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The Stack System Review and Progress Thread


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On 6/29/2021 at 10:16 PM, treeleaf20 said:

I got mine earlier this week and finally had time to complete the baseline today. 

Overall, the app is very easy to use as others have mentioned with recorded instructions and built in rest etc. 

I’m not a long hitter compared to some of the numbers others are posting here so really looking forward to hopefully seeing some progress here.  
 

I'll be in the same boat when I start with a low 90's swing speed. If I can get anywhere near the % gains the others have shown, that will be a game changer.

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On 7/14/2021 at 10:46 AM, BMart519 said:

But speed training can be funny…

Agreed: Just as with weight training, making gains is not a linear progression. There is so much of this work that relates to the Central Nervous System and pushing your mind through barriers as much as it is about the physical ability to apply force to the club. I'm hoping that the Stack will help my sequencing/tempo/timing as I think I have requisite strength but lack the fundamental movement patterns to hit bombs.

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On 12/30/2021 at 11:24 AM, CTEagle said:

@Cory O

Not going to lie, the 20 mph drop yesterday definitely spurred this post but I don't think that's really where I'm swinging. I'm probably still between 95-100 (for the 195g) where I've been since I started this. 

No injuries or swing changes, I am in Florida right now visiting family vs. San Francisco where I live but I'd think the warm weather would help things. 

I work in tech and am a data person so I record everything in the notes section. Weather, how I warmed up, whoop recovery score, how my body is feeling and what my swing thoughts were during that session. I've gone back through my notes and haven't found anything that I could point to. 

 

 

After my first Foundation program just completed and with the incredible results as previously shared, I was moved into the Full Speed Spectrum training program as selected by the app at the start of this year. My first two sessions of this new program were a struggle and both were very underwhelming back to back sessions as far as speed. I have changed something in my routine though. With the New Year and all these happy feels tied to my progress, I started a weight training program to hopefully compliment my Stack training. Well a heavy leg day filled with squats and deadlifts this morning yielded laboring effort during my Stack session later in the day and my worst single day speed results ever. 

But, it gets better….took out the driver for some air swings following the session to take my frustrations out on and obviously not expecting anything but the same struggle. Then this happened. 118mph (SIM2 9.0deg/44.25”/Tour AD DI 7S/JumboMax Ultralight XS). 3mph faster than my previous best. Keep in mind before starting the Stack on Nov 5/21 I was registering in the high 90s. That’s physically finding a way to swing the club 20mph faster in just 2 months. Go figure. 

CE924900-7126-4906-8714-FC234E9853F6.jpeg.79425f398a8ea9b4c9e3b52556451e8d.jpeg

I’m still a believer! Happy New Year! Happy Training Everyone!

 

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Western Canada is emerging from 2 weeks of brutal weather with wind chill regularly between -30 to -50. So I was not spending time in the garage and didn't feel bad about it in the least. Between too many holiday beverages and lazing about with family, I wasn't expecting great things (or fast swings). 

Did my first session in 2.5 weeks of Full Speed Spectrum and set new highs in the first 4 sets, only to slow down for the 195g set and miss out increased distance potential. Found some swing queues that I plan on exploring for the rest of the program. Managed to clock one drive at 155mph ball speed and 265 carry in a garage at roughly 48F. 

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Long time follower, (of this thread and MGS in general) first time poster. 

3 years ago, I made the move from Manitoba to British Columbia (North Dakota ->Washington equivalent for our American Friends) and as such, gained 3-4 months worth of golf season. With the added opportunity to play almost year round, I decided to make a concerted effort to improve.

My first attempts at improvement included more range time and playing more, but I lacked a solid swing foundation, and being a former collegiate level hockey player, my swing remained stiff and "slap shot" like. I floundered at a 20+ handicap for the year, watching a different YouTube video every other day looking for the secret would be the key to unlocking my improvement (and not practicing putting or chipping nearly enough). 

February 2020 I took the plunge and got a 10 pack of lessons from GolfTec, though it was briefly interrupted due to Covid closures, the success was almost instant going from a 21 Hcp to a 12.7 Hcp over the course of the season. This is more an endorsement of my coach than it is of GolfTec, but I did really appreciate the app and the ability to watch video of myself doing the drills etc. While it can be expensive, it's the best investment I've made into the game to date. 

