The Stack System Review and Progress Thread

[RD McAvoy 1]

On 8/7/2021 at 11:02 AM, Measure2x said:

I totally agree with you. Just don't have the $350 at the moment, so I'm living vicariously through you guys. 

One thing I think is interesting is the Stack System seems to use weights much heavier and lighter than SuperSpeed. I haven't noticed people talking about that aspect on the various threads. I think Sasho/Jertson must be taking a different approach. I trust them more than anyone else. 

Based on my observations:

SpeedSpeed goes from ~255-262 grams (Green light stick) to 335-343g (Red heavy stick)

Stack System goes from 48g cap/152g shaft=200g with no weights all the way up to 480g (200g stick w/280g weights on). 280g is the heaviest I've seen in any of the posted protocols.

There is a significant difference between the two systems. I think that's interesting and I'd love to hear more from Sasho on why they think such heavy weights are still effective. 

Keep posting results. These are super motivational.  Attached are pics of my poor man's version. I might have to plunk down the big bucks and join the club. 

I'm no Phd but I've trained for CHS and have had superb gains in the past. The answer to your question is it's pure biomechanics. The early 1070's US Olympic blue ribbon study committee referenced the "Bat Speed" of female softball players. They discovered that swinging a bat 10% heavier v normal, 10% lighter v normal, normal bat ten reps each / three - 5 days a week, as fast as can be done, consistently elevated bat speeds for all players. This training is referred to as "overweight/underweight" burst training. MLB has used similar training for years. 

BUT it's not about the training "club" weight necessarily as it is how it's applied. You train for speed by going faster.... in everything! In other words, 1st because the brain has no reference and lacks knowledge it has to be taught what speed really is. As training moves along a player lays down a new neural pathway to fire/sequence the muscles/motions to generate increased velocity. Humans LEARN that fastest while using a lighter weight training object. At the same time we are trying to recruit a subset of fast twitch muscle fiber named Fast Twitch B or X. This portion of overall fast twitch fiber is unique as it will behave as true anaerobic fiber (energy stored within the muscle) OR it will "switch" and behave as slow twitch which is not switchable. We are by nature a sedentary creature conserving energy and thus prone to using / recruiting fast twitch B/X as non-fast twitch fiber. Think of a marathoner trying to run a 60m sprint. Or the inverse of a sprinter trying to run a marathon. Two completely different training approaches though both are running. This is similar to what happens in golf.

So how does one recruit fast twitch B/X muscle? 1st, everything must be done in bursts; as fast as possible; even to the point of losing stability and control. We learn best while "over training & failure.” Think High Intensity Training.... as many reps in 8 seconds or 8 - 10 reps with minimal rest between reps as fast as possible. 2nd, Using a lighter/heavier/normal "club" (over/under training) and something that replicates the same general motion. 3rd, players brains must have feedback to verify that performance in improving thus speed radar is essential.

Final thoughts: With speed training sometimes "less is more" as rest is essential for both the brain and the muscles. (Humans only have about 7min of anaerobic capacity stored within fast twitch muscle fiber. It takes about 24 hours to replenish it so don't hit a bunch of golf balls before/after speed training.) If one wants to swing slow(er) then train slow… use primarily a heavier driver v normal or lift weights. (Speed is

not the same as power. Think whine RPM v engine torque.) It's why The Stack System has a wide range of weights to zero in on the most effective mixture. Having trained for speed in the past, the SS software is intriguing and makes perfect sense.  All the best.  

Addendum: The many variable weight combinations of the SS are brilliant as not every user has the identical strength / speed demands or will develop at the same rate over time, have like gains. Having a handy piece of software do all the results tracking is far easier and effective than manually as I've done in the past. 

Edited December 18, 2021 by RD McAvoy

[RD McAvoy 1]

On 8/7/2021 at 11:02 AM, Measure2x said:

I totally agree with you. Just don't have the $350 at the moment, so I'm living vicariously through you guys. 

One thing I think is interesting is the Stack System seems to use weights much heavier and lighter than SuperSpeed. I haven't noticed people talking about that aspect on the various threads. I think Sasho/Jertson must be taking a different approach. I trust them more than anyone else. 

