Maximizing equipment

[revkev 25,696]

Hi all, wasn't quite sure where to put this one and it may not get that much play but it has been on my mind of late and is relevant at the start of the season for many.  I've worked very hard over the past few years on my fitness primarily for life as I'm aging but certainly also for my golf game.  Between over speed training, Physical Therapy and strength training I have added a good deal to my swing speed - from 84 to 94 with the driver and finally it seems to be locked in.  What I mean by that is I can skip the overspeed training for a few weeks or even a month and it will still be there.  Additionally with things settled my swing has settled.  When I watch it on video I'm generally happy with what I see.

 

Based on that there are three equipment areas that need to be addressed based upon ARCOSS and Rapsodo numbers.  

 

1.  Driver distance - at 94 I should be averaging between 225 and 230 yards of carry - I'm not and I think it's because I don't have the driver totally dialed in.  I may not need a new driver, it might be getting a fitter to find the proper head setting but I need to get this dialed in - my current driving averages is low 220's - get that to over 230 and I can shave some strokes off the handicap.  Get it to 240 - tough but possible - and I can get back down close to scratch with playing, practice time.

 

2.  210-220 yards - the longest wood that I have confidence with is 5 wood.  I've added some distance to that from 180-195 to 190-205.  I'm hitting the ball well right now.  There should be some 3 wood head/shaft combo out there with enough tech in it that I can hit the thing 215 off the turf - I had that distance twice the other day and hit a grounder once - (great lay up) and laid up the other time because there was a trap in the way that I didn't want to bounce the ball into.  Two pars rather than a par and a birdie if I had a 215 club.

 

3.  165 yards - I have a huge hole at what should be 6 iron.  My shallow AoA makes this truly a problematic number - when the planets align and I hit my 6 iron it  launches at 18 degrees and carries a bit over 160 - perfect - I carry 7 iron 148 and 5 wood 172 so that's just where that club needs to be for me - but I can't have a club at that distance which is a 50/50 proposition.  11 wood is out   So I either need a thicker soled iron (I do have the regular D7 but there's too much offset IMO) or a hybrid in that slot.  I have two older hybrids at home that I will try as I don't hit the Ping 410 well at all. 

 

My two new wedges are working out great at the bottom of my bag - I used to game 3 wedges there, learned from ARCOSS that I was terrible with one and now have the gaps figured out nicely.  

[jlukes 16,728]

10 minutes ago, revkev said:

 

3.  165 yards - I have a huge hole at what should be 6 iron.  My shallow AoA makes this truly a problematic number - when the planets align and I hit my 6 iron it  launches at 18 degrees and carries a bit over 160 - perfect - I carry 7 iron 148 and 5 wood 172 so that's just where that club needs to be for me - but I can't have a club at that distance which is a 50/50 proposition.  11 wood is out   So I either need a thicker soled iron (I do have the regular D7 but there's too much offset IMO) or a hybrid in that slot.  I have two older hybrids at home that I will try as I don't hit the Ping 410 well at all. 

 

 

The shallower your AoA is, the better you will do with thinner soled irons.

 

Check out this video from TXG.  Average swing speed older gentleman getting fit into irons.  Shallow AoA similar to you 

[cnosil 26,307]

This is a difficult question to answer as there are so many variables. Why are you losing distance? Could be a number of things but unless you know swing details it really is hard to answer.

Driver - where to you hit it on the face, what is launch angle, what is AoA, what is spin? All of
Those influence distance. Not saying to chase numbers but as you tweak the variable the numbers move up and down.

6 iron - same type of questions. Also, since you la I confidence are you swinging with a committed swing or are you trying to control the ball with a less than full out swing? I see this when I am doing most wanted sessions. I want to make a good swing but get less than ideal results if I don’t swing like I can. Seems to mess up the timing and sequencing.

No real insightful answer but there are lots If unknowns with what you are asking.

[revkev 25,696]

This is a difficult question to answer as there are so many variables. Why are you losing distance? Could be a number of things but unless you know swing details it really is hard to answer.

Driver - where to you hit it on the face, what is launch angle, what is AoA, what is spin? All of
Those influence distance. Not saying to chase numbers but as you tweak the variable the numbers move up and down.

6 iron - same type of questions. Also, since you la I confidence are you swinging with a committed swing or are you trying to control the ball with a less than full out swing? I see this when I am doing most wanted sessions. I want to make a good swing but get less than ideal results if I don’t swing like I can. Seems to mess up the timing and sequencing.

No real insightful answer but there are lots If unknowns with what you are asking.

Yep - these are all considerations - But so is the amount of practice time and if there’s an easy equipment fix to the 165 shot I’m grabbing it. Likewise at three wood. I want to go for a driver fitting to see what’s up there.

As to the AoA thin soles irons comment earlier I appreciate it but this is far from my first rodeo and I’ve been fit plenty enough times to know that I do better with thicker sole and more loft as I move into the middle of the bag.


