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Arm Lock Putting Should Be Illegal


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8 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

I really don't want to fire up this debate again but...

There have been more and more players trying it and many not sticking with it because they are not finding the advantage. Xander won golf after going back to normal, Phil having it last all of 1 round. 

It's been said here and I'll say it again. If it truly was that big of an advantage everyone would do it. Armlock still is putting and clearly does not make putting automatic, it is still a skill and this is just another form of putting.

 

 

Agree 110% !   I've used my armlock for over three months now and I had to get away from the lock position.  I do better with it using a pendulum type swing with the grip away from my arm. Side saddle works much better than arm locking it.  

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On 8/8/2021 at 9:12 AM, GolfSpy_APH said:

I really don't want to fire up this debate again but...

There have been more and more players trying it and many not sticking with it because they are not finding the advantage. Xander won golf after going back to normal, Phil having it last all of 1 round. 

It's been said here and I'll say it again. If it truly was that big of an advantage everyone would do it. Armlock still is putting and clearly does not make putting automatic, it is still a skill and this is just another form of putting.

 

You really can't fire up a debate when you don't allow the person with the different opinion to comment ...

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2. Putter has to be the shortest club in your bag

Perez didn’t like belly putting, and doesn’t like arm-locking. He says it’s against the spirit of the game, which is why Perez says if he was King of Golf, he’d decree that your putter has to be the shortest in your bag

“I’ve never liked anchoring, and to me the arm lock is the most anchoring of them all,” he says. “I don’t care about how far it goes, I don’t care about the driver head. People want to see it go far…but you still have to make putts. The hardest thing is still making that 6-, 7-footer with a slide on it.”

https://golf.com/instruction/rules/2-rules-pga-tour-winner-would-change/

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On 8/8/2021 at 6:12 AM, GolfSpy_APH said:

It's been said here and I'll say it again. If it truly was that big of an advantage everyone would do it. Armlock still is putting and clearly does not make putting automatic, it is still a skill and this is just another form of putting.

 

... I have certainly let my opinion be known and think it gives an advantage to someone with the yips, although you can still yip a little with the arm lock as Zac showed in your video. 😳  Putting is a strength of my game and an arm lock or belly putter is much more difficult for me to use so I understand your point. Of course this is only one aspect of putting and reading is equally important and arm lock/belly has nothing to do with reading greens. Lastly it is obviously a moot point until it is taken under consideration to be deemed illegal but the powers that be seem to be totally against any bifurcation of rules. I'd kinda like to see it outlawed at the tournament to Pro level but think recreational golfers, especially mid to higher index players should do whatever it takes to make the game enjoyable. Of course the obvious is if someone going to an arm lock/belly putter there is a 99% chance they are not very good putters to begin with so again not so much an advantage but more of a bandaid for the yips. 

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Oddly enough, in 2013 Pat Perez was against the anchored putting ban, saying:

“Bottom line, there’s not enough evidence to prove that anchoring is an advantage,” Perez said. “OK, so a couple of guys have won majors with them. Those guys also played fantastic.”

https://www.dispatch.com/article/20130529/SPORTS/305299737

So which Perez opinion should we use?

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1 hour ago, DaveP043 said:

Oddly enough, in 2013 Pat Perez was against the anchored putting ban, saying:

“Bottom line, there’s not enough evidence to prove that anchoring is an advantage,” Perez said. “OK, so a couple of guys have won majors with them. Those guys also played fantastic.”

https://www.dispatch.com/article/20130529/SPORTS/305299737

So which Perez opinion should we use?

There are plenty of people who have amended their views on any number of things over an 8 year period.  

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is anyone in here that is against armlock putting also in favor of the MLB outlawing submarine pictching motions or the NBA making underhand free throws illegal?

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49 minutes ago, Chip Strokes said:

is anyone in here that is against armlock putting also in favor of the MLB outlawing submarine pictching motions or the NBA making underhand free throws illegal?

MLB Baseball;  you bring up MLB baseball;  an organization that has different a different set of rules based on which league you are in.   Pitchers need to take their swings at the plate;  ban the DH!!!!

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1 hour ago, cnosil said:

MLB Baseball;  you bring up MLB baseball;  an organization that has different a different set of rules based on which league you are in.   Pitchers need to take their swings at the plate;  ban the DH!!!!

I agree with everything you said except for the redundancy in your statement by essentially saying Major League Baseball Baseball. Everyone is fighting for rules in this thread and I plan to die on this hill. Yes though ban the DH. 

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3 hours ago, bens197 said:

There are plenty of people who have amended their views on any number of things over an 8 year period.  

True, but the same objection stands, there's no statistical evidence that armlock putting is an advantage. 

The simple fact is that the Ruling Bodies chose to draw a line regarding anchoring, and armlock falls on the legal side of that line.  Any different line could be chosen, and it would be just as arbitrary.  Do the palms have to face each other, must the hands touch, may the end of the putter touch the lead arm above a specific line on the wrist?  The rule draws an arbitrary but reasonable line, any new rule would be just as arbitrary.