GolfTec.jpg.ec283ab948250cfba4af07c6e709cc56.jpg

 

This past season I was able to get as low as 11.7 Hcp with course management and increased amounts of time practicing putting and chipping while honing the fundamentals of what the lessons were reinforcing. The ball was staying in play (for the most part) and life was good.

While chipping, putting, and golf in general are lifetime pursuits to improve, the last component I felt was unaddressed and could have a significant impact in a relatively short amount of time was swing speed. For a 32 year old 180-190 lbs man, I was only swinging my driver 86 mph max. 

Being a Physiotherapist, I liked the idea of "biohacking" and the routine/schedule that came along with The Stack System. It seemed grounded in solid science, and was accommodating to the individual golfer behind the app. 

Prior to starting The Stack System Program, I scheduled a TPI assessment, which identified "disassociation drills" as being a being of primary importance moving forward. I've coupled what the TPI professional suggested with my own strength and conditioning routine (3x per week) and have nothing but positive things to say about the TPI experience.

As a health care professional, I'd also advocate for doing at least 2-4 weeks of some form of sub-maximal to maximal exercise prior to starting the Stack System, as going from sedentary to swinging with "Full intent" or "Max" effort, at weights you're unaccustomed to might increase your chance of injury. I've used 8-15 minutes worth of my TPI drills as a warm up and it's worked well to this point!

TPI.jpg.0bd26520a98d35008fd898c1f97131ab.jpg

1840395753_BaileyandBowflex.jpg.1957e8c9e569f822e30366794a6abb98.jpg

It has been unusually cold on the West Coast, so the Baseline and First 2 sessions of "Phase 1" were performed at roughly -4C. 

74456572_SnowStack.jpg.cb4d110299955a6851e04f970fbcad0a.jpg211950588_StackandMonitor.jpg.8fe85be5f86a053768fa78392a3782b3.jpg1449112570_ProgressCheckandBaseline.jpg.8932ec0ac22a4c4c33022a3cd350a377.jpg

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

After 5 sessions, I've been incredibly impressed with the results: 

ESpeed: 92 Mph (+6 Mph)

Distance Potential: 254 yards (+13 yds)

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 1395167517_ESpeed.jpg.2a9a8dd2c589d5ca2d1a83a11453de75.jpg

295408343_DistancePotential.jpg.1215060caa25e759ac5b25d1ed7d4315.jpg

1108811050_CurrentNumbers.jpg.0a01b7f5c28d0897737384deadbb5216.jpg

Of note, my 4th session was performed in my garage where space is pretty tight and I was for sure thinking about not hitting anything. My 5th session was completed post Covid-19 infection after the sickest I've been in a decade. 

The increase of roughly 10+ yards checks out on my PRGR at the range, with my 7 iron going roughly 150-155 yds vs. 140-145 yds last season.

For the past 6 weeks my strength and conditioning has been in in the 8-10 rep range (with 1 rest week during Christmas), I'm looking to knock that down to the 4-5 rep range with heavier weights over the course of the next 4 weeks.

I realize the results will not be linear, but the early gains have definitely been eye opening. 

Looking forward to posting again in about a month to see where I end up!

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  • 4 weeks later...

So, I may have just gotten the green light to get The Stack System.  That said, I already have the SuperSpeed sticks, and the SuperSpeed C Club.  So, my question to the group…is it worth it to switch to the Stack?  I don’t care about one club versus 3, I just want the best tool, and the access to the app and a more tailored program vs one-size-fits all protocols of SuperSpeed appeals to me.  Thoughts?

Also, I have the blue/gray radar…work well enough with the Stack app?

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I just competed my stack system first program “the foundation”.  According to the app I was swinging near 100MPH and should be hitting it 280.  Keep in mind my average driver are 200yds before I started.

 

I tested this new found speed on a trackman and outside on a golf course.  Results- same speed w no added distance.  Same result as all other golf training aids and lesssons.  Anyone else notice the same?

