Arm Lock Putting Should Be Illegal

[Another Steve]

1 hour ago, LICC said:

I am against a method of putting that is inconsistent with the spirit of the game of golf. Should I just post things of which you agree? Isn't a discussion forum the perfect place for people to "banter back and forth"?

I am not an traditionalist regarding equipment. I am a traditionalist for the purity of the game. I don't want to see golf go down the road of baseball, which as denigrated the major league game with its analytics strategies and rules changes.

Worse, it could go the way of bowling.... in bowling, between the ball cover technology over the years and allowing two handed rolls (like we used to do when midnight drunk bowling to see how much we can curve the ball).... The two handed roll produces extremely high revs - much more that one handed.... too much spin and power changed the game... a 300 game was relatively rare and they gave you a gold ring for it - from what I understand, it got to be too common and they stopped giving you the ring for your achievement. (someone may come in and correct me here, but that is what I've been told)  IMHO they ruined the game enough that I gave up when I considered taking it up again.  Not all that different from the Technology race in golf, but my example of the two hand roll is similar to the braced putter technique. Close enough to allow it cuz it's still not a be all end all game changer by itself but it's big enough to cause serious ripples.

If part of the expectation in making a golf stroke is to manually control your hand\wrist movement then I think I have to agree that bracing one wrist with the shaft is contrary to the spirit if not the letter of the rule. How about we make it fair and level, you can brace one wrist with the putter shaft, OR you can hold the putter grip completely in your hand(s) and you are permitted to wear an immobilizing wrist brace on one hand/wrist. 

[StrokerAce]

what a bunch of horse sh*t.... 
 

 

[LICC]

2 hours ago, StrokerAce said:

what a bunch of horse sh*t.... 
 

 

@cnosil - you better call Brad Faxon and tell him that he doesn't know anything about putting or the golf swing ...

2 hours ago, StrokerAce said:

what a bunch of horse sh*t.... 
 

 

Brad Faxon says it perfectly. Arm locking is not a pure golf swing, it is anchoring, it is against the spirit of the game. Kudos to Brad for speaking up.

[GolfSpy_BNG]

2 minutes ago, LICC said:

@cnosil - you better call Brad Faxon and tell him that he doesn't know anything about putting or the golf swing ...

Brad Faxon says it perfectly. Arm locking is not a pure golf swing, it is anchoring, it is against the spirit of the game. Kudos to Brad for speaking up.

Thanks for verifying why your here. Confrontation and complaining!

[DaveP043]

24 minutes ago, LICC said:

Arm locking is not a pure golf swing, it is anchoring, it is against the spirit of the game. Kudos to Brad for speaking up.

Since you have set yourself up as the arbiter of logic, and of the spirit of the game, could you define the "spirit of the game" for us?  For me, it means playing honestly and considerately, and playing within the Rules as they are defined.  Fro that standpoint, the armlock is completely within the "spirit of the game".  Obviously we have a different definition, and we'll need to understand YOUR definition to continue this discussion.  

[cnosil]

51 minutes ago, LICC said:

@cnosil - you better call Brad Faxon and tell him that he doesn't know anything about putting or the golf swing ...

Brad Faxon says it perfectly. Arm locking is not a pure golf swing, it is anchoring, it is against the spirit of the game. Kudos to Brad for speaking up.

So,  he says it isn't swinging.  What does swinging really mean?  Does that mean the wrist have to break?  If so,  then we need to stop lots of grips that prevent the wrists from breaking down.  Claw grip is a push, not a stroke.  He mentions Bryson having the putter over 80*,  The putter lie angle isn't over 80* the rules don't say you can hold the club at more than 80*.  he mentions golfs founding fathers not wanting armlock;  they also played stymies and in uncut fields.

Armlock doesn't prevent the club from swinging,  the top of the grip can come off the forearm and the club can rotate.   

Lets talk about the stroke below.  In this grip the player has the grip in his right fingers which are pressed against his arm above his left wrist.  Isn't this anchoring the putter against the left arm?

 

[FrogginBullfish]

Billy's looking like a bit of a hypocrite there, eh? Lmao

So,  he says it isn't swinging.  What does swinging really mean?  Does that mean the wrist have to break?  If so,  then we need to stop lots of grips that prevent the wrists from breaking down.  Claw grip is a push, not a stroke.  He mentions Bryson having the putter over 80*,  The putter lie angle isn't over 80* the rules don't say you can hold the club at more than 80*.  he mentions golfs founding fathers not wanting armlock;  they also played stymies and in uncut fields.
Armlock doesn't prevent the club from swinging,  the top of the grip can come off the forearm and the club can rotate.   
Lets talk about the stroke below.  In this grip the player has the grip in his right fingers which are pressed against his arm above his left wrist.  Isn't this anchoring the putter against the left arm?
 

