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Anyone ever compare new drivers to older ones on a launch monitor


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Talk to the guys with the simulators and tell them what you are looking to do and they'll probably rent you an hour of time.  The one course near us put in a couple simulators whose intent is winter leagues and lessons not club fitting.  I wanted to do some experimenting with the head weights on my G410 this winter and I talked to them about it.  The one guy is a tinkerer like me was intrigued and he charged $35 for an hour of his time running the simulator for me while I tried various combinations.  In addition to the weight experiment I tried a 10.5* head and a couple different shafts I had brought with me.  I also had time to chart the yardages of a couple hybrids / 4 iron I was sorting through for this year.  It served my purpose and was worth the $35 to me, we both had fun and ended up being closer to 1.5 hours.  He hit the G410 a few times while I rested up between rounds since he is always looking for possible 'improvements' over his SIM too.  

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Modern Bag:  Ping G410+ 9*, Accra TourZ X265 M5;  Snake Eyes 18* & 23* Hybrids; Golfsmith Tour Cavity Forged 3i;  Mizuno JPX 900 Forged 5 - PW, PX LZ 6.0;  Cleveland Tour Action 49*, 53*, 57*; PX LZ 6.5 ;  Ping Heppler Fetch;  Ball - Snell MTB-X; Bag - Sun Mountain H2NO 

Classic Bag:  Driver - Wilson Staff Persimmon; 3w - Hogan Speed Slot; 5w - Wilson Staff Tour Block; 3 - pw - Staff Dynapower; sw - Ram Tom Watson;  putter - bullseye standard or flange.

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I just did went through a driver fitting yesterday with someone using the TM 580xd. Club speed was 105-110, best ball speed was 146 and his best swing with the 580xd was 246 carry with a total of 274 with spin rates around 2500-3000. His averages were close to those numbers and he hit it consistently in the fairway with a smash factor of 1.46
 

With both the TM sim2 max and Callaway epic max LS drivers he was getting 260 -270 carry and averaging 291 total distance. He hit several with the newer clubs over 300 and ball speed was consistently over 150. A lot of the improvement came from the lower launch lower spinning shaft we had him in both models. 
 

I would recommend getting fit if you have the opportunity. The new club technology in the heads are great but you really have to pair that with a shaft that matches your swing to maximize your potential. 

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Shapotomous - I'll need to see if they'll do that. Maybe arrange to get there early or something....

ExProNY - Thanks for the info. That swing speed is consistent to what my out of shape swing currently produces. Do you remember the loft and any details on AoA\launch angle. 

 

 

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I recently got back into golf after having kids, finally school aged and some time again.  My last driver was Callaway X2 Hot Pro, which was from 2014.  Decided to book a fitting at Club Champion, booking process disaster, fitting experience great.  My club head speed was 105-108 on my old driver, new drivers I was 107-110, this swing speed 2mph increase was mostly from the new drivers having longer shafts.  Ball speeds also increased, 140’s to over 150, almost 10 mph difference.  Launch angle went down, my old driver averaged 12.9 even though it was an 8.5 degree driver.  New driver averaged 11.2 with 9.5 degree loft.  Old driver I had a spin rate average of 3,800, new driver 2,300.  I will say the spin rate and launch angle did vary even with the same new head depending on the shaft I was using.  Final shaft was a graphite design shaft, which gave me the most consistent numbers over the longest drives.  The old driver, carry average was 253, new driver carry average 271, overall old 268, new 292.  Picking up 24 yards, I will say my old Callaway driver was not an oversized head and the new low back weight with fitted shaft over off the rack recalling made a difference for me.  Although the stock shaft on the new driver only made a 14 yard difference, so fitting was key for myself.  The new driver has drastically lowered my dispersion, definitely much more forgiving for my near toe hits or low on the face hits I occasionally have over my old driver.  The old driver had one out 12 hits over 290 yards, 294 total but also had two under 250 yards total, shortest 244, so a huge dispersion.  The new driver had my shortest total at 276 and longest at 301, almost 20 yards better dispersion yard better dispersion in distance.  Left to right the new driver had only a 2 yard better dispersion over my old driver.  I’d recommend getting fitted.