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[cnosil 26,307]

18 minutes ago, revkev said:

 

Yep - these are all considerations - But so is the amount of practice time and if there’s an easy equipment fix to the 165 shot I’m grabbing it. Likewise at three wood. I want to go for a driver fitting to see what’s up there.
 

Yep.   Easy equipment fix for the 165 would be to use 5 instead of 6 

[hckymeyer 6,679]

For a player of your caliber I'm guessing this is mostly a "thinking out loud" post to talk through the decision process

I'm guessing that's a typo in point 3 where you say 5w is a 172 carry, guessing that should be 9w?  Have you tried choking down a couple inches with a 3/4 swing to take off 5 yds?  I've had good luck with that over the past year once I committed to it.

For the top end I'm guessing you just need to get on a monitor and tinker.  I'm assuming you've already tried the 3w that matches the rest of your woods?  Maybe even a 4w (or 3hl) could be an option?

 

[RickyBobby_PR 10,144]

10 hours ago, revkev said:

 

Yep - these are all considerations - But so is the amount of practice time and if there’s an easy equipment fix to the 165 shot I’m grabbing it. Likewise at three wood. I want to go for a driver fitting to see what’s up there.

As to the AoA thin soles irons comment earlier I appreciate it but this is far from my first rodeo and I’ve been fit plenty enough times to know that I do better with thicker sole and more loft as I move into the middle of the bag.


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A fitting for hybrid or high lofted fw to help get the 165 distance and get some height to help hold greens could be the “easy fix”

some considerations for the 3wood would be to get something like a sim2 3hl or other brands 4wood in 16.5 degree. Possibly even play an additional 5w but with a 3w length shaft. I’ve done this with my m5 5w and first time I tried it was with a ping fitting for the top end of my bag to fit gapping. 

[revkev 25,696]

For a player of your caliber I'm guessing this is mostly a "thinking out loud" post to talk through the decision process [emoji846]
I'm guessing that's a typo in point 3 where you say 5w is a 172 carry, guessing that should be 9w?  Have you tried choking down a couple inches with a 3/4 swing to take off 5 yds?  I've had good luck with that over the past year once I committed to it.
For the top end I'm guessing you just need to get on a monitor and tinker.  I'm assuming you've already tried the 3w that matches the rest of your woods?  Maybe even a 4w (or 3hl) could be an option?
 

Yes that’s 9 wood hckymeyer - always great to hear from you and you are correct I’m sort of talking out loud but truly appreciate the feedback I’m receiving.
Functionally I do use 9 wood in that gap but it’s a bit risky especially down wind.


And @csnoil very funny, but I have tried that - I actually carry 7,6,5 iron just about the same distance so no real help there - the last time I tried a 5 iron, during the D7 forged test, I was 20 yards longer with the 9 wood.

I have tried the 3 G410 3 wood and did not hit it well. However I did not have the opportunity to monkey with the loft. 3 wood shaft length with about 16.5 might be a way to go for me. Good thought


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[Rchang 313]

For the 3/4 wood, while I got good speed numbers from both regular Mavrik and the Max, I went with the Max because of the lower edge has helped my poor turf contact. Also liked the higher spin numbers I got. 

[RickyBobby_PR 10,144]

4 hours ago, revkev said:

And @csnoil very funny, but I have tried that - I actually carry 7,6,5 iron just about the same distance so no real help there - the last time I tried a 5 iron, during the D7 forged test, I was 20 yards longer with the 9 wood.

I have tried the 3 G410 3 wood and did not hit it well. However I did not have the opportunity to monkey with the loft. 3 wood shaft length with about 16.5 might be a way to go for me. Good thought

Didn’t think about it but this post jogged the mind. Using something in the GI category or even players distance one could work took. Would just need to determine which loft(s) you would need. 
 

As an example the d7 6i could be the gap filler. Maybe something like p790, apex non pro, t200 or t300 as some other examples

[fozcycle 15,602]

My fairway woods are now 4 years old(Cobra King F8’s) But I adjusted the 3W from 14.5* to 16* and the 5W from 18* to 20*. Now I hit them just as far but with more loft and consistently straighter. I guess they are now 4W & 6W!


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[tony@CIC 22,742]

On 4/12/2021 at 9:59 AM, jlukes said:

The shallower your AoA is, the better you will do with thinner soled irons.

 

Check out this video from TXG.  Average swing speed older gentleman getting fit into irons.  Shallow AoA similar to you 

Attachment? 

[fixyurdivot 18,193]

On 4/12/2021 at 6:49 PM, revkev said:

As to the AoA thin soles irons comment earlier I appreciate it but this is far from my first rodeo and I’ve been fit plenty enough times to know that I do better with thicker sole and more loft as I move into the middle of the bag.

As one who has played thicker PE2 and G410 soles for 35 years, I sure hope my most recent fitting rodeo, and move to the ZX5's, dosen't end up with your findings .  One of the fitters told me he thought the wider soles were actually a disadvantage for me. 

