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$40 MILLION FOR TOUR NEEDLE MOVERS


GaDawg

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9 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Well the tour is a popularity thing. People aren’t paying to watch guys that aren’t named DJ, Rahm, Tiger, Phil and about 10-15 others. 


 I used to go to tigers event at concessional and the years he wasn’t there attendance was way down even with some bigger names there. You could walk and talk with a bunch of different groups of middle of the pack players even on the weekend because nobody was following them or sitting around the holes they were playing.  

Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree on what makes the tour fun to watch/follow.  

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Why not grow the game with our youth and underprivileged.  I coach high school golf and I am also a coach for the Jr. PGA  program as well as working at a course in the summer, and I can tell you that a lot of times, the kids are not well received on the course.  Many members at a lot of courses will complain that there are kids on the course because they (members) can't play certain holes due to us having matches etc. on their courses.  I understand that they pay a membership and that they want to play, but I LOVE watching kids go out with each other to play this game that we all love.  There is nothing like watching a group of kids show up each Saturday to go walk the course to practice.  This is how we grow the game.  We as adults should be more patient.  The PGA should spend the money teaching adults that without kids, we wont have a PGA much longer.  Kids should not be made to feel "in the way" when they are trying to practice or compete.  Spend the money on equipment for kids, right and left handed boys and girls clubs, bags, hats, coaches, and balls. 

These top tier guys don't need more money.  The sport needs an injection again.  Much like when Tiger was at his prime.  Golf was fun and exciting so kids wanted to play.  We are starting to lose that again.  Grow the game PGA, invest in the youth and not just the ones that can afford it. 

   Driver:  :callaway-small: Epic Flash Sub Zero Hzdrs Smoke x flex 70g

3 Wood:  :titelist-small: 917 w/ Diamana Whiteboard stiff

5 Wood : :callaway-small: Epic Flash 18* Hzdrs Smoke stiff

4 Hybrid: image.png.cf6ab25979c6727ff31e6cc6f719636c.png TSi3 Hzdrs Smoke X flex

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On 4/20/2021 at 8:35 PM, GaDawg said:

"An individual’s value will be based not just on on-course performance but rather an Impact Score, which will be determined using six metrics: a player’s position on the FedExCup points list; a player’s popularity in Google Search; a player’s Nielsen Brand Exposure rating; a player’s Q Rating (appeal); a player’s MVP Index rating (engagement on social and digital channels); and a player’s Meltwater Mentions (frequency he generates coverage across media platforms)."

Call me a Dud, Ole Fart, etc., but I don't do social media. Never have and never will, that's one of the tings wrong with our country today. I think this new incentive program is a crock of crap. Play the game of golf, whomever shoots the lowest score wins and divide the money based on how the field finishes.

I feel certain others are going to disagree, but to each his own.

I think, more than anything, this money could be spent better in other places...  but it does create some fun incentives for guys who are in the middle of the FedEx rankings to attempt to "game" modern media and go viral... most of the top guys aren't going to be willing to do dumb things for $8 million dollars, but some of the up and coming golfers it would be life changing / career changing... 

Take a guy like Joel Dahmen... He's already pretty popular on Twitter, his caddy Geno has an excellent presence and while he's now won enough to be comfortable, he was also looking for an uncrustable sponsorship on twitter earlier this week... He rolls out the following playbook:

1. Announces if he wins, he will donate half the money to the animal shelters in all the cities he visits

2. During said announcement, he goes full Richard Sherman and answers all questions: "I'm just here to go viral and win 8 million dollars"

3. Whenever he gets to a city, he does local news with the local animal shelter... he goes full ham (if you haven't seen the various "local news pranks" they are fun... local news are always looking to fill time)... tries to teach a kitten to sit, it bites him. Wonderful. (I'm not a comedy write, this part needs some massaging)

4. Forms the "Paws and White Claws" foundation and raises money for local shelters... they now also have incentive to get him trending... 

This creates a story bigger than golf, as it's a guy basically saying "I'm cheating at a game to win $4 million for the puppies, please help me."... This would be a fun way for him to basically mock the system in place while also hopefully cashing a $4 million check... The right guy with the right strategy could easily game these rankings outside the FedEx points. 

I offered Max Homa my services on Twitter for 10%.

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On 4/24/2021 at 12:12 PM, fixyurdivot said:

Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree on what makes the tour fun to watch/follow.  

I don't think we disagree on what makes the tour fun to watch/follow.  I'd much rather have watched Larry Nelson in his prime than Rickie Fowler or for that matter Fred Couples.  Nelson was a far superior player based upon career record.  But very few even recall who he was much less that he won three majors (more the Greg Norman BTW).  The issue isn't us - we are going to watch golf no matter who is playing, we yak at each other and jab at each other about golf all the time - it's one of our passions.  