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I put my 905R with a Prolaunch Red on a GC2 when the 917’s came out. My old 905R held its own! I still bought the 917...

Taylormade M6 10.5* Graphite Design Tour AD GP-6X

Taylormade SIM Ti 15* Graphite Design Tour AD DI-6X

Taylormade 2016 M2 Diamana W-Series 70X

Taylormade M6 Rescue Graphite Design Tour AD HY-85X

Callaway Apex Forged UT 22* (bent) Project X LZ 6.5 Graphite

Callaway Legacy Black (Stenson) 5-PW Project X 6.0

Vokey SM7 Black 52.08F and 60.04L Project X LZ 6.0

Scotty Cameron Futura X5R

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i can’t make a driver last much more than 20 rounds, forget about 20 years!

the longevity is impressive 

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:taylormade-small: SIM2 8º | KuroKage XT 70TX
:taylormade-small: SIM 3W 14º | Fujikura Atmos Black Tour Spec 9TX
:titelist-small: U500 2i | Fujikura Ventus HB Black 10TX
:titelist-small: T100 4-PW | Dynamic Gold X7
::vokey-small: SM6 52* SM8 56* SM8 60* | Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100
:scotty-small:  Futura 5w

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I’m playing 30 year old irons, 10 year old hybrid, wedges & Putter but Drivers always needs to be within a couple of years old - a G400 LS with an X std Ping shaft but it took buying & selling 2 to get one that stays in play consistently. I got measured in the ancient time of monitoring, I’m std lie,loft, length so off the rack with a stiffer shaft works for me. When I retire in 4 or 5 years I’ll do a whole set fitting until then I’ll probably keep what is in the bag with maybe a driver & hybrid update. Don’t hesitate on the driver - I’m hitting mine as far as I did 30 years ago.

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The sound of a long drive is so much cooler when your playing partner says “Wow”

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13 hours ago, Another Steve said:

PKC - If you don't mind telling us .... How much $$$$ do you have in that fitting and the new driver?

Around $700, if I break out a portion of the fitting for driver, did a driver plus iron fitting.  Plus an upgrade shaft, my choice out of the three recommended shafts.  One had no upgrade charge but had worse dispersion over the one I chose, probably a $150 savings though.  I also bought a 3 wood, same shaft 10 grams heavier, irons and wedges.  Only thing I kept was my putter, old Scotty Cameron I still love.    Club Champion gave me the recommendations did not force or pressure me to buy from them direct over manufacturer or another store, got an email and print out with all my info.  Both the shaft and clubs I bought and secondary options.  Club Champion was cheaper on the upgrade shaft then buying direct from the manufacturer, thanks to them buying the head and shaft separately.  With the irons they were slightly more expensive, turns out my shaft was not an upgrade fee with manufacturer and was $11 more a club with Club Champion.  Although I need midsize grips and the manufacturer charged extra for those while club champion it was standard, grip upcharge with manufacturer was $9, so in the end only a $2 per club difference and $50 driver shaft savings(figure$75 of the fitting gets added back for the driver), then add back the total fitting fee $300, driver plus iron fitting or 3 hours time.  Wound up doing irons, wedges, driver, 3 wood in 3 hours.  

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I can tell you that on the simulator the r11s was the first driver that went further than my r580, which I bought when they first came out.  At that time my swing speed was 108 and I had a Grafalloy Blue x shaft.

I've since moved up to an M3 440 driver and my spin rate is around 2500, and but moved to a Stiff instead of X shaft since my swing speed is now around 98 to 100.

