The Stack System Review and Progress Thread

[Backofthecup]

12 minutes ago, Jlocke22 said:

I mean “yet to witness one person benefit” is a bit extreme. I’m sure Matt Fitzpatrick doing it on the range of the Masters and between rounds 3 and 4 of his RBC win would like to have a word. On top of Viktor Hovland and multiple other pros. I’m no truther by any means but have jumped multiple MPH cruising speed across the board already being high speed. Yes, there is a learning curve for your body and mechanics as well as most likely an update to update to clubs for optimal/launch and spin. 
 

Rory has stated multiple issue adjusting to speed training as well as Padraig and many others. Just doesn’t happen over night. 

Yes. I feel the mechanics take you at least a step back, if not two. I'm not looking for an overnight success. Like I said I've been doing this over a year. Please tell me, what is the timeframe?

[Jlocke22]

I have no idea. Didn’t mean to come off so negative - I’m in similar boat. Jason Day just come out yesterday saying it took him over a year to make small swing changes. I’m with you though - played D2 once upon a time, always solid with wedges and iron striking and sucked at Driving. It has changed for the better in some instances, iron distances have increased, but distance control more than anything is suffering and obviously hurting scores on my end. I started to develop a very wide late hinge with collapsing arms at the top that turned into early extending. So much I burnt a hole through my tennis shoes that I used for Stack Sessions….

So I am working through some things as well. I just chalk it up to ebbs and flows and taking the journey. Just meant to say that it is working for a bunch of people, just depends on parameters. 

[MrKSTOKES]

9 hours ago, Backofthecup said:

My handicap is going up with no end in sight. Pretty much coincided when I started Speed Training over a year ago. It has without a doubt caused several issues. My iron play has never been this bad. Whatever minimal gains I may have picked up are offset by poor ball-striking. I've gone from a +1.1 to a 3.0 and just getting killed at my course. Using the Stack system has be regrettable. It may work for some (I've yet to witness one person that has benefited from this program) but it certainly can do much more harm the help. 

I can vouch for its success, it clearly hasn’t been working for you but to say no one has benefited from using it comes across like extremely sour grapes.

to deny extra speed isn’t a benefit is ludicrous.

extra speed on top of swing issues could cause major problems, that seems obvious.

you keep stating that your max swing doesn’t match you on course swing, which as I’ve already pointed out makes me question your understanding of speed training?

your max swing is just a glimpse into how you COULD swing it on the course if you continue the training and your speed keeps increasing until your old max becomes your game swing.

apologies if this comes across as a dig, it isn’t but you keep lashing out at a product because it hasn’t worked for you and your comments suggest you either don’t understand speed training or there’s swing issues.

from memory when Sasho reviewed one of your swings and said you weren’t swinging with enough effort your reply was that your friends said you were swinging out your shoes, if you want to take your friends opinion over one of the worlds leading experts then speed training probably isn’t for you and just go play and have fun at this point

[Hoyoymac]

For those of you struggling with ball contact after swing speed training I can only imagine how frustrating that would be.  Hopefully you get things dialed back in.

My experience is the opposite. Swing speed training has given my game a needed boost.   Hitting the tee ball great.  Hitting my irons flush.  Handicap going back down.

Had several personal bests again today with a big jump using the 45g weight. +5mph today.

The last few sessions I’ve warmed up by doing an Orange Whip GFX program using the Lightspeed club.  Then followed immediately by the Stack System workout.

 

[Feynman22]

On 5/17/2023 at 11:01 PM, Backofthecup said:

My handicap is going up with no end in sight. Pretty much coincided when I started Speed Training over a year ago. It has without a doubt caused several issues. My iron play has never been this bad. Whatever minimal gains I may have picked up are offset by poor ball-striking. I've gone from a +1.1 to a 3.0 and just getting killed at my course. . 

I think it's a slight misunderstanding of speed training at this point if you've seen no or limited progress in a year.

I would recommend seeking out podcasts with Sasho  (he's been on chasing scratch, Hack it out, Fit4 Golf and loads more) and also check out the Vimeo videos you find on the Stack website. Also I'd seriously consider some coaching with coaches who understand or specialise in distance - for example a few good options on Skillest would be Scott Borrowman, Steve Furlonger, Jonathon Staton. Without proper coaching even elite ams or pros are often guessing.

Couple of things I'd highlight:

1. The stack is essentially gamified exercise. The overload training is making you stronger. If you are fitter/stronger, you can then apply more force through the club at the same level of effort. So your on course swing would feel the same effort (say it's 90%) but you'll be swinging faster. Increasing strength in squat, deadlift, bench, row and throwing medicine balls will make a hell of a difference on top of this.
2. The overspeed work is essentially removing the brakes and teaching your body to go faster than normal.
3. With that in mind, you have to Max out your swings during training to force your body to adapt and get the benefit, but you wouldn't be swinging like this on course. If the max number goes up 5mph, it's going to bring your bottom speed & cruising on course speed up with it.
4. The people who see most benefit combine swing work, with gym work, with the stack. There are specific things in the swing that can contribute to distance - for example higher hands/longer hand path, pushing hard off the ground with the lead foot through the ball. If you are swinging hip to hip say or shoulder height to shoulder then there's going to be a limitation there as you have less time to apply force through the club.

