The Stack System Review and Progress Thread

[MrKSTOKES]

On 5/9/2023 at 3:01 AM, DonnieGolfs said:

Has anyone done the putting beta? I plan to start it this weekend and was looking for any insights? Course 2 blocks away has a large putting area.

Plan to start using it but struggling for time at the moment with a hectic tournament schedule. Been listening to the Chasing Scratch podcast (highly recommend, extremely funny) and they rate it very highly

[DonnieGolfs]

41 minutes ago, MrKSTOKES said:

Plan to start using it but struggling for time at the moment with a hectic tournament schedule. Been listening to the Chasing Scratch podcast (highly recommend, extremely funny) and they rate it very highly

They're big reason I gave the stack a shot, that's why I'm curious about the putting, outside of them I haven't heard much from anyone using it. And I agree, it's my go to golf podcast.

[Jlocke22]

14 minutes ago, DonnieGolfs said:

They're big reason I gave the stack a shot, that's why I'm curious about the putting, outside of them I haven't heard much from anyone using it. And I agree, it's my go to golf podcast.

Only used twice so far. Been eye opening on speed and great to keep you focused and hitting different putts. Improved in strokes gained greatly after two sessions. Hopefully that continues. 

[MIHIGO26]

One session to go which will be on Wednesday. Trackman booked for an hour on Friday to compare and contrast with things from now, earlier this year and 2022. Learned a thing today, I don't need to have my feet all over the place lifting up and jumping to gain speed - it made zero difference for me.

[Feynman22]

5 hours ago, DonnieGolfs said:

They're big reason I gave the stack a shot, that's why I'm curious about the putting, outside of them I haven't heard much from anyone using it. And I agree, it's my go to golf podcast.

Enjoy that one as well. Another one I've been enjoying recently is the Hack it Out podcast with Mark Crossfield. They just started a series on gaining distance incidentally.

[Hoyoymac]

11th session of the Foundation program complete.  Got a few single speed personal bests today.  Glad to see my Stack speeding coming back up too.

 

[Backofthecup]

Nice work! Our numbers are about the same. Those eDistance & eSpeed numbers are so inflated it's scary, so be prepared when you hit the course.

Edited May 16, 2023 by Backofthecup

[Feynman22]

The eSpeed number is definitely an all out max air swing with driver for me. I just about get close to it doing that. Hitting a ball I'm maxing out around 3-5mph lower with my on course gamer swing being another 3mph or so below this again. I've heard Sasho talk about being able to reduce that gap, but haven't done any work on it specifically yet.

I purposefully ignore the Distance potential number though as I think it's not really relevant, especially where I play. Hugely dependent on strike etc as well. It's more a case of just seeing the other metrics continue to go up is where I'm interested.

[DonnieGolfs]

3 hours ago, Feynman22 said:

The eSpeed number is definitely an all out max air swing with driver for me. I just about get close to it doing that. Hitting a ball I'm maxing out around 3-5mph lower with my on course gamer swing being another 3mph or so below this again. I've heard Sasho talk about being able to reduce that gap, but haven't done any work on it specifically yet.

I purposefully ignore the Distance potential number though as I think it's not really relevant, especially where I play. Hugely dependent on strike etc as well. It's more a case of just seeing the other metrics continue to go up is where I'm interested.

You might be over swinging during the workout, it's going off assuming your swing during the workout is your stock swing. Unless it says max, I'm not 100% sure but I think that could be why it is slightly faster than your course driver swing.

[Backofthecup]

3 hours ago, Feynman22 said:

The eSpeed number is definitely an all out max air swing with driver for me. I just about get close to it doing that. Hitting a ball I'm maxing out around 3-5mph lower with my on course gamer swing being another 3mph or so below this again. I've heard Sasho talk about being able to reduce that gap, but haven't done any work on it specifically yet.

I purposefully ignore the Distance potential number though as I think it's not really relevant, especially where I play. Hugely dependent on strike etc as well. It's more a case of just seeing the other metrics continue to go up is where I'm interested.

My numbers correlate like this. My max intent Stack Speed (195g) equates to my driver full speed on course with ball, which for me is 94-96mph. I haven't been able to break through especially on the course. I'm really curious to hear other numbers from other Stackers.

[Hoyoymac]

My on course performance has definitely improved.  Driver is longer for sure, but so are my other clubs.  Irons are about a half club longer right now.

[DonnieGolfs]

1 hour ago, Hoyoymac said:

My on course performance has definitely improved.  Driver is longer for sure, but so are my other clubs.  Irons are about a half club longer right now.

