Jump to content

Arm Lock Putting Should Be Illegal


Recommended Posts

Me reading through this thread 

Confused GIFs | Tenor

  • Like 3
  • Haha 2

:ping-small: G400 SFT 10. KBS TD 50 Category 3 shaft 

:cobra-small: King Speedzone Black Yellow Fairway 3 wood Tensei AV Blue 65 

:cobra-small: F9 SpeedBack Black Grey Fairway 5 Wood   :Fuji: ATMOS Tour Spec Blue 7 shaft

:taylormade-small: 3 Rescue Hybrid

:mizuno-small: JPX 900 Hot Metal 5 - GW OBAN CT-100 Hard Step S Shafts  

:ping-small:   Glide 2.0 SS Wedges 54 & 58 

:taylormade-small: TP Red White Ardmore Putter

:918457628_PrecisionPro:Precision Pro NX7 range finder 

:cobra-small: Ultralight Cart Bag 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

 

 

Again, define whatever you think you're talking about here, in your own words.  And define a reason that YOUR version of it is more valid than MY version, the version used by the Ruling Bodies, or anyone else's version.  That really is what it comes down to, you're saying "I understand the essence of golf better than you do".  And let's leave Faxon and Couples and the rest out of it, there are obviously equally important players whose opinion is the opposite.

Firmly securing a part of the golf club outside of your grip against any part of your body is against the essence of a golf swing, which is holding a club with your hands and moving it to strike (not push) the ball. You can be a USGA apologist and consider them infallible, but that has not been their history. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, B.Boston said:

Not that anyone really needs any new opinions here..

Since the end of the shaft is free, I don't agree that it is anchoring.  Do I think those that use it feel it gives them an advantage?  Of course, or they wouldn't do it.  

But that's the same reason I look for a pistol grip with a big axe handle at the top.  For me, I fell like it "locks in" my hands and wrist.  It gives me great control over the face of the putter.

Maybe we need to ban all non-round standard size grips while we're at it?  

Why does it matter which part of the club is pressed to the body? Would you be ok pressing the head of the club against your inner foot and kicking the ball?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, LICC said:

Firmly securing a part of the golf club outside of your grip against any part of your body is against the essence of a golf swing, which is holding a club with your hands and moving it to strike (not push) the ball. You can be a USGA apologist and consider them infallible, but that has not been their history. 

Please don't put words into my mouth, I've never claimed that the USGA (or the R&A for that matter) is infallible.  But THEIR version of the "essence of the golf swing" is that the  "player freely swing the entire club."  You want to limit it to the hands, they're allowing a broader version.  To that end, they've decided that the elbow must not be limited, but that the wrist may.  Its not infallibility, its drawing a line, rather arbitrarily.  I trust that they've weighed all of the alternative ways to limit "anchoring", something that Horschel and Faxon and Couples haven't done, and they've decided that this is the best compromise. 

This is NOT a black or white issue, its a shades of gray issue, and they've chosen to write the rule in a way that allows players to retain a significant degree of freedom in choosing how they putt.  As others have said, if they really want to return to the origins of the game, they'd have to outlaw the various claw and pencil grips golfers have devised.  That would go beyond where YOU would draw the line, you're obviously picking a different shade of gray, but you're not advocating for a black and white solution either.

 

  • Like 3

:titelist-small: Irons Titleist AP2 714, KBS Tour S, 3 flat

:callaway-small: Rogue SubZero, GD YS-Six X

:vokey-small: 52, 56, and 60 wedges

:ping-small: B60 G5i putter

Right handed

Reston, Virginia

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, LICC said:

Why does it matter which part of the club is pressed to the body? Would you be ok pressing the head of the club against your inner foot and kicking the ball?

