MaxEntropy Posted April 16, 2021 Share Posted April 16, 2021 Starting this thread as a placeholder for whatever we plan this year. I thought it would make it easier for some of the newer people to find. Tentatively looking at: 1) Northstar in N. Columbus (May-ish)? @Mr_Theoo to take the lead? 2) CIC Part 2 if @tony@CIC is willing to host us again? 3) Something Akron/Cleveland-ish? Anything else? Mr_Theoo, McFly, tony@CIC and 1 other 4 Quote Driver: Epic Speed 9* (set -1) MMT 70X 3W: Tour B JGR Recoil 760ES 3H, 4H: Tour B JGR 19*, 23* Recoil 780ES 4-AW: Tour B JGR HF2 Modus3 Tour 105 SW: RTX Zipcore Black Satin 54* LW: TAIII Black 58* Putter: Scottsdale TR Senita Bag: BigMax Dri Active Lite Ball: TP5x or AVX (yellow) Pushcart: BigMax iQ+ Testing Complete, Final Review Posted: Sub70 TAIII Forged Wedges Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiscipleofPenick Posted April 16, 2021 Share Posted April 16, 2021 Following. I may post some suggestions for courses I'd like to play.Take Dead Aim MaxEntropy, Haggerty and MattF 3 Quote Take Dead Aim Driver: PXG 0211 10.5* Fairway: Titleist 917 F3 15* Hybrid: Adams Idea Pro Boxer Gold 18* Irons: MacGregor MT-86 Pro Wedges: Vokey 50/54/58 Putter: SeeMore X2 Costa del Mar Ball: Srixon Z-Star Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony@CIC Posted April 16, 2021 Share Posted April 16, 2021 I'm ready for CIC V2, any recommendations for when? June, July, August? Edit: there are a bunch of Ohio newbies that have signed onto MGS since last year = we should try and reach out to them as well. Mr_Theoo, Haggerty, jrodking11 and 2 others 5 Quote Left Hand orientation SIM 2 D Max with Fujikura Air Speeder Shaft Cobra Radspeed 3W/RIptide Shaft 410 Hybrids 22*, 26* Cobra Speed Zone 6-GP/Recoil ESX 460 F3 Shafts SM7 54* Wedge Glide 3.0 60* Wedge O Works putter V3 NX9-HD - 4 Wheel EZGO TXT 48v cart - too many shoes to list and so many to buy And BAG Boy Golf Balls: Vice Pro Plus 2020 Official Tester Beginning Driver Speed - 78 2019 Official Tester 410 Driver 2018 Official Tester C300 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lakeeriegolfer Posted April 16, 2021 Share Posted April 16, 2021 Big in on this. Looking forward to a jam packed golf summer and getting back out again with you guys. I picked up the Bunker Hill March-April membership so I have only played there so far and can't wait to branch out. MaxEntropy, tony@CIC and MattF 3 Quote Driver: Taylormade Rocketballz 9* Stock. 3-Wood: Callaway Epic Sub-Zero, 15*. Hybrid: Sub70 949x Pro 19*. Irons: Taylormade rac LT 3-PW. Wedges: Vokey F-Grind 52*, 58*. Putter: Rife 2-Bar Blade Putter. Pro V1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattF Posted April 16, 2021 Share Posted April 16, 2021 I'm down...but you knew that already. MaxEntropy and tony@CIC 2 Quote In the bag: Driver: Darkspeed X 9° UST Mamiya LIN-Q M40X Blue 7F4 Fairway: Apex UW 19° & 21° Project X HZRDUS Smoke RDX Black 5.5 Irons: JPX 923 HMP 5-PW UST Mamiya Recoil 95 F4 Wedges: T-22 Denim Copper 48°, 52° & 56° UST Mamiya Recoil 95 F4 Putter Sycamore 005 Wide Blade Bag: Fairway 14 stand bag Balls: Chrome Tour Cart: CaddyLite ONE Ver. 8 God Bless America, God save the King, God defend New Zealand and thank Christ for Australia! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiscipleofPenick Posted April 16, 2021 Share Posted April 16, 2021 Ok so I also have a ton of vacation to use before the end of May. Does anyone have weekdays free or vacation to use? I can look for good weather and set some stuff up, I'm willing to travel around the area.Take Dead Aim Haggerty, MaxEntropy and tony@CIC 3 Quote Take Dead Aim Driver: PXG 0211 10.5* Fairway: Titleist 917 F3 15* Hybrid: Adams Idea Pro Boxer Gold 18* Irons: MacGregor MT-86 Pro Wedges: Vokey 50/54/58 Putter: SeeMore X2 Costa del Mar Ball: Srixon Z-Star Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattF Posted April 16, 2021 Share Posted April 16, 2021 Just now, DiscipleofPenick said: Ok so I also have a ton of vacation to use before the end of May. Does anyone have weekdays free or vacation to use? I can look for good weather and set some stuff up, I'm willing to travel around the area. Take Dead Aim I may be able to, with some notice. MaxEntropy and tony@CIC 2 Quote In the bag: Driver: Darkspeed X 9° UST Mamiya LIN-Q M40X Blue 7F4 Fairway: Apex UW 19° & 21° Project X HZRDUS Smoke RDX Black 5.5 Irons: JPX 923 HMP 5-PW UST Mamiya Recoil 95 F4 Wedges: T-22 Denim Copper 48°, 52° & 56° UST Mamiya Recoil 95 F4 Putter Sycamore 005 Wide Blade Bag: Fairway 14 stand bag Balls: Chrome Tour Cart: CaddyLite ONE Ver. 8 God Bless America, God save the King, God defend New Zealand and thank Christ for Australia! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiscipleofPenick Posted April 16, 2021 Share Posted April 16, 2021 Of course, I can probably give a few days, that's mostly because we won't know if we're gonna have nice weather a week in advance. Is there a day that's usually good? I may be able to, with some notice.Take Dead Aim MaxEntropy and tony@CIC 2 Quote Take Dead Aim Driver: PXG 0211 10.5* Fairway: Titleist 917 F3 15* Hybrid: Adams Idea Pro Boxer Gold 18* Irons: MacGregor MT-86 Pro Wedges: Vokey 50/54/58 Putter: SeeMore X2 Costa del Mar Ball: Srixon Z-Star Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxEntropy Posted April 16, 2021 Author Share Posted April 16, 2021 1 hour ago, DiscipleofPenick said: Ok so I also have a ton of vacation to use before the end of May. Does anyone have weekdays free or vacation to use? I can look for good weather and set some stuff up, I'm willing to travel around the area. Take Dead Aim Can generally get away for a morning or afternoon round. Prefer any day but Tuesday since that's league night. tony@CIC and DiscipleofPenick 2 Quote Driver: Epic Speed 9* (set -1) MMT 70X 3W: Tour B JGR Recoil 760ES 3H, 4H: Tour B JGR 19*, 23* Recoil 780ES 4-AW: Tour B JGR HF2 Modus3 Tour 105 SW: RTX Zipcore Black Satin 54* LW: TAIII Black 58* Putter: Scottsdale TR Senita Bag: BigMax Dri Active Lite Ball: TP5x or AVX (yellow) Pushcart: BigMax iQ+ Testing Complete, Final Review Posted: Sub70 TAIII Forged Wedges Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattF Posted April 16, 2021 Share Posted April 16, 2021 1 hour ago, DiscipleofPenick said: Of course, I can probably give a few days, that's mostly because we won't know if we're gonna have nice weather a week in advance. Is there a day that's usually good? Take Dead Aim Not really, I just need to see if anyone else is off that day since we have been reduced by 2 people in our department. DiscipleofPenick and tony@CIC 2 Quote In the bag: Driver: Darkspeed X 9° UST Mamiya LIN-Q M40X Blue 7F4 Fairway: Apex UW 19° & 21° Project X HZRDUS Smoke RDX Black 5.5 Irons: JPX 923 HMP 5-PW UST Mamiya Recoil 95 F4 Wedges: T-22 Denim Copper 48°, 52° & 56° UST Mamiya Recoil 95 F4 Putter Sycamore 005 Wide Blade Bag: Fairway 14 stand bag Balls: Chrome Tour Cart: CaddyLite ONE Ver. 8 God Bless America, God save the King, God defend New Zealand and thank Christ for Australia! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Theoo Posted April 17, 2021 Share Posted April 17, 2021 8 hours ago, DiscipleofPenick said: Ok so I also have a ton of vacation to use before the end of May. Does anyone have weekdays free or vacation to use? I can look for good weather and set some stuff up, I'm willing to travel around the area. Take Dead Aim I should be able to. I also have a lot of vacation time I need to use MattF and tony@CIC 2 Quote Driver: Epic 10.5 set to 9.5 w/ Tour AD-DI 44.5 FW: F6 baffler set at 16º Hybrid: NONEIrons: 3i 2014 TP CB 4-PW 2011 TP MC w/ TT S400 Wedges: 52º 56º 60 º w/ KBS C-Taper XS Soft-stepped Putter: Sigma G Tyne 34 inches Gold dot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haggerty Posted April 17, 2021 Share Posted April 17, 2021 22 hours ago, DiscipleofPenick said: Ok so I also have a ton of vacation to use before the end of May. Does anyone have weekdays free or vacation to use? I can look for good weather and set some stuff up, I'm willing to travel around the area. Take Dead Aim I work 4 -10's and have monday's off so I could do monday's no issue. tony@CIC and MattF 2 Quote Driver: Callaway Epic MAX LS (10.5º played as 9.5) 3W: Cobra SZ tour (14º) 3-PW: Mizuno MP-20 HMB 52,56: Cobra MIM 63 - Wilson Staff Model HT Putter: EvnRoll ER-6 Ball: Pro V1 Arccos Tracking on all clubs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fixyurdivot Posted April 18, 2021 Share Posted April 18, 2021 Sterling, CO is listed as the midpoint between Columbus, OH and Bend, OR... just saying. palvord, MattF, MaxEntropy and 1 other 4 Quote G410 Plus, 9 Degree Driver G400 SFT, 16 Degree 3w G400 SFT, 19 Degree 5w ZX5 Irons 4-AW Glide 2.0 56 Degree SW (removed from double secret probation ) ER5v Putter (Official Review) AI-One Milled Seven T CH (Official Review) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiscipleofPenick Posted April 18, 2021 Share Posted April 18, 2021 Where do you live? (approximate) We can PM if you want. I work 4 -10's and have monday's off so I could do monday's no issue. Take Dead Aim Quote Take Dead Aim Driver: PXG 0211 10.5* Fairway: Titleist 917 F3 15* Hybrid: Adams Idea Pro Boxer Gold 18* Irons: MacGregor MT-86 Pro Wedges: Vokey 50/54/58 Putter: SeeMore X2 Costa del Mar Ball: Srixon Z-Star Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrodking11 Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 On 4/16/2021 at 10:53 AM, tony@CIC said: Edit: there are a bunch of Ohio newbies that have signed onto MGS since last year = we should try and reach out to them as well. I am one of these newbies who will hopefully be playing. It all depends on when we are playing. Currently the end of September and early October is not looking good for me but other than that I hope to make an appearance. MaxEntropy and tony@CIC 2 Quote Driver: TS2, Project X EvenFlow T1100 White shaft 5W: S3, Blur S shaft 3H: G410, ALTA CB RED GRAPHITE S shaft Irons: JPX 919 Hot Metal 4 - PW, Nippon Modus Pro 120 S shafts Wedges: Vokey Spin Milled 56-08 Vokey SM7 60 - 14K Putter: Huntington Beach Soft 11 Ball: Z-Star Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony@CIC Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 37 minutes ago, jrodking11 said: I am one of these newbies who will hopefully be playing. It all depends on when we are playing. Currently the end of September and early October is not looking good for me but other than that I hope to make an appearance. Newbies are always welcome. We'll probably do Catawba Island Club sometime between late Jume and early August. MattF, DiscipleofPenick, MaxEntropy and 2 others 5 Quote Left Hand orientation SIM 2 D Max with Fujikura Air Speeder Shaft Cobra Radspeed 3W/RIptide Shaft 410 Hybrids 22*, 26* Cobra Speed Zone 6-GP/Recoil ESX 460 F3 Shafts SM7 54* Wedge Glide 3.0 60* Wedge O