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Arm Lock Putting Should Be Illegal


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2 minutes ago, blackngold_blood said:

Let’s just say I call it an illegal stroke not an improper technique. 

didn’t peewee herman use an illegal stroke in a movie theater one time?

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2 minutes ago, Chip Strokes said:

didn’t peewee herman use an illegal stroke in a movie theater one time?

Possibly but it sure wasn’t armlocked or anchored!

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Also,  in the article Horschel states:
"I think when you look at what guys are doing now with the arm lock and moving the grips to the side where it's parallel or matches the face and then when you do that up against your arm, I mean, it's—you know that face is dead square and that face doesn't rotate at all," Horschel continuted. "It's just sort of locked in. Guys are doing it too good."
To my knowledge there isn't anything in the rules that states you can't turn your normal putting grip to the side and use the flat part against your lead hand and accomplish the same thing.  You could go a little farther up and use the Superstroke wrist lock grip which basically does what I am describing but locks it in the wrist.  

Didn’t Justin Rose do this with the FlatCat for a period of time?


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I don't think you understood the comments. The point is to NOT restrict club length, but to disallow the improper technique.

Let me ask a different question. Based on your posts you are a golf traditionalist regarding equipment and want to change rules that you consider too penal or giving an advantage. Within these posts there is no changing anyone’s mine and we continue to banter back and forth. What are you hoping to accomplish with these posts? Do you just want to create animosity?

Ultimately the ruling bodies have made decisions and instead of pleading your case here perhaps writing letters and complaining to those ruling bodies might the be a better avenue.
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To me, banning the way something is being done ought to have evidence that the players who do something have an unfair advantage, which is then evidenced in who’s winning tournaments. If you look at the 2021 winner LS so far, the overwhelming majority don’t anchor, therefore, what advantage do those who use this technique really have??? Take away the green reading books if one wants to REALLY find out who can putt the best!

As @cnosilsaid way st the beginning, the definition of an illegal putting stroke doesn’t include anchoring. I think this is just Billy whining as usual......

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To me, banning the way something is being done ought to have evidence that the players who do something have an unfair advantage, which is then evidenced in who’s winning tournaments.


Was there any evidence to ban belly and broomstick anchoring, croquet, Bryson’s sidesaddle putter because of an unfair advantage. They didn’t win every week and all players were free to use them. They ruling bodies seem to use the “it takes the skill out of the game” line to justify even though those approaches take skill to do well. I think it really comes down to appearance and what people think golf should look like.
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Was there any evidence to ban belly and broomstick anchoring, croquet, Bryson’s sidesaddle putter because of an unfair advantage. They didn’t win every week and all players were free to use them. They ruling bodies seem to use the “it takes the skill out of the game” line to justify even though those approaches take skill to do well. I think it really comes down to appearance and what people think golf should look like.

Golf is a weird game. I’d like the data to drive some of these decisions, but a lot of the time it comes down to optics and what a certain group of people think the game should look like. I like to think that old way of doing things is slowly going away.

That being said, this topic seems like a lot of hot air being exchanged without any real information. I see a lot of data that suggests arm locking is far from an issue. I’ve seen nothing, other than people complaining about it, that even remotely suggests there is an issue. Such a small percentage of golfers do it, it’s hard to tell, but if it was that much better I’d like to think that more people would do it.


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2 hours ago, cnosil said:


Let me ask a different question. Based on your posts you are a golf traditionalist regarding equipment and want to change rules that you consider too penal or giving an advantage. Within these posts there is no changing anyone’s mine and we continue to banter back and forth. What are you hoping to accomplish with these posts? Do you just want to create animosity?

Ultimately the ruling bodies have made decisions and instead of pleading your case here perhaps writing letters and complaining to those ruling bodies might the be a better avenue.

I am against a method of putting that is inconsistent with the spirit of the game of golf. Should I just post things of which you agree? Isn't a discussion forum the perfect place for people to "banter back and forth"?

I am not an traditionalist regarding equipment. I am a traditionalist for the purity of the game. I don't want to see golf go down the road of baseball, which as denigrated the major league game with its analytics strategies and rules changes.

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24 minutes ago, LICC said:

I am against a method of putting that is inconsistent with the spirit of the game of golf. Should I just post things of which you agree? Isn't a discussion forum the perfect place for people to "banter back and forth"?

