The Stack System Review and Progress Thread

[MrKSTOKES]

4 minutes ago, WaffleHouseTour said:

New stacker here...

Firsts, impressed with the baseline test and exposure to the AI, and all the built in videos.  Really like the automatic connection to my Mevo+ (seamless).  Surprised at the length of rest time - but given my fumbling attempt to change the weights maybe that is actually a good thing. 

Second, QUESTION I have of you veteran Stackers, if I know life/work is going to get in the way of when the AI tells me I should do my next session - should I do it a day earlier or a day later?  (I was surprised after doing the baseline on Tuesday it is telling me to wait until Friday for my first foundations work out - and know I'll be gone for work...)  

Personally I would always go a day later, app suggests 2 days normally between foundation workouts but you can take 3 without hurting your grit score. (A little extra recovery doesn’t hurt either) 

theres a longer gap between baseline and starting a program as the baseline test is much longer than a normal session. 
if it’s suggesting Friday you wouldn’t have any problem starting it Monday 

[RD McAvoy]

On 3/2/2023 at 1:54 PM, WaffleHouseTour said:

New stacker here...

Firsts, impressed with the baseline test and exposure to the AI, and all the built in videos.  Really like the automatic connection to my Mevo+ (seamless).  Surprised at the length of rest time - but given my fumbling attempt to change the weights maybe that is actually a good thing. 

Second, QUESTION I have of you veteran Stackers, if I know life/work is going to get in the way of when the AI tells me I should do my next session - should I do it a day earlier or a day later?  (I was surprised after doing the baseline on Tuesday it is telling me to wait until Friday for my first foundations work out - and know I'll be gone for work...)  

No! If anything take another day off. The body and brain need the downtime to recover. If you can't find the time to do a complete workout then get a blank shaft and swing that as fast a possible 2 sets of 10 - 12 swings. OR use the Stack with no weights in the same manner. Laying down the neural pathway to fire the fast twitch muscles is actually more important than brute strength. All the best.

Edited March 12, 2023 by RD McAvoy
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[RD McAvoy]

On 2/27/2023 at 6:40 PM, Backofthecup said:

This program definitely does not work for everyone. I haven't had any luck despite being the perfect candidate. I'm over ½ thru the 2nd program and I've had a lot of frustrations with this program. Thinking I've found something and then it quickly fades away. It's a lot of time and investment so think hard before you put the $$$ to invest in this. These gains that people are posting are hard to believe. Don't know anyone that uses it another than our Head Pro. When they baselined his driver speed @ only 96 mph I should have known. Like my mother used to tell me, "If something sounds too good to be true, it usually is".  

The first time I trained for speed in 2007 I failed to see ANY improvement for the first 6+ weeks. Morale: We're all different. While I've no idea your baseline stuff, your swing, heath, history, based on my experience here is what I think could help you. 1) In the APP go into the courses and do the Neural OverDrive course. Do not care about the speed results. 2) Get just a blank drive shaft with a grip preferably a driver or 3 wood shaft without the hosel to attach the clubbed. Cut about an 18" piece of flexibility tubing and slip if over the head end of the shaft so you have sort of a whip. It'll give you just enough resistance to activate your fast twitch muscles. Now, swing this a dozen times as absolutely as fast as possible then hit 10 range balls with your regular driver as fast as possible(do not care where the balls go). Repeat the session three times 3x a week for 3 weeks. Then go back to the Stack and see if you've made any gains. If Yes then continue with the Stack. If No go back to the shaft and driver protocol. Lastly hit your driver at the range as much as possible just as Karl Berkshire says. Eventually you'll improve but you first have to overcome either your mental or physical roadblock. All the best.

On 1/30/2023 at 9:05 PM, Golfing Rabbit said:

Hi, my husband did a session on my profile by mistake, is there a way to remove that? Thanks

 

On 2/22/2023 at 10:47 AM, casey_0507 said:

Just bought The Stack and a older model PRGR Black.  Can't wait to get this started. 

 

 

 

Edited March 12, 2023 by RD McAvoy
Error in response

[RD McAvoy]

16 hours ago, Feynman22 said:

Would echo some of the comments and absolutely combine the stack with some form of golf fitness - e.g. basic compound lifting with some explosive stuff (med ball slams and jumps). I think Medicine ball slams are some of the best bang for buck. You could make great progress with a ball and a set of resistance bands for example.