Bad news is that I'm 65 now instead of 45 so I'm hitting it 20 yards shorter than I used to, I seem to lose about 5 yds a year since I turned 60

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On 4/15/2021 at 3:34 PM, Another Steve said:

I'm wanting to maybe upgrade from my old TM 580XD to something 2017 or newer, but don't have too much of an option to compare side by side at the moment. My gut tells me that I "might" see some distance just because of reduced spin and mis-hit forgiveness. I'm particularly interested in spin numbers and launch angle as I vaguely remember hitting the R580XD on a monitor over a decade ago and and what sticks in my mind are 18+* launch and 3500+spin. I did hit a Ping G425 and a Callaway Epic Speed on a monitor a couple weeks ago at a GolfGalaxy, was not a full fitting, just a test drive. Ping never felt right but they got the Callaway as close to feeling good as they could as they "said" that they had no X-Flex shafts and nothing with mid-size grips. I didn't have full confidence in the feel and didn't have a fully controlled a full swing. The end result was center hits with swing path varried 1.5* either side of straight in but optimal launch numbers. Trackman carry was a little better than real world lasered results from a round played a few days earlier.

 

Anywho.... have any of you got any numbers from side x side monitor sessions of TM R5xx series vs TM M series, Sim, Callaway Epic, Mavrik, Maybe Cobra? 

Every time I look to upgrade I always take my current driver to the fitting to do a fair comparison.  My fitter actually recommends this so we can see if we need to move forward.  He has always told me that if I do not get at least at ten yard improvement with my driver, no need to change.  At 75 years of age, distance and accuracy is important.   My current Titleist 917D2 launch angle is 14*, 93mph, 2200 spin, 132mph ball spin.....ball carry 225+ yards with about an additional 15-20+ yards of roll....passed on last TS2 model but will be testing the new TSi2.  Have heard nothing but outstanding reviews regarding distance and accuracy.  My shafts of choice are the Fujikura Tour Speeders.   Both of the Titleist Certified fitters that I use have over 30 years experience in fitting and do not work for big box stores.  I love to be able to work the ball on demand.  Slight cut and draw, plus be able to hammer it straight, low and high, due to winds coming in off the coast. 😃      

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As has been said, and wisely, you need to test it yourself.  Any new club should be tested vs your current gamer.

In general, your good strikes will not be that different in performance, assuming your old driver fits you well.  You should get better performance in heel/toe and low/high strikes.  So better dispersion and consistency/strokes gained.  But not necessarily better on your best shots or max distance. YMMV.

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8* SIM2 Custom / PX RDX Smoke Black 6.0 46.5"

15* SIM Ti / Velocore 7s

19* SIM Max Hy / GOST 39.5"

4,5 Srixon ZX5  6-P Srixon ZX7  ProjectX LZ 120 6.0

50/54/58 Cleveland Zipcore DG Tour Issue

Scotty Cameron Phantom X12, Stability Tour shaft and SuperStroke

JumboMax Ultralight Small on Driver, Golf Pride Tour Velvet (irons and MCC (woods) Mid on all others.

TP5X Pix  and -ProV1

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I did some digging and found my old post regarding a comparison with a TM M1, Cobra F7+ and the old Adams Launch Lab (released in 2012). 

I know I can't compare the new 2020/2021 releases to the Adams since I've sold it away to another lefty, but the Adams held it's own compared to the 2016 M1. I did another comparison when I bought my 2020 TM SIM with the 2017 TM M1 and saw exactly 0 yards gained between the two (using the same shaft). You probably see more forgiveness with newer drivers but unless your swing isn't matching up with the current shaft/head combo, then you might not see a huge jump in distance on well struck shots. 

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  • I'm left-handed so I don't go broke buying all new clubs every week. 
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On 4/23/2021 at 10:17 AM, txgolfjunkie said:

I did some digging and found my old post regarding a comparison with a TM M1, Cobra F7+ and the old Adams Launch Lab (released in 2012). 

I know I can't compare the new 2020/2021 releases to the Adams since I've sold it away to another lefty, but the Adams held it's own compared to the 2016 M1. I did another comparison when I bought my 2020 TM SIM with the 2017 TM M1 and saw exactly 0 yards gained between the two (using the same shaft). You probably see more forgiveness with newer drivers but unless your swing isn't matching up with the current shaft/head combo, then you might not see a huge jump in distance on well struck shots. 

