Arm Lock Putting Should Be Illegal

[GolfSpy_BNG]

3 minutes ago, LICC said:

Fred Couples says that armlock putting is anchoring and he cannot believe it is legal.

The 1992 Masters champion was a belly putter user himself before anchoring was outlawed by the R&A and USGA in 2016.

We asked him if there were any rules that he would change and he was firm in his disdain for the armlock method, saying that golf’s governing bodies “really missed the boat”.

“Well, so I was a belly putter and I honestly think they really missed the boat when they went from anchoring to letting people go a little bit like that [armlock] and just letting the putter swing,” Couples told Golf Monthly.

“And if that’s not anchoring, I don’t know what is, how is that not anchoring?”

Sounds like Boom Boom is upset they took away his belly putter. Maybe he should read the rule. It isn’t anchoring by the rule because there is no fixed point by which the hand rotates.  The end of the grip moves with the swing. 

[cnosil]

1 minute ago, LICC said:

Nope:  

 

Nope what?

 

[LICC]

21 minutes ago, blackngold_blood said:

Sounds like Boom Boom is upset they took away his belly putter. Maybe he should read the rule. It isn’t anchoring by the rule because there is no fixed point by which the hand rotates.  The end of the grip moves with the swing. 

Adam Scott: “I tried the arm-lock method and, to be honest, it was more anchored than anything I was ever doing.”

[GolfSpy_BNG]

1 minute ago, LICC said:

Adam Scott: “I tried the arm-lock method and, to be honest, it was more anchored than anything I was ever doing.”

And another anchor putter guy upset. Good talk!

[Chip Strokes]

4 minutes ago, LICC said:

Adam Scott: “I tried the arm-lock method and, to be honest, it was more anchored than anything I was ever doing.”

Rory McIlroy on Bryson: “I think it's brilliant, but I think he's taken advantage of where the game is at the minute. Look, again, whether that's good or bad, but it's just the way it is. With the way he approaches it, with the arm-lock putting, with everything, it's just where the game's at right now.I'm not saying that's right or wrong. He's just taking advantage of what we have right now.“

we can play this sound bite game all day long. a few guys not liking arm lock doesn’t a rule breach make. 

[toehold57]

Some people are just going to continue to argue ‘cause they find worth in arguing.

Personally I’ve blocked such people.  I don’t see a need to be brought down to their level.

[FrogginBullfish]

Sent from my Pixel 2 using MyGolfSpy mobile app

[fozcycle]

After watching Bryson putt, I decided to hold the putter using my left arm stiff so that it is on the same plane as the putter shaft. This raises my left shoulder but seems to lock into position. My putter length is 33” but if it were 39” my stroke would be the same. I don’t see the big deal in using an “armlock” putter locking your elbow to create a straight line with your arm.


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[null]

1 hour ago, fozcycle said:

After watching Bryson putt, I decided to hold the putter using my left arm stiff so that it is on the same plane as the putter shaft. This raises my left shoulder but seems to lock into position. My putter length is 33” but if it were 39” my stroke would be the same. I don’t see the big deal in using an “armlock” putter locking your elbow to create a straight line with your arm.


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The arm lock isn’t necessarily having your arm stiff. It’s having your putter longer so the shaft/grip goes up you arm and presses into your forearm as an anchor point 

[LICC]

10 hours ago, Chip Strokes said:

Rory McIlroy on Bryson: “I think it's brilliant, but I think he's taken advantage of where the game is at the minute. Look, again, whether that's good or bad, but it's just the way it is. With the way he approaches it, with the arm-lock putting, with everything, it's just where the game's at right now.I'm not saying that's right or wrong. He's just taking advantage of what we have right now.“

we can play this sound bite game all day long. a few guys not liking arm lock doesn’t a rule breach make. 

That quote does not support your position. Rory is using the words “taken advantage” pejoratively. 

[LICC]

10 hours ago, cnosil said:

Nope what?

 

He is just using a left hand low grip, with his hands slightly more separated. Because his left hand is low his right hand will necessarily be closer to his left wrist. This is nothing like locking a longer shafted putter against your left forearm. 

[Chip Strokes]

10 minutes ago, LICC said:

That quote does not support your position. Rory is using the words “taken advantage” pejoratively. 

and I'm sure he was using “brilliant” sarcastically. 

i’d ask rory, but since you speak for him i guess i don’t have to. 

i’m way past done here, and i’m actually pretty mad at myself for hanging around this long. 

[GolfSpy_SHARK]

I am 3 putting regardless 

If it was an advantage everyone would be doing it case closed.

[cnosil]

He is just using a left hand low grip, with his hands slightly more separated. Because his left hand is low his right hand will necessarily be closer to his left wrist. This is nothing like locking a longer shafted putter against your left forearm. 