Sent from my Pixel 2 using MyGolfSpy mobile app

[LICC]

1 hour ago, DaveP043 said:

Since you have set yourself up as the arbiter of logic, and of the spirit of the game, could you define the "spirit of the game" for us?  For me, it means playing honestly and considerately, and playing within the Rules as they are defined.  Fro that standpoint, the armlock is completely within the "spirit of the game".  Obviously we have a different definition, and we'll need to understand YOUR definition to continue this discussion.  

I am referring to the essence of golf- swinging a club to move a ball. I'm not talking about the ethical spirit. 

[ole gray]

On 4/20/2021 at 11:06 AM, blackngold_blood said:

This is getting carried away. There is no proper technique to swing a club or putter. Everybody does things differently in their swing due to any number of physical or mental limitations. 
 

Also as far as armlock being an advantage, it is only an advantage if you can do something NOBODY else can do. Anybody can use the armlock therefore it is not an advantage. I am sure Billy and others have tried armlock and decided on their OWN that the benefits did NOT outweigh the negatives. 
 

Play however you want with whatever equipment you want and abide by the rules for any tourney you enter. It isn’t that hard to understand or figure out. All your doing is coming off as whiny as a multimillionaire complaining that somebody putts better than him. 

[LICC]

32 minutes ago, cnosil said:

So,  he says it isn't swinging.  What does swinging really mean?  Does that mean the wrist have to break?  If so,  then we need to stop lots of grips that prevent the wrists from breaking down.  Claw grip is a push, not a stroke.  He mentions Bryson having the putter over 80*,  The putter lie angle isn't over 80* the rules don't say you can hold the club at more than 80*.  he mentions golfs founding fathers not wanting armlock;  they also played stymies and in uncut fields.

Armlock doesn't prevent the club from swinging,  the top of the grip can come off the forearm and the club can rotate.   

Lets talk about the stroke below.  In this grip the player has the grip in his right fingers which are pressed against his arm above his left wrist.  Isn't this anchoring the putter against the left arm?

 

I don't see any part of his right hand pressed against his left arm in that picture. There clearly is daylight between. You don't have any support for your difference of opinion with Brad Faxon from this picture.

[Chip Strokes]

1 minute ago, LICC said:

I don't see any part of his right hand pressed against his left arm in that picture. There clearly is daylight between. You don't have any support for your difference of opinion with Brad Faxon from this picture.

 

[LICC]

1 hour ago, blackngold_blood said:

Thanks for verifying why your here. Confrontation and complaining!

You can accept denigrating the essence of the game if you want. I don't.

[LICC]

2 minutes ago, Chip Strokes said:

 

Yes, the right hand is not pressed against his left arm, no matter how close you zoom in. Thank you.

[Chip Strokes]

Just now, LICC said:

Yes, the right hand is not pressed against his left arm, no matter how close you zoom in. Thank you.

that’s fingers of his right hand in contact with the left arm. are we looking at the same picture?

[LICC]

1 minute ago, Chip Strokes said:

that’s fingers of his right hand in contact with the left arm. are we looking at the same picture?

You can only see two fingers on his right hand in that picture. His thumb and index finger. Neither are touching his left arm. 

[GolfSpy_BNG]

Sure looks like another finger in contact to me!

[Chip Strokes]

3 minutes ago, LICC said:

You can only see two fingers on his right hand in that picture. His thumb and index finger. Neither are touching his left arm. 

you can see either his middle or ring on the opposite side of the grip pressed against his left arm.

but a lot like everyone else’s perspective, you’re just choosing to ignore it 

[GolfSpy_BNG]

9 minutes ago, LICC said:

You can accept denigrating the essence of the game if you want. I don't.

I’m sorry but just because you are on a fictional high horse doesn’t mean you get to DEFINE what the spirit or essence of the game is.  
 

 

[cnosil]

30 minutes ago, LICC said:

I don't see any part of his right hand pressed against his left arm in that picture. There clearly is daylight between. You don't have any support for your difference of opinion with Brad Faxon from this picture.

How about this one:

[LICC]

32 minutes ago, Chip Strokes said:

you can see either his middle or ring on the opposite side of the grip pressed against his left arm.

but a lot like everyone else’s perspective, you’re just choosing to ignore it 

Or you just see what you want to see. Confirmation bias. 

[Chip Strokes]

Just now, LICC said:

Or you just see what you want to see. Confirmation bias. 

three people see what i see. it’s been zoomed in on and circled for your convenience. you’re the only one who doesn’t see his finger touching his left arm. 

