Golf Magazine Top 100 You Can Play 2021

[LICC]

Received my magazine and saw the new ranking. Overall it looks great. Some observations:

Pinehurst 2 ranked 2nd (to Pebble Beach)- I don't see how Pinehurst is ranked this high. Most I know who have played it say it is great but not that great.

Bethpage Black ranked 5th- Justifiable, but I think it would be more justified if they widened the fairways and took out some bunkers, as Tillinghast first designed it. Maybe for the Ryder Cup.

Bethpage Red ranked 66th!- A well-deserved inclusion on the list for an outstanding course that is overshadowed by the Black.

Bandon Trails ranked one ahead of Bandon Dunes- seems this goes either way every year.

Harbour Town ranked 16th- seems like a product of being a Tour stop hypes this one up.

Punta Espada at 18- well-deserved. An incredible experience and great golf holes combined with a beautiful setting.

Streamsong- Red 19th, Blue 27th, Black 39th. I love the Red, think Blue and Black are overrated.

George Wright at 59- Perplexing. Shouldn't be near the top 100.

Torrey Pines at 72, Trump Doral 75- Also overrated.

Atlantic City CC 87 and Ferry Point 95- both underrated, especially Ferry Point.

[jborchel]

Pinehurst #2 is rated so high because raters value things you and I don't put as most important. The whole course is rated high because of who designed it and the table top greens. I've played it too and found it to be a good course but not great.

[ChiefMikeOfficer]

Haven't seen the list yet because for some reason they started delivering to my office, and I haven't been there for a month, but some initial thoughts:

Pinehurst is likely boosted by history and a variety of design factors that many of us (including me) may not notice or appreciate when playing it (especially if playing only a few times). GOLF claims to rate based on experts assessing actual course design and architecture, not using rating categories/weights like others (e.g. some ratings include clubhouse/amenities as a rated category, which would also boost Pinehurst courses, at least at the main site). The claim is that it's subjective, but the focus on experts rating design/architecture makes their methodology better than others (that's described here, which I assume is still accurate and applies to the public list too: https://golf.com/travel/how-golf-ranked-top-100-courses/ ). I haven't played No. 2, but I was not impressed by No. 8 relative to other courses in the area (haven't looked at the current list, but 8 used to show up). 

Bandon is interesting too - Trails is a great course, just much different style from the others. Our caddies said a lot of visitors like Trails the best because it's closer to what they're used to. Coore/Crenshaw seem to hit a lot of the design elements that the expert raters are likely looking for, so I'm not surprised to see it ahead of BD. I personally liked Old Mac the best of the 4, haven't been back to try Sheep Ranch. 

Streamsong... I totally agree about Black. To be fair, it was the first course we played on a January trip, so might not be giving it a fair shot, but it just felt over-hyped. I'd like to go back and try it again to see if I feel differently in round 2. Blue, though -- we loved that track, and I'd put it right up there with Red (if not slightly above on my own list). 

[sixcat]

Pinehurst #2 is phenomenal! If you disagree, we can’t be friends.

These lists always irk me. They are subjective and always revolve around money. I haven’t seen the list, but I’d bet most, if not all, are overpriced and advertised as “bucket list” items worthy of the exorbitant price tag.

I’ve played a ton of $50 courses that are outstanding. Played one a few weeks ago called Longleaf in the Pinehurst area that I’d put up against anything I’ve ever played. Criminally underrated!

Good golf doesn’t need to cost $500. I stopped paying attention to these lists years ago.


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

[Bob Jerabek]

I don’t believe much of what Golf prints. It has turned into one of the biggest self serving magazine there is.  Everything that is touted is a subsidiary of 8AM Golf.  Last year this forum called out Tru Spec as the top rated fitting centers when Golf failed to acknowledge it as a sister company.

There is numerous courses that could be on it.  But was this representative of North America public courses?  I haven’t played them all, so I can’t really tell.  But to each their own.   

[LICC]

19 hours ago, ChiefMikeOfficer said:

Haven't seen the list yet because for some reason they started delivering to my office, and I haven't been there for a month, but some initial thoughts:

Pinehurst is likely boosted by history and a variety of design factors that many of us (including me) may not notice or appreciate when playing it (especially if playing only a few times). GOLF claims to rate based on experts assessing actual course design and architecture, not using rating categories/weights like others (e.g. some ratings include clubhouse/amenities as a rated category, which would also boost Pinehurst courses, at least at the main site). The claim is that it's subjective, but the focus on experts rating design/architecture makes their methodology better than others (that's described here, which I assume is still accurate and applies to the public list too: https://golf.com/travel/how-golf-ranked-top-100-courses/ ). I haven't played No. 2, but I was not impressed by No. 8 relative to other courses in the area (haven't looked at the current list, but 8 used to show up). 

