Arm Lock Putting Should Be Illegal

[GolferXY]

10 minutes ago, chisag said:

Yup, I think the ball "settled" down on those greens and a pop stroke helped get the ball out of its resting place. Of course they were a lot slower too. There were certainly some great putters that used a wristy stroke back in the day. 

Good point.  I saw a related video to the above talking about how Arnie had trouble with speed control on his longer/lag putts due to his wristy stroke.  Maybe, maybe not.  There's a lot involved with sussing out the right speed on a 35 footer, down hill the first half then uphill the second, with a bit of turn at the end.  To your point about the yips, I say "yeps".  I have them and even though I went to a broomstick I still sweat those 4 and 5 footers.  Its between the ears mostly, but I have noticed the nerves are breaking down too.  They say getting old is tough, wear a helmet.  Do you think I'd look odd wearing one with my weekly group? 

[Vertical]

I don’t believe golf suffers from having too few rules. Let us play without the ruling bodies up our shorts.

[bens197]

Armlock is one of the most difficult styles I've ever tried.  If anyone wants to use it, go for it.  I would argue it's anchoring however it isn't as simple as attaching a club to your arm.  It takes a LOT of work and if you're willing to put in the work, feel free.  It's not for me.

[GolferXY]

Please explain to me why there should be ANY rules regarding how you can or cannot wield a golf club, whether putter, driver, iron....whatever.  The aim of the sport is to get the little ball into the little hole in as few strokes as possible using an implement.  If I'm holding the putter in my teeth and kicking the putterhead to put the ball in the hole, who am I hurting?  If it works really well - let me tell you, it is a great system - I can teach you how to do it, too.  I'll post it on YouTube and start a lucrative business building teeth kicking putters and special teeth kicker putter grips shaped like a dental dam...hey they'll be multifunctional!...and I'll bet you'll be kicking putters in no time.  You might even make it on tour.  Can we be serious?

Now, if you pull out a Rodney Dangerfield putter like he used in Caddy Shack with radar and laser aiming and a robotic arm to assist in determining putt speed, I may have to draw the line.  Come on!  As others have said in this [3 year old] thread, if it worked for everybody, everybody would be using it.  Even the best putter or putting style won't work for everybody.  Next they'll say lie angle balancing is unfair.   You will tear my L.A.B. from my cold dead hands on that day!  Why are people calling for penalizing players who have determined a way to improve their own game?  How does it affect fairness?  I'm baffled.  Please tell what I'm missing here.  If Billy Horshel doesn't like it, he doesn't have to use it.  

20 years ago a company came out with a driver that would use a shotgun shell to launch the ball off the tee, went about 220 yards as I recall.  Rick Shiels made a video of it a couple years ago.  Priceless!  Now banning that I understand.  It replaces the physical act of swinging the golf club and thereby diminishes the game.  But a putting style?

Tradition?  Fairness?  Embarrassing the other guys in your foresome with your off-the-wall putter or putting style?  What is the reason for caring about this?  For any of you tempted to argue about what the rules say, please take note that I'm not talking about the rule itself, but the reason for the rule in the first place.

 

[chisag]

2 hours ago, GolferXY said:

Please explain to me why there should be ANY rules regarding how you can or cannot wield a golf club, whether putter, driver, iron....whatever.

 

2 hours ago, GolferXY said:

please take note that I'm not talking about the rule itself, but the reason for the rule in the first place.

 

 

... I think for casual golf, folks can and do make their own rules. If I played with someone that had a surgically repaired back and couldn't bend over very much I would have zero problem with him anchoring his putter any way it helped. But I think tournament golf is a different animal.

... Nerves play a big part in top level competition and some developed the yips with their putter. Anchoring the putter against their belly with the butt end or anchoring with your hand against your chest can help with shaking hands from nerves. In my opinion, over coming those nerves is part of what makes a champion a Champion. If it were easy, everyone would make more putts in Majors down the stretch. Did nerves come into pay for Rory last week? As Tiger said he is still nervous when he competes and the day he isn't, he will quit playing. 

... I would add as @bens197 stated, just because it can help overcome the yips and shaky hands, doesn't mean it gives everyone an advantage. Putting is the absolute strength of my game and not trying to get calluses patting myself on the back   but I get compliments on it quite often because my arms hang naturally and I have a silky smooth stroke. I tried putting with a long putter anchored to my chest and I putted horribly. Same with an arm lock, just no feel at all and again I putted horribly. I don't think either give anyone an advantage unless they have the yips. 

[GolferXY]

14 hours ago, chisag said:

it can help overcome the yips and shaky hands, doesn't mean it gives everyone an advantage.

Ok, good point.  As someone who's hands are a bit shaky - some progressive nerve thing - anchoring would help a lot.  I switched to a broomstick but don't anchor and it's improved my putting probably 5 or 6 putts a round.  I follow the rules even in casual play, but if they ban the broomie, that is the day I defy the rule makers and stop playing competitive golf.  Still and again, there are and have been numerous great putters who locked in the putter by locking the elbows into the ribs.  Watch Arnie, early Jack, the Black Knight all locking their elbows to ribs and doing the wrist flip.  How does this differ from an arm lock or broomstick anchoring?