 

This issue is about a business trying to increase its market base by insuring that it's most popular players are reasonably compensated.  If the PGA tour is willing to invest 40 million one can only imagine how much the group that will split it up is actually worth - financially.  So the issue is about who could potentially watch if players x, y and z were playing more frequently and/or because players x, y and z are out in front as public shills for the sport.

 

I've been to the Valspar most years that I've lived here - enough times in fact that it has had 3 different names when I've attended it.  I've been on all four days of the week and for a practice round.  The Friday round that Tiger played was double the attendance of any weekend round that I saw.  Who is playing and who is in contention matters.  Sadly for the PGA tour the only real statistical needle movers for television have been Jack and Tiger - final rounds with them in the top 10 saw a significant increase in viewership - no one else has ever done that - not Arnie, not Phil, no one.  But that could change or another Jack/Tiger might surface.

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Put me in the old geezers group, this Sept am 60.

Maybe am off subject, but let's be honest, today's  Pro-Golfers are the LEAST accessible professional players.

They walk between holes like royalty not even making eye contact with their adoring peasants. Tiger Woods does NOT sign golf balls, that is the equivalent of Babe Ruth not signing baseballs. I have not been to a tournament in a a couple of years, last one was in San Diego, NOT ONE player said a word to the fans as the walked between the ropes from hole to hole.

I still remember the 87 and 88 Phoenix Open, Fuzzy , Tom Kite, Tom Watson, Hal Sutton would say a simple hello's and thank you' s and acknowledged the people between holes, Fuzzy would crack jokes on the tee. The only people today's stars seem to interact is with the tournament directors and CEO's.  

That's just my two pesos and I could be wrong.

 

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Got to agree with all the this is ridiculous comments!  Rich getting richer, plain and simple.  And I think the PGA misunderstands the impact of social media and promoting those players who would further compel our children to spend more time on social media.  To only then be further bombarded by the social media algorithms that track every single search and like our kids make on social media.  To be bombarded with adds for Cobra golf equipment, because you like something Ricky Fowler posted.  I could go on and on about social media, and how it tracks everything you do....  This will promote expensive equipment, courses, clothing, trips, and the idea that you can't have fun at your local muni with hand me down clubs.  Promote first tee, buy clubs for kids to use at the first tee.

How about you split that 40 million dollars between the top 50 pro's who put on the most free golf clinics for youth in a calendar year.  And you only get credit for it, if it is not related to your sponsors, and their families etc.  That would be $800,000 for each pro in the top 50.  You want to see some pro's who aren't the most popular on the tour begin to interact with the public in person and grow the game in person, There you go.  In person contact.....NOT social media contact, which really is only contact by the pros through social media, which will result in their followers being harassed with adds to buy the equipment of their sponsors....ALL ABOUT AN INCREASED MONEY GRAB FOR THE PGA.

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15 hours ago, stuka44 said:

Got to agree with all the this is ridiculous comments!  Rich getting richer, plain and simple.  And I think the PGA misunderstands the impact of social media and promoting those players who would further compel our children to spend more time on social media.  To only then be further bombarded by the social media algorithms that track every single search and like our kids make on social media.  To be bombarded with adds for Cobra golf equipment, because you like something Ricky Fowler posted.  I could go on and on about social media, and how it tracks everything you do....  This will promote expensive equipment, courses, clothing, trips, and the idea that you can't have fun at your local muni with hand me down clubs.  Promote first tee, buy clubs for kids to use at the first tee.

How about you split that 40 million dollars between the top 50 pro's who put on the most free golf clinics for youth in a calendar year.  And you only get credit for it, if it is not related to your sponsors, and their families etc.  That would be $800,000 for each pro in the top 50.  You want to see some pro's who aren't the most popular on the tour begin to interact with the public in person and grow the game in person, There you go.  In person contact.....NOT social media contact, which really is only contact by the pros through social media, which will result in their followers being harassed with adds to buy the equipment of their sponsors....ALL ABOUT AN INCREASED MONEY GRAB FOR THE PGA.