 

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Started by baseline, mine was like a couple of others a few mph behind playing speed but it is 30 degrees and in my garage.

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On 2/6/2022 at 11:24 AM, Getoffmylawn said:

So, I may have just gotten the green light to get The Stack System.  That said, I already have the SuperSpeed sticks, and the SuperSpeed C Club.  So, my question to the group…is it worth it to switch to the Stack?  I don’t care about one club versus 3, I just want the best tool, and the access to the app and a more tailored program vs one-size-fits all protocols of SuperSpeed appeals to me.  Thoughts?

Also, I have the blue/gray radar…work well enough with the Stack app?

I believe you are talking about the Swing Speed Radar.. That has been tested and is available for selection within the Stack App to normalize the club head speed. So it is one of the 10 preferred units to use. 

The most important aspect of speed training is getting in reps at max effort/speed multiple times per week. You are splitting hairs between SuperSpeed and Stack based on what I have seen from the level of detail you have been tracking and your prior physical training experience. There are a lot of long drive guys that preach max effort swings using driver with and without a ball is important. 

The biggest benefits of the Stack is: pacing for rest between reps and sets and all of your historical data is logged in the app as well as the ability to journal after each workout. There's approx 7 Stack workout programs vs 6 levels for Superspeed I believe... I still believe making only "normal" swings with the Stack has carried over to my driver swing on course better than all of the swing variations in SS protocols and I do not miss the opposite side swings. 

It's not a magic bullet. Between a back strain, -30 degree temps in my garage, and now COVID (6-10 MPH drop) - I am on pace to have 0 gains over my last 2 Stack programs because I am not able to speed train every 2nd or 3rd day as prescribed. I have been able to maintain speed while not playing and doing minimal weight lifting however. 

I got my squat and deadlift up a fair amount this winter which I thought was limiting my speed as I started to plateau on the Stack in the fall. I am now leaning towards a combination of technique and rotary strength/power being the issues as I can't do nearly as much at home with medicine balls. 

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On 2/12/2022 at 3:51 PM, JustinVA2244 said:

I just competed my stack system first program “the foundation”.  According to the app I was swinging near 100MPH and should be hitting it 280.  Keep in mind my average driver are 200yds before I started.

 

I tested this new found speed on a trackman and outside on a golf course.  Results- same speed w no added distance.  Same result as all other golf training aids and lesssons.  Anyone else notice the same?

 

Stack "yardages" are all calculated based on your speeds without a ball (plus roll I believe) which will never carryover to the course at 100%. I average 6MPH slower hitting a ball vs swinging without. That's 19 yards according to the math in the App. 

100MPH swing is going to get you around 250 carry assuming you hit the ball well, there are lots of places where you will not get 30 yards rollout. If you are slicing the ball, hitting down on it, and spinning it too much in general that can easily drop to 220-230. Then subtract 10-20 yards I mentioned about while hitting an actual ball and you are in that 200-220 zone. 

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Halfway through the Foundation program and unfortunately I haven’t seen the progress others have made. I’m a low handicapper who lacks distance. I really like the program so I’m going to keep at it and hopefully see some gains. 

 

BACE6E9C-E5D5-4C0A-A7F0-A504FB7FB8C0.jpeg

Edited by Backofthecup
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18 hours ago, Backofthecup said:

Halfway through the Foundation program and unfortunately I haven’t seen the progress others have made. I’m a low handicapper who lacks distance. I really like the program so I’m going to keep at it and hopefully see some gains. 

 

BACE6E9C-E5D5-4C0A-A7F0-A504FB7FB8C0.jpeg

Post your grit score chart

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The following 2 sessions. Also what is weird is my lowest GRIT score (a week off for vaca) yielded my best session. That doesnt make sense to me. It also tells me I'm making progress because its based off a single session. That is misleading. I am clearly not making progress. On the other hand, I'm driving the ball very well right now, just not far. I do notice that my iron tempo can get a bit fast after starting the program, leading to some inconsistency.

 

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E1240442-3FC2-4E38-A296-F57A5ED6C751.jpeg

Edited by Backofthecup
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Just finished my 3rd foundation session.