Based on my observations:

SpeedSpeed goes from ~255-262 grams (Green light stick) to 335-343g (Red heavy stick)

Stack System goes from 48g cap/152g shaft=200g with no weights all the way up to 480g (200g stick w/280g weights on). 280g is the heaviest I've seen in any of the posted protocols.

There is a significant difference between the two systems. I think that's interesting and I'd love to hear more from Sasho on why they think such heavy weights are still effective. 

Keep posting results. These are super motivational.  Attached are pics of my poor man's version. I might have to plunk down the big bucks and join the club. 

Over/under training goes back to an US Olympic study for women’s softball. That study revealed hitting 10 ball sets 3 times a week with max effort using a bat 10% heavier, 10% lighter, normal bat, increased bat speed considerably. Sooooo, based on the bat speed study, my Ping driver weighing 328gms, thus the max speed training weight would be 360gm. Of course it’s fluid and student dependent which is where the app comes in. I’m confident Sasho has more science than me but this is the basics.

Edited December 19, 2021 by RD McAvoy

[RobSquared 6]

Hi there! I’m still a believer!

Starting into Phase 4 of the Foundation Program (about 5 weeks in) and the gains are still impressive, at least for me. I’m up 14mph which now translates to now having the potential to hit 300+ yd drives with the 110+ mph driver eSpeed. Air swing with my gamer driver is now consistently between 113-115mph measured on the PRGR and at about 90% of max effort. 

Hope this helps if you’re on the fence still about the Stack. Happy training!

 

[CTEagle 0]

Hey all,

Has anyone had their swing speed drop after starting the program? I'm 13 sessions through my first program (Foundation) and I'm starting to head in the wrong direction. My swing speed peaked with 195g during the second session and has kind of bounced around since then. It's seemed to really drop off with phase 3. I know progress isn't linear and I'm going to keep at it but I am starting to get a bit concerned. 

I will also say I have not seen a decline in distance on the course, I just can't seem to swing 195g faster. 

I have also exchanged a few emails with Sasho (not on this, earlier on some other questions) and he's been great. I don't want anyone to take away a negative impression of Stack from this post. 

Edited December 30, 2021 by CTEagle

[Cory O 423]

14 hours ago, CTEagle said:

Hey all,

Has anyone had their swing speed drop after starting the program? I'm 13 sessions through my first program (Foundation) and I'm starting to head in the wrong direction. My swing speed peaked with 195g during the second session and has kind of bounced around since then. It's seemed to really drop off with phase 3. I know progress isn't linear and I'm going to keep at it but I am starting to get a bit concerned. 

I will also say I have not seen a decline in distance on the course, I just can't seem to swing 195g faster. 

I have also exchanged a few emails with Sasho (not on this, earlier on some other questions) and he's been great. I don't want anyone to take away a negative impression of Stack from this post. 

Is it possible you have an injury or something additional wearing out your body? Or did you happen to change the time of day that you're doing the training? Last, any type of swing change you've made?
There are several possibilities. As mentioned, the gains won't be linear, but a 20mph decrease would seem like something else is going on.

[fixyurdivot 18,163]

Great thread and lots of interesting, and impressive results.  While expensive, this system and especially the app look top shelf... love the way it shows progress.  Like Rypstick and SS products, I keep lurking and thinking about trying one out.  Perhaps I missed it in this and reviews (threads) on competing products, but it sounds like you need to also buy a speed tracking device?

As I'm also looking into a G3/Mevo+/?? PLM, primarily for home use, finding matches with this or the other speed training options becomes a sticky wicket.  Not yet certain I'm going to try a SS training protocol, but it would be nice to get complimentary systems if I do.

[Vegan_Golfer_PNW 5,010]

21 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

Great thread and lots of interesting, and impressive results.  While expensive, this system and especially the app look top shelf... love the way it shows progress.  Like Rypstick and SS products, I keep lurking and thinking about trying one out.  Perhaps I missed it in this and reviews (threads) on competing products, but it sounds like you need to also buy a speed tracking device?

As I'm also looking into a G3/Mevo+/?? PLM, primarily for home use, finding matches with this or the other speed training options becomes a sticky wicket.  Not yet certain I'm going to try a SS training protocol, but it would be nice to get complimentary systems if I do.