I also found my grouping is tighter, I'm further with all my clubs and my swing is more effortless which is giving me more consistent contact. 

[MIHIGO26]

And my final session of the foundation program is COMPLETE. Progress check to come in a couple days followed by a Trackman session to see if there's any actual speed gains. Like I say, it's ruined what ball striking I had and I am now shooting horrible scores because I can't hit the ball. Is that worth it for potentially a few extra yards? Not in my head. So I better have gained a decent amount for it to be worthwhile.

 

[edingc]

My on course results continue to validate the effectiveness of The Stack. While I'm not where near my top speeds I saw indoors over the winter, my floor is definitely higher. Additionally, I'm impressed at how much my mechanics have improved as a result of the training as well. Perhaps the shorter club length is better at that than the longer length of the SuperSpeed or Rypstick that I had used before.

My tee game has started to round into form, and the improvement really shows itself when I get onto dry, fast courses where I get a more realistic amount of roll. I am usually a dew sweeper and the fairways at my home course are long, wet and slow. I played elsewhere the last two days in the afternoon/evening, and had several 290+ yard drives, including one last night that played slightly downhill and rolled out to 315-ish. 

[Feynman22]

16 hours ago, DonnieGolfs said:

You might be over swinging during the workout, it's going off assuming your swing during the workout is your stock swing. Unless it says max, I'm not 100% sure but I think that could be why it is slightly faster than your course driver swing.

It's really key you swing absolutely flat out to get the most benefit. Sasho says not doing this is one of the biggest reasons people don't make progress or stall. I actually struggle to go full out Max swings - as you should be at risk of and sometimes actually lose your balance if pushing hard enough.

I rarely manage this but a combination of swing stuff, gym work and Stack sessions is still showing steady progress for now, so I'll pay more attention to it once it stalls.

Edited May 17, 2023 by Feynman22

[Feynman22]

6 hours ago, MIHIGO26 said:

And my final session of the foundation program is COMPLETE. Progress check to come in a couple days followed by a Trackman session to see if there's any actual speed gains. Like I say, it's ruined what ball striking I had and I am now shooting horrible scores because I can't hit the ball. Is that worth it for potentially a few extra yards? Not in my head. So I better have gained a decent amount for it to be worthwhile.

 

With your strike problems, do you see any pattern? For example, do you catch it low on the face (thin with irons) or out the toe as a general rule? If that was the case it could be you are setting up too far from the ball, or ball position could have crept too far forward etc.

I recently had to adjust myself as I was losing a tonne of distance to strike. If you don't know the pattern, definitely get some foot spray and spray the club face to gather some data. Then it could be a really simple adjustment 

[Jlocke22]

22 hours ago, Feynman22 said:

The eSpeed number is definitely an all out max air swing with driver for me. I just about get close to it doing that. Hitting a ball I'm maxing out around 3-5mph lower with my on course gamer swing being another 3mph or so below this again. I've heard Sasho talk about being able to reduce that gap, but haven't done any work on it specifically yet.

I purposefully ignore the Distance potential number though as I think it's not really relevant, especially where I play. Hugely dependent on strike etc as well. It's more a case of just seeing the other metrics continue to go up is where I'm interested.

Yes - the highest eSpeed I have achieved was 128 mph and did hit that once after that session. Hit 127 eSpeed multiple times and same with maxed out air swings. 

Distance Potential - set at 90 degrees, optimal launch, 1,000 ft above sea level. Going to be inflated for many

18 hours ago, Backofthecup said:

My numbers correlate like this. My max intent Stack Speed (195g) equates to my driver full speed on course with ball, which for me is 94-96mph. I haven't been able to break through especially on the course. I'm really curious to hear other numbers from other Stackers.

195 g 113-117 mph range over past month or so.

eSpeed - 124-128 mph - Air Swings correlate 

"Cruising Speed" 118-120 ish. 123.8 mph highest on Trackman and 184.8 Ball Speed are highest. 

1 hour ago, Feynman22 said:

It's really key you swing absolutely flat out to get the most benefit. Sasho says not doing this is one of the biggest reasons people don't make progress or stall. I actually struggle to go full out Max swings - as you should be at risk of and sometimes actually lose your balance if pushing hard enough.

I rarely manage this but a combination of swing stuff, gym work and Stack sessions is still showing steady progress for now, so I'll pay more attention to it once it stalls.