Same in my eyes. The shaft is locked into an area above his hands. The lead wrist is bowed locking the right hand and shaft into and above above the wrist.

But if that grip is okay, With the longer shaft if just extends beyond his hands and runs along his arm. There is nothing locking the shaft to his arm. If the player with an armlock putter were to flex, bow, ulnar deviate, etc the wrists and hands the putter shaft would come off the arm.

With anchored putting the end of the shaft was locked in place and would prevent the butt end from moving left, right, up, or down. Essentially the end of the shaft became a fixed point.

[DaveP043]

14 hours ago, LICC said:

Brad Faxon says it perfectly. Arm locking is not a pure golf swing, it is anchoring, it is against the spirit of the game. Kudos to Brad for speaking up.

 

13 hours ago, LICC said:

I am referring to the essence of golf- swinging a club to move a ball. I'm not talking about the ethical spirit. 

 

13 hours ago, LICC said:

You can accept denigrating the essence of the game if you want. I don't.

Again, define whatever you think you're talking about here, in your own words.  And define a reason that YOUR version of it is more valid than MY version, the version used by the Ruling Bodies, or anyone else's version.  That really is what it comes down to, you're saying "I understand the essence of golf better than you do".  And let's leave Faxon and Couples and the rest out of it, there are obviously equally important players whose opinion is the opposite.

[LICC]

1 hour ago, Lacassem said:

I am 3 putting regardless 

If it was an advantage everyone would be doing it case closed.

That’s like saying there is one technique that works for everyone. That’s not golf. It works for some and not for others. Like different grips, swing planes, etc. That doesn’t make arm locking any les inappropriate.

[StrokerAce]

1 hour ago, Lacassem said:

I am 3 putting regardless 

If it was an advantage everyone would be doing it case closed.

Bingo!

Look - think about WHY someone would try to do something illegal. TO give themselves an advantage over the field, right? 
If not then why even bother.

So, in that case, take a broad look at the "armlock" guys versus traditional and you'll see there isn't much of an advantage, if any, one way or another.

It's a different style...that's it. 
Remember when Chris DeMarco debuted "the claw" and had a good day putting and everyone got all bothered by it? 
It's just a different way.

Golf needs to get out of their own way sometimes and just let people enjoy the game.

[GolfSpy_SHARK]

3 minutes ago, LICC said:

That’s like saying there is one technique that works for everyone. That’s not golf. It works for some and not for others. Like different grips, swing planes, etc. That doesn’t make arm locking any les inappropriate.

I’m not going down this road pal. I could debate circles around you but I have seen the 1 way and been apart of it with you. Enjoy the site

[excourse]

Debate is one thing. Feeding a troll is another, brother.

Wishon 730CL, Driver thru SW
Ping C67 putter.

[GolfSpy BOS]

Not that anyone really needs any new opinions here..

Since the end of the shaft is free, I don't agree that it is anchoring.  Do I think those that use it feel it gives them an advantage?  Of course, or they wouldn't do it.  

But that's the same reason I look for a pistol grip with a big axe handle at the top.  For me, I fell like it "locks in" my hands and wrist.  It gives me great control over the face of the putter.

Maybe we need to ban all non-round standard size grips while we're at it?  

[Nolan220]

Me reading through this thread 

[LICC]

2 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

 

 

Again, define whatever you think you're talking about here, in your own words.  And define a reason that YOUR version of it is more valid than MY version, the version used by the Ruling Bodies, or anyone else's version.  That really is what it comes down to, you're saying "I understand the essence of golf better than you do".  And let's leave Faxon and Couples and the rest out of it, there are obviously equally important players whose opinion is the opposite.

Firmly securing a part of the golf club outside of your grip against any part of your body is against the essence of a golf swing, which is holding a club with your hands and moving it to strike (not push) the ball. You can be a USGA apologist and consider them infallible, but that has not been their history. 

[LICC]

1 hour ago, B.Boston said:

Not that anyone really needs any new opinions here..

Since the end of the shaft is free, I don't agree that it is anchoring.  Do I think those that use it feel it gives them an advantage?  Of course, or they wouldn't do it.  

But that's the same reason I look for a pistol grip with a big axe handle at the top.  For me, I fell like it "locks in" my hands and wrist.  It gives me great control over the face of the putter.

Maybe we need to ban all non-round standard size grips while we're at it?  

Why does it matter which part of the club is pressed to the body? Would you be ok pressing the head of the club against your inner foot and kicking the ball?

[DaveP043]

6 minutes ago, LICC said:

Firmly securing a part of the golf club outside of your grip against any part of your body is against the essence of a golf swing, which is holding a club with your hands and moving it to strike (not push) the ball. You can be a USGA apologist and consider them infallible, but that has not been their history. 