You only need around 4mph CHS increase to gain around 10 yards off the tee. This averages out to being a stroke better off per round. This is easily doable with some general fitness, intent and a few key thoughts in the swing. 

------

For context my Speed training journey looks like this so far:

November last year - Picked up the clubs after not playing much in probably 2 years. Swing speed sitting around 100mph mark. Fastest I ever was before was around 105-107 at most. Took some lessons and got back in the gym (was a bit out of shape).

Technique and some limited gym work got me to touching 113 maxing out, but it was fleeting and not guaranteed each session at the range. Had to work really hard for it and my on course speed more like 106-108.

I picked up the Stack in January I think and added it into the training when I could fit it in. Stack speed maxed out at 108 at the end of foundations (118 eSpeed).  I'm now in Phase 3 of FSS program and eSpeed is at 122. My playing speed is around the 115 mark - which is beyond anything I dreamed of when starting out and there's plenty more to gains to be had.

So I don't think I could agree that it doesn't work.

 

Apologies - massive TLDR post.

Edited May 18 by Feynman22

[GolfSpy MPR]

Honestly, I've got four more sessions of Full Speed Spectrum—and I can't wait to shelve this for the summer.

It may well be a true coincidence, but at 43, the past few months I've developed intense pain in the big knuckles of both middle fingers. Each speed session makes it incredibly worse; I assume it is something like arthritis. I intend to keep swinging, to keep working out, and to do the speed priming sessions a couple of times a week. But the all-out swings, especially with the heavy weights, are causing enormous pain for me.

My speeds have dropped off considerably in the past few weeks; my moving average is back to where I was in February. This, I don't believe, is a fault with the Stack: I suspect it's a combo of travel and illness.

The less said about my on course results, the better. My home course opened this week, and I have no ability to hit the golf ball. I've walked two nines; so far, my drives have traveled 141, 130, 172, 168, 213, 179, and 164 yards. For reference, my current Stack "distance potential" is 340, with a driver eSpeed of 121. For the past few years, I've be a reliable bogey-golfer, with my handicap getting down to around 11. Put my first two rounds together, and I shot a 107 on a 6,000 yard course.

Sorry for the downer of a post, but right now, I can't point to a single real gain, although I enjoyed the Stack workouts over the winter.

[Jlocke22]

The knuckle pain is real in middle/ring finger. Dealing with similar issue right now and think it is causing issues with transferring force to grip and a drop in speeds. 

[Feynman22]

1 hour ago, GolfSpy MPR said:

Honestly, I've got four more sessions of Full Speed Spectrum—and I can't wait to shelve this for the summer.

It may well be a true coincidence, but at 43, the past few months I've developed intense pain in the big knuckles of both middle fingers. Each speed session makes it incredibly worse; I assume it is something like arthritis. I intend to keep swinging, to keep working out, and to do the speed priming sessions a couple of times a week. But the all-out swings, especially with the heavy weights, are causing enormous pain for me.

My speeds have dropped off considerably in the past few weeks; my moving average is back to where I was in February. This, I don't believe, is a fault with the Stack: I suspect it's a combo of travel and illness.

The less said about my on course results, the better. My home course opened this week, and I have no ability to hit the golf ball. I've walked two nines; so far, my drives have traveled 141, 130, 172, 168, 213, 179, and 164 yards. For reference, my current Stack "distance potential" is 340, with a driver eSpeed of 121. For the past few years, I've be a reliable bogey-golfer, with my handicap getting down to around 11. Put my first two rounds together, and I shot a 107 on a 6,000 yard course.

Sorry for the downer of a post, but right now, I can't point to a single real gain, although I enjoyed the Stack workouts over the winter.

My hands have been sore on occasion, especially with those heavier weights. Know exactly what you mean.

Is this a recent development with the strike falling away? Were you hitting it well through the winter?

 

[Garbox80]

From what I've understood, jumbo grips could help players suffering from arthritis etc. Have you guys tried those? 

[MIHIGO26]

Progress check complete. So to summarize - lost 2mph with driver (yes I warmed up) according to the app - I will wait and confirm that when I get into the Trackman sim this weekend and use that and compare it with the report I had at the beginning of the program to see if there has been any actual gains with a ball or not. Gained 7mph with 280g, 8mph with the 195g, 2mph with the 145g. Trail/Lead I've no idea since I didn't do them initially. Since starting this program I've seen my handicap increase by 2 to 18 and genuinely showing no signs of getting better. The scores I am posting are utterly woeful in every sense and most importantly my ball striking has went to crap and it's even worse than it already was. I can't say I've seen gained distance on the course either if I'm honest when I do catch one properly, which was the main thing for me and this has not delivered on that front unfortunately.

