Arm Lock Putting Should Be Illegal

[ole gray]

Putt with what works best for you. I never understood the first rule change involving belly putters.  Every pro/amatuer had the chance to use them. Many tried and could not adapt.  Why penalize those who could adapt and use effectively. Those who couldn't putt better with conventional putters, need to either take putting lessons or put a lid on it. Life is short and fun is good. 


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[LICC]

2 hours ago, blackngold_blood said:

I am completely dumbfounded that this can not be understood. Their words say a free swinging club. The WHOLE club moves during a putt using the armlock style. There is NO fixed point that never moves like during the belly (butt never leaves belly button for example) or broomstick ( butt never leaves chest). 
 

If you believe the rules should be rewritten to make the armlock illegal fine but if you can’t understand that by the rules it isn’t illegal and different than anchored then this topic should just be locked up. We have went past amusing to pointless as nobody is changing their minds. 
 

Edit: Dave beat me to my point. 

The whole putter moves when used as a belly putter too. It is just more stabilized.

Yes, arm locking is currently allowed. Everyone knows that. It shouldn't be.

[GolfSpy_BNG]

22 minutes ago, LICC said:

Yes, arm locking is currently allowed. Everyone knows that. It shouldn't be.

Well now that we have figured that out, enjoy your time here. I have no need to argue opinions about whether it should be illegal or not as it doesn’t really matter to me. Make everything legal for all I care and play however you want to as long as you are within the rules agreed upon at the start of the round. 

[Siamese Moose]

On 4/22/2021 at 2:05 PM, cnosil said:

Kuchar isn’t very upright

I spent some time looking at videos of Kuchar and Bryson. One of the key things I got was that Kuchar said it took him two years to get the fit adjusted properly. The putter I tried certainly wasn't fit to me, and just eyeballing it looks to be the same length as Kuchar's. Being much shorter, it's easy to see why I had to be so upright and Kuchar is not. Plus, the putter I used had a lie angle of 80°. I don't think Kuchar's looks that steep. If I had to switch for some reason, I'd certainly need to find a fitter, and I'm sure I'd end up with something much shorter than the demo I tried. Regardless of the details, the remarkable thing for me was how many putts I made. I can understand the attraction much better now.

Bryson looks pretty upright. From an aesthetic viewpoint, I think Bryson's stroke looks like the most unnatural stroke out there. It's obviously effective, but I think it's ugly.

Finally, in one video from a Golf Channel show, Kuchar was asked if he was nervous when he heard that anchoring was to be disallowed. He said no. He had heard through his sources that anchoring was to be defined as where the butt end of the club does not move, and that the USGA just wanted both ends of the club to be moving. It was unclear if he heard that before or after the ban was announced.

[HarryZ]

Broom, belly, arm lock and dozens of ways to grip the putter: I've used all. Not because it would be more successful or easier, but just to be able to play at all! It's only about the physical disability called The Yips. Putting is reading the line and the pace. No equipment model makes that easier. The whole discussion about past and possible banning rules is only about squeezing yip handicapped competitors out of the game. If a standard is necessary, it should be an equipment rule enabling yippers to play. I can already hear the outcry, if arm lock putters of at least 40 inches would be compulsory! 

[LICC]

On 4/23/2021 at 10:03 AM, cnosil said:

The quality of most of the videos is not clear enough to say. People report that he and others braced their putters. The stroke in that era was primarily a pop stroke and it seems like the forearm could be and is some cases was braced against the leg. Just like you say Bernhard Langer anchors and I am saying Spieth and Horschel anchor. Maybe they do maybe they don’t; we often see what we want to see to support our position .

My point was that bracing a putter or body part against the body is nothing new and has been around since as Faxon said “golfs forefathers” played the game. These players Also improved club design to make them more effective and perform better. In my opinion the call to ban them is strictly due to appearances. The call to ban has nothing to do with the spirit of the game or what golf was like 100 years ago.

I am not saying one is right and one is wrong. I personally think that anchoring and armlock should be allowed. You believe the opposite. There are many people on both sides of the discussion. At this point I don’t see any overwhelming reason to change the rules. In my opinion while it provides some additional stability, the grip isn’t locked in any more than a normal grip can be since it does not inhibit all wrist movement and the end of the putter can be altered based on wrist and hand movement. I also don’t think that the rule can be written clearly enough to cover all possible scenarios.

We can continue to go in circles on the discussion as I doubt that anyone will change their mind on the topic. Unless we have some additional evidence; not opinion, to show why the rules should change this topic has pretty much run its course in my mind.

Xander on arm locking:

And because of that, he added, “I am for banning the armlock putters, but if everyone else is going to use it, and I feel like they have a bigger advantage, I may as well do the same.