[NM01]

19 minutes ago, GolferXY said:

Ok, good point.  As someone who's hands are a bit shaky - some progressive nerve thing - anchoring would help a lot.  I switched to a broomstick but don't anchor and it's improved my putting probably 5 or 6 putts a round.  I follow the rules even in casual play, but if they ban the broomie, that is the day I defy the rule makers and stop playing competitive golf.  Still and again, there are and have been numerous great putters who locked in the putter by locking the elbows into the ribs.  Watch Arnie, early Jack, the Black Knight all locking their elbows to ribs and doing the wrist flip.  How does this differ from an arm lock or broomstick anchoring?

Jack and Arnie are far from having their elbows locked to the ribs you can see in their stroke separation of the arms from the body.

They had less of a shoulder or even elbow move in the stroke seen today beaches the greens they played on that type of pop stroke worked. Their elbows are pinned to the body. 
 

What’s different about how they putted compared to anchoring is their forearms aren’t creating an anchor point. The hands aren’t separated and they also worked independently of one another.

All of this is explained in rule 141b if you want to dive into what anchoring is and what’s allowed and what’s not

Edited June 27 by RickyBobby_PR

[GolfSpy_APH]

[d.lama]

45 minutes ago, GolferXY said:

  Still and again, there are and have been numerous great putters who locked in the putter by locking the elbows into the ribs.  Watch Arnie, early Jack, the Black Knight all locking their elbows to ribs and doing the wrist flip.  How does this differ from an arm lock or broomstick anchoring?

That's not what the ban is though. The closest thing to what you're thinking is in the below image, you can't anchor your forearm to your chest as a mechanical lever point - Arnie, Jack, nor Player did that in their stroke. 

[GolferXY]

I know, and thanks for the pics. Excellent, never seen that before. As I said in my original post, I'm not arguing the rule, but don't understand the perception that the rule even needs to exist. What is the rationale? 

[GolferXY]

7 hours ago, d.lama said:

That's not what the ban is though. The closest thing to what you're thinking is in the below image, you can't anchor your forearm to your chest as a mechanical lever point - Arnie, Jack, nor Player did that in their stroke. 

And not to be argumentative, I said elbows.

[cnosil]

9 hours ago, GolferXY said:

I know, and thanks for the pics. Excellent, never seen that before. As I said in my original post, I'm not arguing the rule, but don't understand the perception that the rule even needs to exist. What is the rationale? 

The “rationale” was that the ruling bodies did not believe that when a club is anchored to the body that the player is making stroke.  They were clarifying the definition of stroke.  

[DaveP043]

18 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

All of this is explained in rule 141b

A very minor correct, Rule 10b

[NM01]

46 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

A very minor correct, Rule 10b

Thanks 

[mynerds]

On 6/27/2024 at 2:16 PM, d.lama said:

As the resident dummy, thanks for sharing this image! I had considered getting a broomstick to play around with but I'll pass after seeing this clarification that holding the forearm to the body is prohibited.

One scenario I don't see here - in "Grip Resting against Forearm", if one were to brace the grip with their right hand against their forearm, that would be prohibited correct?

Also, I'm fully prepared to attach my pitchfork to the top of my Odyssey 2-Ball Ten arm lock.

[NM01]

38 minutes ago, mynerds said:

As the resident dummy, thanks for sharing this image! I had considered getting a broomstick to play around with but I'll pass after seeing this clarification that holding the forearm to the body is prohibited.

One scenario I don't see here - in "Grip Resting against Forearm", if one were to brace the grip with their right hand against their forearm, that would be prohibited correct?

Also, I'm fully prepared to attach my pitchfork to the top of my Odyssey 2-Ball Ten arm lock.

The rulebook has images of showing what’s legal and what’s not. Give it a look and see if what you are describing is legal or not 

[cnosil]

2 hours ago, mynerds said:

 

One scenario I don't see here - in "Grip Resting against Forearm", if one were to brace the grip with their right hand against their forearm, that would be prohibited correct?

 

 

See note one in the image that was posted.  You can also see Page 3 of this: https://www.usga.org/content/dam/usga/images/rules/anchoring/814RevFINAL.pdf

 

[Cuzy51]

I hate it

I believe everyone should have to putt exactly the same, flat front putter grip and two hands on the grip, if you are struggling with that, then see a PGA Professional for help

I had the same thing in the bowling world with these two handers, don’t read me wrong, those people are very talented, but again it should be uniform

maybe I am old school but it should be the same for all

[NM01]

3 hours ago, Cuzy51 said:

I hate it

I believe everyone should have to putt exactly the same, flat front putter grip and two hands on the grip, if you are struggling with that, then see a PGA Professional for help

I had the same thing in the bowling world with these two handers, don’t read me wrong, those people are very talented, but again it should be uniform

maybe I am old school but it should be the same for all

Nothing in the golf swing is uniform. We all have unique swings, we use different lofts, lies, lengths. Each swing is unique.