THIS! Beat that number and push yourself. Just like in the gym, if you do the same weight/reps every session you will get nowhere. This winter I was swinging that sucker as hard as possible and holding on for dear life so I didn't send it through the garage door. Have to mix it up and what I like to say, "Squeeze out the suck!" 

I don't care if it is one single swing PR at 65 grams thatI haven't swung in 5 sessions. A win, is a win, and I know I am making progress long term. 

Side Note that I think many also neglect: You will have to recheck launch conditions as speed increases for optimal spin, launch, etc. Stuff can get wonky fast. 

[MIHIGO26]

2 hours ago, Feynman22 said:

With your strike problems, do you see any pattern? For example, do you catch it low on the face (thin with irons) or out the toe as a general rule? If that was the case it could be you are setting up too far from the ball, or ball position could have crept too far forward etc.

I recently had to adjust myself as I was losing a tonne of distance to strike. If you don't know the pattern, definitely get some foot spray and spray the club face to gather some data. Then it could be a really simple adjustment 

It's all a bit of a mess. Look, it was never great before - I am a 16 handicap after all. But that is now already climbing since the speed training and I am now approaching 18. I'm getting worse. There's no light at the end of the tunnel so far.

I got my swing with each club analysed off a pro on Skillest last week. To summarize: Trail leg locks out - too much hip depth.  Feet are too active and lifting off the ground - weight distribution is all over the place, flipping at impact, early extension, toe strikes, heel strikes. Swinging out to in. Overswing/Overrotation in the backswing. 

They have given me drills, some have been succesful but there has been no improvement where it matters yet. 

[Backofthecup]

My handicap is going up with no end in sight. Pretty much coincided when I started Speed Training over a year ago. It has without a doubt caused several issues. My iron play has never been this bad. Whatever minimal gains I may have picked up are offset by poor ball-striking. I've gone from a +1.1 to a 3.0 and just getting killed at my course. . 

Edited May 18, 2023 by Backofthecup

[Jlocke22]

2 hours ago, Backofthecup said:

My handicap is going up with no end in sight. Pretty much coincided when I started Speed Training over a year ago. It has without a doubt caused several issues. My iron play has never been this bad. Whatever minimal gains I may have picked up are offset by poor ball-striking. I've gone from a +1.1 to a 3.0 and just getting killed at my course. Using the Stack system has be regrettable. It may work for some (I've yet to witness one person that has benefited from this program) but it certainly can do much more harm the help. 

I mean “yet to witness one person benefit” is a bit extreme. I’m sure Matt Fitzpatrick doing it on the range of the Masters and between rounds 3 and 4 of his RBC win would like to have a word. On top of Viktor Hovland and multiple other pros. I’m no truther by any means but have jumped multiple MPH cruising speed across the board already being high speed. Yes, there is a learning curve for your body and mechanics as well as most likely an update to update to clubs for optimal/launch and spin. 
 

Rory has stated multiple issue adjusting to speed training as well as Padraig and many others. Just doesn’t happen over night. 

[Backofthecup]

12 minutes ago, Jlocke22 said:

I mean “yet to witness one person benefit” is a bit extreme. I’m sure Matt Fitzpatrick doing it on the range of the Masters and between rounds 3 and 4 of his RBC win would like to have a word. On top of Viktor Hovland and multiple other pros. I’m no truther by any means but have jumped multiple MPH cruising speed across the board already being high speed. Yes, there is a learning curve for your body and mechanics as well as most likely an update to update to clubs for optimal/launch and spin. 
 

Rory has stated multiple issue adjusting to speed training as well as Padraig and many others. Just doesn’t happen over night. 

Yes. I feel the mechanics take you at least a step back, if not two. I'm not looking for an overnight success. Like I said I've been doing this over a year. Please tell me, what is the timeframe?

[Jlocke22]

I have no idea. Didn’t mean to come off so negative - I’m in similar boat. Jason Day just come out yesterday saying it took him over a year to make small swing changes. I’m with you though - played D2 once upon a time, always solid with wedges and iron striking and sucked at Driving. It has changed for the better in some instances, iron distances have increased, but distance control more than anything is suffering and obviously hurting scores on my end. I started to develop a very wide late hinge with collapsing arms at the top that turned into early extending. So much I burnt a hole through my tennis shoes that I used for Stack Sessions….

So I am working through some things as well. I just chalk it up to ebbs and flows and taking the journey. Just meant to say that it is working for a bunch of people, just depends on parameters. 