“It’s better. It’s easier. It’s more consistent. You can flinch your hand, but you can’t flinch your whole left arm. … It takes the stress of putting out of the game,” 

he added. “I think putting is an art in our game, and when you can lock it into your arm or anchor it to your body, it kind of gets rid of that.”

Edited June 4, 2021 by LICC

[cnosil]

1 hour ago, LICC said:

Xander on arm locking:

And because of that, he added, “I am for banning the armlock putters, but if everyone else is going to use it, and I feel like they have a bigger advantage, I may as well do the same.

“It’s better. It’s easier. It’s more consistent. You can flinch your hand, but you can’t flinch your whole left arm. … It takes the stress of putting out of the game,” 

he added. “I think putting is an art in our game, and when you can lock it into your arm or anchor it to your body, it kind of gets rid of that.”

Ok, so what, no real point, players are for it players are against it.  

[Kenny B]

1 hour ago, LICC said:

Xander on arm locking:

And because of that, he added, “I am for banning the armlock putters, but if everyone else is going to use it, and I feel like they have a bigger advantage, I may as well do the same.

“It’s better. It’s easier. It’s more consistent. You can flinch your hand, but you can’t flinch your whole left arm. … It takes the stress of putting out of the game,” 

he added. “I think putting is an art in our game, and when you can lock it into your arm or anchor it to your body, it kind of gets rid of that.”

Good for Xander.  Everyone is always trying to improve.

[Chip Strokes]

@LICC mike whan read this thread and was like:

[LICC]

26 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Ok, so what, no real point, players are for it players are against it.  

The point is, contrary to what some people here insist, one of the best putters on Tour is saying that arm locking is an inappropriate method that removes a key element of the golf swing from the putting stroke and is akin to anchoring. Like I said ...

[GolfSpy BOS]

1 hour ago, LICC said:

Xander on arm locking:

And because of that, he added, “I am for banning the armlock putters, but if everyone else is going to use it, and I feel like they have a bigger advantage, I may as well do the same.

“It’s better. It’s easier. It’s more consistent. You can flinch your hand, but you can’t flinch your whole left arm. … It takes the stress of putting out of the game,” 

he added. “I think putting is an art in our game, and when you can lock it into your arm or anchor it to your body, it kind of gets rid of that.”

So then why isn't he doing it?  Sorry I don't believe him.  If he thought it was an advantage for him, he would do it too since it's allowed within the rules of golf.  

[GolfSpy_APH]

I will admit I didn't bother running through the pages of this thread as well I can imagine half of the posts, but figured I would chime in with my own thoughts on the armlock putting style. I have tried it, played rounds and practice with it previously and struggled so much with it. I lost all feel for my putting stroke and was horribly inconsistent with speed and line. Maybe with practice I could gain something, but it would take a very low point in my game to get there, which I am not willing to go through. It is so different feeling, so for those who take the time and get good at it great. However like the anchor putting it isn't for everyone and there will always be those who simply stay with the standard method. 

For those who followed my stroke lab putter review, may recall a prereview I did on the Nike Method counter balance putter. This had some cool tech in it that really stabalized the putter with weighting... this is something I am surprised didn't catch on as it had a lot of armlock like features and was a very stable putter... in the end I think players will always look to improve and I hate to say bend the rules, but work with/around them to get an advantage. This is part of sport and how these guys make a living so I don't blame them. I honestly don't know where I stand if it should be banned or not in the future, but from my own experience I didn't see it being a huge advantage for my game. I am no pro by any means, but if it was here to stay I honestly wouldn't be put off.

[LICC]

4 minutes ago, B.Boston said:

So then why isn't he doing it?  Sorry I don't believe him.  If he thought it was an advantage for him, he would do it too since it's allowed within the rules of golf.  

He is doing it. He said that it should be illegal, but as others are using it and getting an advantage, he started using it too.

[StrokerAce]

Xander Schauffele: Ban arm-lock putting (but he’s using it)

DUBLIN, Ohio – World No. 5 Xander Schauffele thinks the arm-lock method of putting should be banned.

Until it is, however, he’s going to give it a go.

Although he ranked ninth on the PGA Tour in Strokes Gained: Putting heading into the Memorial Tournament at Muirfield Village Golf Club, Schauffele used the arm-lock approach for the first time in his career in Thursday’s first round.

Worked just fine as he shot 4-under-par 68 to stand two shots out of the lead set by Collin Morikawa.

“I am for banning the armlock putters, but if everyone else is going to use it and I feel like they have a bigger advantage, I may as well do the same,” said Schauffele, who needed 29 putts. “It’s better, it’s easier. It’s more consistent. My coach and I work a lot, Derek Uyeda, in San Diego, we work a lot on start lines and making sure the ball’s doing what we think it’s doing.