Of course it's about money - it's a professional sport - beats college sports where they claim to be all about the scholar/athlete - no pretext with professional sports.  It's also how capitalism is supposed to work - if they earn enough some with trickle down to others.  I can't begin to dictate what enough is nor do I have any idea as to how much the tour nets on a season to even have a starting point in making that determination.  The fact that they are willing to pony up 40 million to keep their talent happy tells me it's a lot.  It's much like baseball owners who used to claim that they weren't making a profit to protect the reserve clause or defend collusion and now regularly award 300 million plus life time contracts for their players - 

 

Back at MadMex my experience with PGA tour players, including Tiger, is quite the opposite.  They are generally congenial, the last event that I went to was two years ago and sadly I needed to pass on tickets for the Valspar this year because I have an out of town wedding. At any rate Tiger played in that event and interact with fans even during his round.  This was a Friday.  I'm sure it would be a different story on the back 9 on Sunday but I would well imagine you wouldn't get an autograph from the Babe if you could pop up next to him in the on deck circle with 2 guys on and a full count on the hitter. 🙂

 

Just like any group of 150 young people you are going to find all sorts of on course personalities in the field at any given time.  You will have guys with personal issues that no one knows about.  You will have guys who mask issues or stress by being outgoing, others who appear aloof who are just plain old socially awkward.  For the most part though they are a highly talented athletic group trying to carve out a living, just like us only their top end is far, far higher than most, if not all of us, in regards to earning potential.

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SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft

Ping G410 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Srixon ZX5 MK II  5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex

India 52,56 (60 pending)  UST recoil 75's R flex  

Evon roll ER 5 32 inches

It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD   

 

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38 minutes ago, revkev said:

Back at MadMex my experience with PGA tour players, including Tiger, is quite the opposite.  They are generally congenial, the last event that I went to was two years ago and sadly I needed to pass on tickets for the Valspar this year because I have an out of town wedding. At any rate Tiger played in that event and interact with fans even during his round.  This was a Friday.  I'm sure it would be a different story on the back 9 on Sunday but I would well imagine you wouldn't get an autograph from the Babe if you could pop up next to him in the on deck circle with 2 guys on and a full count on the hitter. 🙂

I’ve had similar experiences at the Pga events I’ve been to as a fan or got to watch as a volunteer. Tiger and several other big names were cordial with fans as the exited green and headed to the next hole. Many in groups that had little to no fans following actually chatted with the fans that were there waiting for then bigger groups to come thru

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On 4/26/2021 at 9:23 PM, MadMex said:

Put me in the old geezers group, this Sept am 60.

Maybe am off subject, but let's be honest, today's  Pro-Golfers are the LEAST accessible professional players.

They walk between holes like royalty not even making eye contact with their adoring peasants. Tiger Woods does NOT sign golf balls, that is the equivalent of Babe Ruth not signing baseballs. I have not been to a tournament in a a couple of years, last one was in San Diego, NOT ONE player said a word to the fans as the walked between the ropes from hole to hole.

I still remember the 87 and 88 Phoenix Open, Fuzzy , Tom Kite, Tom Watson, Hal Sutton would say a simple hello's and thank you' s and acknowledged the people between holes, Fuzzy would crack jokes on the tee. The only people today's stars seem to interact is with the tournament directors and CEO's.  

That's just my two pesos and I could be wrong.

 

I agree with MadMex.  Have attended the Bridgestone(Akron) when it was a regular PGA event, and the LPGA event in Sylvania (Toledo).  No comparison.  Had to buy my daughter a Puma Hat  because Ricky Fowler wouldn't sign any other kind.  Then I went to an LPGA event where I observed player after player exit the green, and by the way they are funneled through an area where regular fans can line both sides.  I watched Brittany Lincicome, and Lydia Ko, and Paula Creamer, and player after player spend 15-20 minutes signing anything, and exiting the ropes to take pictures with my daughters and anyone who wanted one.  Will never pay to attend a  regular PGA event again, I may try Champions, here they are much more approachable.  Just my experience. 

Edited by stuka44
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Woods:  Gigagolf  3W, 2H, 3H

Ball:  Srixon Z-Star XV 

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I think this really depends on how you read into it. On one side it could be seen as a fund to keep the most popular players at the top, but on the other side it could be seen as an incentive for lesser known players to interact more with the fan base and let their personalities show, possibly gaining more fans of their own. I could see this as a big booster for someone like Will Zalatoris, who is on the KFT, but I’m sure will have a lot of new fans by his performance at the Masters and memes about being Happy Gilmore’s caddie

Obsessed with the game

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12 hours ago, stuka44 said:

I may try Champions, here they are much more approachable.

They are.  I attended/volunteered at all but one Boeing Classic from 2005 - 2015.  They and the LPGA players are so much more engaging with fans.  The PGA events I attended were overly crowed (for my taste) and the majority of players pretty aloof.