[MrKSTOKES]

9 hours ago, Backofthecup said:

My handicap is going up with no end in sight. Pretty much coincided when I started Speed Training over a year ago. It has without a doubt caused several issues. My iron play has never been this bad. Whatever minimal gains I may have picked up are offset by poor ball-striking. I've gone from a +1.1 to a 3.0 and just getting killed at my course. Using the Stack system has be regrettable. It may work for some (I've yet to witness one person that has benefited from this program) but it certainly can do much more harm the help. 

I can vouch for its success, it clearly hasn’t been working for you but to say no one has benefited from using it comes across like extremely sour grapes.

to deny extra speed isn’t a benefit is ludicrous.

extra speed on top of swing issues could cause major problems, that seems obvious.

you keep stating that your max swing doesn’t match you on course swing, which as I’ve already pointed out makes me question your understanding of speed training?

your max swing is just a glimpse into how you COULD swing it on the course if you continue the training and your speed keeps increasing until your old max becomes your game swing.

apologies if this comes across as a dig, it isn’t but you keep lashing out at a product because it hasn’t worked for you and your comments suggest you either don’t understand speed training or there’s swing issues.

from memory when Sasho reviewed one of your swings and said you weren’t swinging with enough effort your reply was that your friends said you were swinging out your shoes, if you want to take your friends opinion over one of the worlds leading experts then speed training probably isn’t for you and just go play and have fun at this point

[Hoyoymac]

For those of you struggling with ball contact after swing speed training I can only imagine how frustrating that would be.  Hopefully you get things dialed back in.

My experience is the opposite. Swing speed training has given my game a needed boost.   Hitting the tee ball great.  Hitting my irons flush.  Handicap going back down.

Had several personal bests again today with a big jump using the 45g weight. +5mph today.

The last few sessions I’ve warmed up by doing an Orange Whip GFX program using the Lightspeed club.  Then followed immediately by the Stack System workout.

 

[Feynman22]

On 5/17/2023 at 11:01 PM, Backofthecup said:

My handicap is going up with no end in sight. Pretty much coincided when I started Speed Training over a year ago. It has without a doubt caused several issues. My iron play has never been this bad. Whatever minimal gains I may have picked up are offset by poor ball-striking. I've gone from a +1.1 to a 3.0 and just getting killed at my course. . 

I think it's a slight misunderstanding of speed training at this point if you've seen no or limited progress in a year.

I would recommend seeking out podcasts with Sasho  (he's been on chasing scratch, Hack it out, Fit4 Golf and loads more) and also check out the Vimeo videos you find on the Stack website. Also I'd seriously consider some coaching with coaches who understand or specialise in distance - for example a few good options on Skillest would be Scott Borrowman, Steve Furlonger, Jonathon Staton. Without proper coaching even elite ams or pros are often guessing.

Couple of things I'd highlight:

1. The stack is essentially gamified exercise. The overload training is making you stronger. If you are fitter/stronger, you can then apply more force through the club at the same level of effort. So your on course swing would feel the same effort (say it's 90%) but you'll be swinging faster. Increasing strength in squat, deadlift, bench, row and throwing medicine balls will make a hell of a difference on top of this.
2. The overspeed work is essentially removing the brakes and teaching your body to go faster than normal.
3. With that in mind, you have to Max out your swings during training to force your body to adapt and get the benefit, but you wouldn't be swinging like this on course. If the max number goes up 5mph, it's going to bring your bottom speed & cruising on course speed up with it.
4. The people who see most benefit combine swing work, with gym work, with the stack. There are specific things in the swing that can contribute to distance - for example higher hands/longer hand path, pushing hard off the ground with the lead foot through the ball. If you are swinging hip to hip say or shoulder height to shoulder then there's going to be a limitation there as you have less time to apply force through the club.

You only need around 4mph CHS increase to gain around 10 yards off the tee. This averages out to being a stroke better off per round. This is easily doable with some general fitness, intent and a few key thoughts in the swing. 

------

For context my Speed training journey looks like this so far:

November last year - Picked up the clubs after not playing much in probably 2 years. Swing speed sitting around 100mph mark. Fastest I ever was before was around 105-107 at most. Took some lessons and got back in the gym (was a bit out of shape).

Technique and some limited gym work got me to touching 113 maxing out, but it was fleeting and not guaranteed each session at the range. Had to work really hard for it and my on course speed more like 106-108.

