cnosil Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 Might have been another topic on this as it seems to come up in most course management discussion. When looking at modern strokes gained and course management strategies we are advised to hit driver unless you really struggle with the driver or dropping back takes hazards out off play. Counter arguments are that people will give up distance to be in the fairway. Saw this performance based test posted on twitter. Matt generally does a pretty thorough analysis of information so I think it is a good read https://pluggedingolf.com/should-you-always-hit-driver-golf-myths-unplugged/ For the article it seems like the newer strategies are the way to go forward as backing off to 3wood gives up too much distance and people don’t hit the fairway more often as is often stated. Granted there are times and situations not to hit driver but ifYou can hit the driver you need to hit the driver. revkev, PMookie, Kenny B and 6 others 8 1 Quote Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: TS3 15* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: TM-180 Testing: Backups: Milled Collection RSX 2, mFGP2, Futura 5W Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shankster Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 Is it better to be 75 yards in the junk or only 15? GolfSpy_SHARK, TBT and Micah T 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
null Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 Fairways hit is always something amateurs seem to have no idea what is good and what is bad. They have one round where they go 2 for 2 hitting fairways with their 3w and they hit their driver inconsistently for the day and all of a sudden they’re so much more accurate with their 3w my brother in law struggles to break 100. Extremely inconsistent with most clubs in the bag. Yet for some reason he almost never hits driver and hits his 2h off the tee. Because it keeps him in play more. I wish he used arccoss or shotscope so he could see what I see and that his assumption is way off base GolfSpy BOS, GolfSpy_SHARK, RickyBobby_PR and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyBobby_PR Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 I used to play a 4w off the tee for a while to play to a number on shorter par 4s and played pretty well that way. Ive gone back to driver unless there’s trouble like a penalty area where driver would run out to or possibly around my carry number. cnosil and GolfSpy_SHARK 2 Quote Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4 Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120 Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60 Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1 Ball: Titleist Prov1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegan_Golfer_PNW Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 Considering my last round i hit my 2H as far as my driver, I will take the 2H all day for now while working on my driver swing mechanics GolfSpy_SHARK and cnosil 2 Quote Follow my journey to enjoying golf and going low Driver: Epic Max LS Ventus Black 6x 44.5" 3wHL: Rogue ST LS 75x Tensei AV Blue w/ xlink 7w: Apex UW 21* MMT 80S DI: Caley 01X 18* with KBS PGH Stiff plus 95g 4-AW: 0211 with KBS Tour Stiff 2.5* up 3/4" long, Soft stepped, MOI matched Wedges Zipcore Putter: L.A.B. Directed Force 2.1 69*/35" in blue Ball: TBD Shot Tracking: Bag: Vessel VLX 2.0 Grip: Lamkin Sonar + Midsize My Reviews: Caley 01X Driving Iron Review 2023 Max Swing Speed Training and Speed Progress: Current Speed 120 in the MGS Speed Challenge (updated 3/15/23) TAIII #2 Review here: TAIII Impact #2 Putter ) Zipcore Tour Rack 54/full and 58/mid (review here) 0211 2019 Unofficial Review Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GolfSpy_SHARK Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 Driver unless there is major trouble. Rough or fairway doesn’t matter to me. Tree line can be difficult here in the northeast but if I’m behind the trees with driver or 3w either way It’s a tough out. cnosil and GolfSpy BOS 2 Quote Check out my reviews: G710 Irons Official Review I MC Shaft & V Series Putter Official Review 2022 Forged Tec's Official Review I Nitron Push Cart Official Review WITB: Weapons of grass destruction (link to WITB) Traverse is filled with all this shiny metal and tracked by RadSpeed 8* - MotoreX F1 6X SIM 3W - Project X HZRDUS Green U505 Driving Iron 17* - Project X HZRDUS Black SpeedZone 4H - Project X HZRDUS Black 2022 King Forged Tec's 4-PW - KBS $ Tape 130 48 (SM8), 52 & 60 (SM7) - Nippon Modus 