Worth trying something like FitforGolf for guidance, but there are a number of accounts that share great content on instagram for free (GolfWOD is another one).

I'd also combine it with consulting a pro who understands/specialises in adding distance. I can recommend a number of coaches on skillest who could potentially offer some advice. Without knowing anything about your specific scenario, you could likely add 10mph on easily.

Padraig Harrington is the best example of what's possible. He's added on a lot of speed and distance as he's joined the seniors tour, so age shouldn't be a limiting factor. Incredible what he's done really.

Everyone slows with age because that's what humans do. Yes, one can add back speed at any age (I have) but there are physiological issues that cannot be overcome no matter what. It also takes longer to achieve speed results as well. That said adding strength BEFORE speed training OR in between Stack / lengthy protocols is fine... just not during. Speed training is pretty simple... it's max effort swing reps with alternating over-speed and under-speed aids of some form. In 2007 I used a blank shaft and SwingChains to gain 19 MPH. Today there are a variety of things out there. The Stack is the best because of the app and support not necessarily for the actual regimens. NOTE: When speed training, one SHOULD NOT combine ANYTHING that is not done as bursts either (i.e. reps as many as possible in 30 seconds or 8 - 10 reps in 8 seconds or less), other than flexibility training. Proper speed work as The Stack is doing two things: Laying down neural pathway to fire / sequence the muscles and recruiting Type B or X fast twitch muscles as well as overall strengthening. Lifting or weight room work that requires slow twitch muscles or is aerobic only teaches going slow and doing such will degrade the speed training. One CAN do small parallel things as a few reps of 8 - 10 lb wall ball tosses on an off day or flexibility at any time as tai chi, pilates, MobilityStick work (my personal favorite), yoga. High speed games like ping-pong boxing speed bag prolly won't hurt. Another is swinging a blank shaft 8 - 10 times on off days and this totally supports what The Stack is doing... just don't do more than about 10-12 reps. Avoid any other activity no matter how much sense it might make as It'll just slow progress and results. Have been there since 2007.

I can attest that John Novosel Jr's training works. The Stack does also. Baseball training group Driveline.com is going to get into golf and they have years of training big league hitters / pitchers. Mark Immelmann did a podcast with them in December I believe and it's worth a listen. All the best.

Edited March 3, 2023 by RD McAvoy
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[GolfSpy_APH]

Love to see how this thread as progressed and evolved. I would love to see a full test of all the swing speed systems head to head and see where some thrive for certain golfers or even swing speeds. 

For those who went with stack vs others, what was the tipping point for you?

[MrKSTOKES]

Tried super speed for a while and saw solid results but it never fully transferred to the course. I’ve found the Stack system to be extremely accurate with its estimated speeds (although noticed that it can take a few weeks to achieve an increased estimate with an actual shot) at first I doubted it’s accuracy as the distance potential seemed exaggerated, especially considering what I was used to but i found that hitting balls once a week with almost a long drive attitude saw me match the apps suggested potential within 2-3 yards every single time my distance potential increased.

Hard to doubt the app if you constantly see proof to back it up.

I’ve found it much easier to commit to the stack because of the app, it’s head and shoulders above anything I’ve tried previously, who doesn’t like getting applause for a PB

Now into my 6th month and 3rd program and am so happy I made the commitment, can’t wait for the U.K. golf season to start.

 

 

[MIHIGO26]

Baseline and first couple of foundation settings done. I like the way it structures things for me, rather than me figuring that out myself, huge bonus. Already starting to see some wear on the grip itself though, which might be a little concerning longer term.

However on the plus side...

Baseline session - Have to admit I wasn't really feeling fully energetic and was anxious doing it at the range and got some funny looks but carried on regardless. Future sessions will be done in the garden.

Spoiler

After session one - Pleasantly surprised to see an increase mostly across the board, but I guess I could have been slightly more energetic that day and comfortable doing it in the garden rather than at the driving range. But hey progress is progress and I'm just looking for reasons to dispute the increase.