Bandon is interesting too - Trails is a great course, just much different style from the others. Our caddies said a lot of visitors like Trails the best because it's closer to what they're used to. Coore/Crenshaw seem to hit a lot of the design elements that the expert raters are likely looking for, so I'm not surprised to see it ahead of BD. I personally liked Old Mac the best of the 4, haven't been back to try Sheep Ranch. 

Streamsong... I totally agree about Black. To be fair, it was the first course we played on a January trip, so might not be giving it a fair shot, but it just felt over-hyped. I'd like to go back and try it again to see if I feel differently in round 2. Blue, though -- we loved that track, and I'd put it right up there with Red (if not slightly above on my own list). 

Regarding Pinehurst (and some others both on this list and the overall list), I think the design factors that raters notice is one part of it, but another big factor is the marketing hype and groupthink. Courses on television for major championships, and with a decades-long history, get a bias factor beyond just the property, routing, bunkers, greens, etc.

As to Streamsong, I thought the Black was excellent tee to green. Great landforms, good strategy. But there were too many greens that were just over the top and goofy. I thought the Blue had some great holes but too many unmemorable holes with enormously wide fairways, and I thought the bunkering was aesthetically too simple compared to the others.

[Middler]

Course layout and history are obvious factors. I wonder how they factor in course condition? I’ve only played 4 generally accepted bucket list courses and all 4 were in far better condition - tees, fairways, rough, sand, greens & amenities - than any great local course I’ve ever played. I’ve never been on Pebble or Pinehurst #2, so I don’t know what that’s like.

[ChiefMikeOfficer]

5 hours ago, Middler said:

Course layout and history are obvious factors. I wonder how they factor in course condition? I’ve only played 4 generally accepted bucket list courses and all 4 were in far better condition - tees, fairways, rough, sand, greens & amenities - than any great local course I’ve ever played. I’ve never been on Pebble or Pinehurst #2, so I don’t know what that’s like.

The way GOLF does it, condition likely has nothing to do with it. They have fewer than 100 people rating 250+ courses, and there's no way they played all of the courses recently enough to factor it in. Other publications have more raters with specific guidelines, which means recent play is likely, which allows conditions to factor in. 

[ChiefMikeOfficer]

7 hours ago, LICC said:

As to Streamsong, I thought the Black was excellent tee to green. Great landforms, good strategy. But there were too many greens that were just over the top and goofy. I thought the Blue had some great holes but too many unmemorable holes with enormously wide fairways, and I thought the bunkering was aesthetically too simple compared to the others.

I remember people at the resort talking up the Black's greens, touting their design and size, only to stand on one specific green saying "WTF? There's no way this should be part of the green, it should be fringe or a collection area)." 

Still can't agree with Blue that's the course we enjoyed the most, but of course that doesn't mean it's the best course (my best round was Red, so it's not play/scoring bias either). We were in and out of there pretty quickly though, so going back to play them again could change my opinion. 

[LICC]

On 4/24/2021 at 3:35 PM, sixcat said:

Pinehurst #2 is phenomenal! If you disagree, we can’t be friends.

These lists always irk me. They are subjective and always revolve around money. I haven’t seen the list, but I’d bet most, if not all, are overpriced and advertised as “bucket list” items worthy of the exorbitant price tag.

I’ve played a ton of $50 courses that are outstanding. Played one a few weeks ago called Longleaf in the Pinehurst area that I’d put up against anything I’ve ever played. Criminally underrated!

Good golf doesn’t need to cost $500. I stopped paying attention to these lists years ago.


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

I looked through the list again to see any that appear to me to be lower cost, not super-expensive resort type courses. Bethpage Black and Red; Lawsonia; Rustic Canyon (ranked 47- maybe a little high but one of my favorites); George Wright (although I don't see this course, while good, being anywhere near the top 100); RTJ Golf Trail Grand National; and Memorial Park. I may have missed one or two but the high percentage of courses are on the higher cost level.

[sixcat]

1 hour ago, LICC said:

I looked through the list again to see any that appear to me to be lower cost, not super-expensive resort type courses. Bethpage Black and Red; Lawsonia; Rustic Canyon (ranked 47- maybe a little high but one of my favorites); George Wright (although I don't see this course, while good, being anywhere near the top 100); RTJ Golf Trail Grand National; and Memorial Park. I may have missed one or two but the high percentage of courses are on the higher cost level.

Cost doesn't equate to better.  I'd argue, the exorbitant cost of some of these courses are in direct correlation with some of these lists.  The intent is to drive up attention to drive up cost.

For example, I'd put Longleaf up against anything I've played in the Pinehurst area.  I paid $59 on April 3rd.  Can you play a resort course in the Pinehurst area for double that?  Olde Mill is close by where I live.  Primland gets all the praise and attention but Olde Mill is a considerably better golf course for a quarter of the cost. 