125 S ER2VI PROV1X #19 Are you a veteran? Check out the Veterans Golf Association (VGA) Thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBT Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 I’ve been hitting 3W a lot lately to keep the ball in the fairway, but I’m hitting a strong 3W so I’m only giving up 10-15 yards Sent from my iPad using MyGolfSpy Quote XR Driver Matrix Ozik 8m3 Black Tie Shaft King F7 3W UST Mamiya Chrome Elements 7F4 Shaft King F7 5W UST Mamiya Chrome Elements 7F4 Shaft King F7 4 Hybrid Graphite Designs Tour AD-HY 95 Shaft PXG 0211 DC 5-PW Mitsubishi MMT 80 Shafts RTX ZIPCORE 50*,54*,58* UST Mamiya Recoil 95 Shafts Metal X Milled #7 with SuperStroke 2.0 grip MTB Twitter: @timldotson Instagram: timldotson Facebook: TimDotson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveP043 Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 8 minutes ago, TBT said: I’ve been hitting 3W a lot lately to keep the ball in the fairway, but I’m hitting a strong 3W so I’m only giving up 10-15 yards Sent from my iPad using MyGolfSpy How many more fairways are you hitting? If its only one or two more, you're probably giving up strokes. Micah T, cnosil, GolfSpy AFG and 1 other 4 Quote Irons Titleist T200, AMT Red stiff Rogue SubZero, GD YS-Six X T22 54 and 58 wedges 7-wood 5-wood B60 G5i putter Right handed Reston, Virginia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GolfSpy BOS Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 Generally I take Driver. But there are a few considerations. To start, I use a 5-wood so there is definitely a distance gap. Arccos shows my driver as 261 and my 5-wood as 237, a 24 yard gap. However the range is much greater as I can hit my driver further if I figure a few things out consistently. Arccos has the top end range for my driver as 281 vs 253 for the 5 wood, a 28 yard gap, That is the difference between a 8 iron or PW on an approach. For me with those two clubs I hit the green 22% more of the the time with the PW. That's a sort of shocking difference actually. Note to self: Time to clean up the iron play. Here is my off the tee performance for both: First thing to note is that I have about half as many tee shots with the 5-wood, but still a good sample. There are two things that stick out to me immediately: I do have tighter dispersion with the 5-wood being 6 yards tighter. I'm not really sure in the long run this alone would lead to lower scores as we've already discussed the 24-28 yard distance gap I would be leaving myself on average. Dispersion pattern is more left with the 5-wood than driver This is where I can and do use my patterns if I choose to not hit driver. I've played a few holes where I run a higher risk of running out of room on the right or the hole is shaped/sloped in a way that a shot moving from left to right ends up in a significantly less favorable spot than 20-30 yards back in the fairway. But they're aren't many. I'm pretty sure that if it weren't for a lot of the challenges built into #CCC4 that it would even be close to a 2 to 1 ratio. Now, If I'm leaving everything well right or not swinging the driver great... I have a ton of confidence in the 5-wood to be consistent. If that happens I'll use it off the tee, because I know the distance gap between them isn't 24-28 yards if I'm not hitting driver well. But unless there's an obvious reason not too like forced layups or severe left to right slopes and doglegs, the big stick is coming out of the bag most of the time. sirchunksalot, Kenny B, GolfSpy_SHARK and 3 others 6 Quote Epic Max LS 10.5 - Motore X F3 6X | Speedzone 5-wood - Ventus Blue 8S | TSi3 20* Hybrid - KBS Proto 85S SMS Pro 4-PW - Steelfiber i110S | MG3 Raw Black 50.09, 54.11, 58.11 - DG TI S200 ER2B | Pro V1x | NX9 Slope | Jones Trouper R | CaddyLite EZ v8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnosil Posted April 19, 2021 Author Share Posted April 19, 2021 2 hours ago, Shankster said: Is it better to be 75 yards in the junk or only 15? Not all junk is created equal so I'd take the 75 yards because you got 60 more yards of junk. 1 hour ago, rbsiedsc said: Considering my last round i hit my 2H as far as my driver, I will take the 2H all day for now while working on my driver swing mechanics That is a different issue; If you don't hit the driver well you need to work on mechanics and hitting the driver well. For those that hit the driver reasonably well and the hole sets up to hit the driver there is no reason not to hit the driver as there really isn't an advantage to backing off to the next club. Kenny B, BADFanBoi