Spoiler

Session 2 - More increases in speed - Have began trying to weight shift a little more obviously and relax the arms a bit better.

Spoiler

 

Overall thoughts so far on the little evidence I have -

Pleased to see increases, although I have been going full intent on every single swing. I think energy levels play a part and will be interested to see how that goes alongside increases/plateaus over the piece. Really like the structure of the programs and the app itself once you get used to it. Telling the app the speed is a pretty cool feature although it does pick me up wrong sometimes (must be the Scottish accent ).

Time will tell if I'll see results on the course but it's heartening to know I am getting quicker already. Ultimately where it matters most on the grass is where I'll make a fair judgement. I have ShotScope tags also and track most of my rounds so I'll be able to tell that way in terms of numbers and also visually.

Impressed so far but remain slightly cautious until I see results on the course.

[MIHIGO26]

3 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

Love to see how this thread as progressed and evolved. I would love to see a full test of all the swing speed systems head to head and see where some thrive for certain golfers or even swing speeds. 

For those who went with stack vs others, what was the tipping point for you?

For me personally it was the structure and quality of the app. The fact the app tells you what to do suits me perfectly, where as if I didn't have that structure I'd have no idea what to do really. Expensive? Yes. Risky purchase in terms of cost v result? Possibly. But so far I am delighted with my purchase. If at the end of this program I see results on the course then for me it's been a big success.

I am also about to combine it with a gym program (I used to workout 4 times a week but I've let that slide since about July last year) and have barely stepped in a gym since. Have subscribed to Fit For Golf and going to go through those programs which will no doubt help.

 

[WaffleHouseTour]

14 hours ago, RD McAvoy said:

Avoid any other activity no matter how much sense it might make as It'll just slow progress and results. Have been there since 2007.

So you are saying avoid other regular exercise - like doing an elliptical machine which I use every morning - while doing the Stack because it activates the “slow” muscles? 
 

im afraid if I do that I’ll gain fifteen pounds again…

[Feynman22]

I think training along side speed training is shown to work for a lot of people. The key is to be fully recovered and fresh for the speed training.

You'll see trainers recommend doing the Stack work first then working out afterwards on the same day. Then you take 48-72 rest and go again. Worth pointing out high amounts of cardio will not help speed though. Majority of the work should be strength and power based.

I'd defer to what Sasho or someone like Mike Carroll from Fitforgolf says over random forum posts though, so don't take my word for it. 

[GolfSpy AFG]

8 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

Love to see how this thread as progressed and evolved. I would love to see a full test of all the swing speed systems head to head and see where some thrive for certain golfers or even swing speeds. 

For those who went with stack vs others, what was the tipping point for you?

AI AI AI.

SuperSpeed works, some, but it's basically just 3 different sticks and a one-size fits all training program.  The Stack System is 30 different weight combination possibilities, prescribed by AI that tailors and adapts the training to the individual user...optimized training vs one-size-fits-all.  

 

It's really not a competition, the only real knock against the Stack is a higher price point and the fact that you have to have a radar for it to work.  I'd argue you need a radar for SuperSpeed too, but it's not technically a requirement.

One more reminder for the masses, I spent a little more time on this subject in a separate thread:

 

[ejgaudette]

3 hours ago, WaffleHouseTour said:

So you are saying avoid other regular exercise - like doing an elliptical machine which I use every morning - while doing the Stack because it activates the “slow” muscles? 
 

im afraid if I do that I’ll gain fifteen pounds again…

I run and do speed training and ft for golf right now. Sure it can slow the progress some but you are still likely to make progress. Sure for optimal results most recommend doing speed training then same day you weight/explosive training in the gym. Then a day off full or two as you need then back to a training day. Gotta find what works for you. Personally I am OK with slightly slower progress because I love running and other activities and if that means I only gain 10 instead of 15 mph or it takes me an extra year to get to 15 mph gains then so be it. I am going to enjoy myself more personally.

[GolfSpy AFG]

3 hours ago, WaffleHouseTour said:

So you are saying avoid other regular exercise - like doing an elliptical machine which I use every morning - while doing the Stack because it activates the “slow” muscles? 
 

im afraid if I do that I’ll gain fifteen pounds again…

 

3 hours ago, Feynman22 said:

I think training along side speed training is shown to work for a lot of people. The key is to be fully recovered and fresh for the speed training.