I suppose I would be ok with that provided the grip of the club wasn’t anchored up ones buttock. 🤷‍♂️

  • Haha 2

#COBRACONNECT CHALLENGE 4 ALUMNUS

:callaway-small: Epic Max LS 10.5 - Ventus Blue 6x | :cobra-small: Speedzone 5-wood - Ventus Blue 8s | :titelist-small: TSi3 20* Hybrid - KBS Proto 85s

:cobra-small: KING Forged Tec 5-GW - Nippon Modus 120x | :cobra-small: KING MIM Black 52.12C, 56.10V, 60.04W - Nippon Modus 125 Wedge

:EVNROLL: ER2B | :titelist-small: Pro V1x | :918457628_PrecisionPro: NX9 Slope

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

Please don't put words into my mouth, I've never claimed that the USGA (or the R&A for that matter) is infallible.  But THEIR version of the "essence of the golf swing" is that the  "player freely swing the entire club."  You want to limit it to the hands, they're allowing a broader version.  To that end, they've decided that the elbow must not be limited, but that the wrist may.  Its not infallibility, its drawing a line, rather arbitrarily.  I trust that they've weighed all of the alternative ways to limit "anchoring", something that Horschel and Faxon and Couples haven't done, and they've decided that this is the best compromise. 

This is NOT a black or white issue, its a shades of gray issue, and they've chosen to write the rule in a way that allows players to retain a significant degree of freedom in choosing how they putt.  As others have said, if they really want to return to the origins of the game, they'd have to outlaw the various claw and pencil grips golfers have devised.  That would go beyond where YOU would draw the line, you're obviously picking a different shade of gray, but you're not advocating for a black and white solution either.

 

Why isn’t belly putting “freely swinging the club”? The entire club is still swinging. Why is anchoring that part of the club to that part of your body not ok, but anchoring a different part of the club to a different part of your body is ok?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Nolan220 said:

Me reading through this thread 

Confused GIFs | Tenor

Dr. Brule is all of us right now 🙂

 

  • Love 1
  • Haha 2
  • TaylorMade SIM2 8* Mitsubishi Tensei 1K White 60X
  • TaylorMade SIM2 3 wood Fujilkura Ventus Blue 7-X
  • Mizuno HMB MP20 3i Nippon Modus 3 120S
  • Ben Hogan PTx Combo Nippon Modus 3 120S
  • TaylorMade MG2 TW 56 & 60 Nippon Modus 3 120S
  • Scotty Cameron Phantom X 11.5
  • TaylorMade TP5

 

Western, NY

5.7 Index

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, LICC said:

Why isn’t belly putting “freely swinging the club”? The entire club is still swinging. Why is anchoring that part of the club to that part of your body not ok, but anchoring a different part of the club to a different part of your body is ok?

Perhaps you didn't read all of that, I know it was a lot of words.  They've chosen to draw a line between anchoring a part of the club to a part of the body that doesn't (intentionally) move (torso) and holding a part of the club against a part of the body that DOES generally move (forearm).  They certainly could have drawn that line somewhere else, and I feel certain that they considered the other available options.  And I'd ask you, does your "essence of the swing" not require the player to have both hands on the club, trail hand low, palms generally facing one another?  Why would YOU allow pencil grips, claw grips, lead-hand low grips.  Why have YOU drawn your own particular line, and why is it the "right" line to draw?

  • Like 2

:titelist-small: Irons Titleist AP2 714, KBS Tour S, 3 flat

:callaway-small: Rogue SubZero, GD YS-Six X

:vokey-small: 52, 56, and 60 wedges

:ping-small: B60 G5i putter

Right handed

Reston, Virginia

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why isn’t belly putting “freely swinging the club”? The entire club is still swinging. Why is anchoring that part of the club to that part of your body not ok, but anchoring a different part of the club to a different part of your body is ok?

Belly putting utilizes the end of the grip as a fixed point that the club moves around. It is anchored to that point. I’m arm lock the grip running up the arm does not create a fixed point.

Anchoring in the golf definition is basically a single fixed point. Think of a boat with an anchor.

What single fixed point does the club touch and move around in armlock?
  • Like 2

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :callaway-small: 54-10S   :cleveland-small: 588  58-12
Putter:  :seemore-small: mFGP2

Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330, :taylormade-small:TM-180, Bellum Winmore 787

 

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

Perhaps you didn't read all of that, I know it was a lot of words.  They've chosen to draw a line between anchoring a part of the club to a part of the body that doesn't (intentionally) move (torso) and holding a part of the club against a part of the body that DOES generally move (forearm).  They certainly could have drawn that line somewhere else, and I feel certain that they considered the other available options.  And I'd ask you, does your "essence of the swing" not require the player to have both hands on the club, trail hand low, palms generally facing one another?  Why would YOU allow pencil grips, claw grips, lead-hand low grips.  Why have YOU drawn your own particular line, and why is it the "right" line to draw?