I use a prgr and love it. Also gets use on the range for gapping sessions and wedge practice 

[CTEagle 0]

@Cory O

Not going to lie, the 20 mph drop yesterday definitely spurred this post but I don't think that's really where I'm swinging. I'm probably still between 95-100 (for the 195g) where I've been since I started this. 

No injuries or swing changes, I am in Florida right now visiting family vs. San Francisco where I live but I'd think the warm weather would help things. 

I work in tech and am a data person so I record everything in the notes section. Weather, how I warmed up, whoop recovery score, how my body is feeling and what my swing thoughts were during that session. I've gone back through my notes and haven't found anything that I could point to. 

 

 

[CTEagle 0]

On 12/30/2021 at 11:24 AM, CTEagle said:

@Cory O

Not going to lie, the 20 mph drop yesterday definitely spurred this post but I don't think that's really where I'm swinging. I'm probably still between 95-100 (for the 195g) where I've been since I started this. 

No injuries or swing changes, I am in Florida right now visiting family vs. San Francisco where I live but I'd think the warm weather would help things. 

I work in tech and am a data person so I record everything in the notes section. Weather, how I warmed up, whoop recovery score, how my body is feeling and what my swing thoughts were during that session. I've gone back through my notes and haven't found anything that I could point to. 

 

 

Golf is a weird game. Set all time highs with 300g & 225g and 195g was back up to a 96 average (with a high of 98) today. Not really sure what's going on but it'll be interesting to see where I net out in the progress check in a week. 

[CDMac24 14]

On 5/14/2021 at 8:48 PM, BMart519 said:

This I feel is a benefit of the stack, your getting realistic swing reps instead of happy Gilmore swings and doing the triple jump for super speed.

I've been reading through this thread and you guys have given me great hope for possible speed gains. SuperSpeed helped to some degree but I also felt at odds with "Happy Gilmore" type swings and not really being forced to focus on the tempo/sequencing. Off season (not really one in South Florida), after the winter when all the snowbirds head north, I'm planning on picking up the Stack. The insight from this thread has been wonderful; thanks!

[CDMac24 14]

On 6/29/2021 at 10:16 PM, treeleaf20 said:

I got mine earlier this week and finally had time to complete the baseline today. 

Overall, the app is very easy to use as others have mentioned with recorded instructions and built in rest etc. 

I’m not a long hitter compared to some of the numbers others are posting here so really looking forward to hopefully seeing some progress here.  
 

I'll be in the same boat when I start with a low 90's swing speed. If I can get anywhere near the % gains the others have shown, that will be a game changer.

[CDMac24 14]

On 7/14/2021 at 10:46 AM, BMart519 said:

But speed training can be funny…

Agreed: Just as with weight training, making gains is not a linear progression. There is so much of this work that relates to the Central Nervous System and pushing your mind through barriers as much as it is about the physical ability to apply force to the club. I'm hoping that the Stack will help my sequencing/tempo/timing as I think I have requisite strength but lack the fundamental movement patterns to hit bombs.

[RobSquared 6]

On 12/30/2021 at 11:24 AM, CTEagle said:

@Cory O

Not going to lie, the 20 mph drop yesterday definitely spurred this post but I don't think that's really where I'm swinging. I'm probably still between 95-100 (for the 195g) where I've been since I started this. 

No injuries or swing changes, I am in Florida right now visiting family vs. San Francisco where I live but I'd think the warm weather would help things. 

I work in tech and am a data person so I record everything in the notes section. Weather, how I warmed up, whoop recovery score, how my body is feeling and what my swing thoughts were during that session. I've gone back through my notes and haven't found anything that I could point to. 

 

 

After my first Foundation program just completed and with the incredible results as previously shared, I was moved into the Full Speed Spectrum training program as selected by the app at the start of this year. My first two sessions of this new program were a struggle and both were very underwhelming back to back sessions as far as speed. I have changed something in my routine though. With the New Year and all these happy feels tied to my progress, I started a weight training program to hopefully compliment my Stack training. Well a heavy leg day filled with squats and deadlifts this morning yielded laboring effort during my Stack session later in the day and my worst single day speed results ever. 