I think the biggest change in driver tech in the past 10 years has been the low spin options... the SLDR was a monster because of it's low spin options (and Adams was ahead of the curve).. other than that, I think it's just a question of what shaft you are playing... I do think there have been some shaft upgrades, or at least some more variety in shafts to gain some tangible benefits from.

I was happily playing a Cobra LTD Pro until I won a Mavrik... If I hadn't felt guilty about selling the Mavrik, I would have sold it... I ended up tossing a Ventus Black into it, and it's now a monster, but I'm confident the Cobra would have been equally happy with the Ventus Black in it... (sadly, I scratched the head with an alignment stick and thus the Cobra is now resting in a place of honor in my basement).

I also think that every generation of heads has it's plusses and minuses, and if you don't think you are getting the numbers you want it's worth the time to try some new stuff... but my stock recommendation for people looking for cheap drivers is to figure out what shaft they want and then buy that and play whatever head it is attached to... 

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Mavrik 9 degree - Ventus Black 7X

Mavrik 13.5 Degree - Hazardus Smoke

Sub70 19 degree - Proforce V2 8F5

Sub70 4u - Proforce V2 8F5

Sub70 5i - DG S400

Adams CMB 6-GW - Project X 6.0

Sub70 54 (286) and 58 (JB Low Bounce) - S300

SeeMore Trimetal Mallet (Custom fit and built... Kudos to Cody)

And as always, Kudos to Craigers.

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On 4/15/2021 at 12:34 PM, Another Steve said:

I'm wanting to maybe upgrade from my old TM 580XD to something 2017 or newer, but don't have too much of an option to compare side by side at the moment. My gut tells me that I "might" see some distance just because of reduced spin and mis-hit forgiveness. I'm particularly interested in spin numbers and launch angle as I vaguely remember hitting the R580XD on a monitor over a decade ago and and what sticks in my mind are 18+* launch and 3500+spin. I did hit a Ping G425 and a Callaway Epic Speed on a monitor a couple weeks ago at a GolfGalaxy, was not a full fitting, just a test drive. Ping never felt right but they got the Callaway as close to feeling good as they could as they "said" that they had no X-Flex shafts and nothing with mid-size grips. I didn't have full confidence in the feel and didn't have a fully controlled a full swing. The end result was center hits with swing path varried 1.5* either side of straight in but optimal launch numbers. Trackman carry was a little better than real world lasered results from a round played a few days earlier.

 

Anywho.... have any of you got any numbers from side x side monitor sessions of TM R5xx series vs TM M series, Sim, Callaway Epic, Mavrik, Maybe Cobra? 

I recently upgraded out of an old TaylorMade R15 I had been using to the Callaway Mavrik Sub Zero. When I did my fitting in October, I probably hit my R15 as best as I ever had. I had tuned in the R15 to the proper loft (8*), lie angle, and had the weight track in the best place for my swing at the time. Most of the strikes were around the middle of the face and it was as consistent as I have ever been with a driver. I didn't think I could get much better until I started hitting other clubs and saw a huge spike in distance. Some of the drivers I only took a few swings with because I didn't like the feel/look.

Unfortunately, the data didn't fully upload from my first fitting, but luckily when I went back to do another iron fitting and hit some drivers, the Mavrik SZ that I was fit into the first time had very similar numbers from my first in October.

Here is my baseline with the R15

1789394698_R1510_21_2020.png.f2ce696830afb5d9039b0762cd3276ee.png

As you can see, fairly respectable and consistent, which I can say is a very rare feat for me with my driver. 

Below are the numbers for the TaylorMade SIM, Ping G410, SIM MAX, and Callaway Mavrik (just the regular, not SZ).