I was really excited about this system, and I thought I'd make gains across the board, but it's really not helped with my game at all - to the point where I've considered giving up the game completely. Like I said, I will wait and see what the TM report says over the weekend and use that as a measure of gain/no gain compared to the report I had at the start of the speed training but if it's just the same or like The Stack is telling me - worse, then that is a bitterly disappointing experience and I'll probably look to sell this on instead of keeping it around. Maybe the sale of it will be able to fund my first ever Scotty putter. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 19 by MIHIGO26

[GolfSpy MPR]

8 hours ago, Garbox80 said:

From what I've understood, jumbo grips could help players suffering from arthritis etc. Have you guys tried those? 

I really don't have pain hitting balls. Just doing speed training.

[MIHIGO26]

Trackman reports are in and I also found some older data from another e-mail account.

Nov 2020 CHS: 91.3mph
May 2021 CHS : 94.7mph
June 2021 CHS: 91mph
July 2021 CHS: 93mph
Nov 2021 CHS: 95.3mph
Apr 2022  CHS: 89.1mph - This is the month I was playing my best golf ever. My lowest scores.
May 2022 CHS: 90.2mph
Mar 2023 (one week after starting Stack) CHS: 95mph
May 2023 (after finishing first Stack program) CHS: 93mph

In short - I've lost speed. 

So while this may work for some people (I imagine the better players) I am not disputing that, it certainly hasn't for me. It has been a very costly experience in many ways. It cost me a decent bit of money, and it's also cost me whatever game I did have. I've now lost so much confidence on the course that the strong areas of my game are starting to erode away also. What a bitterly disappointing experience.

I'll be selling The Stack and a PRGR very shortly so I can an attempt to rediscover my confidence and ball striking and my love for the game before I end up throwing the towel in for good.

 

 

Edited May 20 by MIHIGO26

[Hoyoymac]

Workout 14 of Foundation complete.

 

[Jlocke22]

Update: 

 

Still been keeping up with the new Neural program and seeing some progress or numbers close to what I was seeing at my peaks of Full Speed Spectrum program. 

 

As many have also shared on their journey, I started to have some tempo issues, less than desired launch characteristics, and combining with some swing tweaks it has been some less than desired results. 

 

This past weekend was my first real test as I have only gotten in 27 holes so far with the odd weather in Michigan. Had 27 Holes Friday and 36 holes Saturday on an annual guys trip in some rain, heavy fog, cold, and crazy wind. I laid off the gym and took a few days off Stack to recover. 

 

Leading up to this weekend I did two full sessions just solely on tempo on gate swings. Under some guidance of Trackman I changed some loft/weighting on driver to match up with new shaft for better desired launch. Also started finding myself taking swings on the course like I was in the garage ripping max swings. Working on finding a sweet spot tempo wise. 

 

Happy to report I hit some absolute bombs in some really sub-optimal weather conditions. Setup and alignment could still use some love but hit a bunch of fairways and on Friday I even hit two greens that the card had at 334 and 339 in 50 degrees, mist rain, and fog. 

 

I myself have been up and down on feelings but just like anything with mechanics, launch, weight trainings, and now speed training, it will take time to make "real" changes. Those can also negatively effect other things such as launch, timing, etc. that can negate the speed increases until those are addressed. Hope everyone is stacking gains! 

[Hoyoymac]

Session 15 of Foundation complete. 
 

 

[Hoyoymac]

Session 16 completed:

A couple of personal bests then I ran out of gas.

 

[Feynman22]

Played in a member guest event at the weekend there. Still slowly chipping away at the rust in the game (haven't been playing much yet).

Had a couple of standout moments though... Downwind & firm fairways, but a couple of drives I hit went 355 and 360 yards . Was pin high on a 362 par 4 and then had a flick with lob wedge to the other. Pretty decent downwind but was 30 yards by playing partners and won the long drive prize  - cheers Sasho! 

For context, prior to swing, gym and stacking I was sitting around 100mph.

I'm still fighting the swing and have been slacking with the gym and stack, so I'm hopeful there's more in the tank.

Edited May 29 by Feynman22

[Hoyoymac]

Completed my Progress Check after finishing the Foundation workout program.  

Below are my results from the initial baseline and from my progress check.  
 

Gained 8 MPH with driver after the Foundation program and increased my eSpeed by 12 MPH.

Will start the recommended Full Speed Spectrum program in a few days.

 

[Hoyoymac]

2nd workout of the Full Speed Spectrum program completed.

Switching between Full and Max intent swings seems to be confusing me a bit with some slower speeds than what I was seeing at the end of the Foundation Program.

 

[TigerHoods]

Here are my results after a few weeks with the Stack. Some noticeable early gains (which could be from just getting used to the stick), but I haven’t broken through beyond that. Anyone else experience similar results?