But, it gets better….took out the driver for some air swings following the session to take my frustrations out on and obviously not expecting anything but the same struggle. Then this happened. 118mph (SIM2 9.0deg/44.25”/Tour AD DI 7S/JumboMax Ultralight XS). 3mph faster than my previous best. Keep in mind before starting the Stack on Nov 5/21 I was registering in the high 90s. That’s physically finding a way to swing the club 20mph faster in just 2 months. Go figure. 

I’m still a believer! Happy New Year! Happy Training Everyone!

 

[BMart519 1,412]

Western Canada is emerging from 2 weeks of brutal weather with wind chill regularly between -30 to -50. So I was not spending time in the garage and didn't feel bad about it in the least. Between too many holiday beverages and lazing about with family, I wasn't expecting great things (or fast swings). 

Did my first session in 2.5 weeks of Full Speed Spectrum and set new highs in the first 4 sets, only to slow down for the 195g set and miss out increased distance potential. Found some swing queues that I plan on exploring for the rest of the program. Managed to clock one drive at 155mph ball speed and 265 carry in a garage at roughly 48F. 

[BWillows29 2]

Long time follower, (of this thread and MGS in general) first time poster. 

3 years ago, I made the move from Manitoba to British Columbia (North Dakota ->Washington equivalent for our American Friends) and as such, gained 3-4 months worth of golf season. With the added opportunity to play almost year round, I decided to make a concerted effort to improve.

My first attempts at improvement included more range time and playing more, but I lacked a solid swing foundation, and being a former collegiate level hockey player, my swing remained stiff and "slap shot" like. I floundered at a 20+ handicap for the year, watching a different YouTube video every other day looking for the secret would be the key to unlocking my improvement (and not practicing putting or chipping nearly enough). 

February 2020 I took the plunge and got a 10 pack of lessons from GolfTec, though it was briefly interrupted due to Covid closures, the success was almost instant going from a 21 Hcp to a 12.7 Hcp over the course of the season. This is more an endorsement of my coach than it is of GolfTec, but I did really appreciate the app and the ability to watch video of myself doing the drills etc. While it can be expensive, it's the best investment I've made into the game to date. 

 

This past season I was able to get as low as 11.7 Hcp with course management and increased amounts of time practicing putting and chipping while honing the fundamentals of what the lessons were reinforcing. The ball was staying in play (for the most part) and life was good.

While chipping, putting, and golf in general are lifetime pursuits to improve, the last component I felt was unaddressed and could have a significant impact in a relatively short amount of time was swing speed. For a 32 year old 180-190 lbs man, I was only swinging my driver 86 mph max. 

Being a Physiotherapist, I liked the idea of "biohacking" and the routine/schedule that came along with The Stack System. It seemed grounded in solid science, and was accommodating to the individual golfer behind the app. 

Prior to starting The Stack System Program, I scheduled a TPI assessment, which identified "disassociation drills" as being a being of primary importance moving forward. I've coupled what the TPI professional suggested with my own strength and conditioning routine (3x per week) and have nothing but positive things to say about the TPI experience.

As a health care professional, I'd also advocate for doing at least 2-4 weeks of some form of sub-maximal to maximal exercise prior to starting the Stack System, as going from sedentary to swinging with "Full intent" or "Max" effort, at weights you're unaccustomed to might increase your chance of injury. I've used 8-15 minutes worth of my TPI drills as a warm up and it's worked well to this point!

It has been unusually cold on the West Coast, so the Baseline and First 2 sessions of "Phase 1" were performed at roughly -4C. 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

After 5 sessions, I've been incredibly impressed with the results: 

ESpeed: 92 Mph (+6 Mph)

Distance Potential: 254 yards (+13 yds)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Of note, my 4th session was performed in my garage where space is pretty tight and I was for sure thinking about not hitting anything. My 5th session was completed post Covid-19 infection after the sickest I've been in a decade. 

The increase of roughly 10+ yards checks out on my PRGR at the range, with my 7 iron going roughly 150-155 yds vs. 140-145 yds last season.