1915926110_SimandG41010_21_2020.png.5c1b9eb82aa22f6bd4472ee445ec1c6e.png1571102404_SimMAX10_21_2020.png.a3063177db9e36a655542d2143f18084.png

754548430_Mavrik10_21_2020.png.bf9121e0429a83333532c7961504986a.png

I think the biggest takeaway from those was that I was swinging the club slower and getting better ball speed/smash factor with higher launch, more spin, and yet more distance than the R15.

My miss with a driver is a hook, and with a draw-favoring swing and most drivers being draw-biased, my fitter/teaching pro was working on finding the best club/shaft combination that would reduce that miss. We decided I would be better with a little fade/cut occasionally if it meant reducing the hook. I immediately hit slight draws with the Mavrik SZ and went forward with that as my fit. While I am about a 12 handicap and the SZ is marketed towards the lower range, I like it because it reduces my overdrawing the ball. However, I am a 12 because I am inconsistent, so days when my driver isn't working are long days.

Here are my most recent numbers for my Mavrik SZ

1072286147_Mavrik3.6_2021.png.41380dfafc5ced7d2d4875d40a7d8e0f.png 

It was a little cooler in the morning, and I will say I was still shedding off some winter weight during this February fitting, which I attribute to the lower clubhead speed. But overall, compared to my old R15, my new Mavrik is SZ is 17 yards longer in carry distance. I've only had the Mavrik for 4 months compared to about a year I had been tweaking and hitting the R15 after getting it used.

Hope this helps!

Driver: :callaway-small: Mavrik Sub Zero 9º (Aldila Rogue White 130 MSI 60S)

3 Wood:callaway-small: Mavrik 15° (Aldila Rogue White 130 MSI 70S)

Hybrid: :callaway-small:Mavrik Pro 3 Hybrid 20° (KBS Tour Prototype 80 S)

Irons 4-PW:titelist-small: T200 (True Temper Dynamic Gold AMT Black S300)

Wedges:mizuno-small: T20 50/7 Satin (bent to 48/5); T20 54/14 Blue Ion (True Temper Tour Issue S400) 

:ping-small: Glide 3.0 Eye2 60/8 (PING Z-Z-115 by Nippon)

Putter:odyssey-small: Toulon Design Stroke Lab Las Vegas with H7 neck

Ball: :titelist-small: ProV1

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On 4/18/2021 at 11:59 AM, JohnFP said:

Bad news is that I'm 65 now instead of 45 so I'm hitting it 20 yards shorter than I used to, I seem to lose about 5 yds a year since I turned 60

I feel your pain, though I'm a few years younger.  I'm down more than 20 yards off the tee, thanks to aging and injuries.  Its rather sobering.

If I'd had something as pedestrian as my XCG7 Beta, King LTD, Fly-Z+....  available to me when I was at my peak tee game distance about a dozen years ago, my recent distance loss would be more stark.

Felt like offering a "shared misery" post.   🥴

Driver: TM Original One 11.5* set to 10*, Aldila RIP Alpha 80 X, 43.5"
3w:  Cobra King LTD, Matrix 8m3 X, 42"
2h or 3h:  TaylorMade Stage 2 Tour, Aldila NV105 S
Irons:  3-PW Mizuno MP37, Recoil Proto 125 F4 (reshaft in progress, slowly); 1-PW Vibration Matched Golden Rams, RIP Tour 115 R (reshaft project); 1i & 3-PW Golden Ram TW276, NV105 S
GW: Dynacraft Dual Milled CNC 52*, DGS300; Scratch 8620 DS 53*, Steelfiber 125 S
SW:  Ram TG-898 56*, DGX ss2x; Ram Tom Watson 55*, DGX ss2x; Wilson Staff PMP 58*, DGS; Golden Ram TW276, DGS; Golden Ram TW282, DGS; Ram Troon Grind 56*, DGS
LW:  Maltby Design 60*, 1.05 sole, DGS; Maltby Design 60* 1.05 sole, NV105
Putter:  Snake Eyes Viper Tour Sv1, 34"
Ball:  Wilson Staff Duo Professional, or TM TP5

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  • 2 weeks later...