You'll see trainers recommend doing the Stack work first then working out afterwards on the same day. Then you take 48-72 rest and go again. Worth pointing out high amounts of cardio will not help speed though. Majority of the work should be strength and power based.

I'd defer to what Sasho or someone like Mike Carroll from Fitforgolf says over random forum posts though, so don't take my word for it. 

I would 100% disagree with the notion that you can't do other forms of strength training or aerobic training while in a speed training program, so long as you properly rest and recover from both.  My Stack training sessions are Monday Wednesday and Friday, and after each Stack session I hit the gym for 90 minutes.  Those 90 minute workouts start with explosive movements (jumps, ball slams, etc) and then move to heavy free weights.  I'm getting faster.  It can be done.

[snaphooks]

On 2/25/2023 at 11:27 AM, Getoffmylawn said:

First, welcome to the forum!  I encourage you to stick around, build up your profile with a picture and introduce yourself, and dig in...this is a great place for golf knowledge and camaraderie!

I'm in no position to tell you why or validate your hypothesis, but I will tell you that training with the Stack helps me swing with more intent on the course, and when I do that I have less time to let conscious swing thoughts get in the way of an athletic motion.  Hope that makes sense...?

And if you do pull the trigger on the Stack, message a Stack user on this thread and get a referral code from them...saves you $50, and they get referral credit.

I'm about ready to pull the trigger on Stack and PRGR.  Anyone have a referral codes for either?  I tried messaging a couple of you directly but the forum says you can't receive messages.

Michael W

[Feynman22]

2 hours ago, snaphooks said:

I'm about ready to pull the trigger on Stack and PRGR.  Anyone have a referral codes for either?  I tried messaging a couple of you directly but the forum says you can't receive messages.

Michael W

It says you can't receive messages as tried to send you a referral code. Happy to post link here if that works?

[RD McAvoy]

On 3/3/2023 at 11:40 AM, Getoffmylawn said:

 

I would 100% disagree with the notion that you can't do other forms of strength training or aerobic training while in a speed training program, so long as you properly rest and recover from both.  My Stack training sessions are Monday Wednesday and Friday, and after each Stack session I hit the gym for 90 minutes.  Those 90 minute workouts start with explosive movements (jumps, ball slams, etc) and then move to heavy free weights.  I'm getting faster.  It can be done.

I never said you "can't"; I said you shouldn't because once anaerobic storage capacity is exhausted — approx 6 minutes worth over 24 hours, with 24 hours to fully recover —- you’re in an aerobic state…. actually training slow twitch muscles v recruiting fast twitch. The very first energy stores the body uses up is the anaerobic stores. The main issue is, unless one keeps very close track of the time element most folks will be totally unaware they've shifted into aerobic work... until they notice fatigue which is way, way too late for speed training. There IS some anecdotal evidence that power lifting can benefit speed training but I'm unaware of any professional org that advocates that for speed work. 

Aerobic work of any type is the exact opposite intent of the specificity of speed training. Not saying you aren’t supporting improving speed or your body overall or adding slow twitch muscle or strength as there are overlaps in any non-isolated muscle training. It greatly depends on individual PHYSIOLOGY prior to speed training. If one is highly athletic or in great shape some differences may not be readily apparent. I think jumping or wall-ball is not aerobic in general but If you’re doing free weights, which are generally aerobic in nature, you're likely to degrade speed training results. Doing everything in bursts is the best general policy. All of my knowledge is based upon work done by the USOC commonly referred as “The Bat Speed Study” and well documented in numerous academic publications. The Institutes of Sport in Australia and Sweden have years of data as does the old East Germans and Russians who did this in the 1950's. Kelvin Miahira in Hawaii was a brilliant source from his studies at the U. of Ha. Plenty of other sources if one seeks them out. All the best.