I am not an traditionalist regarding equipment. I am a traditionalist for the purity of the game. I don't want to see golf go down the road of baseball, which as denigrated the major league game with its analytics strategies and rules changes.

What is your definition of the spirit of the game? 

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I am against a method of putting that is inconsistent with the spirit of the game of golf. Should I just post things of which you agree? Isn't a discussion forum the perfect place for people to "banter back and forth"?
I am not an traditionalist regarding equipment. I am a traditionalist for the purity of the game. I don't want to see golf go down the road of baseball, which as denigrated the major league game with its analytics strategies and rules changes.

The game is evolving with the things you seem to dislike and will continue to do so. Spirit and purity makes it sound like you are a traditionalist and want to go back to the way it was. You can post whatever you would like, but you posts seem like you just want an argument. I understand your perspective and what you are saying; however, things evolve; golf is evolving. Tools are enabling people to optimize and learn. Equipment is being optimized.

Armlock has been around for decades but it is suddenly a problem. Not sure how it disagrees with the spirit of the game. In the beginning of the rule book there is a section called “The Spirit of the Game” and it states the following:
Golf is played, for the most part, without the supervision of a referee or umpire. The game relies on the integrity of the individual to show consideration for other players and to abide by the Rules. All players should conduct themselves in a disciplined manner, demonstrating courtesy and sportsmanship at all times, irrespective of how competitive they may be. This is the spirit of the game.

Dont see anything in there that says the game can’t advance and help players play better and get more enjoyment from the game.

Sounds like you just enjoy the game the way you like and not watch the professionals; because that is really a business and not the game of golf that you seek to enjoy.
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1 hour ago, LICC said:

I am against a method of putting that is inconsistent with the spirit of the game of golf. Should I just post things of which you agree? Isn't a discussion forum the perfect place for people to "banter back and forth"?

I am not an traditionalist regarding equipment. I am a traditionalist for the purity of the game. I don't want to see golf go down the road of baseball, which as denigrated the major league game with its analytics strategies and rules changes.

Worse, it could go the way of bowling.... in bowling, between the ball cover technology over the years and allowing two handed rolls (like we used to do when midnight drunk bowling to see how much we can curve the ball).... The two handed roll produces extremely high revs - much more that one handed.... too much spin and power changed the game... a 300 game was relatively rare and they gave you a gold ring for it - from what I understand, it got to be too common and they stopped giving you the ring for your achievement. (someone may come in and correct me here, but that is what I've been told)  IMHO they ruined the game enough that I gave up when I considered taking it up again.  Not all that different from the Technology race in golf, but my example of the two hand roll is similar to the braced putter technique. Close enough to allow it cuz it's still not a be all end all game changer by itself but it's big enough to cause serious ripples.

If part of the expectation in making a golf stroke is to manually control your hand\wrist movement then I think I have to agree that bracing one wrist with the shaft is contrary to the spirit if not the letter of the rule. How about we make it fair and level, you can brace one wrist with the putter shaft, OR you can hold the putter grip completely in your hand(s) and you are permitted to wear an immobilizing wrist brace on one hand/wrist. 😬

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2 hours ago, StrokerAce said:

what a bunch of horse sh*t.... 
 

 

@cnosil - you better call Brad Faxon and tell him that he doesn't know anything about putting or the golf swing ...

2 hours ago, StrokerAce said:

what a bunch of horse sh*t.... 
 

 

Brad Faxon says it perfectly. Arm locking is not a pure golf swing, it is anchoring, it is against the spirit of the game. Kudos to Brad for speaking up.

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2 minutes ago, LICC said:

@cnosil - you better call Brad Faxon and tell him that he doesn't know anything about putting or the golf swing ...

Brad Faxon says it perfectly. Arm locking is not a pure golf swing, it is anchoring, it is against the spirit of the game. Kudos to Brad for speaking up.

Thanks for verifying why your here. Confrontation and complaining!

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24 minutes ago, LICC said:

Arm locking is not a pure golf swing, it is anchoring, it is against the spirit of the game. Kudos to Brad for speaking up.