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I don't support the idea of the PIP, but I certainly understand it.  Losing the top 20 or so players on the PGA Tour to a rival organization would be devastating.  How interested would you be in a PGA Tour without them?  How interested would the average fan be?  What's FedEx going to think?  Other sponsors?  People who shell out for pro-am spots?  This is an existential question for the Tour.  We're hearing things like $30MM guaranteed payouts to players.  If the Saudi Public Investment Fund really is involved in the Super Golf League as people like Alan Shipnuck are surmising (based on the people involved it makes sense), their resources are nearly limitless.  At what point do the DJ's and Speith's and Rory's stop saying no?  Does Rory have a price?

As for this being a social media contest, it's possible, I'm sure there'll be some serious shows of thirst, and there's always the chance of someone surprising sneaking into the list, but by and large it's going to be the top stars.  And I'm sure they'll tweak the algorithm year over year to make sure the "right" players are compensated.

According to Golfweek, here's who would have made the list in 2019:

Quote

Predictably, the player with the best score—the man judged to have added most value to the Tour’s product—was Tiger Woods, who won the Masters that year. Woods was followed by FedEx Cup champion Rory McIlroy, with Brooks Koepka, Phil Mickelson and Rickie Fowler rounding out the top five.

Jordan Spieth, Dustin Johnson, Justin Thomas, Justin Rose and Adam Scott completed the top 10.

Not incredibly surprising.  And basically who the Tour would be looking to lock down.  Maybe not the 2021 Fowler, but the 2019 Fowler had a pretty decent year.

 

Would I rather see more money go to caddies?  HardcoreLooper says yes.

Would I like to see a few bucks go to the First Tee?  I'll be out there coaching all morning tomorrow; come and ask me.  Maybe we could keep more of our really good paid staff instead of being a starter job for folks before they find something that puts more food on their table.

 

So if the PGA Tour needs to take some of the crazy TV rights money and put more of it into the pockets of their biggest stars to keep them from leaving, I'd rather see them take that $40MM and give it to the tournaments to pay appearance fees.  They could use it to attract big names, which would increase their ticket sales and other revenues and let them raise more money for charity.  Stars get paid, charities get more money, weaker tournaments get a boost.  Beats a popularity contest, doesn't it?  If that money isn't going to any of the causes we've all talked about, it could certainly be deployed more efficiently.

 

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3 Wood (13.5*) - :titleist-small: 980F 
4 Wood (18*) - :cobra-small: F8 - Aldila NV Blue 60 ( S )
3 Hybrid (19*) - :taylormade-small: RBZ
4i - PW - :wilson_staff_small: D7 Forged - Recoil 760 ( S )
52* - :cleveland-small: CBX
58* - :cleveland-small: CBX Full Face 2
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6 hours ago, Another Steve said:

PGA must be worried... said they would suspend\permanently expel any member that jumps ship. Could the PGA win the lawsuit? Read that the wording is pretty specific in their membership rules\by-laws..... Do they have the stones to expel a big name?

 

Seems like the perfect game of chicken! Look what Rory in contention yesterday did for the ratings. Would they really kill the geese that lay their golden eggs? 

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On 5/10/2021 at 12:27 AM, Another Steve said:

PGA must be worried... said they would suspend\permanently expel any member that jumps ship. Could the PGA win the lawsuit? Read that the wording is pretty specific in their membership rules\by-laws..... Do they have the stones to expel a big name?

 

The wording may be specific, but what are they going to do if sponsors say that they'll invite whomever they please with sponsors exemptions, even if they're banned from the PGA Tour.

What's in the bag:
Driver - :cobra-small: F8 - Aldila NV Blue 60 ( S )
3 Wood (13.5*) - :titleist-small: 980F 
4 Wood (18*) - :cobra-small: F8 - Aldila NV Blue 60 ( S )
3 Hybrid (19*) - :taylormade-small: RBZ
4i - PW - :wilson_staff_small: D7 Forged - Recoil 760 ( S )
52* - :cleveland-small: CBX
58* - :cleveland-small: CBX Full Face 2
Putter - :ping-small: Craz-e
Bag - :1590477705_SunMountain: 2.5 (Blue)
Ball -  :titleist-small: AVX
Instagram - @hardcorelooper
Twitter - @meovino
Facebook - mike.eovino

 

 

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  • 1 month later...
On 4/20/2021 at 7:35 PM, GaDawg said:

"An individual’s value will be based not just on on-course performance but rather an Impact Score, which will be determined using six metrics: a player’s position on the FedExCup points list; a player’s popularity in Google Search; a player’s Nielsen Brand Exposure rating; a player’s Q Rating (appeal); a player’s MVP Index rating (engagement on social and digital channels); and a player’s Meltwater Mentions (frequency he generates coverage across media platforms)."