For the past 6 weeks my strength and conditioning has been in in the 8-10 rep range (with 1 rest week during Christmas), I'm looking to knock that down to the 4-5 rep range with heavier weights over the course of the next 4 weeks.

I realize the results will not be linear, but the early gains have definitely been eye opening. 

Looking forward to posting again in about a month to see where I end up!

[Getoffmylawn 5,777]

So, I may have just gotten the green light to get The Stack System.  That said, I already have the SuperSpeed sticks, and the SuperSpeed C Club.  So, my question to the group…is it worth it to switch to the Stack?  I don’t care about one club versus 3, I just want the best tool, and the access to the app and a more tailored program vs one-size-fits all protocols of SuperSpeed appeals to me.  Thoughts?

Also, I have the blue/gray radar…work well enough with the Stack app?

[JustinVA2244 0]

I just competed my stack system first program “the foundation”.  According to the app I was swinging near 100MPH and should be hitting it 280.  Keep in mind my average driver are 200yds before I started.

 

I tested this new found speed on a trackman and outside on a golf course.  Results- same speed w no added distance.  Same result as all other golf training aids and lesssons.  Anyone else notice the same?

 

[YourKillingMeSmalls 51]

Started by baseline, mine was like a couple of others a few mph behind playing speed but it is 30 degrees and in my garage.

[BMart519 1,412]

On 2/6/2022 at 11:24 AM, Getoffmylawn said:

So, I may have just gotten the green light to get The Stack System.  That said, I already have the SuperSpeed sticks, and the SuperSpeed C Club.  So, my question to the group…is it worth it to switch to the Stack?  I don’t care about one club versus 3, I just want the best tool, and the access to the app and a more tailored program vs one-size-fits all protocols of SuperSpeed appeals to me.  Thoughts?

Also, I have the blue/gray radar…work well enough with the Stack app?

I believe you are talking about the Swing Speed Radar.. That has been tested and is available for selection within the Stack App to normalize the club head speed. So it is one of the 10 preferred units to use. 

The most important aspect of speed training is getting in reps at max effort/speed multiple times per week. You are splitting hairs between SuperSpeed and Stack based on what I have seen from the level of detail you have been tracking and your prior physical training experience. There are a lot of long drive guys that preach max effort swings using driver with and without a ball is important. 

The biggest benefits of the Stack is: pacing for rest between reps and sets and all of your historical data is logged in the app as well as the ability to journal after each workout. There's approx 7 Stack workout programs vs 6 levels for Superspeed I believe... I still believe making only "normal" swings with the Stack has carried over to my driver swing on course better than all of the swing variations in SS protocols and I do not miss the opposite side swings. 

It's not a magic bullet. Between a back strain, -30 degree temps in my garage, and now COVID (6-10 MPH drop) - I am on pace to have 0 gains over my last 2 Stack programs because I am not able to speed train every 2nd or 3rd day as prescribed. I have been able to maintain speed while not playing and doing minimal weight lifting however. 

I got my squat and deadlift up a fair amount this winter which I thought was limiting my speed as I started to plateau on the Stack in the fall. I am now leaning towards a combination of technique and rotary strength/power being the issues as I can't do nearly as much at home with medicine balls. 

[BMart519 1,412]

On 2/12/2022 at 3:51 PM, JustinVA2244 said:

I just competed my stack system first program “the foundation”.  According to the app I was swinging near 100MPH and should be hitting it 280.  Keep in mind my average driver are 200yds before I started.

 

I tested this new found speed on a trackman and outside on a golf course.  Results- same speed w no added distance.  Same result as all other golf training aids and lesssons.  Anyone else notice the same?

 

Stack "yardages" are all calculated based on your speeds without a ball (plus roll I believe) which will never carryover to the course at 100%. I average 6MPH slower hitting a ball vs swinging without. That's 19 yards according to the math in the App. 

100MPH swing is going to get you around 250 carry assuming you hit the ball well, there are lots of places where you will not get 30 yards rollout. If you are slicing the ball, hitting down on it, and spinning it too much in general that can easily drop to 220-230. Then subtract 10-20 yards I mentioned about while hitting an actual ball and you are in that 200-220 zone.