Scotty, sirchunksalot and 3 others 6 Quote Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: TS3 15* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: TM-180 Testing: Backups: Milled Collection RSX 2, mFGP2, Futura 5W Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revkev Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 Matt was a MGS regular when I first started. I have great respect for him.This has become the prevailing wisdom and I’m almost always going driver unless it’s too tight an area that I’m driving.There is this one short par 4 at my club where I should hit driver - no hazards, wide open in front of the green. But every time I hit driver I duck hook the thing into someone’s yard. So I will add bad juju to the list of reasons to back off. So on that one it’s duck hooked 5 wood, GW - something about the way that tee is oriented that it produces lots of hooks Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy GolfSpy BOS, Kenny B, DaveP043 and 2 others 4 1 Quote Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60 Aldila R flex - 42.25 inches SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft Ping G410 7, 9 wood Alta 65 R flex Srixon ZX5 MK II 5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex India 52,56 (60 pending) UST recoil 75's R flex Evon roll ER 5 32 inches It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMart519 Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 35 minutes ago, B.Boston said: Here is my off the tee performance for both: First thing to note is that I have about half as many tee shots with the 5-wood, but still a good sample. There are two things that stick out to me immediately: I do have tighter dispersion with the 5-wood being 6 yards tighter. You have to watch out for conclusions from horizontal spread. I've reviewed shots and "yards from center" does not always detect the center of fairway. It also doesn't allow you to factor in if you were aiming away from trouble for a shot 30 yards right of center just barely in the rough which is a lot better if there is sand or water left. Instead of 13 vs 19 yards of dispersion, I would look at total spread and pick a number of poor shots to eliminate. If you remove 1 widest miss from the charts above, you have a dispersion of 60 yards with your 5W and 100+ yards with your driver (rounding to nearest 10 yards). These numbers are about 15 and 40-50 yards wider than ideal for that distance based on what Scott Fawcett talks about in DECADE for dispersion patterns. Getting 10% more distance with a 60% bigger dispersion spread is likely costing you strokes unless the courses you play are wide open with minimal hazards and trees. It would be easy for 10 balls on the right side of the driver graph to be lost, go OB, or require punch outs unless you strictly aim up the left side of fairway and even into the rough. You need this info the figure out strokes gained (or lost). But all of this data is influenced by the factor in BOLD above. 25 yards less off the tee is 0.2-0.3 strokes lost per drive. 1 tee ball OB is 2 strokes lost, so roughly 7-10 shots with driver vs 5w. In Shot Scope, there are scoring breakdowns by tee club and my 2H (220-250 club) vs driver (250-270) were basically equal. I did learn that my driving iron "safety club" was my worst performing tee club, even worse than clubbing wayyyy down to 6 iron. The takeaway is you and me both need to get better at driver, but in the meantime you can't blindly follow the gospel of pull driver when there is no hazard/OB. Scott Fawcett will occasionally throw out the disclaimer that if you're awful with driver and good with the next club down, the driver strategy may not apply but then always follows it up with "that means you need to work on driver". I've taken the driver advice to heart and look to hit it where possible because you will always hit more greens with your wedges than an 8 iron no matter your level of iron play. As you mentioned, having the awareness to drop back from driver on a day you are not hitting it well is important. Especially on holes with OB/penalty areas as the dispersion increases risk. It is impossible to quantify the effect that confidence will have on the outcome if you feel shaky with driver in the hand. GolfSpy BOS, cnosil, Vegan_Golfer_PNW and 1 other 4 Quote G425 MAX Driver & 5W Baffler Rail-H 3H-4H 699 Pro Utility V2 - 4i APEX CF19 6-AW INDI Wedges 52, 56, 60 EAS 2.