 

file.jpeg.6686601076302950ca85a253a62d7cac.jpeg

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On 2/21/2022 at 12:02 PM, Backofthecup said:

The following 2 sessions. Also what is weird is my lowest GRIT score (a week off for vaca) yielded my best session. That doesnt make sense to me. It also tells me I'm making progress because its based off a single session. That is misleading. I am clearly not making progress. On the other hand, I'm driving the ball very well right now, just not far. I do notice that my iron tempo can get a bit fast after starting the program, leading to some inconsistency.

 

Pretty sure it says "making progress" after every session and refers to you progressing through the training program. 

The week off may have been needed for rest and recovery to help you get to that speed, or it may have been warmer than average, or just normal day to day variation. Speed training data from a single session is only so helpful, its more important to look at trends over time. 

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4 hours ago, BMart519 said:

Pretty sure it says "making progress" after every session and refers to you progressing through the training program. 

The week off may have been needed for rest and recovery to help you get to that speed, or it may have been warmer than average, or just normal day to day variation. Speed training data from a single session is only so helpful, its more important to look at trends over time. 

Yes. I did some research and I think fatigue may have set in for me. I was doing the program every other day to earn highest grit score, but I think I'm going to change it up a bit. I seem to have better sessions after a "longer" break.

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Just now, Backofthecup said:

Yes. I did some research and I think fatigue may have set in for me. I was doing the program every other day to earn highest grit score, but I think I'm going to change it up a bit. I seem to have better sessions after a "longer" break.

Your grit stays at 100 if you do it on either of the 2 days listed in your "optimal window" so you can do it every 3rd day and still maintain the score. 

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9 minutes ago, BMart519 said:

Your grit stays at 100 if you do it on either of the 2 days listed in your "optimal window" so you can do it every 3rd day and still maintain the score. 

That's what I'll do then. Appreciate the feedback.

Edited by Backofthecup
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A new convert to the Stack here.  I'm a bit different than most of the people on this thread as I am in my mid-60s and most definitely not swinging the Stack or my driver in the 100s LOL.  Due to a series of unrelated but simultaneous issues, I was unable to touch my golf clubs for the last 2 years after having played regularly for most of my life.  While getting out on the golf course is still not realistic at the moment, I am now able to practice again and am committed to rebuilding my game even if only at a practice facility for now.  I started hitting balls and working on my short game in early January, and acquired the Stack in mid-February.  My realistic goal was to get my driver speed back up to around 95 mph which is about 7-8 mph more than where I found myself in January, and to pick up about 1 club in my irons.

Anyway, my first Stack Foundation session was a bit of an anomaly as it was well above my baseline results.  I returned to my 195g baseline in session 2 and have made steady progress each session thereafter and today in session 6 I finally got over the top of those session #1 numbers and up 6mph from baseline.  That Stack gain appears to be translating to about +1mph gain in my short irons, +1.5mph in my mid-irons and TBD in my driver (after 2 years not swinging a club, I'm still working to get comfortable and consistent with my driver swing).

I find my biggest challenge has been the stress that practicing and using the Stack has had on my core muscles.  I generally have been hitting balls on Monday-Wednesday-Friday since mid-January.  I have experimented with incorporating my Stack training into those practice sessions or alternatively doing the Stack training on the off days.  Either way, I've been struggling to recover between practice sessions and, while I'm not injured, I'm having to work hard to get warmed up on those hitting days.  I think I may try taking the 2nd day of rest between Stack sessions and see if that helps (although it will be a challenge for me to show that level of patience😎).

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just about to finish the Foundation program. Unfortunately I have not seen the gains others have. Its been a little disappointing and weighing on my confidence. Golf game is good otherwise. Should I bother doing another program it recommends or is it something else? Has anyone else been down this road?

