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Arm Lock Putting Should Be Illegal


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On 6/4/2021 at 8:07 AM, LICC said:

I thought you meant the feel of the swing. He then went on to specifics as to why arm locking is inappropriate.

This has nothing to do with the PGA. The USGA sets the rules (with the R&A). The USGA has screwed up and changed rules all the time. The question isn't whether arm locking is illegal, it is whether arm locking should be illegal. For the reasons that Xander and others have noted, it should be illegal.

So let me see if I got this right...you think arm locking should be illegal, because Xander (who is now using an arm lock putter) and other Tour Pros have said it should be illegal?  If my statement in that first sentence is correct and that's your thinking then you should know that Xander's opinion doesn't mean a hill of beans, especially if he is going to use the method that he thinks should be banned.  That's like an alcoholic slurring his words while saying that alcohol should be prohibited. 

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5 minutes ago, M. Parsons said:

So let me see if I got this right...you think arm locking should be illegal, because Xander (who is now using an arm lock putter) and other Tour Pros have said it should be illegal?  If my statement in that first sentence is correct and that's your thinking then you should know that Xander's opinion doesn't mean a hill of beans, especially if he is going to use the method that he thinks should be banned.  That's like an alcoholic slurring his words while saying that alcohol should be prohibited. 

I think arm locking should be illegal not because of the Tour pros that have said it should be illegal, but because I agree with the reasons they give as to why it should be illegal. 

Xander deciding to use it while at the same time advocating for a rule change to ban it does not detract from his opinion that it should be banned.

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1 hour ago, LICC said:

I think arm locking should be illegal not because of the Tour pros that have said it should be illegal, but because I agree with the reasons they give as to why it should be illegal. 

Xander deciding to use it while at the same time advocating for a rule change to ban it does not detract from his opinion that it should be banned.

Sounds a lot like hypocrisy to me

Edited by M. Parsons
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I haven’t read all of this thread, but if we had the data on strokes gained for golfers who do/do not use armlock, we could run some analyses and come to see if any statistically significant differences exist.

Or take a golfer who was not using arm lock and then switched to it for a test to see if significant improvements occur.

Seems like golfers are always searching, even at the tour-levels.  Something might be gold for a month then fall off next month.

I teach a grad class in sport ethics, so I get the arguments about “spirit of the rule” vs “the rule” itself.  A golfer still has to read the speed and break properly and hope it doesn’t hit something that knocks it offline along the way.  Lots of variables in golf.

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11 minutes ago, GolfSpy_CS said:

I haven’t read all of this thread, but if we had the data on strokes gained for golfers who do/do not use armlock, we could run some analyses and come to see if any statistically significant differences exist.

I teach a grad class in sport ethics, so I get the arguments about “spirit of the rule” vs “the rule” itself.  A golfer still has to read the speed and break properly and hope it doesn’t hit something that knocks it offline along the way.  Lots of variables in golf.

 

... I think that is an excellent idea but probably not possible. Since we do everything with a golf club having our trailing hand low, I think that will always be the best way to putt. But that assumes we don't have any putting problems. As an accurate QB, spot up jump shooter and high average hitter in my youth, I believe I was blessed with above average hand eye coordination. Putting has always been the easiest part of the game for me, especially speed control so I have never even considered a different method. I have of course tinkered around with different techniques as a point of knowledge for teaching and while the anchored long putter was a savior for some that had the yips, I was absolutely dreadful using that method. Very poor distance and direction control. But again I have no problems with the traditional putting grip. Someone like Adam Scott that had severe yips found the long anchored putter a life saver. So data from the two of us would be completely opposite. There is something to be said about putting by feel and putting technically too. I see people step off putts and wonder how that helps them when no 2 putts are the same from 15' as greens are different speeds, up/down slopes, grain to consider and even wind all factor into a putt. But some putt very well that way. 

... Like cliches there is a reason tried and true methods work best for the majority that play this great game. But there are always exceptions and given that putting is by far the most demanding mental part of the game, the brain can certainly short circuit the body and cause a myriad of problems. So a viritual smorgasbord of options are then available from different grips, to different putter lengths and even different putter weighting. Then you have center shafted, heel shafted, toe hang, face balanced, composite putter shafts and and almost endless alignment aides from dots, to lines, to circles to no alignment and a combination of all of the above. There used to be a consensus among teachers that you put the same way you take a full swing. If you are a short, quick, hard hitter then a short quick stroke will work best with your instincts and the same for a long flowing swing that will work best with a long flowing putting stroke. 

