

Definitely need to ignore speed variation session to session and look at the long term trends. 

[BMart519]

I guess I’ve reached the end of the noobie  gains phase... First plateau of sessions with equal speed. New set and rep splits today could have had an effect. 
 

Did a 5 ball set with driver after speed training: 250-230-250-240-250 (carry). Driver speed was between 99-101 which lines up well with today’s espeed. Contact was solid except for a high toe on the 230 shot. 

[dlow206]

2 minutes ago, BMart519 said:

I guess I’ve reached the end of the noobie  gains phase... First plateau of sessions with equal speed. New set and rep splits today could have had an effect. 
 

Did a 5 ball set with driver after speed training: 250-230-250-240-250 (carry). Driver speed was between 99-101 which lines up well with today’s espeed. Contact was solid except for a high toe on the 230 shot. 

Just curious, what length driver do you play? Trying to figure out how much speed is added on betweek stack speed and eSpeed, and one of the main factors is driver length. 

[BMart519]

2 hours ago, dlow206 said:

Just curious, what length driver do you play? Trying to figure out how much speed is added on betweek stack speed and eSpeed, and one of the main factors is driver length. 

Cobra lists the F9 as 45.25" without Arccos grips. That is what I entered in the App, but have never measured. 

[mr.hicksta]

I’m backkkkkkk, and I knocked out Foundation session 4 today. Hyped to keep the training going after a week off!

 

[mr.hicksta]

Another day down! I think my radar placement was out the last set, but it’s all good. Very happy with the system so far and I’m excited to see how it translates to the course!

 

[dlow206]

What i find interesting in looking at results between different folks in this thread is the difference between Stack Speed and eSpeed. Looks like for @BMart519 and @mr.hicksta, the difference is 8 mph. For me, it is 3 mph. I wonder if this is purely due to driver length difference (the driver length you play is an input you enter before starting) or other factors. 

[BMart519]

1 hour ago, dlow206 said:

What i find interesting in looking at results between different folks in this thread is the difference between Stack Speed and eSpeed. Looks like for @BMart519 and @mr.hicksta, the difference is 8 mph. For me, it is 3 mph. I wonder if this is purely due to driver length difference (the driver length you play is an input you enter before starting) or other factors. 

 

Pretty sure it is just a ratio of length between the stack club and length of your driver. My driver was entered at 45.25"

I like that the App now shows your max speed at each weight during the session to give you a target to beat. Another nice to have detail to keep intention high with each set of swings. 

[BMart519]

One aspect of the Stack protocols I like compared to Superspeed is having a larger number of "normal" swings that mimic the actual golf swing but lower total volume. This gives additional chances to experiment with different "feels" or movements and how that impacts swing speed. For example: narrowing my stance, amount of foot flare, loose wrists, "waiting" for a full wrist hinge, and squatting at the top in transition (followed by pressing the lead leg up coming into the ball). 

I've slowly added pieces over my first six sessions which seem to carry over to the course well. Shot Scope had me at -2.65 SG OTT last round and down nearly 1 full shot in 2021 compared to 2020 (3.91). 

I think SuperSpeed accomplishes some of this through the various swings their system employs, especially when it comes to lower body utilization. But, the feels on the step change swings or two-step is not something you can copy over to the golf course. 

I still hate the threads on the Stack end cap and drop it multiple times per session which is my biggest gripe with the product. I change weights at a table so the cap isn't bouncing around on the ground. I could easily cross thread it once or twice each session putting it back together even when starting it counter clockwise to get the threads to engage. 

I want to work through the Foundations program ASAP to see what program the algorithm spits out next and see how that compares to other users. Definitely an engaging system.