But tell me WHY that line was drawn where it was. Some people putt using more body rotation and keeping their arms still. That's a choice.

Different hand grips don't change the essence of swinging a club and don't entail anchoring a part of the club to a different part of your body.

Please explain why that difference makes a difference. Please don't just give a conclusory statement like you usually do. Or say that it's because that's what the ruling bodies decided. Use as many words as you like. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, LICC said:

But tell me WHY that line was drawn where it was. Some people putt using more body rotation and keeping their arms still. That's a choice.

Different hand grips don't change the essence of swinging a club and don't entail anchoring a part of the club to a different part of your body.

Please explain why that difference makes a difference. Please don't just give a conclusory statement like you usually do. Or say that it's because that's what the ruling bodies decided. Use as many words as you like. 

I don't know, I wasn't in the room, and I've never claimed to know.  As I said at least twice now, they chose to draw a line.  Perhaps, as I suggested, they wanted to limit things as little as possible, allowing the player as much freedom as possible while not specifically anchoring to a non-moving body part.  I'm OK with the line they've drawn.  As others have suggested in a number of threads, if you really want to make your voice heard, why don't you email the USGA or R&A with your opinions and suggestions.   

  • Like 2

:titelist-small: Irons Titleist AP2 714, KBS Tour S, 3 flat

:callaway-small: Rogue SubZero, GD YS-Six X

:vokey-small: 52, 56, and 60 wedges

:ping-small: B60 G5i putter

Right handed

Reston, Virginia

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, cnosil said:


Belly putting utilizes the end of the grip as a fixed point that the club moves around. It is anchored to that point. I’m arm lock the grip running up the arm does not create a fixed point.

Anchoring in the golf definition is basically a single fixed point. Think of a boat with an anchor.

What single fixed point does the club touch and move around in armlock?

The rules don't allow long putters to press their forearm to their body (even though they overlook Langer doing it anyway). The tip of the club is not touching the body in that case. It can still move as your body moves. If anything, the side of the grip is secured through the forearm touching the body. It is not a single fixed point, but a fixed point relative to your body's movement. But that is not allowed as it is "anchoring". 

With arm locking, a point of the club (multiple points) is/are fixed to your left forearm.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The rules don't allow long putters to press their forearm to their body (even though they overlook Langer doing it anyway). The tip of the club is not touching the body in that case. It can still move as your body moves. If anything, the side of the grip is secured through the forearm touching the body. It is not a single fixed point, but a fixed point relative to your body's movement. But that is not allowed as it is "anchoring". 
With arm locking, a point of the club (multiple points) is/are fixed to your left forearm.


Bracing the arm creates a fixed point the putter moves around.

Are You also proposing against a players arms touch their sides when they are setup with your rule modification? Based on what you said above this would also be anchoring.

Could you write the rule as you think it should be written; I’d like to see how you would phrase and define everything.
  • Like 2

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :callaway-small: 54-10S   :cleveland-small: 588  58-12
Putter:  :seemore-small: mFGP2

Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330, :taylormade-small:TM-180, Bellum Winmore 787

 

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, LICC said:

The rules don't allow long putters to press their forearm to their body (even though they overlook Langer doing it anyway). The tip of the club is not touching the body in that case. It can still move as your body moves. If anything, the side of the grip is secured through the forearm touching the body. It is not a single fixed point, but a fixed point relative to your body's movement. But that is not allowed as it is "anchoring". 

With arm locking, a point of the club (multiple points) is/are fixed to your left forearm.

You just answered what everybody is trying to say. The rules state a SINGLE FIXED POINT. It is not the same as belly putting (single point touching belly) or whatever Langer and Scott did. 

  • Like 2

 

 

 

What is in my Bag Boy Revolver

Driver:    PXG Gen2 0811x 10.5* set to small + with a VA Composites Nemesys 55s @ 44.75"

Fairway:  :srixon-small: F85 5 wood with a UST Elements Chrome 7F5 @ 41.5"

Irons: Testing the Titleist T200 irons 4-W2 with Project X LZ 5.5 shaft -1/2" and 1* Up

Wedge: Titleist SM7 56* with Project X LZ 5.0 shaft

Putter:  :scotty-cameron-1: Custom Futura X5 flow neck with a UST Frequency Filtered shaft -1" with a SS wristlock grip

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, cnosil said:

 


Bracing the arm creates a fixed point the putter moves around.