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3 hours ago, cnosil said:

MLB Baseball;  you bring up MLB baseball;  an organization that has different a different set of rules based on which league you are in.   Pitchers need to take their swings at the plate;  ban the DH!!!!

 

... There was an episode of Happy Days where the Fonz had to drive an Ice Cream truck and complained that after souping up the engine he could get it up to 80 mph but never did it because every time he started to get it going, he had to slow down for some little kid waiving a dime. Thats how I feel about pitchers hitting. The offense just gets going with 2 outs and runners on 2nd and third and the pitcher has to bat AFTER walking the bases loaded so they can get to the pitcher? Then you also have the scenario where the pitcher is having an outstanding game coming to the 8th inning with only 87 pitches thrown but down 2 to 0 with runners in scoring position and 2 outs so you have to replace him with a pinch hitter and bring in a reliever?!?! 

... Clearly we are either National League or American League fans and I love a DH but doubt anyone likes the rules of the other league. 🤪

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13 hours ago, Chip Strokes said:

is anyone in here that is against armlock putting also in favor of the MLB outlawing submarine pictching motions or the NBA making underhand free throws illegal?

That is a very simple distinction. None of what you described uses a change in equipment in order to execute. Also, MLB does have restrictions on certain motions- a pitcher can’t throw to first after making a motion to the plate- that is a balk. 

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26 minutes ago, LICC said:

That is a very simple distinction. None of what you described uses a change in equipment in order to execute

I can’t believe I’m back in this thread but your answer to his question isn’t valid. By your response everyone should play standard length, lie, grip, etc on every club! They don’t, everyone “changes equipment” to play their best. It is why you get fitted!

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35 minutes ago, blackngold_blood said:

I can’t believe I’m back in this thread but your answer to his question isn’t valid. By your response everyone should play standard length, lie, grip, etc on every club! They don’t, everyone “changes equipment” to play their best. It is why you get fitted!

All sports have limits on equipment, and the equipment variance has to stay within the limits. 

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17 minutes ago, LICC said:

All sports have limits on equipment, and the equipment variance has to stay within the limits. 

That’s not the point I was making. You can’t dismiss his statements using the “change in equipment” argument and then dismiss that same argument just to support what you want to say.  
 

The problem with this whole thread and a few others like it are you keep quoting other peoples opinions like they are facts that prove you right while at the same time dismissing everyone’s opinion that disagrees with you as wrong.  

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11 minutes ago, blackngold_blood said:

That’s not the point I was making. You can’t dismiss his statements using the “change in equipment” argument and then dismiss that same argument just to support what you want to say.  
 

The problem with this whole thread and a few others like it are you keep quoting other peoples opinions like they are facts that prove you right while at the same time dismissing everyone’s opinion that disagrees with you as wrong.  

IMO, using different arm angles to throw a baseball (which is the same baseball every time) is not comparable to using an increased length putter in order to lock it to your arm when you make the stroke. 

I quote other people's opinions to show other people's opinions.

I really can't comment any more on this because the moderators have warned they will suspend or ban me for posting different opinions that you and others don't like.

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7 minutes ago, LICC said:

IMO, using different arm angles to throw a baseball (which is the same baseball every time) is not comparable to using an increased length putter in order to lock it to your arm when you make the stroke. 

I quote other people's opinions to show other people's opinions.

I really can't comment any more on this because the moderators have warned they will suspend or ban me for posting different opinions that you and others don't like.

Ok last thing then I’m done forever.   The same ball argument for baseball applies only to the ball in golf nothing more. Bats to hit the ball or arms to throw it equate more to the club than anything and bat more so than arm. Not all bats are the same weight or length or even material just like not all clubs are.  

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2 hours ago, LICC said:

That is a very simple distinction. None of what you described uses a change in equipment in order to execute. Also, MLB does have restrictions on certain motions- a pitcher can’t throw to first after making a motion to the plate- that is a balk. 

i'm aware of what a balk is.  my two seasons in the mets organization taught me a thing or two.  

and submarine and underhand free throws are very valid corollaries.  they're deviations on a "standard" motion that give SOME players an advantage over others.  namely, the players who can't get the job done doing things the conventional way.  

if your issue is the changing of the equipment, then are you ok with the infinite number of baseball bat varieties? flared knob, no knob, choking up, pinky off, axe handle....how about different weights, lengths, weigh to length ratios, barrel to hand ratios, materials?

how about the guys who still play in metal spikes vs. the ones who choose to play in turf shoes?

what about different face masks in football? visors? flak jackets? 

or nba players who wear compression sleeves, wrist bands, or finger sleeves.

if i'm a swimmer and want to wear a speedo, but the guy in the next lane has on the suit that comes to his knees, should i protest?

these are all things that make a much larger MENTAL difference than a PHYSICAL difference, but are well within the rules of their sport.  why should golf be any different in this respect?

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