Edited March 12, 2023 by RD McAvoy

[RD McAvoy]

10 hours ago, WaffleHouseTour said:

So you are saying avoid other regular exercise - like doing an elliptical machine which I use every morning - while doing the Stack because it activates the “slow” muscles? 
 

im afraid if I do that I’ll gain fifteen pounds again…

Apologies for the length here. So I was only referring to weight work mentioned in the replied to thread not general exercise. High paced aerobic fitness activities like walking, running, skipping rope, etc. are fine especially on off days... actually full body burst training is Ok as well (like box jumps, skipping rope, etc. post Stack sessions or on off days) I use an older Nordic Track Skier every day or sometimes walk for 20 min prior to a Stack session to loosen up.

Physiology: Fast twitch muscle energy is stored within the fast twitch fibers themselves unlike slow twitch muscles that utilize energy from breaking down fat into glycogen (sugar) for energy. There are two types of fast twitch fiber: A and B or often referred to as X. Those A/X specific fibers are uniquely switchable and will behave as slow twitch if not retained or recruited in a burst training method or continually used in a burst format. Fast twitch muscles are anaerobic and have only approx 5-8 minutes / 24 hrs or less of energy storage. Once anaerobic capacity is exhausted the body shifts into aerobic training mode and begins recruiting slow twitch muscle. This is the exact opposite of what we want. This recruitment of A/X is what’s really going on with speed training, as well as laying down neural pathways, as the human doesn’t really increase the volume of fast twitch fiber. We're trying to turn aerobic behaving fast twitch fiber off and train it behave as fast twitch. Think of a pitcher losing ball velocity in late innings as they exhaust their fast twitch muscle energy. We want a full energy tank when we train to maximize results.

Advise not to hit golf balls before a speed session. You can afterwards but limit it to approx 25 balls. Again, you do not want to do anything that retrains the type B/X muscle to act as slow twitch once the anaerobic energy stores are degraded. Limited pull-ups or push-ups on off days are Ok but done rapidly (bursts) as described. Low weight (6-10 lbs) one or two 8 rep Wall-ball sessions are my favorite off day training as it addresses all of the same muscles groups plus balance work as in the golf golf swing. Not a fan of swinging a heavy or weighted clubs as it’s critical to allow the shoulder rotator cuffs and upper back muscles to rest and recover between sessions. That’s what the Stack session is for. 

Last thing: I’ve recently become a big fan of StickMobility. Been very surprised at the increases in range of motion, less post workout aches, and ease of use. I tested / used a closet rod for a few weeks before buying the Sticks (use the purchase code: on the mark for a couple of free golf training classes) and you can also find bamboo sticks, used for centuries in Asia, on Amazon. Been all around speed training for 16 years and happy to share what I’ve learned but new things are discovered every day. Hope this helps. All the best.

Edited March 3, 2023 by RD McAvoy

[casey_0507]

In case any veterans are in here. Reach out to stack and ask for veterans discount. They'll ask for proof and then provide code. Was by far best discount I've seen 

[GolfSpy AFG]

6 hours ago, RD McAvoy said:

I never said you "can't"; I said you shouldn't because once anaerobic storage capacity is exhausted — approx 6 minutes worth over 24 hours, with 24 hours to fully recover —- you’re in an aerobic state…. actually training slow twitch muscles v recruiting fast twitch. The main issue is, unless one keeps very close track of the time element most folks will be totally unaware they've shifted into aerobic work... until they notice fatigue which is way, way too late for speed training. There IS some anecdotal evidence that power lifting can benefit speed training but I'm unaware of any professional org that advocates that for speed work. 

Aerobic work of any type is the exact opposite intent of the specificity of speed training. Not saying you aren’t supporting improving speed or your body overall or adding slow twitch muscle or strength as there are overlaps in any non-isolated muscle training. It greatly depends on individual PHYSIOLOGY prior to speed training. If one is highly athletic or in great shape some differences may not be readily apparent. I think jumping or wall-ball is not aerobic in general but If you’re doing free weights, which are generally aerobic in nature, you're likely to degrade speed training results. Doing everything in bursts is the best general policy. All of my knowledge is based upon work done by the USOC commonly referred as “The Bat Speed Study” and well documented in numerous academic publications. The Institutes of Sport in Australia and Sweden have years of data as does the old East Germans and Russians who did this in the 1950's. Kelvin Miahira in Hawaii was a brilliant source from his studies at the U. of Ha. Plenty of other sources if one seeks them out. All the best.