Are You also proposing against a players arms touch their sides when they are setup with your rule modification? Based on what you said above this would also be anchoring.

Could you write the rule as you think it should be written; I’d like to see how you would phrase and define everything.

 

I don't mind arms touching your sides.

I don't believe any part of a golf club should be pressed against any part of your body except your hands, and your hands should not be pressed against any other part of your body during a swing. Simple. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, LICC said:

You can accept denigrating the essence of the game if you want. I don't.

With your posts and all you think is wrong with the game. You are doing the denigrating. 

  • Like 2

:taylormade-small:             SIM 9.5* (GD XC 6X) 

:taylormade-small:             SIM 15* (GD DI 7X) 

:taylormade-small:             3 DHY (GD DI HY8X)

:srixon-small:                    ZX7 4-PW (KBS C Taper S)

:titelist-small:                     Vokey SM8 49 08 F ( KBS 610)

:titelist-small:                     Vokey SM8 55 08 M (KBS 610)

:titelist-small:                     Vokey SM8 59 04 L  (KBS 610)

:scotty-cameron-1:                Special Select SquareBack 2 33"

:titelist-small:                     ProV1

Twitter                     @THEZIPR23

 

"One thing Golf has taught me, is that my muscles have no memory."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, THEZIPR23 said:

With your posts and all you think is wrong with the game. You are doing the denigrating. 

Par for the course for him.  I have him blocked but unfortunately I can see when he takes over a thread by the number of people quoting him (where I can then see his posts).  

  • Like 4
  • Hmmm 1

In my :mizuno-small: BR-D4 Stand Bag

:ping-small: G410 LST 9* VA Nemesys 65X
:ping-small: G410 LST 14.5* Tour AD DI 7X
:titelist-small: 818 H2 20* Tour AD DI 85X
:mizuno-small: MP20 HMB 4 Tour AD 95X
:mizuno-small: JPX 919 Tour 5-PW Oban CT 115 X(-)
:titelist-small: Vokey SM7 50F - 54S - 59D
:EVNROLL: ER1v
:titelist-small: ProV1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't mind arms touching your sides.
I don't believe any part of a golf club should be pressed against any part of your body except your hands, and your hands should not be pressed against any other part of your body during a swing. Simple. 

So we go back to Horshel and Speith having an illegal grip under your rule because their fingers press against their wrists.

You now allow Langer and Scott press their forearms against their body with the broomstick.

I can brace my arm against the side of my body which is currently illegal.

How about disabled golfers with no hands?

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :callaway-small: 54-10S   :cleveland-small: 588  58-12
Putter:  :seemore-small: mFGP2

Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330, :taylormade-small:TM-180, Bellum Winmore 787

 

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Never Wrestle with a Pig. You Both Get Dirty and the Pig Likes It.

  • Like 6
  • Haha 3
  • TaylorMade SIM2 8* Mitsubishi Tensei 1K White 60X
  • TaylorMade SIM2 3 wood Fujilkura Ventus Blue 7-X
  • Mizuno HMB MP20 3i Nippon Modus 3 120S
  • Ben Hogan PTx Combo Nippon Modus 3 120S
  • TaylorMade MG2 TW 56 & 60 Nippon Modus 3 120S
  • Scotty Cameron Phantom X 11.5
  • TaylorMade TP5

 

Western, NY

5.7 Index

Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, cnosil said:


So we go back to Horshel and Speith having an illegal grip under your rule because their fingers press against their wrists.

You now allow Langer and Scott press their forearms against their body with the broomstick.

I can brace my arm against the side of my body which is currently illegal.

How about disabled golfers with no hands?

I don’t see their fingers pressed against their wrists.  I see normal touching from a lead hand low grip. If they separate their hands so much that their top hand presses against their forearm, that should not be allowed. 
 

“How about disabled golfers with no hands?” - If you have to exaggerate your point, you don’t have one. But because I like you, I’ll answer- give exemptions and accommodations for disabled persons. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...