Please don't put words into my mouth, I've never claimed that the USGA (or the R&A for that matter) is infallible.  But THEIR version of the "essence of the golf swing" is that the  "player freely swing the entire club."  You want to limit it to the hands, they're allowing a broader version.  To that end, they've decided that the elbow must not be limited, but that the wrist may.  Its not infallibility, its drawing a line, rather arbitrarily.  I trust that they've weighed all of the alternative ways to limit "anchoring", something that Horschel and Faxon and Couples haven't done, and they've decided that this is the best compromise. 

This is NOT a black or white issue, its a shades of gray issue, and they've chosen to write the rule in a way that allows players to retain a significant degree of freedom in choosing how they putt.  As others have said, if they really want to return to the origins of the game, they'd have to outlaw the various claw and pencil grips golfers have devised.  That would go beyond where YOU would draw the line, you're obviously picking a different shade of gray, but you're not advocating for a black and white solution either.

 

[GolfSpy BOS]

13 minutes ago, LICC said:

Why does it matter which part of the club is pressed to the body? Would you be ok pressing the head of the club against your inner foot and kicking the ball?

I suppose I would be ok with that provided the grip of the club wasn’t anchored up ones buttock. 

[LICC]

4 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

Please don't put words into my mouth, I've never claimed that the USGA (or the R&A for that matter) is infallible.  But THEIR version of the "essence of the golf swing" is that the  "player freely swing the entire club."  You want to limit it to the hands, they're allowing a broader version.  To that end, they've decided that the elbow must not be limited, but that the wrist may.  Its not infallibility, its drawing a line, rather arbitrarily.  I trust that they've weighed all of the alternative ways to limit "anchoring", something that Horschel and Faxon and Couples haven't done, and they've decided that this is the best compromise. 

This is NOT a black or white issue, its a shades of gray issue, and they've chosen to write the rule in a way that allows players to retain a significant degree of freedom in choosing how they putt.  As others have said, if they really want to return to the origins of the game, they'd have to outlaw the various claw and pencil grips golfers have devised.  That would go beyond where YOU would draw the line, you're obviously picking a different shade of gray, but you're not advocating for a black and white solution either.

 

Why isn’t belly putting “freely swinging the club”? The entire club is still swinging. Why is anchoring that part of the club to that part of your body not ok, but anchoring a different part of the club to a different part of your body is ok?

[bens197]

1 hour ago, Nolan220 said:

Me reading through this thread 

Dr. Brule is all of us right now

 

[DaveP043]

3 minutes ago, LICC said:

Why isn’t belly putting “freely swinging the club”? The entire club is still swinging. Why is anchoring that part of the club to that part of your body not ok, but anchoring a different part of the club to a different part of your body is ok?

Perhaps you didn't read all of that, I know it was a lot of words.  They've chosen to draw a line between anchoring a part of the club to a part of the body that doesn't (intentionally) move (torso) and holding a part of the club against a part of the body that DOES generally move (forearm).  They certainly could have drawn that line somewhere else, and I feel certain that they considered the other available options.  And I'd ask you, does your "essence of the swing" not require the player to have both hands on the club, trail hand low, palms generally facing one another?  Why would YOU allow pencil grips, claw grips, lead-hand low grips.  Why have YOU drawn your own particular line, and why is it the "right" line to draw?

[cnosil]

Why isn’t belly putting “freely swinging the club”? The entire club is still swinging. Why is anchoring that part of the club to that part of your body not ok, but anchoring a different part of the club to a different part of your body is ok?

Belly putting utilizes the end of the grip as a fixed point that the club moves around. It is anchored to that point. I’m arm lock the grip running up the arm does not create a fixed point.

Anchoring in the golf definition is basically a single fixed point. Think of a boat with an anchor.

What single fixed point does the club touch and move around in armlock?

[LICC]

3 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

Perhaps you didn't read all of that, I know it was a lot of words.  They've chosen to draw a line between anchoring a part of the club to a part of the body that doesn't (intentionally) move (torso) and holding a part of the club against a part of the body that DOES generally move (forearm).  They certainly could have drawn that line somewhere else, and I feel certain that they considered the other available options.  And I'd ask you, does your "essence of the swing" not require the player to have both hands on the club, trail hand low, palms generally facing one another?  Why would YOU allow pencil grips, claw grips, lead-hand low grips.  Why have YOU drawn your own particular line, and why is it the "right" line to draw?

But tell me WHY that line was drawn where it was. Some people putt using more body rotation and keeping their arms still. That's a choice.

Different hand grips don't change the essence of swinging a club and don't entail anchoring a part of the club to a different part of your body.

Please explain why that difference makes a difference. Please don't just give a conclusory statement like you usually do. Or say that it's because that's what the ruling bodies decided. Use as many words as you like.