Works putter V3 NX9-HD - 4 Wheel EZGO TXT 48v cart - too many shoes to list and so many to buy And BAG Boy Golf Balls: Vice Pro Plus 2020 Official Tester Beginning Driver Speed - 78 2019 Official Tester 410 Driver 2018 Official Tester C300 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobybtlr Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 I’m new to this site. I’d be interested in playing. I’ve followed this site for sometime. I read the equipment reviews. I live outside Columbus. Ohio in general has some great golf courses and I’m always looking for people to play golf with tony@CIC, MattF and MaxEntropy 3 Quote Tobybtlr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lakeeriegolfer Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 Definitely sounding like something between Columbus and Cleveland is the way to go for one of these outings. Mohican Hills, Hawk's Nest, Deer Ridge, etc. tony@CIC and MaxEntropy 2 Quote Driver: Taylormade Rocketballz 9* Stock. 3-Wood: Callaway Epic Sub-Zero, 15*. Hybrid: Sub70 949x Pro 19*. Irons: Taylormade rac LT 3-PW. Wedges: Vokey F-Grind 52*, 58*. Putter: Rife 2-Bar Blade Putter. Pro V1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiscipleofPenick Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 Yes to all those, Ashland CC is now public and supposed to be very nice Definitely sounding like something between Columbus and Cleveland is the way to go for one of these outings. Mohican Hills, Hawk's Nest, Deer Ridge, etc. Take Dead Aim tony@CIC and MaxEntropy 2 Quote Take Dead Aim Driver: PXG 0211 10.5* Fairway: Titleist 917 F3 15* Hybrid: Adams Idea Pro Boxer Gold 18* Irons: MacGregor MT-86 Pro Wedges: Vokey 50/54/58 Putter: SeeMore X2 Costa del Mar Ball: Srixon Z-Star Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxEntropy Posted April 21, 2021 Author Share Posted April 21, 2021 3 hours ago, Lakeeriegolfer said: Definitely sounding like something between Columbus and Cleveland is the way to go for one of these outings. Mohican Hills, Hawk's Nest, Deer Ridge, etc. I'll pass on that.... @MattF, @Mr_Theoo, my friend Mike, and I played there a couple summers ago. It was garbage! The layout seemed pretty nice but the course conditions were a joke. Have you played there recently? MattF and tony@CIC 2 Quote Driver: Epic Speed 9* (set -1) MMT 70X 3W: Tour B JGR Recoil 760ES 3H, 4H: Tour B JGR 19*, 23* Recoil 780ES 4-AW: Tour B JGR HF2 Modus3 Tour 105 SW: RTX Zipcore Black Satin 54* LW: TAIII Black 58* Putter: Scottsdale TR Senita Bag: BigMax Dri Active Lite Ball: TP5x or AVX (yellow) Pushcart: BigMax iQ+ Testing Complete, Final Review Posted: Sub70 TAIII Forged Wedges Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattF Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 I'm with @MaxEntropy on that. Mohican Hills should have been paying us to be there, it was hot garbage. MaxEntropy and tony@CIC 2 Quote In the bag: Driver: Darkspeed X 9° UST Mamiya LIN-Q M40X Blue 7F4 Fairway: Apex UW 19° & 21° Project X HZRDUS Smoke RDX Black 5.5 Irons: JPX 923 HMP 5-PW UST Mamiya Recoil 95 F4 Wedges: T-22 Denim Copper 48°, 52° & 56° UST Mamiya Recoil 95 F4 Putter Sycamore 005 Wide Blade Bag: Fairway 14 stand bag Balls: Chrome Tour Cart: CaddyLite ONE Ver. 8 God Bless America, God save the King, God defend New Zealand and thank Christ for Australia! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobybtlr Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 I’ve got a group golfer from Ashland CC. I’m looking forward to playing it. I enjoy playing different golf courses and I’m definitely willing to drive somewhere and play. A few years ago about 30 guys from GolfWrx played 3 outings around Ohio in the summer. It was fun. If something got set up I’d probably be able to round up a few guys that would also be interested in playing tony@CIC 1 Quote Tobybtlr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lakeeriegolfer Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 (edited) Oh wow, I didn't get that at all from Mohican. Played it twice last year, once at the end of September and it seemed like it was in fine shape for a muni course. Greens always really fast and smooth. I played with a guy who told me they were sold back in 2018, so maybe it took them a year or two to get it back in good shape. The distance from my house is all that stops me from playing it once a week. A beautiful manicured country club it is not. There are definitely some burned out spots, but I thought it was a really cool and challenging routings with great greens. Edited April 21, 2021 by Lakeeriegolfer typo tony@CIC 1 Quote Driver: Taylormade Rocketballz 9* Stock. 3-Wood: Callaway Epic Sub-Zero, 15*. Hybrid: Sub70 949x Pro 19*. Irons: Taylormade rac LT 3-PW. Wedges: Vokey F-Grind 52*, 58*. Putter: Rife 2-Bar Blade Putter. Pro V1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrodking11 Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 1 hour ago, MaxEntropy said: I'll pass on that.... @MattF, @Mr_Theoo, my friend Mike, and I played there a couple summers ago. It was garbage! The layout seemed pretty nice but the course conditions were a joke. Have you played there recently? Agreed on this @MaxEntropy. Mohican Hills and Hawk's Nest have both gone down hill a lot over the past 10 years and I wouldn't recommend them to anyone anymore other than just a normal course that's nothing special. Can't speak on Dear Ridge though as I haven't played it in a long time. tony@CIC and MaxEntropy 2 Quote Driver: TS2, Project X EvenFlow T1100 White shaft 5W: S3, Blur S shaft 3H: G410, ALTA CB RED GRAPHITE S shaft Irons: JPX 919 Hot Metal 4 - PW, Nippon Modus Pro 120 S shafts Wedges: Vokey Spin Milled 56-08 Vokey SM7 60 - 14K Putter: Huntington Beach Soft 11 Ball: Z-Star Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lakeeriegolfer Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 This is wild, I honestly think those two courses are great and in my top ten in the area for both quality and value, Hawks Nest especially. Maybe I have much lower standards, but I think I have played a very diverse realm of courses to know what really nice (Portage CC, Oberlin GC) and really bad (Pine Brook, Mallard) are. tony@CIC 1 Quote Driver: Taylormade Rocketballz 9* Stock. 3-Wood: Callaway Epic Sub-Zero, 15*. Hybrid: Sub70 949x Pro 19*. Irons: Taylormade rac LT 3-PW. Wedges: Vokey F-Grind 52*, 58*. Putter: Rife 2-Bar Blade Putter. Pro V1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxEntropy Posted April 21, 2021 Author Share Posted April 21, 2021 49 minutes ago, Lakeeriegolfer said: This is wild, I honestly think those two courses are great and in my top ten in the area for both quality and value, Hawks Nest especially. Maybe I have much lower standards, but I think I have played a very diverse realm of courses to know what really nice (Portage CC, Oberlin GC) and really bad (Pine Brook, Mallard) are. Maybe we caught Mohican at a bad time? As I recall, it was early September after a hot summer and many of the greens were burned out and had crusty bare spots. Plenty of places in the fairways had gone native, too. I'm not super picky either - I've played Raccoon Hill enough to know it is mostly a goat track, but I still play it and have fun. tony@CIC 