PNG image.png

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On 3/1/2022 at 5:48 PM, 88Buster said:

mid-February.  My realistic goal was to get my driver speed back

Keep going!!! Totally normal “progress” and you’re just getting started! I lost 1 MPH after Foundation; now up 10 MPH at end of Neural 1. Trained for CHS in ‘07 (high teens eventually) and saw very nearly the same pattern. It just takes effort over time. Gaining CHS can take several days / weeks / months+ depending on age, overall physical condition at start, height, swing technique, etc. Just Ask DeChambeau. We are not at all the same so guard against giving up way, way too soon. Do not hit balls before a Stack session …. evuh. That wastes anaerobic energy from the fast twitch muscles we’re trying to recruit. Scale way back your range practice sessions… especially with the driver. I’ve added some TRX / wall ball / slam ball exercises to improve strength / power / conditioning post Stack workouts and it has helped me gain CHS. I was a sloth. 

Good info inside the app on blending Stack with other stuff. You can email McKenzie and get a reply as well. All the best.

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On 3/1/2022 at 5:48 PM, 88Buster said:

A new convert to the Stack here.  I'm a bit different than most of the people on this thread as I am in my mid-60s and most definitely not swinging the Stack or my driver in the 100s LOL.  Due to a series of unrelated but simultaneous issues, I was unable to touch my golf clubs for the last 2 years after having played regularly for most of my life.  While getting out on the golf course is still not realistic at the moment, I am now able to practice again and am committed to rebuilding my game even if only at a practice facility for now.  I started hitting balls and working on my short game in early January, and acquired the Stack in mid-February.  My realistic goal was to get my driver speed back up to around 95 mph which is about 7-8 mph more than where I found myself in January, and to pick up about 1 club in my irons.

Anyway, my first Stack Foundation session was a bit of an anomaly as it was well above my baseline results.  I returned to my 195g baseline in session 2 and have made steady progress each session thereafter and today in session 6 I finally got over the top of those session #1 numbers and up 6mph from baseline.  That Stack gain appears to be translating to about +1mph gain in my short irons, +1.5mph in my mid-irons and TBD in my driver (after 2 years not swinging a club, I'm still working to get comfortable and consistent with my driver swing).

I find my biggest challenge has been the stress that practicing and using the Stack has had on my core muscles.  I generally have been hitting balls on Monday-Wednesday-Friday since mid-January.  I have experimented with incorporating my Stack training into those practice sessions or alternatively doing the Stack training on the off days.  Either way, I've been struggling to recover between practice sessions and, while I'm not injured, I'm having to work hard to get warmed up on those hitting days.  I think I may try taking the 2nd day of rest between Stack sessions and see if that helps (although it will be a challenge for me to show that level of patience😎).

Overdoing it physically and training to go slower by hitting a lot of range balls at targets. CHS training has zero to do with accuracy… that’ll come later and besides your swing is changing. Must have adequate recovery time for fast twitch muscles to store anaerobic energy… about 24 hours of rest / non-anaerobic activity. (Think days off for MLB pitchers) Focus on Stack on alternate days and hitting only a few range balls afterwards if you want. No more than a handful of full out rips with driver. Cut down to 24 or so shots in other range practice sessions. Practice in uber slow motion at home in front of a mirror if you wanna work on your swing. All the best. 

Edited by RD McAvoy
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  • 1 month later...

Anyone have any experience with the Full Speed Spectrum program?  I’m only through workout number 2 so it’s obviously too early to draw conclusions, but I’m already noticing less of a drastic change in weight between sets…in other words the underspeed seem to be less under and the overspeed to be less over, if that makes any sense.

87E724F2-0BBE-457B-8795-8239895C0B73.png.8940d71ff3cc604cd77fe4f830d9bc02.png
 

The program description from the website says “This program is well-suited to golfers who currently require a balanced increase in the ability to both apply high levels of force and move quickly.”

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Wedges: :vokey-small:SM9 48 F Grind, 52 F Grind, 56 M Grind, Aerotech Steelfiber i95 Stiff

Putter: :odyssey-small: Sri-Hot 5K Triple Wide, Stroke Lab shaft

Ball: :titelist-small: Pro V1

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11 hours ago, Getoffmylawn said:

Anyone have any experience with the Full Speed Spectrum program?  I’m only through workout number 2 so it’s obviously too early to draw conclusions, but I’m already noticing less of a drastic change in weight between sets…in other words the underspeed seem to be less under and the overspeed to be less over, if that makes any sense.