I picked up the Stack in January I think and added it into the training when I could fit it in. Stack speed maxed out at 108 at the end of foundations (118 eSpeed).  I'm now in Phase 3 of FSS program and eSpeed is at 122. My playing speed is around the 115 mark - which is beyond anything I dreamed of when starting out and there's plenty more to gains to be had.

So I don't think I could agree that it doesn't work.

 

Apologies - massive TLDR post.

Edited May 18, 2023 by Feynman22

[GolfSpy MPR]

Honestly, I've got four more sessions of Full Speed Spectrum—and I can't wait to shelve this for the summer.

It may well be a true coincidence, but at 43, the past few months I've developed intense pain in the big knuckles of both middle fingers. Each speed session makes it incredibly worse; I assume it is something like arthritis. I intend to keep swinging, to keep working out, and to do the speed priming sessions a couple of times a week. But the all-out swings, especially with the heavy weights, are causing enormous pain for me.

My speeds have dropped off considerably in the past few weeks; my moving average is back to where I was in February. This, I don't believe, is a fault with the Stack: I suspect it's a combo of travel and illness.

The less said about my on course results, the better. My home course opened this week, and I have no ability to hit the golf ball. I've walked two nines; so far, my drives have traveled 141, 130, 172, 168, 213, 179, and 164 yards. For reference, my current Stack "distance potential" is 340, with a driver eSpeed of 121. For the past few years, I've be a reliable bogey-golfer, with my handicap getting down to around 11. Put my first two rounds together, and I shot a 107 on a 6,000 yard course.

Sorry for the downer of a post, but right now, I can't point to a single real gain, although I enjoyed the Stack workouts over the winter.

[Jlocke22]

The knuckle pain is real in middle/ring finger. Dealing with similar issue right now and think it is causing issues with transferring force to grip and a drop in speeds. 

[Feynman22]

1 hour ago, GolfSpy MPR said:

Honestly, I've got four more sessions of Full Speed Spectrum—and I can't wait to shelve this for the summer.

It may well be a true coincidence, but at 43, the past few months I've developed intense pain in the big knuckles of both middle fingers. Each speed session makes it incredibly worse; I assume it is something like arthritis. I intend to keep swinging, to keep working out, and to do the speed priming sessions a couple of times a week. But the all-out swings, especially with the heavy weights, are causing enormous pain for me.

My speeds have dropped off considerably in the past few weeks; my moving average is back to where I was in February. This, I don't believe, is a fault with the Stack: I suspect it's a combo of travel and illness.

The less said about my on course results, the better. My home course opened this week, and I have no ability to hit the golf ball. I've walked two nines; so far, my drives have traveled 141, 130, 172, 168, 213, 179, and 164 yards. For reference, my current Stack "distance potential" is 340, with a driver eSpeed of 121. For the past few years, I've be a reliable bogey-golfer, with my handicap getting down to around 11. Put my first two rounds together, and I shot a 107 on a 6,000 yard course.

Sorry for the downer of a post, but right now, I can't point to a single real gain, although I enjoyed the Stack workouts over the winter.

My hands have been sore on occasion, especially with those heavier weights. Know exactly what you mean.

Is this a recent development with the strike falling away? Were you hitting it well through the winter?

 

[Garbox80]

From what I've understood, jumbo grips could help players suffering from arthritis etc. Have you guys tried those? 

[MIHIGO26]

Progress check complete. So to summarize - lost 2mph with driver (yes I warmed up) according to the app - I will wait and confirm that when I get into the Trackman sim this weekend and use that and compare it with the report I had at the beginning of the program to see if there has been any actual gains with a ball or not. Gained 7mph with 280g, 8mph with the 195g, 2mph with the 145g. Trail/Lead I've no idea since I didn't do them initially. Since starting this program I've seen my handicap increase by 2 to 18 and genuinely showing no signs of getting better. The scores I am posting are utterly woeful in every sense and most importantly my ball striking has went to crap and it's even worse than it already was. I can't say I've seen gained distance on the course either if I'm honest when I do catch one properly, which was the main thing for me and this has not delivered on that front unfortunately.

I was really excited about this system, and I thought I'd make gains across the board, but it's really not helped with my game at all - to the point where I've considered giving up the game completely. Like I said, I will wait and see what the TM report says over the weekend and use that as a measure of gain/no gain compared to the report I had at the start of the speed training but if it's just the same or like The Stack is telling me - worse, then that is a bitterly disappointing experience and I'll probably look to sell this on instead of keeping it around. Maybe the sale of it will be able to fund my first ever Scotty putter. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 19, 2023 by MIHIGO26