Since you have set yourself up as the arbiter of logic, and of the spirit of the game, could you define the "spirit of the game" for us?  For me, it means playing honestly and considerately, and playing within the Rules as they are defined.  Fro that standpoint, the armlock is completely within the "spirit of the game".  Obviously we have a different definition, and we'll need to understand YOUR definition to continue this discussion.  

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51 minutes ago, LICC said:

@cnosil - you better call Brad Faxon and tell him that he doesn't know anything about putting or the golf swing ...

Brad Faxon says it perfectly. Arm locking is not a pure golf swing, it is anchoring, it is against the spirit of the game. Kudos to Brad for speaking up.

So,  he says it isn't swinging.  What does swinging really mean?  Does that mean the wrist have to break?  If so,  then we need to stop lots of grips that prevent the wrists from breaking down.  Claw grip is a push, not a stroke.  He mentions Bryson having the putter over 80*,  The putter lie angle isn't over 80* the rules don't say you can hold the club at more than 80*.  he mentions golfs founding fathers not wanting armlock;  they also played stymies and in uncut fields.

Armlock doesn't prevent the club from swinging,  the top of the grip can come off the forearm and the club can rotate.   

Lets talk about the stroke below.  In this grip the player has the grip in his right fingers which are pressed against his arm above his left wrist.  Isn't this anchoring the putter against the left arm?

 

billy-horschel-of-the-united-states-miss

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Billy's looking like a bit of a hypocrite there, eh? Lmao

So,  he says it isn't swinging.  What does swinging really mean?  Does that mean the wrist have to break?  If so,  then we need to stop lots of grips that prevent the wrists from breaking down.  Claw grip is a push, not a stroke.  He mentions Bryson having the putter over 80*,  The putter lie angle isn't over 80* the rules don't say you can hold the club at more than 80*.  he mentions golfs founding fathers not wanting armlock;  they also played stymies and in uncut fields.
Armlock doesn't prevent the club from swinging,  the top of the grip can come off the forearm and the club can rotate.   
Lets talk about the stroke below.  In this grip the player has the grip in his right fingers which are pressed against his arm above his left wrist.  Isn't this anchoring the putter against the left arm?
 
billy-horschel-of-the-united-states-misses-a-putt-on-the-ninth-green-picture-id1309596763?s=2048x2048


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1 hour ago, DaveP043 said:

Since you have set yourself up as the arbiter of logic, and of the spirit of the game, could you define the "spirit of the game" for us?  For me, it means playing honestly and considerately, and playing within the Rules as they are defined.  Fro that standpoint, the armlock is completely within the "spirit of the game".  Obviously we have a different definition, and we'll need to understand YOUR definition to continue this discussion.  

I am referring to the essence of golf- swinging a club to move a ball. I'm not talking about the ethical spirit. 

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On 4/20/2021 at 11:06 AM, blackngold_blood said:

This is getting carried away. There is no proper technique to swing a club or putter. Everybody does things differently in their swing due to any number of physical or mental limitations. 
 

Also as far as armlock being an advantage, it is only an advantage if you can do something NOBODY else can do. Anybody can use the armlock therefore it is not an advantage. I am sure Billy and others have tried armlock and decided on their OWN that the benefits did NOT outweigh the negatives. 
 

Play however you want with whatever equipment you want and abide by the rules for any tourney you enter. It isn’t that hard to understand or figure out. All your doing is coming off as whiny as a multimillionaire complaining that somebody putts better than him. 

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32 minutes ago, cnosil said:

So,  he says it isn't swinging.  What does swinging really mean?  Does that mean the wrist have to break?  If so,  then we need to stop lots of grips that prevent the wrists from breaking down.  Claw grip is a push, not a stroke.  He mentions Bryson having the putter over 80*,  The putter lie angle isn't over 80* the rules don't say you can hold the club at more than 80*.  he mentions golfs founding fathers not wanting armlock;  they also played stymies and in uncut fields.

Armlock doesn't prevent the club from swinging,  the top of the grip can come off the forearm and the club can rotate.   

Lets talk about the stroke below.  In this grip the player has the grip in his right fingers which are pressed against his arm above his left wrist.  Isn't this anchoring the putter against the left arm?

 

billy-horschel-of-the-united-states-miss

I don't see any part of his right hand pressed against his left arm in that picture. There clearly is daylight between. You don't have any support for your difference of opinion with Brad Faxon from this picture.

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