87E724F2-0BBE-457B-8795-8239895C0B73.png.8940d71ff3cc604cd77fe4f830d9bc02.png
 

The program description from the website says “This program is well-suited to golfers who currently require a balanced increase in the ability to both apply high levels of force and move quickly.”

The program is long and changes a lot. There is a lot of step work in phases 2 and 3. I am just about into phase 4. You get into 85g and 100g weights for the step work. You are still in the baselining phase of "full" speed swings vs all at max effort. 

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  • 1 month later...

So I'm 43 and boneheaded, but my recent Stack experience might be driving home the point that I need to emphasize recovery a lot more than I used to.  Case in point, exhibit A & B below.  As you can see, I went through nearly 2 weeks of mediocre Stack sessions, which coincided with a stretch of 4-5 hours of nightly sleep at best and poor hydration.  I finally got a solid 8 hours in for two nights in a row, laid off the sauce and hydrated, and tada...speed.

261797255_FS1.PNG.3197877211b7b2811bf4bbaf24d49200.PNG

332995983_FS2.PNG.ad6274a074e0c6f7417071601e42b982.PNG

 

Driver: :titleist-small: TSR2, :Fuji:Ventus Blue 6 S, 65g Stiff

FW: :titleist-small: TSR2 3w, 15,  :Fuji:Ventus Blue 7 S, 70g Stiff

Hybrids:  :callaway-small: Apex Pro 3H, :Fuji:Ventus Blue 8 S, 80g Stiff

            :taylormade-small: Stealth DHY 4H, :Fuji:Ventus Blue 8 S, 80g Stiff

Irons: :edel-golf-1: SMS 5-6, SMS Pro 7-PW, Aerotech Steelfiber i95 Stiff

Wedges: :vokey-small:SM9 48 F Grind, 52 F Grind, 56 M Grind, Aerotech Steelfiber i95 Stiff

Putter: :odyssey-small: Sri-Hot 5K Triple Wide, Stroke Lab shaft

Ball: :titelist-small: Pro V1

Click here for my HONMA TR20 Official Review!  :honma:

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13 hours ago, Getoffmylawn said:

So I'm 43 and boneheaded, but my recent Stack experience might be driving home the point that I need to emphasize recovery a lot more than I used to.  Case in point, exhibit A & B below.  As you can see, I went through nearly 2 weeks of mediocre Stack sessions, which coincided with a stretch of 4-5 hours of nightly sleep at best and poor hydration.  I finally got a solid 8 hours in for two nights in a row, laid off the sauce and hydrated, and tada...speed.

Offsets from your resistance training will be another consideration as well. 

:ping-small: G425 MAX Driver & 5W

:cobra-small: Baffler Rail-H 3H-4H

:Sub70: 699 Pro Utility V2 - 4i

:callaway-small: APEX CF19 6-AW

INDI Wedges 52, 56, 60 

 :edel-golf-1: EAS 2.0

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 2/14/2022 at 2:51 PM, BMart519 said:

100MPH swing is going to get you around 250 carry assuming you hit the ball well, there are lots of places where you will not get 30 yards rollout. If you are slicing the ball, hitting down on it, and spinning it too much in general that can easily drop to 220-230. Then subtract 10-20 yards I mentioned about while hitting an actual ball and you are in that 200-220 zone. 

100 MPH swing (148 ball speed) is never going to carry 250 even with perfect launch conditions (check it on flightscope trajectory optimizer).  With a realistic, good launch angle of about 15 deg, you could get 240.  235 I think would be a realistic goal at 100 MPH for a well struck shot at sea level without wind.

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16 minutes ago, Apexhacker said:

100 MPH swing (148 ball speed) is never going to carry 250 even with perfect launch conditions (check it on flightscope trajectory optimizer).  With a realistic, good launch angle of about 15 deg, you could get 240.  235 I think would be a realistic goal at 100 MPH for a well struck shot at sea level without wind.

If you look at trackman number, carry for 100MPH swing is about 247 with optimal conditions (which is around 250).   I played with the flightscope tool and was able to manipulate numbers to get 250 carry with 148 ball speed at sea level. 

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