Fun fact, the head professional at my home club took his three sons to compete in a junior event in Hilton Head back in February.  He called Harbour Town a few weeks prior to see if they could extend their stay and spend a day playing Harbour Town.  The lady on the phone laughed, said "PGA Professionals don't get preferential treatment here and we don't cater to juniors."  That tells me, Harbour Town may be a place I can play, but it may not be a place I want to play!

[vandyland]

"I haven't played No. 2, but I was not impressed by No. 8 relative to other courses in the area (haven't looked at the current list, but 8 used to show up)." 

@ChiefMikeOfficertotally agree on No. 8, I thought it was pretty unremarkable/unmemorable and kind of a slog on the back. We played No. 4, No. 5, No. 9 and the Cradle (along with Tobacco Road) and would have played any of those courses again over No. 8. Pinehurst No. 5 is a step below in terms of conditioning but was much more fun than No. 8. I will stop there but yeah, I don't have anything nice to say about No. 8. 

That said, I think Pinehurst No. 4 was amazing and would rank it as one of the best courses I have ever played and they were able to do it without incredible land movement, without amazing views (unless you like pine trees) and without making it staggeringly difficult. I think history and prestige plays into it certainly but I think playability for all levels should be a consideration for these courses (though I am not sure it is for Golf Top 100) and No 2 and No 4 are certainly playable for all. Whereas a course like Whistling Straits (with the wind up) or the Ocean Course at Kiawah (with the wind up) would absolutely obliterate about 98% of the golfing public. 

 

Edited May 10, 2021 by vandyland
didn't quote it to Chief Mike Officer as intended

[Jmikecpa]

Liked Pinehurst #2 much more after the last redesign but hands down would play #4 any day I could.  I am shocked that Shadow Creek is that low on the list, yet another course I would fly in to play anytime I could (man I miss being in Vegas every week).  TPC Old White is also one of my favorite tracks along with Teeth of the Dog.

As for Bethpage Black a friend of mine that is a golf writer summed it up best...."Great Tilly track that Rees Jones completely f'ed up"

[LICC]

1 hour ago, Jmikecpa said:

Liked Pinehurst #2 much more after the last redesign but hands down would play #4 any day I could.  I am shocked that Shadow Creek is that low on the list, yet another course I would fly in to play anytime I could (man I miss being in Vegas every week).  TPC Old White is also one of my favorite tracks along with Teeth of the Dog.

As for Bethpage Black a friend of mine that is a golf writer summed it up best...."Great Tilly track that Rees Jones completely f'ed up"

Rees didn't mess up Bethpage Black. He did much more good there than bad. It's still 95% Tilly. The biggest issue with the Black is its setup- they should cut the fairways wider on probably half the holes to open up more angles and options. It is a great course on a wonderful property.

[sixcat]

14 hours ago, LICC said:

Rees didn't mess up Bethpage Black. He did much more good there than bad. It's still 95% Tilly. The biggest issue with the Black is its setup- they should cut the fairways wider on probably half the holes to open up more angles and options. It is a great course on a wonderful property.

^^^ THIS ^^^

[Jmikecpa]

18 hours ago, LICC said:

Rees didn't mess up Bethpage Black. He did much more good there than bad. It's still 95% Tilly. The biggest issue with the Black is its setup- they should cut the fairways wider on probably half the holes to open up more angles and options. It is a great course on a wonderful property.

You should have seen it after the PGA two years ago.  Even the fairways that were normally considered "wide" were tight.  

[LICC]

19 minutes ago, Jmikecpa said:

You should have seen it after the PGA two years ago.  Even the fairways that were normally considered "wide" were tight.  

I do hate the bunkers they added two years ago on the 18th fairway. They ruined the symmetrical look of the hole and they served no purpose. They were meant to make the pros hit driver, but pros never laid up that far back anyway. And pros dislike heavy rough more than sand anyway. I liked widening the fairway the way they did but I hope they take those bunkers out. The first set of bunkers on the left of 13 should also go. All it does is pinch the landing area with the tree on the right. Widen the fairways on 1, 5, 6, 10, 11, 12, 15 (on the left side, to give an angle to the green  that doesn't have to fly the bunkers in the front), and 16, and the course tee to green would be as good as almost any course you would play.

Edited May 11, 2021 by LICC

[Jason at Golf Travel Shop]

I created a golf vacation itinerary based on Pebble Beach gaining top spot.

Here is a link to it. https://golftravel.shop/itinerary/the-pebble-beach-experience/

I'm interested to know your thoughts. We are a new travel network working to promote local golf tour specialists as tourism try's to return post Covid.

Would this type of trip interest anyone?