Same with putting we have different styles between mallets (several designs), mid mallets, two ball, one ball, 8802, various anser style, different lengths, lies, lofts, weights, putter grip, grip style, various degrees of face rotation. Pop stroke, same distance back and through, shorter through stroke.

 

[JoeLafives]

Have you ever noticed that laws and rules are designed to control "other" people.  We never make laws/rules to restrict ourselves. 

[Cuzy51]

Yes, absolutely should be illegal, the putter grip should be mandatory,both hands on the grip, no other part of the body cannot be used. 

[chisag]

8 minutes ago, Cuzy51 said:

Yes, absolutely should be illegal, the putter grip should be mandatory,both hands on the grip, no other part of the body cannot be used. 

 

... In theory I agree with you, at least for Professional Golfers. That said there are people with physical issues and a long putter enables them to play the game. Not so sure about Arm Locking but in the end you still have to read the line, get the speed to match that read and stroke the ball with a consistent face angle. So as much as I would like to see two hands on one grip, I think there are just too many exceptions to make it that black and white. 

[Cuzy51]

Maybe I am old school, but it should be exactly the same way for everyone, sure going out with your buds, I don’t really care if you putt between your legs, but in competition or say outings, all should be the same 

[NM01]

1 minute ago, Cuzy51 said:

Maybe I am old school, but it should be exactly the same way for everyone, sure going out with your buds, I don’t really care if you putt between your legs, but in competition or say outings, all should be the same 

Nothing in golf is the same way for everyone. Some have longer irons than others because body leverages and how they swing, people use different lie angles, different lofts even if in the same iron model.

Some use malllet, some use anser style, some use 8802 style putters, lie and loft are different for each golfer.

Different wedge setups, how the wedges are used. This isn’t just something new it’s been different for everyone for awhile. 

people play the course different based on their strengths and weakness. You have those who use lots of bump and runs, some who putt from way off the green, those who fly it to the hole.

What some people want is to dictate how golf should be payed based on their biases and preferences which is nothing more than gate keeping the game and not letting it grow and advance 

[chisag]

5 minutes ago, Cuzy51 said:

Maybe I am old school, but it should be exactly the same way for everyone, sure going out with your buds, I don’t really care if you putt between your legs, but in competition or say outings, all should be the same 

 

... Haha I am old school as well but the USGA says our opinions and $9.47 gets you a cup of coffee at Starbucks. 

[Cuzy51]

28 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Nothing in golf is the same way for everyone. Some have longer irons than others because body leverages and how they swing, people use different lie angles, different lofts even if in the same iron model.

Some use malllet, some use anser style, some use 8802 style putters, lie and loft are different for each golfer.

Different wedge setups, how the wedges are used. This isn’t just something new it’s been different for everyone for awhile. 

people play the course different based on their strengths and weakness. You have those who use lots of bump and runs, some who putt from way off the green, those who fly it to the hole.

What some people want is to dictate how golf should be payed based on their biases and preferences which is nothing more than gate keeping the game and not letting it grow and advance 

We are talking putting

I really don’t care if it is a 24 in putter or 60 in 

I am saying a flat front putter grip which requires only your two hands on the grip

as far as irons to each there own 

[Cuzy51]

54 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... Haha I am old school as well but the USGA says our opinions and $9.47 gets you a cup of coffee at Starbucks. 

I’ll take that cup of coffee

[cnosil]

18 hours ago, Cuzy51 said:

We are talking putting

I really don’t care if it is a 24 in putter or 60 in 

I am saying a flat front putter grip which requires only your two hands on the grip

as far as irons to each there own 

Just personal opinion or is there something you think it does?  Why flat front putter grip; all the others are round?   Why can't I putt one handed?   People have been anchoring putters since at least the 1920s.  If you don't care about the length, why does how a player holds the putter matter?   
 

if you don’t like how someone is putting the simple answer is putt how you want, practice harder, and simply shoot the lowest score and beat that player. 

Edited July 12 by cnosil

[SRG53]

Totally agree. Also see players at my club anchoring the broomstick. Not a putting stroke

[ryan.mzzz]

On 4/19/2021 at 11:51 AM, DaveP043 said:

Maybe @LICC should write his own rules, starting from scratch.  There are certainly a bunch that he thinks need to be changed.

i don’t want armlock banned, and I agree that the rules of golf are almost impossible to write so that they account for all situations, maintain fairness, and are understandable, but this certainly seems like a loophole in the rules.

anchoring to the arm is perhaps less of an impactful anchoring point than a belly or chest anchor, since those enable an (almost true) pendulum stroke, but anchoring to the arm is still an anchor. so is anchoring against the rules? sometimes yes, sometimes no…depends what you are anchoring to. so in this case, based strictly on the dictionary definition of the words in question @LICC seems to have a point. 

i agree with @DaveP043 that the fact that the butt of the club moves during an armlock stroke makes the difference, but then I don’t understand why the rule isn’t written to reflect that idea.