[GolfSpy_BNG]

 

18 minutes ago, cnosil said:

How about this one:

☝☝☝☝☝☝☝☝☝☝

[LICC]

33 minutes ago, Chip Strokes said:

three people see what i see. it’s been zoomed in on and circled for your convenience. you’re the only one who doesn’t see his finger touching his left arm. 

What point are you trying to make? His fingers are wrapped around the club grip. His left hand is low. He is not bracing the club against his forearm. He is not armlocking - the technique that should be disallowed. 

[LICC]

1 hour ago, blackngold_blood said:

I’m sorry but just because you are on a fictional high horse doesn’t mean you get to DEFINE what the spirit or essence of the game is.  
 

 

Faxon doesn’t quite see things this way. He believes it goes against the spirit of the game.

“That is not swinging the golf club,” he said. “I don’t think that our founding forefathers of this game thought that you should be able to do that at all.”

[GolfSpy_BNG]

1 minute ago, LICC said:

Faxon doesn’t quite see things this way. He believes it goes against the spirit of the game.

“That is not swinging the golf club,” he said. “I don’t think that our founding forefathers of this game thought that you should be able to do that at all.”

Oh boy Faxon feels the same way as you so I guess I was wrong.

[GolfSpy_BNG]

10 minutes ago, LICC said:

What point are you trying to make? His fingers are wrapped around the club grip. His left hand is low. He is not bracing the club against his forearm. He is not armlocking - the technique that should be disallowed. 

He IS bracing it against his left wrist, lower forearm and is also making the same shoulder rocking swing as the others. That makes it the same stroke!

[cnosil]

4 minutes ago, LICC said:

What point are you trying to make? His fingers are wrapped around the club grip. His left hand is low. He is not bracing the club against his forearm. He is not armlocking - the technique that should be disallowed. 

He is bracing his right hand against his wrist;  or as we are calling it anchoring.  Its purpose is to stop the putter from rotating;  he is anchoring the putter to his wrist.   I think Spieth's grip is illegal too;  when he forward presses his fingers are braced against is wrist.   And I don't think the golf founding forefathers ever considered left hand low as a possible grip.  

Brad Faxon isn't going to change my opinion.  I am fine with the grip;  the end of club can freely move and isn't pressed against his arm;  it doesn't prevent his wrist from breaking down, and it doesn't prevent his arms from rotating. 

[LICC]

5 minutes ago, blackngold_blood said:

Oh boy Faxon feels the same way as you so I guess I was wrong.

Fred Couples says that armlock putting is anchoring and he cannot believe it is legal.

The 1992 Masters champion was a belly putter user himself before anchoring was outlawed by the R&A and USGA in 2016.

We asked him if there were any rules that he would change and he was firm in his disdain for the armlock method, saying that golf’s governing bodies “really missed the boat”.

“Well, so I was a belly putter and I honestly think they really missed the boat when they went from anchoring to letting people go a little bit like that [armlock] and just letting the putter swing,” Couples told Golf Monthly.

“And if that’s not anchoring, I don’t know what is, how is that not anchoring?”

[LICC]

8 minutes ago, cnosil said:

He is bracing his right hand against his wrist;  or as we are calling it anchoring.  Its purpose is to stop the putter from rotating;  he is anchoring the putter to his wrist.   I think Spieth's grip is illegal too;  when he forward presses his fingers are braced against is wrist.   And I don't think the golf founding forefathers ever considered left hand low as a possible grip.  

Brad Faxon isn't going to change my opinion.  I am fine with the grip;  the end of club can freely move and isn't pressed against his arm;  it doesn't prevent his wrist from breaking down, and it doesn't prevent his arms from rotating. 

Nope:  

 

[cnosil]

3 minutes ago, LICC said:

Fred Couples says that armlock putting is anchoring and he cannot believe it is legal.

The 1992 Masters champion was a belly putter user himself before anchoring was outlawed by the R&A and USGA in 2016.

We asked him if there were any rules that he would change and he was firm in his disdain for the armlock method, saying that golf’s governing bodies “really missed the boat”.

“Well, so I was a belly putter and I honestly think they really missed the boat when they went from anchoring to letting people go a little bit like that [armlock] and just letting the putter swing,” Couples told Golf Monthly.

“And if that’s not anchoring, I don’t know what is, how is that not anchoring?”

It is not anchoring because the rules say it is not anchoring.  Providing player names that don't like it won't change peoples minds.  We could get into politics and quote what they think is right and wrong but that doesn't mean things change.