We’re going to have to agree to disagree here apparently.  The world’s foremost golf biomechanics expert, literally nicknamed “the savant of speed,” designed speed training workouts that can take 20-25 minutes when done correctly, which would fly in the face of the 6-minute limitation you’re espousing here.  Also, weight training is a decidedly anaerobic activity, not aerobic. 
I could continue but I’ve no desire to.  Again, we’re very much in agree to disagree territory here.

[Feynman22]

On 3/4/2023 at 5:39 AM, Getoffmylawn said:

We’re going to have to agree to disagree here apparently.  The world’s foremost golf biomechanics expert, literally nicknamed “the savant of speed,” designed speed training workouts that can take 20-25 minutes when done correctly, which would fly in the face of the 6-minute limitation you’re espousing here.  Also, weight training is a decidedly anaerobic activity, not aerobic. 
I could continue but I’ve no desire to.  Again, we’re very much in agree to disagree territory here.

Completely agree. And to add to that, Sasho has said himself he lifts weights for approx 25 mins before his stack workouts to get himself warmed up. 

I simply think about it like this, if all other variables remain the same - so your swing technique, hand path length etc. - but suddenly you are able to apply a greater force, your swing speed is higher. 

Working on strength and power in the gym allows you to do exactly that. Picture squats and jumping to help with pushing off the ground with the lead foot, lat pulldowns, rows + med ball slams to increase how hard you can pull the shaft in the downswing etc.

If done correctly, there is no way it does not help with swing speed goals longterm, but again I'd recommend everyone deferring to Sasho for this info vs forum posts as I may be misquoting. I just have a basic working knowledge from listening to podcasts/vids and working with coaches. 

Edited March 5, 2023 by Feynman22

[Feynman22]

Update after the latest session. I've maxed out at 115 before with driver on Trackman so I'm interested to see what this means when visiting the range later. I haven't hit any balls for a few weeks now.

Also as mentioned, I struggled initially swinging flat out without a ball, so the gains are definitely a bit exaggerated. Longterm would love to get to 120+ to allow a gaming speed of 115ish. That would be a completely different game to when I was around 100-105ish in rounds.

[MIHIGO26]

Couple more sessions in the bag. Impressed with the results, can only hope some of this translates to the course by the end of the program. I didn't realise there was a difference between full and max intent and have been going 'max intent' for every session. In fairness I tend to go for full/max intent on the course anyway. Maybe a learning curve for me there. Is it worth changing or just cracking on with max intent?

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

[Feynman22]

12 minutes ago, MIHIGO26 said:

Couple more sessions in the bag. Impressed with the results, can only hope some of this translates to the course by the end of the program. I didn't realise there was a difference between full and max intent and have been going 'max intent' for every session. In fairness I tend to go for full/max intent on the course anyway. Maybe a learning curve for me there. Is it worth changing or just cracking on with max intent?

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I'd continue on with the Max swings if you're able to/ aren't feeling sore etc. In Phase 3 of Foundations it becomes all Max swings actually.

Sasho said the reason it doesn't start this way is simply to ease people into it/prevent injury. The Stack work is basically a gym exercise - going flat out is really needed to push the envelope.

[GolfSpy AFG]

19 minutes ago, MIHIGO26 said:

Couple more sessions in the bag. Impressed with the results, can only hope some of this translates to the course by the end of the program. I didn't realise there was a difference between full and max intent and have been going 'max intent' for every session. In fairness I tend to go for full/max intent on the course anyway. Maybe a learning curve for me there. Is it worth changing or just cracking on with max intent?

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I would just follow the program going forward.  You basically just increased your injury risk by going right to max swings, but sounds like you came out of that okay.

As for on course, nobody swings as fast on course as they do in speed training, even with the same intent.  The fact is the collision with the ball slows you down some at impact.  The main goodness of training at max intent is raising your overall speed potential, which in turn raises your "gamer speed" as well.