Call me a Dud, Ole Fart, etc., but I don't do social media. Never have and never will, that's one of the tings wrong with our country today. I think this new incentive program is a crock of crap. Play the game of golf, whomever shoots the lowest score wins and divide the money based on how the field finishes.

I feel certain others are going to disagree, but to each his own.

I wish the LPGA had this, bring back Paige Spiranac and the dress code she and many other lady golfers wore.

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12 hours ago, Nassau said:

I wish the LPGA had this, bring back Paige Spiranac and the dress code she and many other lady golfers wore.

Paige with her 1 cactus tour win and an unsuccessful attempt at making the lpga 5 years ago isn’t going to do anything. She would lose her tour card after the first year from the number of missed costs and not being high enough on the money list. 
 

Not sure if you have watched the lpga lately but the dress code isn’t all that stuffy. 
 

lastly the last several weeks and prob amg the last couple months the level of golf played has been really good and exciting. They don’t need the nonsense of a paige or other “influencer” but rather need companies to put money up for sponsorships and bigger pay days and for the tv execs to give them more tv time and better time slots. The problem they face is the number of eyes isn’t there for these companies to go in like they do for the pga tour. But this is an issue across all women’s sports. 

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Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

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If you could play a round with any golfer wouldn't you and most men choose Paige, she is also a trick shot pro and a very nice personality.

PGA in last two or so years banned most outfits many LPGAers like wearing, they body shamed the women by doing that, very anti meto.

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14 minutes ago, Nassau said:

If you could play a round with any golfer wouldn't you and most men choose Paige

no. 

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1 hour ago, Nassau said:

If you could play a round with any golfer wouldn't you and most men choose Paige, she is also a trick shot pro and a very nice personality.

PGA in last two or so years banned most outfits many LPGAers like wearing, they body shamed the women by doing that, very anti meto.

Nope she’s not even in my top 10 of female golfers I would want to play with and isn’t even one of the golf influencers I would want to play with.

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She did and still could raise the profile of golf and expand its popularity, really like her trick shots and folksy personality.

Top amateur in University but not so on the tour. I think it would bring in more men and women, make golf more current instead of dull and drab old fuddy duddys.

Paige should be in the next Match set up instead of using NFLers (who cares about them), she would be great with Phil way more people would watch both men and women. Certainly bring in the younger crowd and more sponsors and fashion companies.

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17 minutes ago, Nassau said:

Paige should be in the next Match set up instead of using NFLers (who cares about them), she would be great with Phil way more people would watch both men and women. Certainly bring in the younger crowd and more sponsors and fashion companies.

the average NFL game draws 15 million viewers. you can count on double that for any game where brady or rodgers are playing  

Paige’s youtube videos get about 200k views on average. 

so, about 15-30 million more people care about them, on average. 

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Yes NFL has big audience but she has 3-4 million followers, most guys would rather watch a fox like Paige than an old deflated baller plus young woman like fashion so they would watch Paige.

Can't be first and grow a sport with out trying new innovative thing, plus it needs to promote mens and womans golf together. Phil gets hardcore golfers and the older crowd, Paige the younger crowd.

Poster girl next door.

Paige Spiranac Rips Commentator For What He Said About Her

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1 hour ago, Nassau said:

Yes NFL has big audience but she has 3-4 million followers, most guys would rather watch a fox like Paige than an old deflated baller plus young woman like fashion so they would watch Paige.

Can't be first and grow a sport with out trying new innovative thing, plus it needs to promote mens and womans golf together. Phil gets hardcore golfers and the older crowd, Paige the younger crowd.

Poster girl next door.

Paige Spiranac Rips Commentator For What He Said About Her

Most of her followers are there for her looks and outfits. She would lose half of not more if she posted about her significant other in any kind of way.

you have to be seen on tv to have a chance at growing a sport. Her golf game is nowhere near being competitive on the professional level. There’s golfers who are more skilled and have more college and professional golf careers than she does and they are currently around 100tb or worse on the money list for the lpga this year.  As I said earlier she would be off the tour by the end of the year and she would rarely been seen on tv and even more so on the weekend when most people would likely be watching.

Some of the best female players in the world along with some of the most popular over the last 20 years have barley helped the game grow. Paige has zero chance of impacting the game. 

1 hour ago, Nassau said:

 This will draw viewers not old ballers. Way better swing than Wolf. Hey match them both up on the next Match Play tournament.

https://www.instagram.com/p/55q2riigWk/?utm_source=ig_embed&utm_campaign=embed_video_watch_again

 

 

This has to be the dumbest post you have made on this site.

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Probably about time that this line of the discussion ends. The broader discussion of the impact of PIP is still open.

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