In answer to your questions, a good many of us simply must account for the Father Time factor.  I cannot tell you how many of the senior snowbirds I play with who comment about distance loss.

[revkev 25,696]

All great thoughts - and of course father time is hard at work here - first it was the 2 iron gone for the 5 wood in my 30's.  Then it was the 3 iron gone for 7 wood in my 40's, 4 iron for hybrid in my 50's so here I sit broken hearted tried to... Oh wait not going there but that's a product of age, also.

 

Part of my current issue is that I have pushed back against age a bit - hitting 60 weight 210, driver SS 85.  Hitting 65 weight 170 average driver SS 93.  So based on the discussion here and elsewhere I went deep into the closet and found an old SLDR HL 3 wood hiding there.  I'm going to take that bad boy to the range Saturday morning along with my old Nicklaus 5 hybrid which of course has the loft of a current 6 hybrid.  Its nearly 20 years old so it has a stiff shaft but that may be good - I will see.

 

I had considered a bridge 6 iron - I do have the regular D7 6 as well as the Ping G30 6.  I know that the D7 has way too much offset - I hit all of those clubs left, all the time but throwing the G30 back in for that gap is a possibility, too.

 

in the meantime I shot 73 yesterday so it's not like my game is suffering terribly - I just know that the big gap between 7 iron and 9 wood is an issue - I only had one shot in that gap yesterday and of course I decided to step on a 7 into the wind - cost me shooting even.

 

 

[fixyurdivot 18,193]

6 minutes ago, revkev said:

All great thoughts - and of course father time is hard at work here - first it was the 2 iron gone for the 5 wood in my 30's.  Then it was the 3 iron gone for 7 wood in my 40's, 4 iron for hybrid in my 50's so here I sit broken hearted tried to... Oh wait not going there but that's a product of age, also.

But the cold hard truth to this sequence is that we'd have been better off had todays 5w's and 7w's been in the bag way back then .  Oh sure, nothing says "I got game" like pulling the 2i and shaping one around the trees on a dogleg left, but I can say with complete confidence my 2i was a 50% proposition at best and I absolutely love pulling my G400 5w.

[wbn 3]

For the driver get fitted for a shaft. The shaft makes more difference than most will admit. I was looking for a 3 wood and settled in for a Callaway Mavrik Max 13.5 degree. It launches like a 15 degree with more carry.

[revkev 25,696]

For the driver get fitted for a shaft. The shaft makes more difference than most will admit. I was looking for a 3 wood and settled in for a Callaway Mavrik Max 13.5 degree. It launches like a 15 degree with more carry.

I was for driver - nothing wrong with the shaft - I have 2 great driver heads and a large enough possible combination of loft, weight settings that it requires a good trackman session to dial in the right one. I hit a couple of drives over 250 yesterday and averaged 231 which tells me that much of my perceived driver issues are Florida/sea level, wet turf related. Dry weather for a month equals 15 more yards. Those yards will disappear by the end of May though.

If we are ranking this - the 165 yard gap is a huge issue that needs to be resolved. 3 wood is a wish that is obtainable with a combo of equipment and practice. Picking up much more with driver is a pipe dream.


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[TBT 3,889]

The real answer is just don’t leave yourself a 165 yard shot [emoji23]

For the 3w...I used to play with a guy a few years ago that carried a 5w in a 3w shaft....the lasted swing speed and extra loft meant that he hit that thing a mile high but it just carried forever!! Great thing was he was able to stop it on greens very easily.


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[revkev 25,696]

Okay had a wonderful range session today. Really hit the SLDR 3HL well both off the tee and the turf. It earned itself a test run for real.

Hit 7 iron great then tried two different hybrids as well as 6 iron and 9 wood - I was hitting all of those shots into the wind which is very unfair to the 9 wood.

At any rate it was very close between the 6 iron and one of the hybrids as to which I hit better but I wasn’t thrilled with the performance of either -


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[cnosil 26,307]

1 hour ago, revkev said:

Hit 7 iron great then tried two different hybrids as well as 6 iron and 9 wood - I was hitting all of those shots into the wind which is very unfair to the 9 wood.

At any rate it was very close between the 6 iron and one of the hybrids as to which I hit better but I wasn’t thrilled with the performance of either -
 

Interesting that you struggle at that spot in the bag.    Just thinking outside the box, I struggle with clubs longer than 6 which is why I switch to hybrids.   But as part of most wanted testing we have to hit 5 irons and to hit them well I need to switch my swing up a little bit and hit a fade.  This gives me a little more spin and a little more height.   Just wondering if maybe hitting the 9 wood as more of a cut shot might give you that distance.  

I was listening the the most recent hack it out podcast; which was about club fitting, and from what I recall (could be old age creeping in) Crossfield was talking about how he uses a single club for a fairly large gap and uses the swing to fill the gap.  Whether is it hitting a different shape or choking down to get that distance.    

Just a suggestion for you to try.