[WaffleHouseTour]

I'm a newbie - only four session in and haven't been asked for a MAX intent yet - but I've wondered myself / moderately confused by what is FULL intent and MAX intent.  Listening to the in app video by Sasho the difference seems to be am I able to stay in balance.  I've always thought the rule of thumb was to swing at 80%... so is 100% my Full intent swing or my Max swing... It's a feel thing - probably different for everyone.  

[GolfSpy AFG]

16 minutes ago, WaffleHouseTour said:

I'm a newbie - only four session in and haven't been asked for a MAX intent yet - but I've wondered myself / moderately confused by what is FULL intent and MAX intent.  Listening to the in app video by Sasho the difference seems to be am I able to stay in balance.  I've always thought the rule of thumb was to swing at 80%... so is 100% my Full intent swing or my Max swing... It's a feel thing - probably different for everyone.  

My two cents:  Full intent should be the hardest you would ever swing on the course...think of it like your max gamer swing. Max intent should be so much all out effort that you're risking your balance.  For me, max intent is all-out not just in effort, but maximizing the end range-of-motion in the backswing...left heel lift, max hip turn, max shoulder turn, max hand path, then a coming-out-of-my-shoes downswing that I couldn't reasonably take to the course and expect solid contact.

Hope that helps a little.

[MIHIGO26]

6 hours ago, Feynman22 said:

I'd continue on with the Max swings if you're able to/ aren't feeling sore etc. In Phase 3 of Foundations it becomes all Max swings actually.

Sasho said the reason it doesn't start this way is simply to ease people into it/prevent injury. The Stack work is basically a gym exercise - going flat out is really needed to push the envelope.

 

6 hours ago, Getoffmylawn said:

I would just follow the program going forward.  You basically just increased your injury risk by going right to max swings, but sounds like you came out of that okay.

As for on course, nobody swings as fast on course as they do in speed training, even with the same intent.  The fact is the collision with the ball slows you down some at impact.  The main goodness of training at max intent is raising your overall speed potential, which in turn raises your "gamer speed" as well.

 I'm fairly young and healthy and active so not too concerned about injuries, if I felt something was off that way I'd stop.  I'm not really feeling 'it' the day after the swings like I would a gym session. I'm giving the swings everything I can with each and every one and haven't lost balance once.

I perhaps need to read more into swing intensity or ask my coach about it, as I've never realised it was even a thing to be honest.

Edited March 8, 2023 by MIHIGO26

[mexgolf]

Anyone have any thoughts on why air swings with a driver are much faster than normal swings with a ball? Air is 119-120 vs. 109-110 with a ball.

I’ve been doing the Stack now consistently for a few months and have definitely seen gains. They just don’t seem to transfer to swings WITH a ball.

Both swings are with “full intent.”

There’s just something about having the ball in front of me that significantly slows me down.

[edingc]

12 hours ago, mexgolf said:

Anyone have any thoughts on why air swings with a driver are much faster than normal swings with a ball? Air is 119-120 vs. 109-110 with a ball.

I’ve been doing the Stack now consistently for a few months and have definitely seen gains. They just don’t seem to transfer to swings WITH a ball.

Both swings are with “full intent.”

There’s just something about having the ball in front of me that significantly slows me down.

It's always easier to swing faster when there's no concept of direction. 

My suggestion would be to dedicate 10-15 balls at the range swinging as fast as you can without worrying about where the ball goes. Eventually you will start to find the combination of speed/direction.

I've been swing speed training for almost four years now and I still do not have a 1:1 no ball/with ball swing speed ratio. But I'm a lot closer than I used to be.

[GolfSpy AFG]

12 hours ago, mexgolf said:

Anyone have any thoughts on why air swings with a driver are much faster than normal swings with a ball? Air is 119-120 vs. 109-110 with a ball.

I’ve been doing the Stack now consistently for a few months and have definitely seen gains. They just don’t seem to transfer to swings WITH a ball.

Both swings are with “full intent.”

There’s just something about having the ball in front of me that significantly slows me down.

The "why" this happens is two-fold.  1, your training swings at max intent have no consequence so it's truly just a "swing fast" swing, whereas your intent changes to make solid contact...that will inevitably cause a slower swing, which @edingcrefers to with regards to how to train to close the gap. 2, the collision with the ball does have a measurable consequence of slowing down the clubhead.