... I have seen players with what seems like zero control of their trailing hand when putting and several I could not even watch their yips were so bad and had little chance from even 12 inches. I would think anchoring in any way would be a huge boon for them. It is 116* today and I clearly have too much time on my hands. 🤣

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I think strokes gained is for sure the best way, but I also think it would be difficult to interpret the data. First, I suspect that most of us learn to play with a traditional putter and then only try an alternative style because of some kind of deficiency (especially considering the stigma attached to armlocks and there comparative unavailability and non-exposure).  I wonder whether folks who kept with the traditional method are not just keeping with their current style because they are still putting “good”.
 

Second, I think there is difficulty in comparing before and after stats of one player as well because there may be different reasons for switching (e.g. physical limitations) or self-selecting players who have higher expectations for how well they putt that make comparing their data compared to the average player difficult.

Last, because there are so few pros doing it, it will be difficult to extrapolate. Are there even 20 players using them?

That’s all to say that I would love for someone to do the work. It would be interesting to see if some of the bigger data captures like Arcos could do it for the general population which could perhaps drown out some of the noise, and I’m skeptical of anyone who claims they know what the result would be before the study. 
 

 

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16 hours ago, AndySP said:

I think strokes gained is for sure the best way, but I also think it would be difficult to interpret the data. First, I suspect that most of us learn to play with a traditional putter and then only try an alternative style because of some kind of deficiency (especially considering the stigma attached to armlocks and there comparative unavailability and non-exposure).  I wonder whether folks who kept with the traditional method are not just keeping with their current style because they are still putting “good”.
 

Second, I think there is difficulty in comparing before and after stats of one player as well because there may be different reasons for switching (e.g. physical limitations) or self-selecting players who have higher expectations for how well they putt that make comparing their data compared to the average player difficult.

Last, because there are so few pros doing it, it will be difficult to extrapolate. Are there even 20 players using them?

That’s all to say that I would love for someone to do the work. It would be interesting to see if some of the bigger data captures like Arcos could do it for the general population which could perhaps drown out some of the noise, and I’m skeptical of anyone who claims they know what the result would be before the study. 
 

 

Yeah, thus why I thought of a paired samples test with the same golfers using both traditional and armlock.  That way you could compare their own putting to itself.  I would agree there might not even be 20 players using it right now.  Just trying to spitball a way to get some objective rather than speculative data on the topic.

 

16 hours ago, chisag said:

 

... I think that is an excellent idea but probably not possible. Since we do everything with a golf club having our trailing hand low, I think that will always be the best way to putt. But that assumes we don't have any putting problems. As an accurate QB, spot up jump shooter and high average hitter in my youth, I believe I was blessed with above average hand eye coordination. Putting has always been the easiest part of the game for me, especially speed control so I have never even considered a different method. I have of course tinkered around with different techniques as a point of knowledge for teaching and while the anchored long putter was a savior for some that had the yips, I was absolutely dreadful using that method. Very poor distance and direction control. But again I have no problems with the traditional putting grip. Someone like Adam Scott that had severe yips found the long anchored putter a life saver. So data from the two of us would be completely opposite. There is something to be said about putting by feel and putting technically too. I see people step off putts and wonder how that helps them when no 2 putts are the same from 15' as greens are different speeds, up/down slopes, grain to consider and even wind all factor into a putt. But some putt very well that way. 

... Like cliches there is a reason tried and true methods work best for the majority that play this great game. But there are always exceptions and given that putting is by far the most demanding mental part of the game, the brain can certainly short circuit the body and cause a myriad of problems. So a viritual smorgasbord of options are then available from different grips, to different putter lengths and even different putter weighting. Then you have center shafted, heel shafted, toe hang, face balanced, composite putter shafts and and almost endless alignment aides from dots, to lines, to circles to no alignment and a combination of all of the above. There used to be a consensus among teachers that you put the same way you take a full swing. If you are a short, quick, hard hitter then a short quick stroke will work best with your instincts and the same for a long flowing swing that will work best with a long flowing putting stroke. 

... I have seen players with what seems like zero control of their trailing hand when putting and several I could not even watch their yips were so bad and had little chance from even 12 inches. I would think anchoring in any way would be a huge boon for them. It is 116* today and I clearly have too much time on my hands. 🤣

I’m envious of your natural putting.  I was a very accurate free throw and three point shooter in basketball, yet for some reason distance control in putting is my Achilles heel.  Perhaps I just don’t practice enough (most likely) or I make it too technical/think about it too much.

But as you and I both mentioned, there are so many variables in putting.  Hard to control for them all. I would think having the same golfers try both methods would be the best approach.