1 Quote Driver: Epic Speed 9* (set -1) MMT 70X 3W: Tour B JGR Recoil 760ES 3H, 4H: Tour B JGR 19*, 23* Recoil 780ES 4-AW: Tour B JGR HF2 Modus3 Tour 105 SW: RTX Zipcore Black Satin 54* LW: TAIII Black 58* Putter: Scottsdale TR Senita Bag: BigMax Dri Active Lite Ball: TP5x or AVX (yellow) Pushcart: BigMax iQ+ Testing Complete, Final Review Posted: Sub70 TAIII Forged Wedges Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiscipleofPenick Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 Right there is lots of hot garbage on the westside of Cleveland. I thought Mohican Hills was a state park, so I'm not sure how it was sold. And I grew up 10 minutes from Punderson, another state park, and that course was always in very nice shape. Hawk's Nest was good shape and a really fun layout, but it's been about 3 years. This is wild, I honestly think those two courses are great and in my top ten in the area for both quality and value, Hawks Nest especially. Maybe I have much lower standards, but I think I have played a very diverse realm of courses to know what really nice (Portage CC, Oberlin GC) and really bad (Pine Brook, Mallard) are.Take Dead Aim tony@CIC 1 Quote Take Dead Aim Driver: PXG 0211 10.5* Fairway: Titleist 917 F3 15* Hybrid: Adams Idea Pro Boxer Gold 18* Irons: MacGregor MT-86 Pro Wedges: Vokey 50/54/58 Putter: SeeMore X2 Costa del Mar Ball: Srixon Z-Star Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiscipleofPenick Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 God do I hate that stupid course. They left all this open area in the middle as they're dumb af happy grass then cram 3 or 4 holes into a corner of the property where there should be one Maybe we caught Mohican at a bad time? As I recall, it was early September after a hot summer and many of the greens were burned out and had crusty bare spots. Plenty of places in the fairways had gone native, too. I'm not super picky either - I've played Raccoon Hill enough to know it is mostly a goat track, but I still play it and have fun.Take Dead Aim tony@CIC, RollingGreens and MaxEntropy 3 Quote Take Dead Aim Driver: PXG 0211 10.5* Fairway: Titleist 917 F3 15* Hybrid: Adams Idea Pro Boxer Gold 18* Irons: MacGregor MT-86 Pro Wedges: Vokey 50/54/58 Putter: SeeMore X2 Costa del Mar Ball: Srixon Z-Star Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Theoo Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 14 hours ago, MaxEntropy said: I'll pass on that.... @MattF, @Mr_Theoo, my friend Mike, and I played there a couple summers ago. It was garbage! The layout seemed pretty nice but the course conditions were a joke. Have you played there recently? Yea, I’ll quit golf before I ever play there again RollingGreens and tony@CIC 2 Quote Driver: Epic 10.5 set to 9.5 w/ Tour AD-DI 44.5 FW: F6 baffler set at 16º Hybrid: NONEIrons: 3i 2014 TP CB 4-PW 2011 TP MC w/ TT S400 Wedges: 52º 56º 60 º w/ KBS C-Taper XS Soft-stepped Putter: Sigma G Tyne 34 inches Gold dot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haggerty Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 On 4/17/2021 at 8:37 PM, DiscipleofPenick said: Where do you live? (approximate) We can PM if you want. Take Dead Aim I am in Cleveland Area (Independence) pretty much directly in the middle of both west and east side. tony@CIC and MaxEntropy 2 Quote Driver: Callaway Epic MAX LS (10.5º played as 9.5) 3W: Cobra SZ tour (14º) 3-PW: Mizuno MP-20 HMB 52,56: Cobra MIM 63 - Wilson Staff Model HT Putter: EvnRoll ER-6 Ball: Pro V1 Arccos Tracking on all clubs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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