Went to a top tracer range with a team mate and he ended up renting an old TM Bubble 2 from 1997. I hit my TM SIM2MAXD and the TM Bubble. Average ball speeds on the SIM2 were slightly higher but overall was very close. The SIM2 had longer drives for sure but average wasnt seeing a HUGE difference not like 20+ years of difference lol.

Driver : :taylormade-small: SIM2 Max 9* MC Kuro Kago Silver 60 Stiff

Woods : :benhogan-small: GS53 3 Wood 14* Mitsubish Tensei Blue 73g Regular

Hybrids: :callaway-small: XR Project X Stiff (3&4)

Irons : sub70logo.png.3c207e4e90c1eeca7b9a917b5fa4b848.png 600 Pro Black 5-AW 1* flat KBS Tour V 90 Stiff Shafts 

Wedges : File:Kirkland Signature logo.svg - Wikimedia Commons 52, 56, 60 

Putter : :taylormade-small:Spider Red

Bag : datrek-brand_1456761019__86876.original.jpg.7c24f9ae71c7730ce29a828226731487.jpg lightweight cart bag | motocaddy.jpg.258c0b46e60c2804fc6b1f64bca0aef3.jpgDry Series Bag

Ball :  :taylormade-small: TP5 PIX (2019) | Screen-Shot-2017-07-20-at-7_24.05-AM-300x118.png.9f1c4cb1d62511ee40a05bd6d5795f97.png ProV1x (2021)

Rangefinder : 836d5c8b9e44880db86abcd3b735255d.w2480_h836.jpg.bcd4050c642957abbdca7453a6cb0469.jpg ULT-X

Pushcart : Currently Testing motocaddy.jpg.258c0b46e60c2804fc6b1f64bca0aef3.jpgM5 GPS DHC Electric Push Cart

SoCal, USA

Right handed HDCP 16.4

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16 hours ago, golfish! said:

Went to a top tracer range with a team mate and he ended up renting an old TM Bubble 2 from 1997. I hit my TM SIM2MAXD and the TM Bubble. Average ball speeds on the SIM2 were slightly higher but overall was very close. The SIM2 had longer drives for sure but average wasnt seeing a HUGE difference not like 20+ years of difference lol.

This reminds me of a Youtube vid I've seen.  Guy compared a newer driver that I don't remember exactly, against a Cobra Deep Face.  Threw up some launch data at the end, talked about how much longer the newer stick was than the Cobra.

What was glossed over...  the swingspeed difference between the clubs, because of the sheer club length difference.  Such as I remember, if you compared smash factor, they were pretty equivalent.

Since I already play a 43.25" or 43.5" driver anyway, I'm going to test this myself; picked up a Deep Face clubhead, going to put it on an NV75 at 43.5" and give it some play at some point this summer.  🙂

Because, why wouldn't you?   LOL

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Driver: TM Original One 11.5* set to 10*, Aldila RIP Alpha 80 X, 43.5"
3w:  Cobra King LTD, Matrix 8m3 X, 42"
2h or 3h:  TaylorMade Stage 2 Tour, Aldila NV105 S
Irons:  3-PW Mizuno MP37, Recoil Proto 125 F4 (reshaft in progress, slowly); 1-PW Vibration Matched Golden Rams, RIP Tour 115 R (reshaft project); 1i & 3-PW Golden Ram TW276, NV105 S
GW: Dynacraft Dual Milled CNC 52*, DGS300; Scratch 8620 DS 53*, Steelfiber 125 S
SW:  Ram TG-898 56*, DGX ss2x; Ram Tom Watson 55*, DGX ss2x; Wilson Staff PMP 58*, DGS; Golden Ram TW276, DGS; Golden Ram TW282, DGS; Ram Troon Grind 56*, DGS
LW:  Maltby Design 60*, 1.05 sole, DGS; Maltby Design 60* 1.05 sole, NV105
Putter:  Snake Eyes Viper Tour Sv1, 34"
Ball:  Wilson Staff Duo Professional, or TM TP5

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