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Saw this concerning Xander’s armlock trial and it’s impact on his strokes gained putting:

2310EB95-3BD3-4E5F-AAEB-E99141F9B698.jpeg

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I rolled a ODYSSEY ARM-LOCK 2-BALL TEN yesterday at Dick's. Sweet feeling putter and I love the whole package including the awesome looking blue grip!  Going back today to pick one up. Looking forward to putting this puppy in my stall/rotation for years to come.  😍

 

OdysseyTENArmlockFeat4.jpg

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On 6/22/2021 at 6:06 AM, ole gray said:

I rolled a ODYSSEY ARM-LOCK 2-BALL TEN yesterday at Dick's. Sweet feeling putter and I love the whole package including the awesome looking blue grip!  Going back today to pick one up. Looking forward to putting this puppy in my stall/rotation for years to come.  😍

 

OdysseyTENArmlockFeat4.jpg

I picked this up today at Dicks.  It's my last putter purchase of the year..... 😉  Seriously this is it.....   No more ......  I promise! 

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11 hours ago, ole gray said:

I picked this up today at Dicks.  It's my last putter purchase of the year..... 😉  Seriously this is it.....   No more ......  I promise! 

Narrator: "It is at this point @ole gray realizes that the year is only halfway over... Let's observe..."

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Not that it means a lot in the big scheme of things, but a good friend has just terminated his two-year experiment with armlock putting.  This is a good player, close to 60 years old and playing off scratch.  Immediately after returning to a traditional putter, he placed in the top 20 at the VSGA Senior Stroke Play Championship, so apparently the switch is a positive one for him.

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Referenced in a Golf Magazine piece today:

https://golf.com/instruction/putting/top-100-teacher-arm-lock-putting-is-legal-and-works-like-crazy-heres-how-you-can-use-it/

"It’s an easy—and possibly superior—way to putt, and golf’s governing bodies have given it their full blessing. Here’s the basic concept: Connect the shaft of your putter to your lead arm at address (photo, above) and keep it there during your stroke. By doing this you eliminate any deviations in shaft angle from setup to impact, where most putting errors occur. Honestly, it makes controlling the putterface darn near idiot-proof."

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Here's how I see the whole anchoring debate: There is a group of people traveling around playing for more than a million dollars a week for a win, let alone the rest of the purse money. If it truly was an advantage, the majority of them would be doing it. Even if it saved a shot a tournament, they would do it. That's why everyone buys the green reading book every week...

Having said that, I don't understand how anchoring the putter to your forearm is different than your stomach or sternum. Golf is silly.

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On 6/4/2021 at 6:36 AM, B.Boston said:

But I still don't believe it's an advantage ...

If it's not an advantage then why do it? 

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1 hour ago, d.lama said:

If it's not an advantage then why do it? 

 

... Think of it this way. If you have elbow tendonitis a brace will help you tremendously. If you don't have tendonitis the brace would probably be a hindrance. If you have the yips or a stroke flaw where your wrists break down, an arm lock will certainly help alleviate your problem. But if you don't, there is no advantage and it would probably be a hindrance to your putting. 

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21 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... Think of it this way. If you have elbow tendonitis a brace will help you tremendously. If you don't have tendonitis the brace would probably be a hindrance. If you have the yips or a stroke flaw where your wrists break down, an arm lock will certainly help elevate your problem. But if you don't, there is no advantage and it would probably be a hindrance to your putting. 

Couldn’t have said it better.  Is it an advantage for some guys sure. Just like a 7-wood, or hybrid is better than a 3 or 4 iron for some guys. 
 

there’s still plenty of room for error with the stroke.  If I had to put with armlock my distance control would suffer as I would loose a lot of feel in my hands. 

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I have an armlock and plan on using it the rest of the year and henceforth.  I don't putt any better with it however it feels comfortable so I do have more confidence. Confidence will hopefully calm my issue with the weakest part of my game and at the least, take some of the dread out of putting. 

Nobody else uses an armlock at my club so it must not be seen as an advantage. 

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  • 1 month later...

If you've ever had the yips and overcame it through shear perseverance using classic grips and swings you understand arm locking is cheating. It's a shortcut to getting results. A big part of playing the game of golf is overcoming anxiety and nerves in order to hit the shots you want and play well. Ask Steve Sticker if arm locking is ethical. He was in golf purgatory and fought his way out but it took years. DeChambeau and Adam Scott should not have major titles. 

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21 minutes ago, Tom chaffee said:

If you've ever had the yips and overcame it through shear perseverance using classic grips and swings you understand arm locking is cheating. It's a shortcut to getting results. A big part of playing the game of golf is overcoming anxiety and nerves in order to hit the shots you want and play well. Ask Steve Sticker if arm locking is ethical. He was in golf purgatory and fought his way out but it took years. DeChambeau and Adam Scott should not have major titles. 

I really don't want to fire up this debate again but...

There have been more and more players trying it and many not sticking with it because they are not finding the advantage. Xander won golf after going back to normal, Phil having it last all of 1 round. 

It's been said here and I'll say it again. If it truly was that big of an advantage everyone would do it. Armlock still is putting and clearly does not make putting automatic, it is still a skill and this is just another form of putting.

 

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