“And the fact that it’s anchored to your arm, you can flinch in your hands, but you can’t flinch your entire left arm, so that’s the process behind that.”

Schauffele is employing the same putter head but the shaft is longer and the grip slightly thicker. He locks the putter to his left arm with his right hand just above his left wrist. Despite the change, he still thinks the method should be outlawed.

“It takes the stress of putting out of the game,” he said. “Putting is so stressful in golf, obviously hitting shots and chipping and all kinds of stuff are difficult, but your putts are what give you the score on the card.

“(Putting has) ruined people’s careers and it’s helped people’s careers. And so I think putting is an art in our game and when you can lock it into your arm or anchor it to your body, it kind of gets rid of that.”

Schauffele has been arm locking for less than a week and is not 100 percent comfortable with the new style. But he’s locked into the new approach.

“My putting coach, my whole team honestly, we’re very against change and I had to see what the craze was about,” he said. “I do feel funny, obviously being a top-10 putter on Tour, switching putters or the style of putting. It’s a distinct advantage. But I know how good it can be and I think you still have to read putts and get the speed down correctly, but I’m in a very similar setup compared to my old putter and I know I can putt with a shorter putter, so I figured if I can get an advantage on the greens, maybe get to first in putting, that would be something special. So I’m giving it a go.

“I just feel like at times I can make more putts and I felt I have nothing to lose and if I can get better at something, then I can.”

[GolfSpy BOS]

4 minutes ago, LICC said:

He is doing it. He said that it should be illegal, but as others are using it and getting an advantage, he started using it too.

I stand corrected then, didn't see that he was using it.  

 

But I still don't believe it's an advantage and needs to banned.  It's a different skill to putt like that.  As others have mentioned, it's not something you just pick up and instantly becoming a pro at putting.

[GolfSpy_SHARK]

1 minute ago, B.Boston said:

I stand corrected then, didn't see that he was using it.  

 

But I still don't believe it's an advantage and needs to banned.  It's a different skill to putt like that.  As others have mentioned, it's not something you just pick up and instantly becoming a pro at putting.

Well no because KEY WORD in that whole sentence is "I feel"....People can feel all they want. I could say "I feel like hitting a longer driver shaft is an advantage" well having a shorter one for me is my advantage. I am sure there are plenty of pros out there that would really struggle with putting that way

This whole thing is apples and bananas. I said it before I say it again its an advantage for some and not for others. This thing just got a second life  thanks @Chip Strokes

[LICC]

5 minutes ago, Lacassem said:

Well no because KEY WORD in that whole sentence is "I feel"....People can feel all they want. I could say "I feel like hitting a longer driver shaft is an advantage" well having a shorter one for me is my advantage. I am sure there are plenty of pros out there that would really struggle with putting that way

This whole thing is apples and bananas. I said it before I say it again its an advantage for some and not for others. This thing just got a second life  thanks @Chip Strokes

Where does he say anything about how he feels? Ok, some illegal or inappropriate  methods may not work for everyone, that doesn’t make them less illegal or inappropriate. His words:

“And the fact that it’s anchored to your arm, you can flinch in your hands, but you can’t flinch your entire left arm, so that’s the process behind that.”

“And so I think putting is an art in our game and when you can lock it into your arm or anchor it to your body, it kind of gets rid of that.”

[GolfSpy_SHARK]

1 minute ago, LICC said:

Where does he say anything about how he feels? Ok, some illegal or inappropriate  methods may not work for everyone, that doesn’t make them less illegal or inappropriate. His words:

“And the fact that it’s anchored to your arm, you can flinch in your hands, but you can’t flinch your entire left arm, so that’s the process behind that.”

“And so I think putting is an art in our game and when you can lock it into your arm or anchor it to your body, it kind of gets rid of that.”

Literally in the quotations you posted my man:

He can feel like its an advantage all day, might work for xander might not, in the end they are going to putt, swing and player whatever works for them. PGA doesnt see this as illegal soooooo what Xander FEELS is mute.

[LICC]

9 minutes ago, Lacassem said:

Literally in the quotations you posted my man:

He can feel like its an advantage all day, might work for xander might not, in the end they are going to putt, swing and player whatever works for them. PGA doesnt see this as illegal soooooo what Xander FEELS is mute.

I thought you meant the feel of the swing. He then went on to specifics as to why arm locking is inappropriate.

This has nothing to do with the PGA. The USGA sets the rules (with the R&A). The USGA has screwed up and changed rules all the time. The question isn't whether arm locking is illegal, it is whether arm locking should be illegal. For the reasons that Xander and others have noted, it should be illegal.