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZenGolfer Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 I tried this for a couple months last year and found that Im better with driver because the head is bigger and because I dont hit a 3-wood much straighter than I do my driver. I found that it put more pressure on me to hit my 3-wood perfectly because if I mishit it, I could forget about par on that hole. My driver, on the other hand, I can mishit it a little bit and still get good enough distance that even if I miss the fairway, I would advance the ball far enough that I can at least hit a recovery shot and have a chance at par. That and the huge head of a modern driver instills you with so much confidence, that theres really no reason not to hit it. I really kicked myself last year when I went to Arcadia Bluffs over the 4th of July and didnt pack my driver because I was kind of nervous and not hitting my 3-wood well shattered what little confidence I had. Vegan_Golfer_PNW, cnosil, THEZIPR23 and 2 others 5 Quote "I suppose its better to be a master of 7 than to be vaguely familiar with 14." - Chick Evans Whats in my Sun Mountain 2.5+ stand bag? Woods: Tommy Armour Atomic 10.5* Hybrid: Mizuno MP Fli-Hi 3H Irons: Mizuno T-Zoid True 5, 7 and 9-irons Wedge: Mizuno S18 54* and Top Flite chipper Putter: Mizuno Bettinardi A-02 Ball: Maxfli Tour X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GolfSpy BOS Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 1 hour ago, BMart519 said: You have to watch out for conclusions from horizontal spread. I've reviewed shots and "yards from center" does not always detect the center of fairway. It also doesn't allow you to factor in if you were aiming away from trouble for a shot 30 yards right of center just barely in the rough which is a lot better if there is sand or water left. Instead of 13 vs 19 yards of dispersion, I would look at total spread and pick a number of poor shots to eliminate. If you remove 1 widest miss from the charts above, you have a dispersion of 60 yards with your 5W and 100+ yards with your driver (rounding to nearest 10 yards). These numbers are about 15 and 40-50 yards wider than ideal for that distance based on what Scott Fawcett talks about in DECADE for dispersion patterns. Getting 10% more distance with a 60% bigger dispersion spread is likely costing you strokes unless the courses you play are wide open with minimal hazards and trees. It would be easy for 10 balls on the right side of the driver graph to be lost, go OB, or require punch outs unless you strictly aim up the left side of fairway and even into the rough. You need this info the figure out strokes gained (or lost). But all of this data is influenced by the factor in BOLD above. 25 yards less off the tee is 0.2-0.3 strokes lost per drive. 1 tee ball OB is 2 strokes lost, so roughly 7-10 shots with driver vs 5w. In Shot Scope, there are scoring breakdowns by tee club and my 2H (220-250 club) vs driver (250-270) were basically equal. I did learn that my driving iron "safety club" was my worst performing tee club, even worse than clubbing wayyyy down to 6 iron. The takeaway is you and me both need to get better at driver, but in the meantime you can't blindly follow the gospel of pull driver when there is no hazard/OB. Scott Fawcett will occasionally throw out the disclaimer that if you're awful with driver and good with the next club down, the driver strategy may not apply but then always follows it up with "that means you need to work on driver". I've taken the driver advice to heart and look to hit it where possible because you will always hit more greens with your wedges than an 8 iron no matter your level of iron play. As you mentioned, having the awareness to drop back from driver on a day you are not hitting it well is important. Especially on holes with OB/penalty areas as the dispersion increases risk. It is impossible to quantify the effect that confidence will have on the outcome if you feel shaky with driver in the hand. Good and interesting feedback, thanks. I can say with 110% certainty the far left ball on the driver was a dead pull, and ricocheted off a tree and went clear into the middle of the next fairway over. So that’s an outlier for sure. Also agree that the centerline isn’t great either. One course in Maine I play has a fairway that never really ends. (The two green balls well right of center). driver i typically aim to play up the left side and cut back to the center. With the 5 wood I actually feel comfortable working a draw or fade in. ill have to check out the DECADE stuff. Also put me in the “driver swing needs work” camp! Haha cnosil and sirchunksalot 2 Quote Epic Max LS 10.5 - Motore X F3 6X | Speedzone 5-wood - Ventus Blue 8S | TSi3 20* Hybrid - KBS Proto 85S SMS Pro 4-PW - Steelfiber i110S | MG3 Raw Black 50.09, 54.11, 58.11 - DG TI S200 ER2B | Pro V1x | NX9 Slope | Jones Trouper R | CaddyLite EZ v8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlH Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 Off the deck in the fairway, I stripe my 3 wood. But, if I tee it up on the tee box for a safer shot than my driver, I invariably slice it, duck hook it, top it, or otherwise screw it up. cnosil, Kenny B and sirchunksalot 3 Quote Driver: Rogue ST Max (10.5* set at -1 and neutral) -- Mitsubishi Tensai Blue 55g R shaft Fairway: Rogue ST Max 3 wood (16.5*) and Heaven Wood (20*)-- Tensai Blue 55g R shaft Hybrids: Rogue ST Max 5H (23*)--Tensai Blue 55g R shaft Irons: Apex CF19 6-9, PW, AW -- KBS Tour Graphite TGI 70 shafts R +1/2 inch 3* upright Wedges: Edison 53* and 57* KBS PGI 80 Graphite +1/2 inch 2* upright Putter: L.A.B. DF 2.1 -- BGT Stability shaft Ball: Maxfli TourX...Golf Bag: Pioneer...Shoes: Hyperflex... Glove: Red Rooster Feather My Photography can be seen at Smugmug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlow206 Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 I hit my driver on all par 4s and par 5s, at least at my home course. Any non-iron club off the tee for me is unreliable. Likeliness of topping a fairway wood or hybrid off the tee is very high. And I am not going to hit a 5 iron of the tee on a par 4 or par 5. sirchunksalot, cnosil and Vegan_Golfer_PNW 3 Quote Follow my golf journey to break into the 80s Tester for the Titleist TSi Driver Spring 2020 MGS Tester for the Fujikura Motore X Shaft Updated 07/15/2022 Driver: Rogue St Max LS - Autoflex Fairway Woods: Rogue Max St 3HL and 7 Wood Irons: JPX 921 Hot Metal 5 to AW - Aerotech Steelfiber i95 Stiff parallel tip Wedges: Glide 4.0 54 and 58 Putter: PLD Custom Kushin 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goaliedad30 Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 I've concluded that I'm better off hitting driver whenever I can. There are only a few situations where I drop back to something else (3w, etc) Serious penalty or deep bunker trouble pinches the fairway at driver range, and I can't carry it The ball absolutely has to go right to left (we have a couple of R>L doglegs that driver goes through the fairway if it doesn't move R>L) Driver would carry me onto nasty downhill/sidehill lies. Our 1st and 10th holes are both seriously downhill. Driver doesn't get to the flat bottom, but it goes past the shorter flat area that's around 150 yard from the green. The slopes are severe enough (and have potentially long rough as well) that I truly am better hitting 8i from 155 and flat than PW from the lies you can draw. Kenny B, cnosil, Micah T and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revkev Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 Once again seeing how much different we all are. I like the hit the longest one you are comfortable with and if it’s not driver work on it strategy for sure. Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy cnosil, Kenny B, Vegan_Golfer_PNW and 2 others 5 Quote Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60 Aldila R flex - 42.25 inches SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft Ping G410 7, 9 wood Alta 65 R flex Srixon ZX5 MK II 5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex India 52,56 (60 pending) UST recoil 75's R flex Evon roll ER 5 32 inches It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micah T Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 2 reasons I won’t hit driver: hole won’t hold a right miss, or a sharp dogleg left that can’t be cut.There was a point in my game where the driver was costing me 6 strokes a round due to OB and hazards(16 handicap) and not hitting it drastically reduced my handicap. But short of not being able to keep it on the planet( I used to swing the driver as hard as I could, and it was not a forgiving driver) not hitting driver is just giving up 2-3 shots a round.Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy Kenny B, sirchunksalot, cnosil and 2 others 5 Quote Driver - Cobra LtDxLS 3 Wood - Ping g410 LST 2iron - Titleist U505 Irons - Ping i59 Wedges - Vokey Sm9 Putter - Mizuno Mcraft IV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnosil Posted April 20, 2021 Author Share Posted April 20, 2021 2 reasons I won’t hit driver: hole won’t hold a right miss, or a sharp dogleg left that can’t be cut.Those are perfectly valid reasons. No one is saying always hit the driver. The point is that dropping back a club doesn’t guarantee better results. Micah T and GolfSpy_SHARK 2 Quote Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: TS3 15* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: TM-180 Testing: Backups: Milled Collection RSX 2, mFGP2, Futura 5W Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Middler Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 There’s no general answer, it depends on each hole and each player. I keep detailed stats on every round. On my regular course there’s one short par four with a very narrow fairway and serious trouble on both sides - deep rough uphill lie and lost ball left. I tee off with a 4i. There’s another par 4 with serious trouble right and left at my driver distance and I was hitting the fairway 33% of the time. So now I hit 4i or 2h and though it leaves me a long iron approach, I’m scoring better. But I don’t usually take a 3W over my driver otherwise as a shorter approach is always an advantage IME. Even if I hit a couple more fairways with my 3W, I’d rather have shorter approach/second shots on 14 holes than 20-30 yards further out on 14 holes even if a couple (more) were in the rough. Quote Titleist TSR2 11° HZRDUS Red CB 50 6.0 w Lamkin UTx Midsize Titleist TSR2 16.5º HZRDUS Red 60 CB 6.0 & TSR2 21º HZRDUS Black 4G 70 6.0 w Lamkin UTx Midsize Mizuno JPX923 HMP 4-GW, T22 54.12WS, T22 58.04DC w Lamkin ST+2 Hybrid Midsize Evnroll EV5.3 Maxfli Tour & ProV1 Ping Pioneer - MGI Zip Navigator AT Payntr X 002 LE, Ecco Biom C4, FJ DryJoys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Pro Duffers Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 I only use my driver on par 5's, My good to club off the tee is my 3 wood. I can control it more and it set me up perfectly for my second shots. Quote "First Impressions Really Do Count. Dress To Look The Part You Intend To Play In Life" a. Iron specs Taylor Made: 3 Deg Up - Stiff - 38" b. Driver specs (loft/flex): Cleveland Rogue 10.5 - Even Flow 65 G Stiff c. Dexterity (right or left-handed) Right d. Where You Live - Washington, DC metro area e. Your handicap or average 18 hole score - 85-88 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnosil Posted April 20, 2021 Author Share Posted April 20, 2021 I only use my driver on par 5's, My good to club off the tee is my 3 wood. I can control it more and it set me up perfectly for my second shots. Do you have evidence to show you control it better? What does control it better mean? That was kind of the point of the article, people believe they hit the club better but when measured they don’t. THEZIPR23 1 Quote Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: TS3 15* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: TM-180 Testing: Backups: Milled Collection RSX 2, mFGP2, Futura 5W Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny B Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 15 hours ago, CarlH said: Off the deck in the fairway, I stripe my 3 wood. But, if I tee it up on the tee box for a safer shot than my driver, I invariably slice it, duck hook it, top it, or otherwise screw it up. You and my wife have a lot to talk about!! cnosil 1 Quote “We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny B Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 It's driver on every par 4 and 5 for me, and sometimes on one par 3 if the wind is blowing. The driver is just as accurate off the tee as any other long club in my bag, so there is no reason I should hit anything else unless there is an obstacle to negotiate. Of course, I can mishit my driver, but I do that with other clubs as well; that's not a reason to hit less than driver. Our course has a drivable par 4 (for the big hitters) but not for me; narrow fairway with hazard and bunker all down the right side to, and in front of, the green; rough, uneven lies and OB on the left. I could hit a mid-iron then PW or 9i, but driver gets me to a partial LW distance; my favorite club. I will say if you are young, it's better to swing fast; straighten it out later. As you get older when you likely hit the ball straighter, it's much more difficult to add more speed. revkev 1 Quote “We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revkev Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 I haven’t seen it mentioned yet but it needs to be that there is far more tech in drivers than fairway woods, larger head, more space for tech. Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy Quote Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60 Aldila R flex - 42.25 inches SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft Ping G410 7, 9 wood Alta 65 R flex Srixon ZX5 MK II 5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex India 52,56 (60 pending) UST recoil 75's R flex Evon roll ER 5 32 inches It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyBobby_PR Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 1 hour ago, revkev said: I haven’t seen it mentioned yet but it needs to be that there is far more tech in drivers than fairway woods, larger head, more space for tech. Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy True but I think that is slowly going to change. We are starting to see it with Callaway using AI and jailbreak. I think the fairway woods are the club to watch to see what tech can do. Moveable weights have been around in the for a few years now. Quote Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4 Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120 Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60 Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1 Ball: Titleist Prov1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyD Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 Unless I'm playing in some type of stroke play tournament, I almost always hit driver, unless driver may reach water, or other hazard. Also, I've played so long without a fairway wood, until recently, I would rather choke down, half swing a driver than a full 3W. I pull hook both, and would rather pull hook 30 yards further with a driver. Quote When my wife asked if I wanted to leave Maine and move to where she grew up, I couldn't say no to Pinehurst, NC. I honestly don't spend much money on golf equipment, but I'm constantly reading reviews in case I ever get ready to buy I swing left handed and have been the State of Maine Left Hander's champion since 1997, the last year they held the tournament. I'm currently a 7.1 handicap. Trying to get lower, but my gut gets in the way. WITB Driver: Epic speed 9 degree Irons: 990's S300 Stiff shafts bought when I was in college. (Received a personal use discount, otherwise would've stuck with my Hogan Edge's) 3 Wood: Epic speed 15 degree or PT15 52/56/60 Z Spin wedges (heck of a deal $100 for all 3 at Dick's in 2013) Putter: OG Rossie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GolfSpy AFG Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 As @cnosil alluded to in an earlier post, the main issue in this debate is that (on average) golfers are not appreciably and measurably better and more accurate with the 3 wood than they are driver. Scott Fawcett often references this statistic when addressing this question: the "average" PGA Tour player is only 7% more accurate off the tee with 3 wood over driver, yet the yardage sacrificed can be 30-40 yards...3 clubs at least! And that's PGA Tour players! At the end of the day it's just a bad trade that you shouldn't make unless you find those rare circumstances where the 3 wood takes a hazard out of play that would be in play with driver. (Yes, I've been a DECADE member for just a week and I am absolutely drinking the Kool-Aid...) Maybe an amateur with a poorly fit driver and a well fit 3 wood would disprove that theory, but in that case the answer is to get fit properly into driver and start hitting it. tommc23 and cnosil 2 Quote Driver: TSR2, Ventus Blue 6 S, 65g Stiff FW: TSR2 3w, 15, Ventus Blue 7 S, 70g Stiff Hybrids: Apex Pro 3H, Ventus Blue 8 S, 80g Stiff Stealth DHY 4H, Ventus Blue 8 S, 80g Stiff Irons: SMS 5-6, SMS Pro 7-PW, Aerotech Steelfiber i95 Stiff Wedges: SM9 48 F Grind, 52 F Grind, 56 M Grind, Aerotech Steelfiber i95 Stiff Putter: Sri-Hot 5K Triple Wide, Stroke Lab shaft Ball: Pro V1 Click here for my HONMA TR20 Official Review! Click here for my Arccos Caddie Bundle Official Review! Click here for my Edel SMS & SMS Pro Irons Official Review! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnosil Posted April 23, 2021 Author Share Posted April 23, 2021 (Yes, I've been a DECADE member for just a week and I am absolutely drinking the Kool-Aid...) Good or bad, it and my coaches approach have completely my perspective on how to play the game from the tee. The Decade program has also changed how I watch golf and understanding the total BS that is said by many golf announcers. Hope you enjoy the Kool-aid! GolfSpy AFG 1 Quote Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: TS3 15* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: TM-180 Testing: Backups: Milled Collection RSX 2, mFGP2, Futura 5W Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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