[ole gray]

Hell ya'll are making me want to try an armlock again!  I bought one and thought it would make my putting more consistent and it didn't. In fact it was the opposite. Maybe I needed more time however I could definitely not see any advantage to using one.   I may buy a titty putter too. One of those long models that you swing like a broomstick.  The whole anchoring thing is bull crap IMO.  Allow everyone the opportunity to use or not. I guarantee no one at my club gives a rats arse about anchoring or conventional.  We use whatever strikes our fancy. 

[cnosil]

58 minutes ago, LICC said:

The point is, contrary to what some people here insist, one of the best putters on Tour is saying that arm locking is an inappropriate method that removes a key element of the golf swing from the putting stroke and is akin to anchoring. Like I said ...

Again I don’t care what one of the best putters on tour says.  Some pros say it is fine others say it isn’t.  He is trying it and putted basically the same as he has putted historically.  
I understand you point, you don’t like it and think it should be banned. Quoting professionals, teachers, or other people won’t change my opinion.  Basically I don’t care what you have said…

[LICC]

11 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Again I don’t care what one of the best putters on tour says.  Some pros say it is fine others say it isn’t.  He is trying it and putted basically the same as he has putted historically.  
I understand you point, you don’t like it and think it should be banned. Quoting professionals, teachers, or other people won’t change my opinion.  Basically I don’t care what you have said…

Yes, this breaks down to caring about the purity of the golf swing being a part of the rules, or believing people should be able to hit the ball however they want. 

[cnosil]

19 minutes ago, LICC said:

Yes, this breaks down to caring about the purity of the golf swing being a part of the rules, or believing people should be able to hit the ball however they want. 

Please stop quoting me.   As I have said there are lots of opinions on this and I don’t really care about your thoughts on this topic. 

[Kenny B]

I honestly don't understand Xander's comment.  He's ranked #9 in Strokes Gained Putting.  No one ranked above him uses the armlock putter, so where's the advantage?  He may think there is an advantage, and maybe he can putt better using that stroke.  Let's see what happens.  His opinion isn't any more important that anyone else's.

Any putting stroke used on tour today is freely swung without anchoring to a stationary body part.  It takes skill to swing the putter down the line intended, even using a putter anchored to the forearm.  The forearm doesn't always swing where you want, and it can rotate.  Some can do it; some can't.  It is my opinion that armlock putting is a non-issue.

 

[GolfSpy_SHARK]

1 minute ago, Kenny B said:

I honestly don't understand Xander's comment.  He's ranked #9 in Strokes Gained Putting.  No one ranked above him uses the armlock putter, so where's the advantage?  He may think there is an advantage, and maybe he can putt better using that stroke.  Let's see what happens.  His opinion isn't any more important that anyone else's.

Any putting stroke used on tour today is freely swung without anchoring to a stationary body part.  It takes skill to swing the putter down the line intended, even using a putter anchored to the forearm.  The forearm doesn't always swing where you want, and it can rotate.  Some can do it; some can't.  It is my opinion that armlock putting is a non-issue.

 

Didnt you see my comment!? Opinions dont matter! (I kid, I kid)

Well said as usual by you my friend.

[Chip Strokes]

Xander -0.8 SG putting today. it’s basically cheating!

[DaveP043]

1 hour ago, Chip Strokes said:

Xander -0.8 SG putting today. it’s basically cheating!

Did anyone do better?  Maybe someone NOT using arm lock?  One day of good putting means nothing at all, or else people would think I'm the best putter ever, or maybe the worst ever, depending on the day.

[cnosil]

4 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

Did anyone do better?  Maybe someone NOT using arm lock?  One day of good putting means nothing at all, or else people would think I'm the best putter ever, or maybe the worst ever, depending on the day.

You can see the stats here: https://datagolf.com/live-tournament-stats   Basically toward the bottom. 

[Chip Strokes]

3 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

Did anyone do better?  Maybe someone NOT using arm lock?  One day of good putting means nothing at all, or else people would think I'm the best putter ever, or maybe the worst ever, depending on the day.

are you asking if anyone putted better today?

if that’s the question, then of the top 42 in the field, Xander had the 3rd worst day in terms of SG putting. 

i understand one day doesn’t make someone great or terrible, my comment was tongue in cheek pointed at the outrage of armlock being such a huge advantage 

[LICC]

9 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

Did anyone do better?  Maybe someone NOT using arm lock?  One day of good putting means nothing at all, or else people would think I'm the best putter ever, or maybe the worst ever, depending on the day.

What you don’t know is if he would have putted worse without using the armlock.